Wouldn't it be crazy if the vaccine made this situation worse? Like it created a super variant? That would be nuts.

I'm bet you can find someone out there saying that's what's going on.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

All I have to say about the China virus at this point is that it's gotten a bit concerning.

I have second-hand information (co-worker whose spouse works for one of the local hospital systems) that cases on ventilators are up and the outcome is not good.  I was also told that temporary morgues have been ordered in due to people succumbing to the disease.  Of course I have no information on demographics, vaccinated or non-vaccinated, pre-existing conditions, etc., but the numbers of cases that require hospitalization is a bit disturbing.

I have a close friend whose daughter was in the hospital for about a week with the China virus / pneumonia, 4 of those days in ICU on a ventilator.  I don't know her age but I would guess late 30's or perhaps early 40's, and I don't know anything about her past medical history including whether or not she had been vaccinated.  She came through it and was released from the hospital today.

I am not a huge fan of the vaccine, but from what I have seen it may be a good idea to get it if you haven't.  I personally (reluctantly) got the Pfizer version back in February, and it wasn't fun for a few days.  I am in an older demographic, reasonably healthy and an occasional smoker (cigars).

I believe that everyone should have the choice regarding the vaccine and everyone should be able to make their own decisions (mask or not).  I personally avoid wearing a mask unless I absolutely have to (work requirements).  I am 100% against any government mandate to either get the shot or wear a mask.  It should all be an individual choice.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

So, the insomnia is real with this crap. Oh my goodness it sucks. That being said, if it's the worst outcome I take away from having had Covid then I am grateful beyond words. 

Last night I was looking up long term affects on the CDC website and near the end of my reading this came up. 

If you are NOT yet fully vaccinated, prevent long-term complications by protecting yourself and others from COVID-19.

Although media articles have reported that some people with post-COVID conditions say their symptoms improved after being vaccinated, studies are needed to determine the effects of vaccination on post-COVID conditions.


Link

While I have my doubts about a vaccine that has not had near enough testing and trials, my primary reason for not getting it is because I am very sensitive to vaccines in general and don't have pleasant reactions to them. I'm also the person who will take a prescription medication and have the almost unheard of side effects, not the normal ones, or it flat out doesn't work. I'm pretty careful about what I take in for that reason alone. So reading the above statement doesn't really reassure me that anyone knows what this vaccine will do at any point. They tell you to get the vaccine to prevent long term symptoms then turn right around and tell you they don't know the effects the vaccine will have on those conditions. This was updated 12 July 21 so it's not old news. 

We're already seeing that it doesn't do much against the Delta variant, which considering the aggressive nature of that variant compared to the relatively mild previous ones, that makes sense. It does seem to help lessen symptoms but it doesn't seem to be preventing transmission so people need to be careful. This variant is not mild and looks to be affecting anyone of any age or health status. It took three young and healthy CrossFit athletes out of the CF Games over the weekend. These people are fit and healthy way beyond the average person. They will all be fine but this virus is running everyone over. 

Be smart about things.

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Saw an interesting discussion on why the vaccine works initially but then ends up hurting you in the long run. Won't post it here since I can't verify any of the source info but basically comes down to the 2 proteins involved. The 2nd one is handled by the vaccine and kills it but the other one is consumed but then doesn't die like they normally should in 24 hours - 1 week. As you are exposed in the future, you continue to create more and more of these rogue things in your body and too many will kill you.

Hopefully some hot chicks didn't get vaccinated.  It will be up to us to repopulate the Earth.

I saw meme of a guy with a vax free sperm available here shirt, cash only

Saw an interesting discussion on why the vaccine works initially but then ends up hurting you in the long run. Won't post it here since I can't verify any of the source info but basically comes down to the 2 proteins involved. The 2nd one is handled by the vaccine and kills it but the other one is consumed but then doesn't die like they normally should in 24 hours - 1 week. As you are exposed in the future, you continue to create more and more of these rogue things in your body and too many will kill you.

It's interesting since spike proteins are not toxic, so I wonder how these folks came to that conclusion? Was it Byram Bridle or someone else?

It's interesting since spike proteins are not toxic, so I wonder how these folks came to that conclusion? Was it Byram Bridle or someone else?

If the body doesn't know how to get rid of it using the lymphatic system?

Could they build up on organs, veins, arteries..... ? Do we know?

It is the S1 protein that is consumed by the monocyte (it is supposed to do that) but it then creates a non-classical monocyte which does not die like it is supposed to. The monocyte can go anywhere in the body it wants, it can also cross the brain blood barrier. More studies showing everyone with covid has elevated monocytes, when you get the vaccine you get more monocytes, and long term covid people have even higher levels. These monocytes can change your red blood cells or change any other cells. The red blood cells are now sticking together because of the changed shape and the monocytes also change the cell walls to make them catch things instead of being smooth.

It basically said the vaccine works for the S2 protein but doesn't handle both. It makes sense why all the previous trials were initially successful until the animals were exposed again. If the monocytes never die, your body cannot get rid of the mutations like it should and like happens with the S2.

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The viral spike protein for COVID-19 contains two important subunits, S1 and S2. The S1 subunit contains the receptor binding domain (RBD) that recognizes and binds to the human ACE2-receptor predominantly but studies have also shown that like other viruses and similar coronaviruses, COVID-19 can also bind to other receptors. However, the S1 RBD is a region that undergoes frequent mutations which understandably leads to the notion why the virus confers partial/complete resistance against immune mechanisms. The S2 subunit of the spike protein contains a sequence of 7 peptides that is a highly conserved region amongst this virus and many others - making it one of the reasons why its a strong therapeutic target.

Without delving too deep into the nitty-gritty of the complex host/pathogen interactions and the constant battle between our innate/adaptive immune system and viral evolution, the best thing we can do is to ensure we PREVENT getting infected/re-infected to decrease community spread - and this would mean to achieve large vaccination rates at the population-level, wearing masks to minimize spread via salivary/respiratory droplets, and hand-washing.

The longer this pandemic lasts, the easier it will be for the virus to evolve and mutate to evade our natural and synthetic defenses. Also as an FYI, viruses replicate and evolve in the human body in the order of hours and days which is why its imperative to reduce the SPREAD of infection in the community so that it may not proliferate or become more contagious/virulent. And this is simply the result that the concept of vaccinations aim to achieve (and do so quite well if adopted by the population).

It's disheartening to see politics intentionally muddling science and health, but I hope that those who remain apprehensive may overcome whatever is driving their reluctance of vaccinations whether its an understandable fear or just willful ignorance/defiance. If not for yourself, do it for your family.

Politics aside, this should be something that ALL Americans can agree on because I've seen too many families afflicted negatively whether its losing a family member or longterm negative health impacts by what should have been a largely preventable disease.

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C'mon, dude. You should know better than that. Even if that study is faked, there are multiple studies that suggest otherwise. Not at a rate of 90%, but the more common and reliable answer is reduced mortality by 60%. Some of them have been peer reviewed. And, yes, I get that there are other studies that contradict that, but you missed my point.

The point is that no major "neutral" organization is even putting any research into it. And, the drug company that made it is the main company that's pushing back against it, because theylost their patent. Instead, they are actively trying to make a similar drug that does the same thing, but is different enough to patent. What are the odds that that one will treat covid? I bet it's pretty high.

I don't care if it is or isn't effective. I care that policy is once again clearly moving in the direction of profit. The same thing happened with Hydroxychloroquine. Politicized, then shut down for profit, then reluctantly admitting it has some effectiveness as a prophylactic, despite all of the studies that came out against it early on.

Maybe this will help?

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.n.../table-2c/

As I've maintained, IVM might have a role to play in therapeutics and the studies continue to see if that's so, but for now there's not enough evidence to pass it. That's a far cry from "they're ignoring this medical miracle because there's no money to be made on it."

And HCQ was never shown to be of benefit. Study review: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22446-z#Sec3

You're too smart to pull this stuff. I specifically said as a hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic. Quote from your study: "This meta-analysis does not address prophylactic use nor other outcomes besides mortality." I knew to look for that, because I've already looked at the studies that claimed hydroxychloroquine was ineffective, and almost all of them only looked at it as a treatment of last resort, which is obviously ineffective, and never what was claimed by its advocates. There are many studies that strongly suggest reduction in transmission and severity if Hydroxychloroquine is used early. It's useless when people are already seriously sick.

This stuff is politicized, dude. It's very obvious. 

I'm looking into your other study now. That's from the NIH? Iirc, they had only done one study on Ivermectin, and it wasn't very conclusive. Maybe this is it. I'll get back to you when I have a chance to find out more information about it.

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While I'm at it, check out this one:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Or this one:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33427370/

or this one:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

Or this one:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/

I can keep going, but my point, again, is not to say with certainty that ivermectin is a cure-all, but to say it should be being thoroughly reviewed and tested in our major institutions. The data is all over the place, and it somehow always seems to come down on the side of dolla' dolla' bills, ya'll. I have been saying for years that our scientific institutions are broken, and it's never been more obvious. Academia chases the almighty dollar, and the points of emphasis that our major institutions tend to adopt typically make people a LOT of money. My wife is a doctor, and she sees this in her field all the time. Surely you can acknowledge there is a lot of money to be made in the healthcare industry, and business are not operating on philanthropic principles, right? What percentage of policy/meds are produced purely for the sake of the individual? I bet it's slimmer than your chance of dying of Covid.

---

Just another symptom to report.

So, I have developed nosebleeds. I initially chalked it up to taking sinus decongestants when my Covid symptoms were at their worst. I figured they dried me out too much. I have a similar issue maybe once in the middle of winter season when the humidity bottoms out, but I've been using saline spray to keep things moist and that doesn't make a difference. I'll just randomly start to bleed out of my nose and it's not a little bit.

I looked it up and, even though my overall symptoms are not typical of Covid-19, for some people this is our sign. Nosebleeds are not typical either but some of us develop them. The information I read said the sinus congestion symptoms occur with the less troublesome version of the virus as opposed to the one that makes people super sick.

---

While I'm at it, check out this one:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Or this one:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33427370/

or this one:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

Or this one:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/

I can keep going, but my point, again, is not to say with certainty that ivermectin is a cure-all, but to say it should be being thoroughly reviewed and tested in our major institutions. The data is all over the place, and it somehow always seems to come down on the side of dolla' dolla' bills, ya'll. I have been saying for years that our scientific institutions are broken, and it's never been more obvious. Academia chases the almighty dollar, and the points of emphasis that our major institutions tend to adopt typically make people a LOT of money. My wife is a doctor, and she sees this in her field all the time. Surely you can acknowledge there is a lot of money to be made in the healthcare industry, and business are not operating on philanthropic principles, right? What percentage of policy/meds are produced purely for the sake of the individual? I bet it's slimmer than your chance of dying of Covid.

And I'm not saying it's not, but the number of reports you yourself are reporting shows that it's not being ignored or suppressed. I hope that Ivermectin is shown to be what the initial observational reports believe it to be, but the science to prove it is still underway.

---

Maybe this will help?

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.n.../table-2c/

As I've maintained, IVM might have a role to play in therapeutics and the studies continue to see if that's so, but for now there's not enough evidence to pass it. That's a far cry from "they're ignoring this medical miracle because there's no money to be made on it."

And HCQ was never shown to be of benefit. Study review: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22446-z#Sec3

You're too smart to pull this stuff. I specifically said as a hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic. Quote from your study: "This meta-analysis does not address prophylactic use nor other outcomes besides mortality." I knew to look for that, because I've already looked at the studies that claimed hydroxychloroquine was ineffective, and almost all of them only looked at it as a treatment of last resort, which is obviously ineffective, and never what was claimed by its advocates. There are many studies that strongly suggest reduction in transmission and severity if Hydroxychloroquine is used early. It's useless when people are already seriously sick.

This stuff is politicized, dude. It's very obvious. 

I'm looking into your other study now. That's from the NIH? Iirc, they had only done one study on Ivermectin, and it wasn't very conclusive. Maybe this is it. I'll get back to you when I have a chance to find out more information about it.

Oh, so pre-exposure prophylaxis is also disproven. 

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/72/11/e835/5929230

"Pre-exposure prophylaxis with hydroxychloroquine once or twice weekly did not significantly reduce laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 or COVID-19–compatible illness among healthcare workers."

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

To your first point, I didn't say it was being suppressed. I said MOST Ivermectin studies are being done by clinicians in smaller settings with smaller sample sizes, and it wasn't being picked up by our larger institutions that drive policy. That's the whole point. Of course there are Ivermectin studies. Where are the ones that are influencing our body politic?

To your second point, you went from one end to the other. Was that intentional? First of all, keep my primary point in mind, which is namely that our scientific institutions are being politicized, either for power or profit. I can present plenty of evidence that proves my point. Hydroxychloroquine falls into that category. I can show you multiple studies that show that it reduced hospitalizations when immediately prescribed after the showing of first symptoms. And, you, of course, can point to other studies that show no correlation. Since so many of these fail to even reach peer review, we are always going to point to the other as flawed. It's hard to find any study that checks all the boxes, which is exactly how this stuff gets politicized in the first place.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/...21258012v1

In all, I'd rather just drop the Hydroxychloroquine line of debate because it is SO tainted. So tainted, that it's got one of the most egregious examples I've seen of activism in research. The Lancet had to retract a study that was completely made up by a company that completely falsified their data. That's the level some people went to to discredit this drug. The WHO completely shut down any research into hydroxychloroquine after that study was published. It resumed over a month later after it was brought to light the company was fraudulent. That's insane. Whatever happened to that company, btw? Who knows? I know what happened in the medical community, though. Remdesivir became the drug of choice. If you don't think companies and hospitals would accept skewed results to put patients on a 10 dollar drug as opposed to a 3500 dollar drug, you're crazy, especially when you consider that big brother is paying.

Again, don't get too focused on the last bit. This pandemic has been politicized. Focus on that. I know you and the people around you are well meaning folks. I am not trying to paint hospitals or administrators as puppet masters. I know you guys are just doing your best. I am just saying they are cogs in the machine, and I know they look at the bottom dollar. I'm not saying it's malicious. People don't need much incentive to move in a direction. I think companies that stand to profit muddy the water with data, then hospitals take the safest "data," and roll it out as quickly as possible, because they don't have time to follow this stuff. I can see this first hand where my wife works. The administrators are not peeling back onions. They are doing what they're told, and even better if it makes them money.

---

Here's another thing worth reading: https://www.healio.com/news/primary-care...H1fT_Knq-M

---

Just another symptom to report.

So, I have developed nosebleeds. I initially chalked it up to taking sinus decongestants when my Covid symptoms were at their worst. I figured they dried me out too much. I have a similar issue maybe once in the middle of winter season when the humidity bottoms out, but I've been using saline spray to keep things moist and that doesn't make a difference. I'll just randomly start to bleed out of my nose and it's not a little bit.

I looked it up and, even though my overall symptoms are not typical of Covid-19, for some people this is our sign. Nosebleeds are not typical either but some of us develop them. The information I read said the sinus congestion symptoms occur with the less troublesome version of the virus as opposed to the one that makes people super sick.

I get nose bleeds when I have a bad sinus infection, especially when taking sinus meds. They kill my nose. I’ll get them in very dry conditions too. My nose is used to having humidity I guess.

---

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Politicians and bureaucrats are absolutely drunk with the power and influence they believe this virus gives them. I seriously have a hard time believing a doctor would make such an idiotic recommendation purely out of medical concern. 

In a drunken brag at an unmasked cocktail party, 'See those people wearing masks at home? I did that.' (wink)

Parents should wear masks at home to protect young kids, NIH director suggests | Fox News

---

I'm trying to sort some stuff out in my head.  Cases are suddenly up, hospitalizations are suddenly up, yet I feel like we aren't getting the full story.  A couple of cases has me a bit concerned.

1.. My brother-in-law and sister just got back home to Colorado and my brother-in-law tested positive for it (the China virus).  Both are vaccinated and he pretty much has the same symptoms that I had when I got my second shot (fatigue, in and out of bed all day, aches and joint pains, mild fever).  He does not have any breathing issues.  He is/was in good health for his age (65), non-smoker and moderate drinker.  Perhaps the vaccine "lessened" his symptoms?  Meanwhile my sister has no symptoms and is near the same age though just a bit younger.

2.  A friend of mine's daughter was in ICU from last Monday until Thursday.  She moved out of ICU though still in the hospital and took a turn for the worse last night.  They have her in an induced coma and on a ventilator.  Vaccine status is unknown.  I estimate that she is probably mid 30's, is/was in reasonable health and is the mother of 3 young children.  The prognosis doesn't look good.

Why does this virus affect people so differently?  It appears that it's not just the older folks that are vulnerable to the disease.  Why such a drastic change?  Is there more to this disease than we are being told?

Also, why does the MSM ignore the recent report from the House Foreign Affairs Committee regarding the origin of the China virus?

The mainstream media was silent on alarming findings from the House Foreign Affairs Committee Republicans' probe into the possible origins of COVID-19 on Monday, despite one lawmaker calling it the "greatest cover-up in human history."

The bombshell findings made the most detailed case yet that the coronavirus pandemic resulted from a leak from a Wuhan virology lab, but CNN, MSNBC, ABC News, NBC News and CBS News all failed to cover the report.

Something just doesn't make sense to me.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I'm trying to sort some stuff out in my head.  Cases are suddenly up, hospitalizations are suddenly up, yet I feel like we aren't getting the full story.  A couple of cases has me a bit concerned.

1.. My brother-in-law and sister just got back home to Colorado and my brother-in-law tested positive for it (the China virus).  Both are vaccinated and he pretty much has the same symptoms that I had when I got my second shot (fatigue, in and out of bed all day, aches and joint pains, mild fever).  He does not have any breathing issues.  He is/was in good health for his age (65), non-smoker and moderate drinker.  Perhaps the vaccine "lessened" his symptoms?  Meanwhile my sister has no symptoms and is near the same age though just a bit younger.

2.  A friend of mine's daughter was in ICU from last Monday until Thursday.  She moved out of ICU though still in the hospital and took a turn for the worse last night.  They have her in an induced coma and on a ventilator.  Vaccine status is unknown.  I estimate that she is probably mid 30's, is/was in reasonable health and is the mother of 3 young children.  The prognosis doesn't look good.

Why does this virus affect people so differently?  It appears that it's not just the older folks that are vulnerable to the disease.  Why such a drastic change?  Is there more to this disease than we are being told?

Also, why does the MSM ignore the recent report from the House Foreign Affairs Committee regarding the origin of the China virus?

The mainstream media was silent on alarming findings from the House Foreign Affairs Committee Republicans' probe into the possible origins of COVID-19 on Monday, despite one lawmaker calling it the "greatest cover-up in human history."

The bombshell findings made the most detailed case yet that the coronavirus pandemic resulted from a leak from a Wuhan virology lab, but CNN, MSNBC, ABC News, NBC News and CBS News all failed to cover the report.

Something just doesn't make sense to me.

Vaccine is the only thing different now. There was basically no chance of anyone under 40 dying. The vaccine is harming people's cells and lungs. Ventilators mostly don't work, it's not a breathing problem, it's a blood oxygen level issue. They cannot get enough oxygen into their blood. Something to do with hemoglobin being affected.

They also cannot identify the variants, they are using simulations and snippets of the simulated virus to claim there is a variant. If you start your snippet earlier or later, you get a new variant just by moving the selection. They still cannot isolate the virus outside of a simulation. There could have been a variant released from China, a natural mutation, a mutation caused by the vaccine, or people shedding spike proteins and causing it.

It seems that anyone with higher levels of the S1 protein (or whatever it is) are being affected worse. It generally will have to be removed by the liver and when there are too many they can end up in the lungs so you don't get enough oxygen. Shocking news is nicotine seems to help stop and maybe reverse this. I guess they didn't want people to start smoking as they didn't really go further even though they identified smokers as not being affected much.

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Where are we on the updated numbers, FSG?

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Saw there is a new variant in South Korea.

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Where are we on the updated numbers, FSG?

Up over 500 in house with 30 deaths over the weekend, >85% of cases sequenced as Delta, 94% of cases are unvaxxed, 48% are under 50. I heard today that St V's, Mayo, and Baptist are all implementing a mandatory vaccine policy for employees, so I guess they don't buy the stuff p_rush is selling.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Where are we on the updated numbers, FSG?

Up over 500 in house with 30 deaths over the weekend, >85% of cases sequenced as Delta, 94% of cases are unvaxxed, 48% are under 50. I heard today that St V's, Mayo, and Baptist are all implementing a mandatory vaccine policy for employees, so I guess they don't buy the stuff p_rush is selling.

6% casualty rate?

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Up over 500 in house with 30 deaths over the weekend, >85% of cases sequenced as Delta, 94% of cases are unvaxxed, 48% are under 50. I heard today that St V's, Mayo, and Baptist are all implementing a mandatory vaccine policy for employees, so I guess they don't buy the stuff p_rush is selling.

6% casualty rate?

I don't know the math since those aren't the absolute numbers, the mortality numbers were just for the weekend.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato