Yeah - double edged sword.  Chark was called a bust prematurely by the same overly eager bunch and QB Josh Allen decried the worst pick ever by the same crew. 

I'm happy to be patient on Campbell beyond preseason game 2 of his rookie year. But, by all means, please let us know if you're certain he's a bust before the regular season starts while he's 21 years old. 

Also - are you certain his deficiency in turning to the ball is more instinct than technique?  Why?

Both. More instinct IMO, but it’s both. For example one way CBs get better at this by putting a hand on the receiver as long as they have good speed to get a feel for when the ball is coming, particularly the hands.. or if they have a hand on them really good CBs are able to whip the head around and shadow the WR while locating ball. Tyson doesn’t do any of this. We saw him make a good play on the ball in the browns game, but he was never turned around. That’s his downfall, just like in that same game he got turned around and put on a highlight. 

We can hope it gets coached up, but it was his wrap for 3 years at Georgia. Everyone knows this. It’s been the biggest downfall for him forever, and against pro WR he better figure this out quick or he will be on “you got mossed” weekly. Because right now he’s 2/2.

For the record, I sure hope it does work out. He’s got the speed and size.

Oh...

So are we backpedaling from INSTINCTS!!  to INSTINCTS/COACHABILITY?? 

We'll see, I guess.  Seems like a very coachable element of technique to me vs an instinctive trait that can't be unlearned.

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Call it overreaction, but it was literally all over his scouting report that he can’t find the ball in the air. That’s all he did in college. It’s coming to fruition on the field. So he’s just going to magically find the ball in “real” games? Those 1 on 1 battles transition to real games, he’s getting exposed. Got to turn your damn head. Hoping he magically learns instincts.

Or just not-so-magically gets coached up over the next year or two.

So what? He was playing on a SEC team for how many years? Were his DB coaches that bad that he never knew how to look for the ball? It's not like he was on a small team with bad coaching.

He reminds me a UF pick that also has issues on the team. He has all the skills but again if you can't look for the ball you probably are missing something upstairs. He hasn't learned to read WRs head movements or figured out when a QB would throw the ball.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

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https://twitter.com/PriscoCBS/status/142...14082?s=20

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No Fun

Both. More instinct IMO, but it’s both. For example one way CBs get better at this by putting a hand on the receiver as long as they have good speed to get a feel for when the ball is coming, particularly the hands.. or if they have a hand on them really good CBs are able to whip the head around and shadow the WR while locating ball. Tyson doesn’t do any of this. We saw him make a good play on the ball in the browns game, but he was never turned around. That’s his downfall, just like in that same game he got turned around and put on a highlight. 

We can hope it gets coached up, but it was his wrap for 3 years at Georgia. Everyone knows this. It’s been the biggest downfall for him forever, and against pro WR he better figure this out quick or he will be on “you got mossed” weekly. Because right now he’s 2/2.

For the record, I sure hope it does work out. He’s got the speed and size.

Oh...

So are we backpedaling from INSTINCTS!!  to INSTINCTS/COACHABILITY?? 

We'll see, I guess.  Seems like a very coachable element of technique to me vs an instinctive trait that can't be unlearned.

It seems like that is a very coachable thing, only it persisted long enough to be on his scouting reports, long enough to push him out of the first round, and it still hasn't been corrected after two preseason games.

I can understand the "backpedal" you perceive.

Because if this has been an issue identified in scouting reports, and it has yet to be fixed, fans will wonder why.

The scouts had all of the college film on him.  The coaches film every practice and every game.  If there were technique errors to be found, why weren't they corrected by now?  Yes, CBs sometimes need developing like young players at every position.

But that's an unusual CB flaw to not have been corrected over all this time, don't you think?

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https://twitter.com/PriscoCBS/status/142...14082?s=20

Not sure Baalke has a great track record of drafting WRs.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Let's get this overwith....

1.  Coming into the season...in fact, as recently as last week, I thought defensive back could be a potential area of strength for us.  Tonight's performance gives me considerable doubt as to the veracity of that sentiment.  The team surrendered two deep TD passes, and at least one of them involved anther misplay of the ball by Campbell.  Griffin didn't look any better in that second TD.  Even Sidney Jones, who gave us some good play last year, had his moments where he looked silly.  This game is a reminder that the secondary, while completely revamped, was still part of a 1-15 team, and it will take time to come together.

2.  Understanding this is preseason and that teams hold things back and really don't game plan, watching the offense tonight was painful.  While I know Trevor Lawrence is going to have his rookie struggles, I was hoping performances like these would be minimized.  Like the secondary, this offense is part of a 1-15 season last year and the team will struggle.  The offense seems horribly disjointed.  We can't run the ball.  We don't try to run the ball.  (Egads!  I'm channeling Jim Mora!)  The word of the day:  lethargic!

3.  Getting back to the defensive performance, many fans would wonder why the defense did not blitz more under Wash.  When Ramsey and Bouye were in the secondary and Calais and Ngakoue were rushing the passer, you could argue there wasn't much need.  Whole I've noticed that some rushers were coming free, scheme changes and exotic blitzes do not mean your defense will be effective.  Though they feed off each other, the defense needs good CB play to get home on blitzes.

4.  The offensive line was, once again, offensive...and not in a good way.   Way too many hits on Trevor Lawrence.  Several instances where the line was overpowered, which was a continuation of last week.  I understand pass blocking requires offensive linemen to be passive, but that seems to happen quite a bit.  Are guys not using leverage?  What about the strength?  Once again, Jawaan Taylor had a catastrophic failure on that late 2nd quarter 3rd down sack.  He wasn't alone, as Bartch's guy got the sack on that play, but watch Jawaan Taylor on that play.  Once again, scary scary bad against a backup.

5.  Nice to see Taven Bryan play like he could actually find the ball on that screen.

6.  Since 2017, Josh Lambo has been one of our most consistent performers.  But so far this preseason, he has missed 2/3 FGs.  What gives

7.  Rookie Watch:

    A.  Trevor Lawrence-As I said above, took way too many hits.  For the first time, I saw him force a pass or two into double coverage on ill advised throws.  Also way off on a pass to Shenault in the end zone.  There were some good signs.  There were a couple of plays where he managed to step up nicely in the pocket.  He had a couple of decent throws.  But he looks like a rookie right now.  It seems like Minshew is making faster decisions....as if his internal clock is faster. Of course, that is to be expected considering e's going into his 3rd year while TL isn't.  Lawrence is a better prospect and should be a starter, but there are signs of rookie-itis.

     B.  Travis Etienne-had the one catch for three yards and hurt his foot.  This is NOT what I wanted to see.  Hopefully this is not a serious injury...nor par for the course for him.

     C.  Tyson Campbell-see above.  I have the feeling he will be isolated and targeted by opposing offensive coordinators and QBs all season long.  There's no point in covering a guy if you can't make a play on the ball. 


     D.  Walker Little-perhaps the one pleasant surprise of the night for me considering he got the start at LT.  Seemed to hold up decently, though there was that one pass rush were he got pushed back into TL.  I'm sure he has more work to do with his hands, but his was the one area of the OL I felt better about after this game.

     E.  Andre Cisco-Played but did not stand out to me.

     F.  Jay Tufele-got a good pass rush but a bad penalty.

     G.  Jordan Smith-Did not stand out to me

     H.  Luke Farrell-Had a good reception early in the game.

     I.  Jalen Camp-  Was targeted in the 3rd quarter.

8.  Back to the O-Line....inserting Walker Little in at LT is a possible way to improve it.  But that alone does not fix the OL.  Benching Jawaan Taylor is another.  I don't know why Cam Robinson did not play, but I hope he is placed in at RT.  At this point, I'd rather see him struggle to learn the position early and get better than to see Jawaan Taylor continue  as he has been.

9.  In Ben Stein's (Ferris Beuller's teacher) voice..  "Chaisson?  Chaisson...?  Chaisson...?

10.  Guys who did decently but will probably be cut:  Cotton, Cotrell, Ozigbo.

11.  Bottom line-This reminds me too much of Dallas in 1989.  Absolutely listless.  Seemingly lost in many ways.  I am trying not to overreact to preseason.  Honestly I am.  But this team has a long way to go.

     .

1. Totally agree. I was not a fan of the Tyson Campbell pick from the beginning. I liked his Georgia teammate Eric Stokes a lot more, but he was taken 4 picks ahead of us in round 2. One thing is becoming very clear though, Campbell is not very good in man to man coverage. He just loses track of the ball, way too often. This is made even worse by the fact that we are stacking the line in order to stop the run, so our secondary is basically the CB's which are left out on islands. There just needs to be more balance, because of right now, we are working so hard to fix the run defense that it's hurting the pass defense. 

2. Bevell called a terrible game. Our O-Line was once again beaten badly. When this happens with a rookie QB, you have to find ways to build his confidence. Normally, coaches would do this by designing quick screens and crossing patterns where the ball comes out right away and the damage to the QB is very minimal. He gets some easy completions and his confidence builds. Instead, Bevell had Lawrence dropping back on almost every passing play and he was getting hit continuously. I don't get it. I don't wanna see Lawrence get shell shocked by all the punishment he is taking. We need a quicker, more up tempo offense. If we keep dropping him back and allowing him to get clobbered, we're gonna ruin a franchise QB. 

3. Totally agree. In order to stack the line and blitz, you need really good press cover corners. Marlon Humphrey might be one of the best examples I could use. We have no Marlon Humphrey type corners right now. This defense is gonna need tinkering and it's gonna be ugly at some points. We'll just have to see how it plays out. I know we have 2 first round edge pass rushers, but to me, Duane Smoot looks like the most consistent pass rusher we have. He needs to get significant playing time once the season starts. 

4. What can I say about the O-Line that I haven't already said? Taylor needs to go. Bartch looked very bad in relief of Norwell and Little was getting trucked most of the night. We kept our O-Line coach from a 1-15 team and brought back the entire starting O-Line and then proceeded to draft an OT that hadn't played a full football game in two years. How could any of this go wrong? It was a recipe for disaster. 

5. He's still not making the final roster. 

6. I'm hoping Lambo is just shaking off the rust and he'll be fine by the opening game. It is odd seeing him miss kicks though.

7a. Lawrence didn't look bad, he just didn't look very comfortable. He was holding the ball longer than I'd like and at times, the game just looked faster than he could handle. I'm gonna chuck this up to rookie nerves though. I just hope this O-Line doesn't get him hurt. 

7b. I hope Etienne is ok. One thing that was said during the game that really annoyed me was during an interview with Meyer he said when they drafted Etienne, they didn't know how they were gonna use him. What? How do you spend a first round pick on a guy with no plan how you want to use him? Does Meyer know what he's doing? This quote sounds foolish. 

7c. Campbell has no business playing in a man to man scheme. He is a zone CB that needs help from the Safeties. He can't track a ball to save his life. 

7d. You and I saw two different things. I saw Little getting walked backwards on several occasions like a show pony. I had positive thoughts on him after last week, but now, I don't know. 

7e. Agreed.

7f. Agreed. 

7g. This is starting to look like a wasted draft pick. 

7h. Agreed. 

7i. Yep. 

8. Personally, I'd keep Robinson at LT and start Walker at RT. Anything is an improvement over Taylor, but I don't think Little is ready for the blindside yet. 

9. Smoot needs to start opposite Allen. 

10. Yep. That bad drop in the endzone by Cotton ruined an otherwise good night. 

11. Good analysis Bullseye. I totally agree. I'd also like to add that for a 2nd week in a row, our best looking QB was Beathard. He needs to be the primary backup.

1.  Regarding Campbell, I don't think I recall a CB drafted so highly that is in position to play the ball but can't so consistently.  Dallas drafted a CB from Baylor back in the late 80s named Ron Francis, and he was constantly torched, but size and speed limitations did him in.  But Campbell seems to have all of the size, length and speed you'd want in a CB.  Why isn't he making plays that should be routine for him?

2.  The running game hasn't come close to being functional, much less effective.  You mentioned shell shock by Lawrence.  There were times last night where he seemed almost desperate to get something going, based on some of the throws he attempted.  Again, this is just the second preseason game.  Whether this is preseason or not, we have to do better in run and pass blocking.  

3.  I cringed reading Smoot looks like the most consistent pass rusher we have.  That said, at this point I have more faith in the defense than the offense based upon what we've seen in the preseason.  I see the potential for the occasional big play out of the defense.  I see the potential to at least slow the run.

5.  No, Bryan is NOT likely to make this final roster.  I've already seen more favorable from Tufele.

6.  I shudder to think of our prospects if we have to go through a bunch of kickers this year like we did last year.

7a.  I'm beginning to wonder if him holding the ball longer has to do with receivers not getting fast separation.  TL hasn't looked very comfortable, and I haven't been comfortable watching him for far too much of the preseason.  He's getting hit way way way too much.

7b.  I missed the Urban Meyer quote about how he didn't know how he was going to use him.  But the primary concern I had about the pick wasn't the talent level of the pick, but how he was going to be utilized.  The thought UM is just winging it when it comes to utilizing Etienne is worrisome.  But the foot injury on seemingly a mundane play is more so.  Foot injuries can be tricky.  I hope he is okay...because if he is hindered by that injury, what little explosiveness our offense has will be diminished, which will only make things more difficult for TL.

7c.  I am beginning to think he should be held to underneath coverage.

7d.  I say Little did decently because he didn't give up any sacks.  But yes, he was pushed back into TL too often.  I wonder how much of that is hand use, and how much of that is other deficiencies.  I still think he's better at this point than Taylor at this point.

8.  You may be right about that.  I expected Little's transition to the pro game to be rougher than normal due to his time away/rust.  Perhaps I am hoping against hope that isn't the case, and he can upgrade LT immediately.  Clearly though, Little could stand improvement.  But I'm more concerned about Taylor...and I still think Bartch is a liability.

11.  Thing is, you have to be careful about those 3rd team QB numbers in preseason.  That's usually fool's gold.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I said it all offseason. Jags need a better offensivve line. Until the coaches relize that,admit,and do all they can to make  the 0-line stronger,and better no qb will ne susscful in jacksonville not even tom brady,rogers,no qb can succed behind the worst offenssive line in nfl history. thats what the 0-line looks like to me.   Jags have the talent on offensse, but qb has no protection.    Give jags a better O-line, and people would be surpised by how much better team would be.   

why a qb is imporent he can't be susscful if you have no protection for him from your 0-line.

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

The splitting of QB reps better be over after tonight. Trevor needs all the 1st team reps going forward (should of had them from the start).

LT, LG and C were all backups and it showed. Little isn't ready to take over at LT. He should be in the future, but the left side of the line was a huge weak link tonight and got destroyed on multiple occasions.

I know ETN got hurt, but I don't understand why you draft somebody 25th overall, only to have him be the 3rd string running back. Especially when the 2nd RB is Hyde... Makes no sense, especially how they used them tonight (before ETN got hurt). One play they ran ETN straight into the back of the Center. Literally the next play they run a toss to Hyde.. Literally backwards of how they should be used, but ok.

We miss Chark's speed and the lack of a receiving TE continues to be woefully glaring.

Hopefully Marvin Jones' shoulder isn't hurt too bad.

Agreed on everything. W/R/T the running plays, it is classic overcoaching. "They won't expect us to run Etienne up the middle" and you end up with a guy running into a lineman's tail end.

Gonna be a long year, and if the starting line can't stay healthy TLaw is gonna get shellshocked.

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My thoughts:

1. This is undoubtedly a slow team on offense. I do think Viska is average speed and Chark is plus so Prisco is a bit off there, but other than that (and our backup RB) it is a very slow offense.

2. These growing pains should be expected from Campbell and Little. Campbell has the length and speed to be a good corner, but everyone said he was going to take some time because he is still raw with his technique and he has always had trouble playing the ball. Fortunately there is a recent archetype for basically exactly what he is and was groomed into an elite CB, Carlton Davis. He was also pretty stiff (not Campbell stiff) and had a terrible time playing the ball.

3. Little is showing weakness in the parts of the game you can't train in practice. You can practice pass sets and hitting the sled all day long, but you can't simulate a DE bullrushing you. I am encouraged that he is still protecting the edge well. He will get better, and I love that he is getting all of these reps...but it will take time.

4. I honestly can't think of any positives. Pray that Cullen's scheme will wake up the defense, and pray that Chark's speed will unlock the offense. I don't think the answers for our problems were on the field in either game yet.

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We have a lot of young players on this team. Give them a few years, and by the time they are too frustrated to continue to play for the Jags, they should get the proper development from their future team and start to contribute at that time.

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https://twitter.com/JStCyrTV/status/1430...83412?s=20

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Gotta love the 3rd and long plays and throw a 2 or 3 yard pass with an immediate tackle. Brilliant!

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Hahah Prisco. I don't like when he is right. This offense has big red flags. We are going to get dominated. Rah ran is only going so far.

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Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

https://twitter.com/JStCyrTV/status/1430...83412?s=20

There's Campbell: 'I can see me on the big TV!' 

Was he even thinking about the football in flight?

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https://twitter.com/JStCyrTV/status/1430...83412?s=20

https://twitter.com/JStCyrTV/status/1430...83412?s=20

There's Campbell: 'I can see me on the big TV!' 

Was he even thinking about the football in flight?

Hahaha. The WR looking at the ball, the trailing DB looking at the ball and this idiot is looking straight ahead at the end zone wall.

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https://twitter.com/JStCyrTV/status/1430...83412?s=20

There's Campbell: 'I can see me on the big TV!' 

Was he even thinking about the football in flight?

Hahaha. The WR looking at the ball, the trailing DB looking at the ball and this idiot is looking straight ahead at the end zone wall.

In his defense, it's difficult to get your head turned around to look for the ball when you're busy tackling the WR before the ball gets there.

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https://twitter.com/JStCyrTV/status/1430...83412?s=20

There's Campbell: 'I can see me on the big TV!' 

Was he even thinking about the football in flight?

Comedy gold man lmao. Campbell has been making me cringe.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

this has to be one of the worst preseason games ever, poor play of the Jags 1s/2 vs the same of the Saints, and the season ending injury to Travis Etienne...name another game pre/reg season that is worse...

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this has to be one of the worst preseason games ever, poor play of the Jags 1s/2 vs the same of the Saints, and the season ending injury to Travis Etienne...name another game pre/reg season that is worse...

Tavian Banks horrific injury in Atlanta on a super bowl capable team was way worse. 

Honestly Weaver bad decisions outside Gene Smith pale in comparison to the current owner. At least we drafted the generational QB.

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Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

https://twitter.com/JStCyrTV/status/1430...83412?s=20

There's Campbell: 'I can see me on the big TV!' 

Was he even thinking about the football in flight?

After thinking about it .... he needs to look at the big screen more. The screen will show him when the ball is in the air so he knows to turn around. At this point it couldn't hurt.

Maybe the Jag fans need to come up with a signal for him at home games. Yell out ball in air or something so he looks up.

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My thoughts:

1. This is undoubtedly a slow team on offense. I do think Viska is average speed and Chark is plus so Prisco is a bit off there, but other than that (and our backup RB) it is a very slow offense.

2. These growing pains should be expected from Campbell and Little. Campbell has the length and speed to be a good corner, but everyone said he was going to take some time because he is still raw with his technique and he has always had trouble playing the ball. Fortunately there is a recent archetype for basically exactly what he is and was groomed into an elite CB, Carlton Davis. He was also pretty stiff (not Campbell stiff) and had a terrible time playing the ball.

3. Little is showing weakness in the parts of the game you can't train in practice. You can practice pass sets and hitting the sled all day long, but you can't simulate a DE bullrushing you. I am encouraged that he is still protecting the edge well. He will get better, and I love that he is getting all of these reps...but it will take time.

4. I honestly can't think of any positives. Pray that Cullen's scheme will wake up the defense, and pray that Chark's speed will unlock the offense. I don't think the answers for our problems were on the field in either game yet.

I agree with all of this. It's way too early to claim that Campbell is a bust. Your point about Little is also good. The expectations by our fanbase, local media and coaches were unreasonable based on how he did in training camp. The guy hadn't played for 2 years!

It's true that there weren't any real positives from last night's game. However, I do expect the offense to get better once the offensive linemen return along with Chark. The run defense should be very solid this season, but I expect the pass defense to be in the bottom 5. Campbell and Cisco will need time to acclimate to the NFL. Griffin is just a slightly above average corner and who knows what we'll get from Henderson. Top that off with a below average pass rush and I expect opposing quarterbacks to salivate at the thought of opposing our secondary.

The loss of Etienne is obviously a major blow to the offense. We'll likely see Manhertz utilized regularly to double-team the opponents best pass rusher. Lawrence still will not have sufficient time to throw deep to Chark. It may be time to give the Eagles a call regarding Ertz. With Etienne gone, they need someone else to help out Lawrence and Ertz looks like the best option now.

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