Your link didn't work, but going to continue our conversation from the other thread:


First of all, I want to say that your harsh tone is really much kinder than my harsh tone, so you probably don't need to apologize for it moving forward. 

Now that that's out of the way, I get that people are dying, and you're right.... I don't care. I can assure you that if I worked in the ER for the week, I would not change my position. The main people that are dying are the very elderly and the unhealthy. We have known that for a while now. 

Look, I have said it before, and I will say it again. I think the elderly and unhealthy should take the vaccine. I've been clear about that. It could save their lives. However, every time I whittle this argument down to it's core, which is that the vaccine should not be a global rollout, we end up talking about hospitalizations and deaths again. It's a vicious circle. You want to solve the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths? Focus on getting the elderly and unhealthy vaccinated. If that doesn't happen, the deaths will be high, but until until those people die off or get natural immunity. It's how it's worked since the beginning of time. 

I don't know what the age is of the relatives your staff is burying, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say they were pretty old or pretty unhealthy. But, since we are going to set this precedent, I have to ask: Are you restricting sugar when an employee has to bury a relative due to diabetes? Are you mandating exercise every time a person has to bury their relatives for heart disease? Don't you care about those employees just the same? What else can you regulate to protect their health? 

You wax on about watching people suffer every day, but give no thought of the suffering that might be caused by them having to choose their job or a vaccine. What about the suffering caused by having a shortage of nurses? What about the damage that is being done to the medical community for failing to implement logical policies? For example, where my wife works, you don't even have to get tested if you're vaccinated and have people in your household that are sick with Covid. What happens when the vaccinated or unvaccinated get sick and die via hospital exposure? Are they going to trust the hospitals more or less? What about the people who will inevitably lose loved ones to staff shortages? Are they going to value your take it or leave it mandate?

I have used this analogy before, but generals have to make tough calls. I fully expect the front line workers to want to save all of their patients. I expect the administration to do what's best for the most people. You're a general. I just don't think you are making the best long term decision. I think you are being emotional and reactionary. Why would you fire someone under 50 who is healthy for a .09% chance they get admitted to the hospital? Or a .001%  they die? Is that really the level of micromanagement you want to get down to as a hospital administrator? Do you really think that's better than losing a fraction of your highly trained workforce? 

If I could actually find the numbers, I think we'd be shocked at how little this vaccine is actually contributing to the safety of healthy people under 50. However, that's just not available for some stupid reason. Fauci says on national TV that he needs to talk with his people to see why people with natural immunity need to take the vaccine. This is MONTHS after I, the lay person, has been saying that on this message board. You don't think he's never thought of that before? The CDC is making bad policy, which means the government is making bad policy, which means the hospitals are making policy. These mandates that force people to choose are unamerican and unscientific.

Every year we terminate people for not taking the flu shot...every year. We will not hire someone who cannot provide proof of MMR, Measles, Polio, and numerous other vaccines for diseases that had ~ zero deaths last year. A new vaccine for a new disease is not any different no matter what reasons that don't come to pass keep being floated as roadblocks. As far as chronic conditions we influence that by the cost of the insurance premium and numerous programs to improve activity and general health. And smokers? Don't even start with how that unhealthy behavior is addressed. You wanna be unhealthy you pay more, but infectious diseases obviously don't work for that model. I won't sit here and defend the government because they've done numerous things I disagreed with, starting with Pelosi in China Town and going right up to Fauci's vacillation on..well, pretty much everything. I will say that I've had several conversations with my team members who say they are leaving and I am sympathetic to their circumstance, but as you say, generals make tough decisions for the good of the whole. At the moment 4% is the number who cannot accept the mandate, sometimes you just have to ignore the contrarians and move on. That's the position of every major healthcare system in the Jacksonville market/region and I don't disagree with it.

Your whole argument has been reduced to the simple fact that you CAN require the vaccine. I acknowledge that. I am arguing whether or not you SHOULD require the vaccine. You have not given an adequate defense for this. Just because it was done a certain way does not mean that is the right way. Just because it was authorized for certain vaccines doesn't mean it should be authorized for all. Even with the flu vaccine, the mandates were brought in slowly, over time, and the vaccine had been studied for years. Truth be told, I just made assumptions about why the flu vaccines were necessary, but the more I learn, the more I realize that that was probably a profit driven policy, too. 

Regardless, you have yet to defend why people taking this vaccine is good for the whole. It's this premise that is getting us caught in a circular argument that goes like this: I say the vaccination shouldn't be rolled out globally, because it's not supported by the science. You say it should to prevent deaths. I show that the majority of deaths are elderly and unhealthy and concede they should take it. You say it's been established that companies can allow for mandates. I say that's not optimal, and it's policy driven primarily by greed. You say it's necessary for the greater good, so everyone should take them. which brings us back to the global rollout argument. Rinse and repeat. 

Until you can address why the mandate is necessary for the greater good (and not use something weak like even if it just saves one death), the burden is on you. More damage will be done by firing 4% of your workforce than requiring no mandate. On a side note, I was going to guess 5% of the workforce would quit over this. Makes me happy when my educated guesses are on the nose.

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Like I said. Redheads are either smokin' hawt or ugly as a bag of excrement. She ain't smokin' hawt.

A responsible reporter would have followed up his question with the exact same question and forced her to elaborate,  but journalism is dead.

Sad, but true.  Every reporter in the room should have repeated the question (and no other), until she answered or walked out.  Don't they realize their strength is in their numbers and presenting a united front?

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When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

A responsible reporter would have followed up his question with the exact same question and forced her to elaborate,  but journalism is dead.

Sad, but true.  Every reporter in the room should have repeated the question (and no other), until she answered or walked out.  Don't they realize their strength is in their numbers and presenting a united front?

They're exquisitely aware of it, but only exercise it when attacking Republicans. The reason they didn't badger Psaki is because they don't want her to answer a question which could cast their political party in an unfavorable light.

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White man kicks black family out of New York restaurant for not having vaccine papers. Patrons cheer. This is where we are: https://t.co/WvMoVPIK7g

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White man kicks black family out of New York restaurant for not having vaccine papers. Patrons cheer. This is where we are: https://t.co/WvMoVPIK7g

Why was it important for you to point out skin color?

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Because that's been the standard for the left for the last 10 years.

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Haha 3rd booster of Pfizer good for at least 12 days per NYT coming from Isreal data. You are going to have to get the shot, be down 1-5 days for recovery, then get 1 week of protection. The you start it all over again.

Are hospitals going to fire employees if they don't get their dose every 2 weeks?

Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

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NIH now says vitamin c,d, and zinc should be used in treatment and prevention.

FDA is fighting the boosters for some reason while Biden and Israel are heavily pushing them.

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I'm sorry, what?

Sorry I am pissed off!  This administration has strong armed my employer to force me to get this vaccine in order to keep my job then exempts certain government entities from his mandate.

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I don’t care which side of the fence you sit on with respect to the vaccine but this clearly says the vaccine is utter bs.

That's not what happened but some will believe what they choose to believe.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

Sorry I am pissed off!  This administration has strong armed my employer to force me to get this vaccine in order to keep my job then exempts certain government entities from his mandate.

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I don’t care which side of the fence you sit on with respect to the vaccine but this clearly says the vaccine is utter bs.

That's not what happened but some will believe what they choose to believe.

Thaf is exactly what happened. What do you think happened?

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Because that's been the standard for the left for the last 10 years.

Stroudcrowd1 (D)

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I guess just one side gets to abuse the race card. Back off, Stroud... can't sarcastically use Democrats hypocrisy to your advantage.

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White man kicks black family out of New York restaurant for not having vaccine papers. Patrons cheer. This is where we are: https://t.co/WvMoVPIK7g

Seriously it's not a race issue so why point it out?

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White man kicks black family out of New York restaurant for not having vaccine papers. Patrons cheer. This is where we are: https://t.co/WvMoVPIK7g

Seriously it's not a race issue so why point it out?

It shouldn't be, but the Left has taken the position that every time something "bad" happens to a black person, a white person is responsible.

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When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

White man kicks black family out of New York restaurant for not having vaccine papers. Patrons cheer. This is where we are: https://t.co/WvMoVPIK7g

Seriously it's not a race issue so why point it out?

Look at the vaccination rate among African Americans.  It is a race issue.

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White man kicks black family out of New York restaurant for not having vaccine papers. Patrons cheer. This is where we are: https://t.co/WvMoVPIK7g

Seriously it's not a race issue so why point it out?

Americus, you have to address this, and here's why. The Left believes in systemic racism. This means they believe that even if an individual is not racist, the system of laws creates a two-tiered system of justice that implicitly favors white people. Now, this is a lie, but they point to incidents just like this to "prove" their point. So, what's going to happen is the left is going to make this policy. It is going to disproportionately favor whites. 10 years from now, the left will use this law as an example of white supremacy in the system. If you don't call out the disparity now, they will pin this on conservatives, just like they always do. 

Not only do you need to call it out for posterity, you need to hold them accountable to their own ideals so they can see the folly in them. They are ushering in a policy that is going to disenfranchise blacks. So, either they care about what they are saying and back off it, or they don't and need to shut up. Stroud is not wrong for pointing this out.

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I think we can take away from this COVID debacle is a few things.

1. It is no worse than the flu and that for political reasons it has been made out to be much worse than it actually is.

2. We cannot trust the government nor the media to be truthful with the public regarding any pandemic; this one or any others that come down the pike. They have so thoroughly destroyed any credibility that they may have had left.

3. Natural Immunity is superior to the vaccine, that is no conjecture but FACT...

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

4. Doctors and hospitals will make policy that hurts people by continuing to believe the CDC and FDA actually care about the science.

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Speaking of...

FSG, can you explain what's happening in Israel?

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7750357/

Take your vitamins folks.

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Guess the FDA isn't a huge fan of boosters.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/fda-panel...ne-booster

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