Thanks for sharing that video, Bullseye. Good insight on Pederson's RPO approach.

A lot of what Pederson likes to do with the RPO and inside zone read? That's exactly what Lawrence was running at Clemson. Philosophically they should blend very well together. Etienne should be great in this system. Robinson, when he's healthy? He'll be ready to go. It puts a lot of pressure on Lawrence to read the box correctly, get the count correctly and understand what he's truly seeing out there from a coverage perspective. In the long run it's going to make him a better QB.

I think we're fixing to see a lot of fun and exciting things on offense this year. Really, really excited about who they're going to target next month in March and who they start looking at in the draft. Getting a guy like Ertz or Schultz to combine with Arnold. Getting one of these receivers in the market or bringing back Chark is exciting. You might actually see Shenault thrive in this system once they get it going with the pick plays and RPO screen formations.

A WR now like Dotson, Shakir, Bolden and Philips in the draft start to climb up on your draft board a little bit more in this type of system. A TE like McBride, Kolar and Likely start to look more and more intriguing to add into the mix. You really want an Ertz / Goedert situation here now with this offense.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Thanks for sharing that video, Bullseye. Good insight on Pederson's RPO approach.

A lot of what Pederson likes to do with the RPO and inside zone read? That's exactly what Lawrence was running at Clemson. Philosophically they should blend very well together. Etienne should be great in this system. Robinson, when he's healthy? He'll be ready to go. It puts a lot of pressure on Lawrence to read the box correctly, get the count correctly and understand what he's truly seeing out there from a coverage perspective. In the long run it's going to make him a better QB.

I think we're fixing to see a lot of fun and exciting things on offense this year. Really, really excited about who they're going to target next month in March and who they start looking at in the draft. Getting a guy like Ertz or Schultz to combine with Arnold. Getting one of these receivers in the market or bringing back Chark is exciting. You might actually see Shenault thrive in this system once they get it going with the pick plays and RPO screen formations.

A WR now like Dotson, Shakir, Bolden and Philips in the draft start to climb up on your draft board a little bit more in this type of system. A TE like McBride, Kolar and Likely start to look more and more intriguing to add into the mix. You really want an Ertz / Goedert situation here now with this offense.

Who is Bolden? We might be able to get Phillips as an UDFA. This is a very, very deep WR class. Almost as deep as RB.

---

I will be surprised if anyone else makes it to this front office. Baalke won his power play and the ownership of this team sucks. Basically Doug caved and now he gets a bunch of torn ACLs and Baalke smartest man in the room nonsense. He gets a leaker and a back stabber because he wasn't as hot a candidate as he thought he would be this year.

Khan sucks but I will hope for the best again. And then again and again. I wonder how many more dang years the dude has on his GM Contract.

From jaguars.com
The Jacksonville Jaguars will formally introduce Doug Pederson as the team's head coach during a press conference at TIAA Bank Field on Saturday, Feb. 5 at noon ET. Owner Shad Khan and General Manager Trent Baalke will join Pederson. The livestream will begin with Senior Reporter and Editor J.P. Shadrick hosting pre-press conference coverage at 11:50 AM ET as well as post-press conference coverage immediately following.

I am so thrilled

---

Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

Thanks for sharing that video, Bullseye. Good insight on Pederson's RPO approach.

A lot of what Pederson likes to do with the RPO and inside zone read? That's exactly what Lawrence was running at Clemson. Philosophically they should blend very well together. Etienne should be great in this system. Robinson, when he's healthy? He'll be ready to go. It puts a lot of pressure on Lawrence to read the box correctly, get the count correctly and understand what he's truly seeing out there from a coverage perspective. In the long run it's going to make him a better QB.

I think we're fixing to see a lot of fun and exciting things on offense this year. Really, really excited about who they're going to target next month in March and who they start looking at in the draft. Getting a guy like Ertz or Schultz to combine with Arnold. Getting one of these receivers in the market or bringing back Chark is exciting. You might actually see Shenault thrive in this system once they get it going with the pick plays and RPO screen formations.

A WR now like Dotson, Shakir, Bolden and Philips in the draft start to climb up on your draft board a little bit more in this type of system. A TE like McBride, Kolar and Likely start to look more and more intriguing to add into the mix. You really want an Ertz / Goedert situation here now with this offense.

Who is Bolden? We might be able to get Phillips as an UDFA. This is a very, very deep WR class. Almost as deep as RB.

Slade Bolden out of Alabama. You're probably right though about Philips. Bolden will probably be in the same situation. We just have a ton of picks this year in RD6. I think if you really like one of these short, slot type of guys you might want to take a shot on them directly instead of chancing it.

However, depending on how free agency shakes out next month. I would rather see them package up some of those picks in RD6 and try to get back into the bottom of RD3 or somewhere in RD4 if it means snatching up a guy like Kellen Diesch, Luke Goedeke or Josh Sills to shore up the offensive line.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I will be surprised if anyone else makes it to this front office. Baalke won his power play and the ownership of this team sucks. Basically Doug caved and now he gets a bunch of torn ACLs and Baalke smartest man in the room nonsense.  He gets a leaker and a back stabber because he wasn't as hot a candidate as he thought he would be this year.

Khan sucks but I will hope for the best again. And then again and again. I wonder how many more dang years the dude has on  his GM Contract.

From jaguars.com
The Jacksonville Jaguars will formally introduce Doug Pederson as the team's head coach during a press conference at TIAA Bank Field on Saturday, Feb. 5 at noon ET. Owner Shad Khan and General Manager Trent Baalke will join Pederson. The livestream will begin with Senior Reporter and Editor J.P. Shadrick hosting pre-press conference coverage at 11:50 AM ET as well as post-press conference coverage immediately following.

I am so thrilled

I still think Spielman comes.

Like I said yesterday, they’re giving Pederson his limelight today and then Spielman will have his soon.

---

I will be surprised if anyone else makes it to this front office. Baalke won his power play and the ownership of this team sucks. Basically Doug caved and now he gets a bunch of torn ACLs and Baalke smartest man in the room nonsense.  He gets a leaker and a back stabber because he wasn't as hot a candidate as he thought he would be this year.

Khan sucks but I will hope for the best again. And then again and again. I wonder how many more dang years the dude has on  his GM Contract.

From jaguars.com
The Jacksonville Jaguars will formally introduce Doug Pederson as the team's head coach during a press conference at TIAA Bank Field on Saturday, Feb. 5 at noon ET. Owner Shad Khan and General Manager Trent Baalke will join Pederson. The livestream will begin with Senior Reporter and Editor J.P. Shadrick hosting pre-press conference coverage at 11:50 AM ET as well as post-press conference coverage immediately following.

I am so thrilled

I still think Spielman comes.

Like I said yesterday, they’re giving Pederson his limelight today and then Spielman will have his soon.

I hope you are right. I want to be excited about the draft. Last year wasn't a draft disaster but it sure seemed to be lacking.

---

Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

I still think Spielman comes.

Like I said yesterday, they’re giving Pederson his limelight today and then Spielman will have his soon.

I hope you are right. I want to be excited about the draft. Last year wasn't a draft disaster but it sure seemed to be lacking.

100% agree.

If Spielman isn’t here, it’s going to be really bad.

---

Who is Bolden? We might be able to get Phillips as an UDFA. This is a very, very deep WR class. Almost as deep as RB.

Slade Bolden out of Alabama. You're probably right though about Philips. Bolden will probably be in the same situation. We just have a ton of picks this year in RD6. I think if you really like one of these short, slot type of guys you might want to take a shot on them directly instead of chancing it.

However, depending on how free agency shakes out next month. I would rather see them package up some of those picks in RD6 and try to get back into the bottom of RD3 or somewhere in RD4 if it means snatching up a guy like Kellen Diesch, Luke Goedeke or Josh Sills to shore up the offensive line.

Did he declare? He was a redshirt Junior. I thought he stayed in school.

---

I hope you are right. I want to be excited about the draft. Last year wasn't a draft disaster but it sure seemed to be lacking.

100% agree.

If Spielman isn’t here, it’s going to be really bad.

Really, Really, Really bad.

---

That's the whole point.

It's never been purely about merit.

How else can you explain Josh McCown, whose only coaching experience is on the high school level, actually getting a SECOND NFL head coaching interview?!?

For over a decade, African Americans weren't allowed in the NFL at all as a matter of policy.   For several decades to follow, they weren't allowed to play certain positions like QB, C and MLB, under the rationale that blacks were not equipped to handle the more cerebral positions.

As a society, we aren't too far removed from a time where race dictated where you were able to live, where you were able to be after sunset, into what doorway you could enter and exit, whether you could get healthcare at the nearest hospital, where you went to school, who you could marry, what jobs you could hold, where you sat on a bus, what water fountains you could drink from, whether you were allowed to vote or sit on a jury.  The racism that created those comprehensive LAWS, policies and practices persists today, manifesting itself in myriad ways that triggers the very outrage you are complaining about.

When I first joined the Jaguars.com board, I literally argued against the entire board on this very topic.  I was quite familiar with the subject matter, as I graduated from law school just a couple of years before, and my Upper Level Writing requirement was on this subject.

Cyrus Mehri and Johnnie Cochran (yes that one) threatened an employment discrimination action against the NFL and its member clubs for the failure to hire black coaches.  The immediate, reflective reaction to that was aversion to the idea NFL teams would somehow be forced to hire unqualified minorities.  Interestingly, a few months later, the Jaguars hired Jack Del Rio to be their next head coach.

At the time, he had all of ONE (1) year as an NFL defensive coordinator, and maybe 6 years as a position coach.  At the time, there were numerous other candidates, black and white, who had way more experience as coordinators and coaches than JDR.  Yet when he was hired, there was universal celebration.  People gleefully echoed the sentiment he expressed in the pres conference that "there would be no more 3 yards and a cloud of dust."  Yet these same people were dead silent about JDR's comparative lack of qualifications.  As a group, the people on this board associated a lack of qualifications to black coaching candidates, but did not subject guys like JDR to the same scrutiny.  He was given the the unquestioned presumption of qualification they denied to the hypothetical black coaching candidate without having any idea what qualifications that unnamed coach might actually have.  When I called them on it, nobody had anything remotely resembling an explanation for the double standards.

Whether you think this double standard is the end result of conscious or unconscious bias, the end result is the same.  Sadly, NFL owners are not exempt from these biases, and neither are black/latino/Asian coaches.  This disparity has state and federal law implications, to say nothing about ramifications in the lives of the coaches involved.

I disagree in most cases. Sure there are going to be a few racist coaches but overall I believe the owners want to win above all else. If there was a black coach who was above other candidates I believe in most cases they would be hired. 

There hasn't been any female, Asian, Indian, and many other types of head coaches either. It's not because racist bias in most case. 

I don't believe in the whole critical race theory rhetoric.

---

This can't be done as one it creates levels so it takes to long to move up. The second thing is the coaches have to be a good fit personally and be able to work with the team.

Pederson got himself fired because he wasn't a fit with the GM and the GM had more control with the owner.

Leftwich didn't get hired because Khan isn't going to fire Baalke or wasn't just going to hire whoever Leftwich wanted without an interview process.



The NFL is going to have a bigger problem coming soon. Look at who is getting interviews now. Younger coordinators who may or may not played the game. If they played football, they usually weren't good enough to play much in college. They worked as unpaid assistants, took classes, GAs, etc. They went wherever to learn how to create an off/Def.

These are not your normal past NFL coaches who were jocks themselves usually. The game has moved past that and you can't force teams to hire coaches based on skin color.

Even though the majority of the players are minorities, there are a lot of environment and societal norms that make it a small chance that minority will have the same resume as the coaches getting hired now.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

Agreed. Hiring anybody based on skin tone is pure racist both ways.  Maybe there aren't that many African American candidates currently either want the job, not qualified or experienced enough, or applied for head coaching jobs right now.

Saying it's all racism is a complete load of crap.

I'm not getting into coaches being racist.  I'm talking about the decisionmakers who hire and fire coaches that have produced the disparate impact that is the subject of this suit.  For the purposes of clarification, "Disparate treatment is explicit, purposeful racism (i.e. Blacks need not apply).  "Disparate impact" involves presumably race neutral policies that have discriminatory effect.  For the purposes of this discussion, I'll accept the presumption that owners want to win above all else.  However, if owners have  paradigms that, wittingly or not, lead them to conclude minority coaches are less qualified to produce the desired winning, then the disparate impact will be produced.
  As to your belief that a hypothetical black coach above all else would be hired in most cases:

1.  Sherm Lewis was OC of an offense that went to back to back Super Bowls in the 1990s, that produced an MVP QB and was never hired.  Rich Kotite got hired twice but Lewis never got his shot.  Similarly, Eric bienemy has been OC for the KC Chiefs the last four years.  During that span, the Chiefs have been to four straight AFC championships, went to two Suoer Bowls, won a world title with one of the most explosive offenses the league has seen.  He hasn't been hired.  Meanwhile, Josh McDaniels was OC for the Patriots, got hired in Denver, failed spectacularly, got another job offer from the Colts, accepted it then backed out, and now is on his third head coaching opportunity. At the same time, Josh McCown is working on his second interview with the Texans without any NFL coaching experience.

This is from CBS Sports...

The Houston Texans are zeroing in on their new head coach, and a former NFL quarterback is getting the first opportunity to showcase why he deserves the job. Per NFL Network's Tom Pelissero and Mike Garafolo, the Texans will interview Josh McCown again for their vacant head coaching position -- the first-known interview with a candidate for a second time. McCown is "all-in" on becoming the Texans head coach, unlike when he interviewed last year and wasn't ready to commit to the job. 

McCown was on the Texans' short list of reported interviews for their head coaching vacancy, joining former Dolphins coach Brian Flores, Chargers offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi, Eagles defensive coordinator Jonathan Gannon and Florida Atlantic University assistant Hines Ward. Gannon had interviews for the Broncos job (which went to Nathaniel Hackett) and the Vikings (yet to be filled). Flores has interviewed for the Giants and Bears job (which went to Matt Eberflus), and the Saints also plan to interview him. McCown is viewed as a serious candidate for the Texans job, per Pelissero.

McCown's only official coaching experience came in 2019, when he served as QBs coach for his son's Myers Park High School team in North Carolina -- a role he held while employed by the Eagles as Carson Wentz's backup. Long lauded for his mentoring as a veteran reserve, he's been linked to several high-profile openings since then.

(emphasis added)

In these cases emphasized above, it's clear the African American candidate with the clearly superior resume did NOT get the job over the lesser qualified white candidate.  Eberflus had no head coaching experience, and  he got the position over Flores, who has three years as a coach, two winning seasons.  The McCown example is even more egregious.  He's getting a 2nd interview with the Texans with only one year of coaching experience-on the high school level....part time...back in 2019.   Merit was absolutely meaningless in him getting that opportunity.   In this coaching cycle, nine job openings have come up.  Six coaches have been hired-none of whom were black.  In at least one documented instance in the remaining three openings, more qualified black candidates (or for that matter non candidates) are not getting the same consideration as McCown.

2.  But implicit in your statement is that black coaches would have to be "above all else" to get the job in most instances.  Aside from that being demonstrably not true, what happens in the more likely scenario where there are two or more candidates comparably and similarly qualified?  What we've been seeing in the overwhelming majority of cases is the white coach gets the benefit of the doubt.

As for the lack of female, Indian (dots and/or feathers) coaches, I agree that lack exists.  However, I submit there aren't many women, Indians, etc from those groups who are playing football and staying involved long enough to develop into viable coaching candidates.  I've only known maybe three Asian players in the NFL (former Patriot and Jaguar Eugene Chung, former Cardinals PK John Lee, who strangely had a weird phobia about kicking on CBS, and the current kicker on the Falcons).  There is no such lack of African Americans involved in the game.  Similarly, I would not expect many African American coaches in hockey, because there aren't too many African Americans playing the sport.

In closing, I've no doubt you don't believe in the whole critical race theory thing.  Despite the availability of supporting evidence, there are people who deny the holocaust, who believe there was no racist motivation to the South's actions during the Civil War, who believe that the Earth is flat, that Americans never landed on the moon, and any number of things widely accepted as fact by those sufficiently inquisitive.

---

I will be surprised if anyone else makes it to this front office. Baalke won his power play and the ownership of this team sucks. Basically Doug caved and now he gets a bunch of torn ACLs and Baalke smartest man in the room nonsense.  He gets a leaker and a back stabber because he wasn't as hot a candidate as he thought he would be this year.

Khan sucks but I will hope for the best again. And then again and again. I wonder how many more dang years the dude has on  his GM Contract.

From jaguars.com
The Jacksonville Jaguars will formally introduce Doug Pederson as the team's head coach during a press conference at TIAA Bank Field on Saturday, Feb. 5 at noon ET. Owner Shad Khan and General Manager Trent Baalke will join Pederson. The livestream will begin with Senior Reporter and Editor J.P. Shadrick hosting pre-press conference coverage at 11:50 AM ET as well as post-press conference coverage immediately following.

I am so thrilled

I still think Spielman comes.

Like I said yesterday, they’re giving Pederson his limelight today and then Spielman will have his soon.

We ahould get a better grasp of what will happen in about an hour, when the Jaguars have their press conference announcing the Pederson hire.

It's my deepest hope Spielman's hiring is announced too.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

More than Critical Race Theorey, I despise Disparate Impact. Not in the way you used it Bullseye because of the legal leaning and example you provided. I despise when statistics and data are discarded because it demonatrates disparate impact.

The hiring process for many teams is ridiculous and the Rooney Rule isn't a good answer. The problems are with the Comissioner and he is probably going to lose lots of lawsuits because of him signaling instead of believing in what he pedals.

---

Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

Bullseye’s main point is a good one. It is unreasonable that someone like McCown (and others) get these opportunities over much more qualified candidates who happen to be ethnic minorities.  I’m not sure why that is. I suspect it is because when you’re hiring for the most important, upper positions in your company, you’re looking for a level of comfortableness that includes they talk and sound and look like me. I think that probably an unconscious bias. But it is a bias nonetheless.

On the other hand, for a small number of the candidates it may be that the way they verbally present themselves hinders them. The example I’m thinking of is when I have heard Eric Bieniemy speaking on miked up tape. I don’t think that should be a barrier. He’s obviously very well qualified. But that same hindrance is not there for someone like Flores or Leftwich or Caldwell or Morris or any number of the other coaches.

In 2022 we would like to think that this kind of garbage no longer exists. But apparently it does exist in some of the highest reaches of corporate life. Anything that is based on ethnic bias, either way, any way, is completely out of bounds and has no place in our society.

---

Fix the O-Line!

there was a time when Middle Linebacker was considered too cerebral a leadership position for black players to play. The myth was busted.
Same thing is now happening with the QB position especially with the older generation of elite QBs, Brady-Brees-Rothlesberer all retiring at the same time.

Head coaching is one area where the old tropes and racism still exist at the pro and college level.

---

Peter King touches on this with the Pederson hire.

---

Peter King touches on this with the Pederson hire.

Peter King needs to give way to younger people. As an old white guy, why doesn't he show us the path to enlightenment and give up his "priveledge". He should take Godell with him.

---

Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

Peter King touches on this with the Pederson hire.

Peter King needs to give way to younger people. As an old white guy, why doesn't he show us the path to enlightenment and give up his "priveledge". He should take Godell with him.

Ageist and racist. You’re a paragon of virtue.

---

Peter King needs to give way to younger people. As an old white guy, why doesn't he show us the path to enlightenment and give up his "priveledge". He should take Godell with him.

Ageist and racist. You’re a paragon of virtue.

Johnnie O can beat feet from jaguars.com as well.

---

Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

Bullseye’s main point is a good one. It is unreasonable that someone like McCown (and others) get these opportunities over much more qualified candidates who happen to be ethnic minorities.  I’m not sure why that is. I suspect it is because when you’re hiring for the most important, upper positions in your company, you’re looking for a level of comfortableness that includes they talk and sound and look like me. I think that probably an unconscious bias. But it is a bias nonetheless.

On the other hand, for a small number of the candidates it may be that the way they verbally present themselves hinders them. The example I’m thinking of is when I have heard Eric Bieniemy speaking on miked up tape. I don’t think that should be a barrier. He’s obviously very well qualified. But that same hindrance is not there for someone like Flores or Leftwich or Caldwell or Morris or any number of the other coaches.

In 2022 we would like to think that this kind of garbage no longer exists. But apparently it does exist in some of the highest reaches of corporate life. Anything that is based on ethnic bias, either way, any way, is completely out of bounds and has no place in our society.

I think I agree with you.  The problem isn't overt bias.   But it's the way head coaches are hired, after extensive interviews by owners, who often cite things like "fit," as in "is he a good fit" which has nothing to do with qualifications and everything to do with the owner's comfort level with that person.  At the point where you have several highly qualified candidates, it becomes very subjective, and the choice is usually being made by an old rich white guy who not only wants someone he is comfortable with, but also has a (often subconscious) mental image of what a head coach looks like.  (I have nothing against old rich white guys, by the way.)

Beyond that, the owners are often self-made men with big egos and are not prone to self-examination on things like this.  

"Yes, we need to hire more black head coaches" is an abstract concept when an owner has his own head coach opening and wants to select not only the best qualified candidate, but also the person he is comfortable being around and interacting with and to whom he is entrusting his team's future.   

When you look at the open head coach positions each year, and the candidates who are interviewed and hired, there's no doubt that white people have a built-in advantage in landing these positions.  How to fix it in a manner that is fair to everyone is a tough question.  You have to fix the actual root of the problem, which is, in my opinion, an inherent bias among the owners in favor of white candidates.  I don't think quotas or monetary rewards would fix that at all.  In fact, it might make it worse.  The only fair way to fix this, in my opinion, is for the owners to engage in some honest self-examination about how they do their hiring.

As for our own situation, no one can argue that we didn't hire the most qualified candidate.  And if we hire Spielman, no one can argue that he wasn't the most qualified candidate either.

---

Is this still a thread about our team?

---

When applying national percentages of African Americans in this country (12.4%) to the number of head coaching positions there would be three or four Black coaches. Right now there is one. The ratio is off for sure.
"In 2020, the Black or African American alone population (41.1 million) accounted for 12.4% of all people living in the United States, compared with 38.9 million and 12.6% in 2010."

On the other hand, if the same standards were to be applied to players then the obvious gripe would be on the white mans side.
"White players make up only 24.9 percent of the NFL, compared with 57.5 percent of players who identify as Black or African American."

---

Is this still a thread about our team?

Not in the slightest, other than the fact we hired a white coach I guess. Khan must be racist I tell ya.

---

Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 

Is this still a thread about our team?

It's still there, let's keep it away from the political as long as we can. Once it goes too far that way we'll have to move it, though I don't want to since the conversation is germane to our recent hire.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato