Wait, wait, wait...are you saying it's a HEART problem? No way.

It's certainly a heart problem but it's also a gun problem.  
You're not going to convince me that, say, France, doesn't also have people with this kind of heart problem. Things can have more than one cause. Even more than one necessary cause.

And yet, at L2L said, your odds of being killed in such an incident is miniscule, even is such a terrible place as the USA. Additionally, that heart problem is having a negative influence on many, many more important and wide spread problems in our society than the rare killing of innocent people this way.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

There are countless things that could be done. But they depend on the appetite for change. The facts are that enough people don't want change, which is absolutely fine.  But these same people shouldn't pretend to be shocked when these shootings happen.  Worse is when they offer hollow thoughts and prayers.

What do you want them to change? There are 400 million guns in this country. Your odds of being killed by one after you take away suicides and accidental deaths is astronomically low. Even when you include them, your odds of dying to them are less than getting hit by lightning. If you just take schools and school shootings, the odds are so incredibly rare. I don't have the data on this last guy, but every other school shooter was on some kind of behavioral drug. The problems in this country are largely cultural. We have no identity. We have no shared sense of purpose. We rely too much on chemically castrating our children. Maybe the solution IS more thoughts and prayers. Not just when people die, but in general. We need to fix the hate and apathy, because that is causing this problem.

Some excellent points, especially on the abuse and misuse of behavioral drugs and the lack of cultural identity.  The 400 million guns is often raised, typically in a "well the problem is too big to fix now". Why is there a need for people to own self loading rifles and handguns? Why do people need guns in the first place? And be brutally honest about the need for guns.  Write a list of reasons from most important to least important and draw a line where the need isn't strong enough. I'm not asking you to publish it. Just to think about where you think the need ends and then what type of gun meets that need.

As I have said before, change wont happen and you know what, that's fine.  But people like Ted Cruz can stop deflecting and pretending the problem is someone, something or somewhere else.  Or, more pointedly stop pretending that easy access to unnecessary guns isn't a contributing factor.  If a State wants to allow such easy access to guns, then this is going to happen.

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R.I.P. Stroudcrowd1

Every new detail that comes out makes this one worse and worse.

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Has anyone seen the interview with the mom? She said we shouldn’t judge him because he had his reasons for at he did or some such nonsense like that.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Every new detail that comes out makes this one worse and worse.

Has anyone seen the interview with the mom? She said we shouldn’t judge him because he had his reasons for at he did or some such nonsense like that.

There are some rumors out there that are damning for the government.

Buffalo shooter has been linked to feds for a while and now MSM is picking it up. Feds most likely groomed and had advanced knowledge of the attack.

One of the rumors is this shooter was in the same chat groups and they have linked one of the fed groomers to both of them. We will see what is provable but MSM is even running with the story of the cops doing nothing while the kids died. People are also asking how he was able to afford around $5,000 or more in guns, ammo, and gear while working at Wendy's part time. The mother that got detained and then jumped the fence to save her kids is also getting more airtime.


The shooters family is screwed up but thankfully they are done diluting the gene pool. The grandfather is a felon, the mother and stepfather have past arrests and have drug issues. The kid had mental or emotional issues probably stemming from his screwed up family and didn't know how to deal with his anger.


Sent from my SM-T970 using Tapatalk

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I try not to be a conspiracy guy, but it is odd that there are 4 times as many mass shootings under democratic Presidents. Either the economy/messaging is such that it encourages this type of behavior, the feds are not policing it as well, or it's just a HUGE coincident that these things escalate when a Democrat is in office.

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What do you want them to change? There are 400 million guns in this country. Your odds of being killed by one after you take away suicides and accidental deaths is astronomically low. Even when you include them, your odds of dying to them are less than getting hit by lightning. If you just take schools and school shootings, the odds are so incredibly rare. I don't have the data on this last guy, but every other school shooter was on some kind of behavioral drug. The problems in this country are largely cultural. We have no identity. We have no shared sense of purpose. We rely too much on chemically castrating our children. Maybe the solution IS more thoughts and prayers. Not just when people die, but in general. We need to fix the hate and apathy, because that is causing this problem.

Some excellent points, especially on the abuse and misuse of behavioral drugs and the lack of cultural identity.  The 400 million guns is often raised, typically in a "well the problem is too big to fix now". Why is there a need for people to own self loading rifles and handguns? Why do people need guns in the first place? And be brutally honest about the need for guns.  Write a list of reasons from most important to least important and draw a line where the need isn't strong enough. I'm not asking you to publish it. Just to think about where you think the need ends and then what type of gun meets that need.

As I have said before, change wont happen and you know what, that's fine.  But people like Ted Cruz can stop deflecting and pretending the problem is someone, something or somewhere else.  Or, more pointedly stop pretending that easy access to unnecessary guns isn't a contributing factor.  If a State wants to allow such easy access to guns, then this is going to happen.

There are more guns in this country now, but access to guns was significantly easier until the mid 80's. Now, less households have guns than ever before, and they are harder to acquire. However, those who do own guns tend to own more than they used to. Even still, this problem is on the rise. We need to do a better job with our children. 

I can give you plenty of reasons for owning guns, but I will do it later. I am feeling pretty sick.

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What do you want them to change? There are 400 million guns in this country. Your odds of being killed by one after you take away suicides and accidental deaths is astronomically low. Even when you include them, your odds of dying to them are less than getting hit by lightning. If you just take schools and school shootings, the odds are so incredibly rare. I don't have the data on this last guy, but every other school shooter was on some kind of behavioral drug. The problems in this country are largely cultural. We have no identity. We have no shared sense of purpose. We rely too much on chemically castrating our children. Maybe the solution IS more thoughts and prayers. Not just when people die, but in general. We need to fix the hate and apathy, because that is causing this problem.

Some excellent points, especially on the abuse and misuse of behavioral drugs and the lack of cultural identity.  The 400 million guns is often raised, typically in a "well the problem is too big to fix now". Why is there a need for people to own self loading rifles and handguns? Why do people need guns in the first place? And be brutally honest about the need for guns.  Write a list of reasons from most important to least important and draw a line where the need isn't strong enough. I'm not asking you to publish it. Just to think about where you think the need ends and then what type of gun meets that need.

As I have said before, change wont happen and you know what, that's fine.  But people like Ted Cruz can stop deflecting and pretending the problem is someone, something or somewhere else.  Or, more pointedly stop pretending that easy access to unnecessary guns isn't a contributing factor.  If a State wants to allow such easy access to guns, then this is going to happen.

The most important need here is the need for you to stay out of my business.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I try not to be a conspiracy guy, but it is odd that there are 4 times as many mass shootings under democratic Presidents. Either the economy/messaging is such that it encourages this type of behavior, the feds are not policing it as well, or it's just a HUGE coincident that these things escalate when a Democrat is in office.

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Some excellent points, especially on the abuse and misuse of behavioral drugs and the lack of cultural identity.  The 400 million guns is often raised, typically in a "well the problem is too big to fix now". Why is there a need for people to own self loading rifles and handguns? Why do people need guns in the first place? And be brutally honest about the need for guns.  Write a list of reasons from most important to least important and draw a line where the need isn't strong enough. I'm not asking you to publish it. Just to think about where you think the need ends and then what type of gun meets that need.

As I have said before, change wont happen and you know what, that's fine.  But people like Ted Cruz can stop deflecting and pretending the problem is someone, something or somewhere else.  Or, more pointedly stop pretending that easy access to unnecessary guns isn't a contributing factor.  If a State wants to allow such easy access to guns, then this is going to happen.

There are more guns in this country now, but access to guns was significantly easier until the mid 80's. Now, less households have guns than ever before, and they are harder to acquire. However, those who do own guns tend to own more than they used to. Even still, this problem is on the rise. We need to do a better job with our children. 

I can give you plenty of reasons for owning guns, but I will do it later. I am feeling pretty sick.

These events tend to happen immediately after something damaging to the Dems occurs. Just have a look at last Monday's headlines and you'll see why this happened. Biden to defend Taiwan, Hillary named as approver of Russia collusion hoax, judge upholds Title 42 and Biden's approval rating dips lower than Trump's cellar number...all things we suddenly aren't paying any attention to because of this shooting. What a coincidence!!!

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Some excellent points, especially on the abuse and misuse of behavioral drugs and the lack of cultural identity.  The 400 million guns is often raised, typically in a "well the problem is too big to fix now". Why is there a need for people to own self loading rifles and handguns? Why do people need guns in the first place? And be brutally honest about the need for guns.  Write a list of reasons from most important to least important and draw a line where the need isn't strong enough. I'm not asking you to publish it. Just to think about where you think the need ends and then what type of gun meets that need.

As I have said before, change wont happen and you know what, that's fine.  But people like Ted Cruz can stop deflecting and pretending the problem is someone, something or somewhere else.  Or, more pointedly stop pretending that easy access to unnecessary guns isn't a contributing factor.  If a State wants to allow such easy access to guns, then this is going to happen.

The most important need here is the need for you to stay out of my business.

It doesn’t work that way. You having guns makes it everyone’s business as there’s a chance you could go mental and start killing others like this kid.

Staying out of this kids business didn’t end well for 21 people that are now corpses.

Every mass murderer was a law abiding citizen at some stage.

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R.I.P. Stroudcrowd1

I try not to be a conspiracy guy, but it is odd that there are 4 times as many mass shootings under democratic Presidents. Either the economy/messaging is such that it encourages this type of behavior, the feds are not policing it as well, or it's just a HUGE coincident that these things escalate when a Democrat is in office.

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There are more guns in this country now, but access to guns was significantly easier until the mid 80's. Now, less households have guns than ever before, and they are harder to acquire. However, those who do own guns tend to own more than they used to. Even still, this problem is on the rise. We need to do a better job with our children. 

I can give you plenty of reasons for owning guns, but I will do it later. I am feeling pretty sick.

These events tend to happen immediately after something damaging to the Dems occurs. Just have a look at last Monday's headlines and you'll see why this happened. Biden to defend Taiwan, Hillary named as approver of Russia collusion hoax, judge upholds Title 42 and Biden's approval rating dips lower than Trump's cellar number...all things we suddenly aren't paying any attention to because of this shooting. What a coincidence!!!

Is that right Alex Jones?

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R.I.P. Stroudcrowd1

These events tend to happen immediately after something damaging to the Dems occurs. Just have a look at last Monday's headlines and you'll see why this happened. Biden to defend Taiwan, Hillary named as approver of Russia collusion hoax, judge upholds Title 42 and Biden's approval rating dips lower than Trump's cellar number...all things we suddenly aren't paying any attention to because of this shooting. What a coincidence!!!

Is that right Alex Jones?

Is what I said inaccurrate?

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The most important need here is the need for you to stay out of my business.

It doesn’t work that way. You having guns makes it everyone’s business as there’s a chance you could go mental and start killing others like this kid.

Staying out of this kids business didn’t end well for 21 people that are now corpses.

Every mass murderer was a law abiding citizen at some stage.

It does work that way. Every criminal wasn't one at one time. Doesn't mean that you get to snoop in their life and revoke their rights because of what they might, could, maybe, perhaps do. Life is hard and people abuse their freedoms, collective punishment is not the answer.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Once upon a time there was a flock of sheep. One day a wolf came and dragged one of the sheep away and ate hir. The surviving sheep all got together and shook their heads and stared at the ground unable to look each other in the eye.

"Did you see the teeth on that wolf?" piped up one of the sheep.
"Those teeth were long!" replied another.
"Those teeth were sharp!" bemoaned another.
"Those teeth looked just like assault rifles!" lamented yet another.

Then the smartest sheep in the room (if you don't believe me, just ask him) stood up and said "That wolf could never have done this if he didn't have any teeth. We need to ban ALL teeth! It doesn't matter that the Second Commencement says we are all guaranteed teeth; from this point on NO ONE can have teeth!"

So the sheep banned all teeth. All of the sheep got rid of their teeth. Pulled them right out and threw them away. Then they all got together afterwards and smiled at each other, clapped each other on the back and bragged about how safe they just made the world.

And then they all ran for re-election.

And they all got re-elected.

And they KEEP getting re-elected.

Because there are enough sheep out there who erroneously believe that the wolf is going to pull his own teeth.

Gun control laws only prevent law-abiding people from owning guns. Law-abiding people who own guns are NOT the problem. I'll willingly give up my guns when you find a way to pass a law that legit makes the wolf pull his own teeth.

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Well, that was a rather exhausting and predictable parable.

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Once upon a time there was a flock of sheep. One day a wolf came and dragged one of the sheep away and ate hir. The surviving sheep all got together and shook their heads and stared at the ground unable to look each other in the eye.

"Did you see the teeth on that wolf?" piped up one of the sheep.
"Those teeth were long!" replied another.
"Those teeth were sharp!" bemoaned another.
"Those teeth looked just like assault rifles!" lamented yet another.

Then the smartest sheep in the room (if you don't believe me, just ask him) stood up and said "That wolf could never have done this if he didn't have any teeth.  We need to ban ALL teeth! It doesn't matter that the Second Commencement says we are all guaranteed teeth; from this point on NO ONE can have teeth!"

So the sheep banned all teeth.  All of the sheep got rid of their teeth.  Pulled them right out and threw them away.  Then they all got together afterwards and smiled at each other, clapped each other on the back and bragged about how safe they just made the world.

And then they all ran for re-election.

And they all got re-elected.

And they KEEP getting re-elected.

Because there are enough sheep out there who erroneously believe that the wolf is going to pull his own teeth.

Gun control laws only prevent law-abiding people from owning guns.  Law-abiding people who own guns are NOT the problem.  I'll willingly give up my guns when you find a way to pass a law that legit makes the wolf pull his own teeth.

Good stuff!

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Once upon a time there was a flock of sheep. One day a wolf came and dragged one of the sheep away and ate hir. The surviving sheep all got together and shook their heads and stared at the ground unable to look each other in the eye.

"Did you see the teeth on that wolf?" piped up one of the sheep.
"Those teeth were long!" replied another.
"Those teeth were sharp!" bemoaned another.
"Those teeth looked just like assault rifles!" lamented yet another.

Then the smartest sheep in the room (if you don't believe me, just ask him) stood up and said "That wolf could never have done this if he didn't have any teeth.  We need to ban ALL teeth! It doesn't matter that the Second Commencement says we are all guaranteed teeth; from this point on NO ONE can have teeth!"

So the sheep banned all teeth.  All of the sheep got rid of their teeth.  Pulled them right out and threw them away.  Then they all got together afterwards and smiled at each other, clapped each other on the back and bragged about how safe they just made the world.

And then they all ran for re-election.

And they all got re-elected.

And they KEEP getting re-elected.

Because there are enough sheep out there who erroneously believe that the wolf is going to pull his own teeth.

Gun control laws only prevent law-abiding people from owning guns.  Law-abiding people who own guns are NOT the problem.  I'll willingly give up my guns when you find a way to pass a law that legit makes the wolf pull his own teeth.

Is this example supposed to be about the Uvaldi shooting.  If so, current laws work in preventing someone convicted of a mass shooting (your wolf) from buying a gun again to commit another mass shooting.  

These shooting are done by law abiding citizens, who were law abiding right up to the point they shoot a little girl in the face at point blank range.  The sheep are looking to protect themselves from all the other sheep from becoming a wolf.

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R.I.P. Stroudcrowd1

Like FSG said, my business is none of yours. You can't punish people for crimes they haven't committed. Saying they shouldn't have a gun because they might go nuts is asinine. That's like saying people shouldn't own cars because they might cause an accident. Or light a match because they might burn their neighborhood down.

The people responsible for those kids deaths (other than the guy who shot them)are everyone from his deadbeat parents and grandparents to the deadbeat cops and right on up to the people who sold him the guns, ignoring the warning signs.

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Like FSG said, my business is none of yours. You can't punish people for crimes they haven't committed. Saying they shouldn't have a gun because they might go nuts is asinine. That's like saying people shouldn't own cars because they might cause an accident. Or light a match because they might burn their neighborhood down.

The people responsible for those kids deaths (other than the guy who shot them)are everyone from his deadbeat parents and grandparents to the deadbeat cops and right on up to the people who sold him the guns, ignoring the warning signs.

I don't hear anyone calling for an Australia style confiscation of all privately owned rifles. That would be a punishment.  I don't think anyone's calling for punishment.
I do hear people calling for a more thorough background check or perhaps a license for future gun purchases.  Not sure if that would do any good.  Orlando shooter passed all background checks that could ever be conceived, and had a license to transport prisoners.  Seems like a lot of paperwork and bureaucracy for not much result.
I also hear people calling for limits on magazine length.  That wouldn't do any good at all.  The Buffalo shooting proves that.  
Others are calling for every state to adopt 21 as the minimum age to own a gun and for red flag laws.  Both of those make a lot of sense to me.  Don't make every owner do paperwork.  Only bring in legal paperwork when a problem is perceived or a threat is made.  The minimum age is admittedly arbitrary, and admittedly some mass shooters were over 21, but it's also so simple to enforce that it makes a lot of sense.
I believe in letting high school and college kids get involved with gun clubs and shooting sports.  But they can leave the weapons there until they're 21.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Like FSG said, my business is none of yours. You can't punish people for crimes they haven't committed. Saying they shouldn't have a gun because they might go nuts is asinine. That's like saying people shouldn't own cars because they might cause an accident. Or light a match because they might burn their neighborhood down.

The people responsible for those kids deaths (other than the guy who shot them)are everyone from his deadbeat parents and grandparents to the deadbeat cops and right on up to the people who sold him the guns, ignoring the warning signs.

People should have guns. The question is what sort of guns do they need, not what sort of gun do they want.  Just like we have restrictions on the types of cars you can drive on the road. I can't say my business is none of yours and then go cruising down the highway in a NASCAR or an Indy Car.

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R.I.P. Stroudcrowd1

Like FSG said, my business is none of yours. You can't punish people for crimes they haven't committed. Saying they shouldn't have a gun because they might go nuts is asinine. That's like saying people shouldn't own cars because they might cause an accident. Or light a match because they might burn their neighborhood down.

The people responsible for those kids deaths (other than the guy who shot them)are everyone from his deadbeat parents and grandparents to the deadbeat cops and right on up to the people who sold him the guns, ignoring the warning signs.

People should have guns. The question is what sort of guns do they need, not what sort of gun do they want.  Just like we have restrictions on the types of cars you can drive on the road. I can't say my business is none of yours and then go cruising down the highway in a NASCAR or an Indy Car.

There's no specific restrictions on government related to regulating cars in the Constitution. I oppose government regulating cars since it's just another form of stealing money from the People, but no prohibition exists. You don't get to say that about guns since the plain reading cleary tells you to butt out.

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Like FSG said, my business is none of yours. You can't punish people for crimes they haven't committed. Saying they shouldn't have a gun because they might go nuts is asinine. That's like saying people shouldn't own cars because they might cause an accident. Or light a match because they might burn their neighborhood down.

The people responsible for those kids deaths (other than the guy who shot them)are everyone from his deadbeat parents and grandparents to the deadbeat cops and right on up to the people who sold him the guns, ignoring the warning signs.

I don't hear anyone calling for an Australia style confiscation of all privately owned rifles. That would be a punishment.  I don't think anyone's calling for punishment.
I do hear people calling for a more thorough background check or perhaps a license for future gun purchases.  Not sure if that would do any good.  Orlando shooter passed all background checks that could ever be conceived, and had a license to transport prisoners.  Seems like a lot of paperwork and bureaucracy for not much result.
I also hear people calling for limits on magazine length.  That wouldn't do any good at all.  The Buffalo shooting proves that.  
Others are calling for every state to adopt 21 as the minimum age to own a gun and for red flag laws.  Both of those make a lot of sense to me.  Don't make every owner do paperwork.  Only bring in legal paperwork when a problem is perceived or a threat is made.  The minimum age is admittedly arbitrary, and admittedly some mass shooters were over 21, but it's also so simple to enforce that it makes a lot of sense.
I believe in letting high school and college kids get involved with gun clubs and shooting sports.  But they can leave the weapons there until they're 21.

So basically create more laws that do nothing, take some people's right entirely, and take more money from the rest of the people so they can buy their rights back from the government. No thanks.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

People should have guns. The question is what sort of guns do they need, not what sort of gun do they want.  Just like we have restrictions on the types of cars you can drive on the road. I can't say my business is none of yours and then go cruising down the highway in a NASCAR or an Indy Car.

There's no specific restrictions on government related to regulating cars in the Constitution. I oppose government regulating cars since it's just another form of stealing money from the People, but no prohibition exists. You don't get to say that about guns since the plain reading cleary tells you to butt out.

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I don't hear anyone calling for an Australia style confiscation of all privately owned rifles. That would be a punishment.  I don't think anyone's calling for punishment.
I do hear people calling for a more thorough background check or perhaps a license for future gun purchases.  Not sure if that would do any good.  Orlando shooter passed all background checks that could ever be conceived, and had a license to transport prisoners.  Seems like a lot of paperwork and bureaucracy for not much result.
I also hear people calling for limits on magazine length.  That wouldn't do any good at all.  The Buffalo shooting proves that.  
Others are calling for every state to adopt 21 as the minimum age to own a gun and for red flag laws.  Both of those make a lot of sense to me.  Don't make every owner do paperwork.  Only bring in legal paperwork when a problem is perceived or a threat is made.  The minimum age is admittedly arbitrary, and admittedly some mass shooters were over 21, but it's also so simple to enforce that it makes a lot of sense.
I believe in letting high school and college kids get involved with gun clubs and shooting sports.  But they can leave the weapons there until they're 21.

So basically create more laws that do nothing, take some people's right entirely, and take more money from the rest of the people so they can buy their rights back from the government. No thanks.

It's as if you have no idea what a red flag law is.
Florida has one.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.