Why does Josh get such a pass from the local media? Is it because he had a good rookie season when teamed with 2 other really good pass rushers? He had 7.5 sacks last year and 10 games with zero sacks. I just watched Osher and Sexton talk about Arden Key like he's a backup that you shouldn't expect too much out of, but he had a much better second half of the season last year than JA. I hope Josh has a good year this year because he has a lot of draft capital invested in him, but Travon Walker wasn't brought in to bolster Josh Allen's pass rush. He was brought in to be a legit 15 sack a year guy which Josh is not. Before any homers come in to flame, I believe Josh is a versatile football player but he gets credit like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player and he's not.

---

Why does Josh get such a pass from the local media? Is it because he had a good rookie season when teamed with 2 other really good pass rushers? He had 7.5 sacks last year and 10 games with zero sacks. I just watched Osher and Sexton talk about Arden Key like he's a backup that you shouldn't expect too much out of, but he had a much better second half of the season last year than JA. I hope Josh has a good year this year because he has a lot of draft capital invested in him, but Travon Walker wasn't brought in to bolster Josh Allen's pass rush. He was brought in to be a legit 15 sack a year guy which Josh is not. Before any homers come in to flame, I believe Josh is a versatile football player but he gets credit like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player and he's not.

He does?  You have to be kidding me.

I've never seen anyone here or anywhere else that's ever even insinuated that...never mind that there is pretty much no such thing as a '15 sack a year guy'.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...ckKh00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...saJo00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...saNi00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...raMi02.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...itBr00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...itRe00.htm

---

OK my bad, I didn't mean a 15 sack EVERY year guy. I meant that he hasn't shown that he's capable of a 15 sack year. Sorry

---

Did you see the rest of the d? All the players were traded away and in full rebuild mode.

---

OK my bad, I didn't mean a 15 sack EVERY year guy. I meant that he hasn't shown that he's capable of a 15 sack year. Sorry

And he's played 2/12 seasons.  Wow.

---

Why does Josh get such a pass from the local media? Is it because he had a good rookie season when teamed with 2 other really good pass rushers? He had 7.5 sacks last year and 10 games with zero sacks. I just watched Osher and Sexton talk about Arden Key like he's a backup that you shouldn't expect too much out of, but he had a much better second half of the season last year than JA. I hope Josh has a good year this year because he has a lot of draft capital invested in him, but Travon Walker wasn't brought in to bolster Josh Allen's pass rush. He was brought in to be a legit 15 sack a year guy which Josh is not. Before any homers come in to flame, I believe Josh is a versatile football player but he gets credit like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player and he's not.

1. Josh Allen doesn't really get too much hype 
   
2. Josh Allen received no small amount of flack for his dip in production since the rookie yr
   
3. Walker may not have been drafted to "open up" Allen, but EVERY NFL team strives to have multiple edge rushers so that opponents can't focus protection on one guy
   
4. Because of number 3 - Allen SHOULD receive benefit from Walker's presence and there ain't a damn thing wrong with that 
   
5. Sack numbers are important, but you have to look at so many other things to get the full picture. Pressures, hurrys, QBKDs, TFL and more. 
   
6. Did you watch the buffalo game last year??? He practically took over the game.  Performances like that should increase with more talent in the front 7, plus an additional good cover guy in the secondary. (2 really if you count Cisco) 
   
7. If the Jags offense ever gives the front seven a freakin lead, you'll really see the potential of the pass rushers on hand.
   
8. Key was a very smart add as a rotational pass rusher who will likely see lots of snaps at 3-4 end. RRH, Fatukasi, and Key in the middle with Allen and Walker on the edges at OLB could be pretty darn good. (Hamilton spelling Fatukasi at times) And yes, Key could get looks at EDGE as well, but his ceiling is indeed lower than Josh Allen's IMO. I'm happy we have Key though. Good pick up.  
   
9. If Key gets more snaps at OLB than Allen or Walker - we probably have some issues to address. 
   
10. I've never heard anyone compare Allen to Bosa or Mack. Maybe his performance in a single game, but never his complete skill set.  
    

---

Why does Josh get such a pass from the local media? Is it because he had a good rookie season when teamed with 2 other really good pass rushers? He had 7.5 sacks last year and 10 games with zero sacks. I just watched Osher and Sexton talk about Arden Key like he's a backup that you shouldn't expect too much out of, but he had a much better second half of the season last year than JA. I hope Josh has a good year this year because he has a lot of draft capital invested in him, but Travon Walker wasn't brought in to bolster Josh Allen's pass rush. He was brought in to be a legit 15 sack a year guy which Josh is not. Before any homers come in to flame, I believe Josh is a versatile football player but he gets credit like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player and he's not.

Josh Allen has never gotten credit "like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player."  I don't know where you come up with that. 

About his sack total last year, there are several things that lead to sacks:

1) Obvious pass rushing situations.  When our opponent is ahead by double digits, there are no obvious pass rushing situations.  They can run the ball whenever they want to in that situation.  

2) Pressure from other players.  For any particular player, a lot of sacks can be generated by pressure from other players.  Players who wind up with a lot of sacks often have QBs flushed directly to them by other players.  I don't think we had a lot of that last year.  

Granted, Josh Allen didn't have a great year last year, but I give him a pass based on the dumpster fire of a year we had with Urban Meyer.  It's hard for any individual player to thrive when he's playing on the worst team in the league, and the worst coach in NFL history.  

By the way, I watched Oehser and Sexton talk about Arden Key, and I don't recall them saying we shouldn't expect too much out of him.  What they said was, there won't be a lot of pressure on him because he will be part of a rotation of players at that position.

---

OK my bad, I didn't mean a 15 sack EVERY year guy. I meant that he hasn't shown that he's capable of a 15 sack year. Sorry

The only thing that you meant to do was to start some Bull [BLEEP].

NH3...

---

"AZANE"

so if we respond to this well-considered post, that makes us homers flaming away, correct? what does that make you, the voice of reason?

Here's a thing. Go back, and take a look at how successful we've been the past few seasons. Once you've finished that research, consider how often teams with multi-score leads are relying on the pass to win against us. Kinda hard to get 15 sacks a season when
a) the guy on the other side is a wet fart (Chiasson)
b) offensive ineptitude leaves the defense gassed
c) clock-killing to maintain leads by opposing offenses
d) your opinion of how much a free pass he gets is beyond delusional. Ain't nobody treating him like the best in the game. Heck, I can't even remember the last time someone referred to him as the GOOD Josh Allen as was common earlier in his career.

---

Why does Josh get such a pass from the local media? Is it because he had a good rookie season when teamed with 2 other really good pass rushers? He had 7.5 sacks last year and 10 games with zero sacks. I just watched Osher and Sexton talk about Arden Key like he's a backup that you shouldn't expect too much out of, but he had a much better second half of the season last year than JA. I hope Josh has a good year this year because he has a lot of draft capital invested in him, but Travon Walker wasn't brought in to bolster Josh Allen's pass rush. He was brought in to be a legit 15 sack a year guy which Josh is not. Before any homers come in to flame, I believe Josh is a versatile football player but he gets credit like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player and he's not.

1. Josh Allen doesn't really get too much hype 
   
2. Josh Allen received no small amount of flack for his dip in production since the rookie yr
   
3. Walker may not have been drafted to "open up" Allen, but EVERY NFL team strives to have multiple edge rushers so that opponents can't focus protection on one guy
   
4. Because of number 3 - Allen SHOULD receive benefit from Walker's presence and there ain't a damn thing wrong with that 
   
5. Sack numbers are important, but you have to look at so many other things to get the full picture. Pressures, hurrys, QBKDs, TFL and more. 
   
6. Did you watch the buffalo game last year??? He practically took over the game.  Performances like that should increase with more talent in the front 7, plus an additional good cover guy in the secondary. (2 really if you count Cisco) 
   
7. If the Jags offense ever gives the front seven a freakin lead, you'll really see the potential of the pass rushers on hand.
   
8. Key was a very smart add as a rotational pass rusher who will likely see lots of snaps at 3-4 end. RRH, Fatukasi, and Key in the middle with Allen and Walker on the edges at OLB could be pretty darn good. (Hamilton spelling Fatukasi at times) And yes, Key could get looks at EDGE as well, but his ceiling is indeed lower than Josh Allen's IMO. I'm happy we have Key though. Good pick up.  
   
9. If Key gets more snaps at OLB than Allen or Walker - we probably have some issues to address. 
   
10. I've never heard anyone compare Allen to Bosa or Mack. Maybe his performance in a single game, but never his complete skill set.  
    

 We are in 100% agreement.

Just because a defender needs other players to help him reach maximum productivity, doesn't mean he's a bad player.  It means he needs help. 

There's 11 guys on defense.  Josh Allen is the LAST thing wrong with this defense.

Get him some help like they did this year and develop thise guys.  You will see Allen Flourish.

---

Why does Josh get such a pass from the local media? Is it because he had a good rookie season when teamed with 2 other really good pass rushers? He had 7.5 sacks last year and 10 games with zero sacks. I just watched Osher and Sexton talk about Arden Key like he's a backup that you shouldn't expect too much out of, but he had a much better second half of the season last year than JA. I hope Josh has a good year this year because he has a lot of draft capital invested in him, but Travon Walker wasn't brought in to bolster Josh Allen's pass rush. He was brought in to be a legit 15 sack a year guy which Josh is not. Before any homers come in to flame, I believe Josh is a versatile football player but he gets credit like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player and he's not.

Josh Allen has never gotten credit "like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player."  I don't know where you come up with that. 

About his sack total last year, there are several things that lead to sacks:

1) Obvious pass rushing situations.  When our opponent is ahead by double digits, there are no obvious pass rushing situations.  They can run the ball whenever they want to in that situation.  

2) Pressure from other players.  For any particular player, a lot of sacks can be generated by pressure from other players.  Players who wind up with a lot of sacks often have QBs flushed directly to them by other players.  I don't think we had a lot of that last year.  

Granted, Josh Allen didn't have a great year last year, but I give him a pass based on the dumpster fire of a year we had with Urban Meyer.  It's hard for any individual player to thrive when he's playing on the worst team in the league, and the worst coach in NFL history.  

By the way, I watched Oehser and Sexton talk about Arden Key, and I don't recall them saying we shouldn't expect too much out of him.  What they said was, there won't be a lot of pressure on him because he will be part of a rotation of players at that position.

Agreed almost completely.

I did not see the Oesher/Sexton discussion so I can't comment on it, but based on everything else you wrote here, I agree wholeheartedly with the overall sentiment.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

so if we respond to this well-considered post, that makes us homers flaming away, correct? what does that make you, the voice of reason?

Here's a thing. Go back, and take a look at how successful we've been the past few seasons. Once you've finished that research, consider how often teams with multi-score leads are relying on the pass to win against us. Kinda hard to get 15 sacks a season when
a) the guy on the other side is a wet fart (Chiasson)
b) offensive ineptitude leaves the defense gassed
c) clock-killing to maintain leads by opposing offenses
d) your opinion of how much a free pass he gets is beyond delusional. Ain't nobody treating him like the best in the game. Heck, I can't even remember the last time someone referred to him as the GOOD Josh Allen as was common earlier in his career.

(Emphasis added)

In the spirit of full disclosure, I referred to Josh Allen as you suggested in the bold part.  However

1.  You obviously weren't privy to that face to face discussion.

2.  The statement wasn't offered as legitimate analysis.  It was done in the spirit of running smack talk to my buddy, an obnoxious Bills fan.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Why does Josh get such a pass from the local media? Is it because he had a good rookie season when teamed with 2 other really good pass rushers? He had 7.5 sacks last year and 10 games with zero sacks. I just watched Osher and Sexton talk about Arden Key like he's a backup that you shouldn't expect too much out of, but he had a much better second half of the season last year than JA. I hope Josh has a good year this year because he has a lot of draft capital invested in him, but Travon Walker wasn't brought in to bolster Josh Allen's pass rush. He was brought in to be a legit 15 sack a year guy which Josh is not. Before any homers come in to flame, I believe Josh is a versatile football player but he gets credit like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player and he's not.

Calming down after releasing a string of expletives caused by technical issues that occurred without warning in the middle of my response to you.

Let me try this again.

Earlier, I echoed the argument that Allen had little to no help around him on defense, and that was compounded by him not having the luxury of playing with a lot of leads.

While you are probably too young to appreciate the historical examples I am citing to you, hopefully you will understand the point I am making.

Quite possibly the greatest defense of all time were the 1970s Steelers-known as the Steel Curtain.  They won 4 Super Bowls in a 6 year period.  Defensively, they had 6 Hall of Fame caliber players on defense, including:

DL Mean Joe Greene
DL L.C. Greenwood
LB Jack Lambert
LB Jack Ham
CB Mel Blount
S Donnie Shell

This doesn't even factor in 5 other Hall of Famers they had on offense.

QB Terry Bradshaw
RB Franco Harris
WR Lynn Swann
WR John Stallworth
C Mike Webster

Another candidate for the greatest defense of all time was the 1985 Bears defense, which featured three Hall of Famers and several other Pro Bowl/All Pro caliber players:

DE Richard Dent
DL Dan Hampton
DT Steve McMichael
LB Otis Wilson
LB Mike Singletary
LB Wilber Marshall
S Gary Fencik

On top of that, they had a defensive coordinator who had a scheme-called the 46 defense-that befuddled opposing offenses for the first half of the 1980s-coached by arguably the greatest Defensive coordinator of all time, Buddy Ryan.

Another candidate for greatest defense of all time was the 2000 Ravens.

That defense teatured stalwarts like

DE Michael McCrary
DT Tony Siragusa
DT Sam Adams
DE Rob Burnett
LB Peter Boulware
LB Ray Lewis
S Rod Woodson
CB Chris McAlister

The 2002 Tampa defense offered

DE Simeon Rice
DT Warren Sapp
LB Derrick Brooks
CB Ronde Barber
S John Lynch

Among others

The Legion of Boom Seahawks?

LB Bobby Wagner
LB KJ Wright
CB Richard Sherman
SS Kam Chancellor
FS Earl Thomas

From a pure football perspective, there are at least 4 Hall of Fame candidates in that group.

Even if you haven't seen any of these guys play, if you go to profootballreference.com and look them up, you will se most of the plaeyers I listed above were pretty good if not great.

When considering the issues you posed above, ask yourself a few questions:

1.  Does Josh Allen currently have anyone opposite him on the defense that comes close to any of the guys listed above?

2.  Has Josh Allen played in a scheme that consistently allowed him to excel?

3.  Would any of those defenses listed above be considered among the best defenses ever if they didn't all have Hall of Fame caliber players feeding off each other and preventing opposing offenses from focusing their attention on one player?

Moral of the story:  The best players on the best defenses usually have good to great players surrounding them that enables them to shine.  When Josh Allen had a defense his rookie year that came close to replicating that, Josh Allen played statistically his best ball.  When those surrounding players left, Allen had nobody to take attention away from him, and that hurt his productivity.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Why does Josh get such a pass from the local media? Is it because he had a good rookie season when teamed with 2 other really good pass rushers? He had 7.5 sacks last year and 10 games with zero sacks. I just watched Osher and Sexton talk about Arden Key like he's a backup that you shouldn't expect too much out of, but he had a much better second half of the season last year than JA. I hope Josh has a good year this year because he has a lot of draft capital invested in him, but Travon Walker wasn't brought in to bolster Josh Allen's pass rush. He was brought in to be a legit 15 sack a year guy which Josh is not. Before any homers come in to flame, I believe Josh is a versatile football player but he gets credit like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player and he's not.

1. Josh Allen doesn't really get too much hype 
   
2. Josh Allen received no small amount of flack for his dip in production since the rookie yr
   
3. Walker may not have been drafted to "open up" Allen, but EVERY NFL team strives to have multiple edge rushers so that opponents can't focus protection on one guy
   
4. Because of number 3 - Allen SHOULD receive benefit from Walker's presence and there ain't a damn thing wrong with that 
   
5. Sack numbers are important, but you have to look at so many other things to get the full picture. Pressures, hurrys, QBKDs, TFL and more. 
   
6. Did you watch the buffalo game last year??? He practically took over the game.  Performances like that should increase with more talent in the front 7, plus an additional good cover guy in the secondary. (2 really if you count Cisco) 
   
7. If the Jags offense ever gives the front seven a freakin lead, you'll really see the potential of the pass rushers on hand.
   
8. Key was a very smart add as a rotational pass rusher who will likely see lots of snaps at 3-4 end. RRH, Fatukasi, and Key in the middle with Allen and Walker on the edges at OLB could be pretty darn good. (Hamilton spelling Fatukasi at times) And yes, Key could get looks at EDGE as well, but his ceiling is indeed lower than Josh Allen's IMO. I'm happy we have Key though. Good pick up.  
   
9. If Key gets more snaps at OLB than Allen or Walker - we probably have some issues to address. 
   
10. I've never heard anyone compare Allen to Bosa or Mack. Maybe his performance in a single game, but never his complete skill set.  
    

Rational comments are welcome and infrequent.   Bravo.

---

For some of y’all, this season can’t come soon enough, good lord!!!

---

Why does Josh get such a pass from the local media? Is it because he had a good rookie season when teamed with 2 other really good pass rushers? He had 7.5 sacks last year and 10 games with zero sacks. I just watched Osher and Sexton talk about Arden Key like he's a backup that you shouldn't expect too much out of, but he had a much better second half of the season last year than JA. I hope Josh has a good year this year because he has a lot of draft capital invested in him, but Travon Walker wasn't brought in to bolster Josh Allen's pass rush. He was brought in to be a legit 15 sack a year guy which Josh is not. Before any homers come in to flame, I believe Josh is a versatile football player but he gets credit like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player and he's not.

Calming down after releasing a string of expletives caused by technical issues that ovvurred without warning in the middle of my response to you.

Let me try this again.

Earlier, I echoed the argument that Allen had little to no help around him on defense, and that was compounded by him not having the luxury of playing with a lot of leads.

While you are probably too young to appreciate the historical examples I am citing to you, hopefully you will understand the point I am making.

Quite possibly the greatest defense of all time were the 1970s Steelers-known as the Steel Curtain.  They won 4 Super Bowls in a 6 year period.  Defensively, they had 6 Hall of Fame caliber players on defense, including:

DL Mean Joe Greene
DL L.C. Greenwood
LB Jack Lambert
LB Jack Ham
CB Mel Blount
S Donnie Shell

This doesn't even factor in 5 other Hall of Famers they had on offense.

QB Terry Bradshaw
RB Franco Harris
WR Lynn Swann
WR John Stallworth
C Mike Webster

Another candidate for the greatest defense of all time was the 1985 Bears defense, which featured three Hall of Famers and several other Pro Bowl/All Pro caliber players:

DE Richard Dent
DL Dan Hampton
DT Steve McMichael
LB Otis Wilson
LB Mike Singletary
LB Wilber Marshall
S Gary Fencik

On top of that, they had a defensive coordinator who had a scheme-called the 46 defense-that befuddled opposing offenses for the first half of the 1980s-coached by arguably the greatest Defensive coordinator of all time, Buddy Ryan.

Another candidate for greatest defense of all time was the 2000 Ravens.

That defense teatured stalwarts like

DE Michael McCrary
DT Tony Siragusa
DT Sam Adams
DE Rob Burnett
LB Peter Boulware
LB Ray Lewis
S Rod Woodson
CB Chris McAlister

The 2002 Tampa defense offered

DE Simeon Rice
DT Warren Sapp
LB Derrick Brooks
CB Ronde Barber
S John Lynch

Among others

The Legion of Boom Seahawks?

LB Bobby Wagner
LB KJ Wright
CB Richard Sherman
SS Kam Chancellor
FS Earl Thomas

From a pure football oerspective, there are at least 4 Hall of Fame candidates in that group.

Even if you haven't seen any of these guys play, if you go to profootballreference.com and look them up, you will se most of the plaeyers I listed above were pretty good if not great.

When considering the issues you posed above, ask yourself a few questions:

1.  Does Josh Allen currently have anyone opposite him on the defense that comes close to any of the guys listed above?

2.  Has Josh Allen played in a scheme that consistently allowed him to excel?

3.  Would any of those defenses listed above be considered among the best defenses ever if they didn't all have Hall of Fame caliber players feeding off each other and preventing opposing offenses from focusing their attention on one player?

Moral of the story:  The best players on the best defenses usally have good to great players surrounding them that enables them to shine.  When Josh Allen had a defense his rookie year that came close to replicating that, Josh Allen played statistically his best ball.  When those surrounding players left, Allen had nobody to take attention away from him, and that hurt his productivity.

Well Damn. Somebody just got Skoold...

NH3...

---

"AZANE"

Why does Josh get such a pass from the local media? Is it because he had a good rookie season when teamed with 2 other really good pass rushers? He had 7.5 sacks last year and 10 games with zero sacks. I just watched Osher and Sexton talk about Arden Key like he's a backup that you shouldn't expect too much out of, but he had a much better second half of the season last year than JA. I hope Josh has a good year this year because he has a lot of draft capital invested in him, but Travon Walker wasn't brought in to bolster Josh Allen's pass rush. He was brought in to be a legit 15 sack a year guy which Josh is not. Before any homers come in to flame, I believe Josh is a versatile football player but he gets credit like he's a Bosa brother or Khalil Mack type player and he's not.

You live under a bridge no?

---

A new broom always sweeps clean.