PLANdemic!!!

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Sorry, I misunderstood, you're bouncing between the original approval and the reformulations. I thought you were done with still trying to say that Comirnaty and the Pfizer BioNTech Covid 19 vaccines weren't the same thing like people were when it was approved by the FDA. They are the exact same chemically, they are marketed under different names just like most other drugs and vaccines compared to generics. You never cry about it when Varicella Zoster Vaxcine Recombinant, Adjuvanted gets sold as Shingrex, but boy do you get spun up when the politics gets involved.

As for your current misunderstanding of the boosters or reformulations, yes, human trials aren't used in reformulations for vaccines, that's pretty much the standard and why e.g. flu vaccines don't have human trials every year. Human trials were used correctly during the original development of the vaccine as they should've been, but less stringent testing is used for boosters or seasonal updates.

So let's recap, you read something that you believe confirms your understanding but you were merely right about an irrelevance in the operating procedure that you don't understand. People so badly want the government and health care to be trying to kill them that they'll believe just about anything to make it so.

3 years later and you rush to defend everything covid vaccine.  I see you question anything and everything else in the political forum except this one topic.  You may not know this but I respect the heck out of your opinion, but your rush to defend this one topic absolutely makes me suspicious as heck because of your profession.

I'd say it's hardly a rush, I'm just the only one "on this side of the argument" who takes the time to help clarify when stuff is presented as something it isn't. I wrote a couple responses in this thread that I ultimately deleted after posting because I didn't advance the discussion, it's just tiresome to go round and round with folks that already made up their minds. Some really basic stuff like how vaccine boosters are produced isn't all that controversial but some people are attempting to make it so now for political reasons. Stating what's been SOP for decades shouldn't be controversial, but on this topic it seems that it is.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

3 years later and you rush to defend everything covid vaccine.  I see you question anything and everything else in the political forum except this one topic.  You may not know this but I respect the heck out of your opinion, but your rush to defend this one topic absolutely makes me suspicious as heck because of your profession.

For the most part, experts aren't "out to get you." FSG falls squarely in this category. He believes in what he does and that's a good thing. I think, deep down, he knows the CDC has dropped the ball with this. I think, deep down, he knows the pharmaceutical industry has too much power. I think, deep down, he knows insurance and pharmaceuticals are in cahoots for profit. I just think he can't allow himself to question this too deeply because it unravels his whole profession. We need guys like FSG to understand how corrupt the health care industry has become and to speak out against it. However, those of us on the outside can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is a TON of misinformation out there, and I think it's a mistake to be too quick to want to dismantle it all. 

Personally, I think conservatives need to stop following the progressive playbook. We need to clean out the corruption and preserve the system that built all this, while being open to creating new checks and balances. Complete mistrust of the system will only lead to more destabilization, which is exactly what the powerful want. It works in their favor.

The CDC certainly did not perform well at all, I think we need a tremendous overhaul of the entire apparatus, but at least part of that failure is attributable to Don Quixote propagandists out here tilting at windmills. I agree that Big Pharm has corrupted the oversight process, but that doesn't mean that what they are doing is not beneficial. You confuse the two because of your stance against "Big Corp", so you're don't want to accept that a corrupted institution can still do good things. Yes, we should work on reforms and scrape out the corruption. Insurance and Big Pharm are in competition not cahoots, that's why Pharm subverts the insurance process at every turn and the insurance industry is progressing in to the the provision of care, so they can control the drugs prescribed entirely. It's just weird how you act like because I don't come to the same conclusions as you means I don't "think deeply" about these things out of some personal interest.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

For the most part, experts aren't "out to get you." FSG falls squarely in this category. He believes in what he does and that's a good thing. I think, deep down, he knows the CDC has dropped the ball with this. I think, deep down, he knows the pharmaceutical industry has too much power. I think, deep down, he knows insurance and pharmaceuticals are in cahoots for profit. I just think he can't allow himself to question this too deeply because it unravels his whole profession. We need guys like FSG to understand how corrupt the health care industry has become and to speak out against it. However, those of us on the outside can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is a TON of misinformation out there, and I think it's a mistake to be too quick to want to dismantle it all. 

Personally, I think conservatives need to stop following the progressive playbook. We need to clean out the corruption and preserve the system that built all this, while being open to creating new checks and balances. Complete mistrust of the system will only lead to more destabilization, which is exactly what the powerful want. It works in their favor.

The CDC certainly did not perform well at all, I think we need a tremendous overhaul of the entire apparatus, but at least part of that failure is attributable to Don Quixote propagandists out here tilting at windmills. I agree that Big Pharm has corrupted the oversight process, but that doesn't mean that what they are doing is not beneficial. You confuse the two because of your stance against "Big Corp", so you're don't want to accept that a corrupted institution can still do good things. Yes, we should work on reforms and scrape out the corruption. Insurance and Big Pharm are in competition not cahoots, that's why Pharm subverts the insurance process at every turn and the insurance industry is progressing in to the the provision of care, so they can control the drugs prescribed entirely. It's just weird how you act like because I don't come to the same conclusions as you means I don't "think deeply" about these things out of some personal interest.

Why would you try to frame that like I am anti-vax? There has been no confusion on my part. I have always followed the data. I have never said there was no benefit to vaccines. I have expressly stated the at-risk and elderly should take them. I have always been in favor of people voluntarily taking the vaccine. We need that data on healthy people. I would be 100% supportive of the vaccine if the data were transparent and clear, but it hasn't been that way from the start. There are a ton of questions that we can't answer that we should be able to answer, and the reason we can't answer those questions isn't because it's hard to determine, it's because the data has been obfuscated. That is unacceptable. 

Insurance and Big Pharma are not in competition with regards to this vaccine. They are both in on the take. Do they compete sometimes? Yes. But all of the worst travesties in novel medicine and vaccines have come when they cooperate, and you are seeing that with increasing frequency. Why? Because there's money to be made.

Also, I have never said you don't think DEEPLY about these things. You are clearly intelligent. You can think deeply about something and still be blinded by your own bias. You have a very obvious deficiency in this area. You are the closest thing this board has to an expert, and you have been repeatedly wrong in your talking points. This isn't because you're stupid. It's because the system you believe in has been wrong multiple times, and it's not because the science changed. The science was always available, it just wasn't being given a voice. 

Instead of acknowledging that, taking a step back, and examining how and why it's been broken, you fixate on the conspiracy voices and then falsely attribute that to others. The medical community, not just the CDC, has failed us by not being steadfast and rational. I know you guys were in the [BLEEP], but that's what you're supposed to do. You have to be able to keep that scientific hat on. I watched multiple meetings where fear and uncertainty caused doctors to spout emotional, anti-science non-sense, and nobody in the room had the balls to stand up and confront them. It's group think from the people we need to be above that. 

The proof is in the result, man.

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Let me put this another way. I think you and other doctors/admins care. I have no doubts about it. However, you have become reliant on a system that doesn't care the same way. It has different motives. So, when [BLEEP] hit the fan, you guys fell back on what you were taught and trusted that system to get us through it. You were desperate to protect people around you and instinctively lashed out against perceived threats, which often came in the form on non-experts questioning the data. Many of these people, were overzealous, certainly. But there was a good amount of information pouring in from all over the world that was suggesting we were taking the wrong approach, and we couldn't even have a discussion about it. That's almost never the right approach. And, as this is nearing to an end, it's the primary way the system failed us. Not having a proper discussion about the data.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pt-WRjQFoM&t=21s

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

https://twitter.com/Heart4Truth/status/1...34OiK9iOkw

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

For all the unvaccinated, it you need a blood transfusion, you will probably end up with the vaccine anyway... I wonder if I can store my own blood for me and my family in the event this is needed or happens...

https://twitter.com/LoveMyMJ69/status/15...O7465mB6_A

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

https://twitter.com/clairekeeley80/statu...hYFfMNjkIQ

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

https://twitter.com/clairekeeley80/statu...hYFfMNjkIQ

Do you actually know anything about Aseem Malhotra?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

https://twitter.com/clairekeeley80/statu...hYFfMNjkIQ

Do you actually know anything about anything?

ftfy

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Aseem Malhotra is a British cardiologist,[1] public health campaigner,[2] author of several books, and writer of articles in newspapers. He campaigns for people to reduce sugar in their diet,[3] to promote a low carb, high fat diet[4] and to reduce the overprescribing of medicines.[5] He was the first science director of Action on Sugar in 2014.[6][7] He has been listed as one of The Sunday Times 500 most influential people[3] and was twice recognized as one of the top 50 black and minority ethnic (BME) community member pioneers in the UK National Health Service by the Health Service Journal.[8][5] He is co-author of a book called The Pioppi Diet.[9]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aseem_Malhotra

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

The copy & paste tells me no lololol

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The copy & paste tells me no lololol

I know who he is now. As if I’m gonna know without looking him up. Did you know? Nooooo, so why are popping off at the mouth? Oh, you just wanna troll. Got it

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

The copy & paste tells me no lololol

I know who he is now. As if I’m gonna know without looking him up. Did you know? Nooooo, so why are popping off at the mouth? Oh, you just wanna troll.  Got it

Never claimed to know him lolol

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Well, FSG, is there something we're supposed to know about him?

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Well, FSG, is there something we're supposed to know about him?

Yes, he's shilling for his naturopathic books (again, it was about statin therapy last time, this time is viral infection). I actually support some of what Malhotra endorses (better diets, no refined sugar, too much medicine) but he then takes those good things, and kind of like a chiropractor, suddenly starts selling that they can fix everything. Just like Ryan Cole up there, he's a pathologist turned quack who is having his license revoked because he's on the conspiracy theory train and making big bank on the talking tour. Would you go to a pathologist for primary care? Yet he was conning people into seeing him for Covid and fraudulently billing Medicaid for his actual job in his lab. These guys aren't reliable sources and what they're saying isn't true.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The copy & paste tells me no lololol

I know who he is now. As if I’m gonna know without looking him up. Did you know? Nooooo, so why are popping off at the mouth? Oh, you just wanna troll.  Got it

So you don't see that just sharing something you found online that someone said that supports your beliefs isn't a good idea until you at least see who the person is? Can you at least agree that you should vet the source before you share it?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Well, FSG, is there something we're supposed to know about him?

Yes, he's shilling for his naturopathic books (again, it was about statin therapy last time, this time is viral infection). I actually support some of what Malhotra endorses (better diets, no refined sugar, too much medicine) but he then takes those good things, and kind of like a chiropractor, suddenly starts selling that they can fix everything. Just like Ryan Cole up there, he's a pathologist turned quack who is having his license revoked because he's on the conspiracy theory train and making big bank on the talking tour. Would you go to a pathologist for primary care? Yet he was conning people into seeing him for Covid and fraudulently billing Medicaid for his actual job in his lab. These guys aren't reliable sources and what they're saying isn't true.

Seems reliable to me, just because you don't like what a TRAINED Md says. He is a cardiologist.

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"If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you always got"

Yes, he's shilling for his naturopathic books (again, it was about statin therapy last time, this time is viral infection). I actually support some of what Malhotra endorses (better diets, no refined sugar, too much medicine) but he then takes those good things, and kind of like a chiropractor, suddenly starts selling that they can fix everything. Just like Ryan Cole up there, he's a pathologist turned quack who is having his license revoked because he's on the conspiracy theory train and making big bank on the talking tour. Would you go to a pathologist for primary care? Yet he was conning people into seeing him for Covid and fraudulently billing Medicaid for his actual job in his lab. These guys aren't reliable sources and what they're saying isn't true.

Seems reliable to me, just because you don't like what a TRAINED Md says. He is a cardiologist.

He's a cardiologist with an opinion so overwhelmingly in the minority of his profession with this stuff that he's been called out by his Medical Society publicly about it. I don't like what this quack is selling because it's not true and it takes advantage of common people who will fall for anything as long as it's got some element of anti-Establishment conspiracy theory attached to it.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato