First play. Play action pass to Kirk for 22. Book it.

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Run the ball and stop the run

Agreed. They have the worst run defense in the AFC. Second to only Chicago at the moment in the NFL. I would line the damn football up and run it until they can prove that they're capable of stopping it. 

I swear to God, man, if Doug comes out in that spread formation [BLEEP] and they go three and out? Somebody needs to hijack the play calling from him. He's a great coach, makes great adjustments, but, I feel like this team gets off to a slow start and I really feel like a lot of that boils down to overthinking it. 

At least script the first drive to be run, pass, run. If the first run is a 1st down? Go play action, bootleg, roll out left to Arnold or Engram. Those plays are there for the taking when they get the run game going. 

You have two competent and explosive runningbacks just itching to take over this offense. So let them do it and let Lawrence start operating what he's best at which is moving around, getting out of the pocket and making plays on the run with his arm.

If Doug can get the run game going early the Safeties and that defense will start cheating up and then we can start hitting them with the PA like you said.  We have to get the run game established early though and don't get away from it if we get stopped a few times early

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I love hearing the interviews with Pederson where he's talking about other teams. This week 1010 has been playing the interview where he says "You can see the Lovie fingerprint. He's likes doing this and that"

I'm sure our past coaches (Meyer aside) saw those things too, but it just gives you some confidence hearing him say it and knowing that he's thinking about how to attack it.

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Agreed. They have the worst run defense in the AFC. Second to only Chicago at the moment in the NFL. I would line the damn football up and run it until they can prove that they're capable of stopping it. 

I swear to God, man, if Doug comes out in that spread formation [BLEEP] and they go three and out? Somebody needs to hijack the play calling from him. He's a great coach, makes great adjustments, but, I feel like this team gets off to a slow start and I really feel like a lot of that boils down to overthinking it. 

At least script the first drive to be run, pass, run. If the first run is a 1st down? Go play action, bootleg, roll out left to Arnold or Engram. Those plays are there for the taking when they get the run game going. 

You have two competent and explosive runningbacks just itching to take over this offense. So let them do it and let Lawrence start operating what he's best at which is moving around, getting out of the pocket and making plays on the run with his arm.

If Doug can get the run game going early the Safeties and that defense will start cheating up and then we can start hitting them with the PA like you said.  We have to get the run game established early though and don't get away from it if we get stopped a few times early

Pederson likes to pass to set up the run, and not the other way around

If he was unwilling to adjust that strategy on a rainy day in Philadelphia, you can bet your [BLEEP] he's not going to do it at home versus the tinhorns

You can still run the ball quite a lot and quite effectively the way he does it, but it won't work if you don't complete passes at a high percentage early on.

That said - I hope he goes against his own philosophy and runs first this week

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If Doug can get the run game going early the Safeties and that defense will start cheating up and then we can start hitting them with the PA like you said.  We have to get the run game established early though and don't get away from it if we get stopped a few times early

Pederson likes to pass to set up the run, and not the other way around

If he was unwilling to adjust that strategy on a rainy day in Philadelphia, you can bet your [BLEEP] he's not going to do it at home versus the tinhorns

You can still run the ball quite a lot and quite effectively the way he does it, but it won't work if you don't complete passes at a high percentage early on.

That said - I hope he goes against his own philosophy and runs first this week

Indeed. Travis and JRob should combine for 40 touches.

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If Doug can get the run game going early the Safeties and that defense will start cheating up and then we can start hitting them with the PA like you said.  We have to get the run game established early though and don't get away from it if we get stopped a few times early

Pederson likes to pass to set up the run, and not the other way around

If he was unwilling to adjust that strategy on a rainy day in Philadelphia, you can bet your [BLEEP] he's not going to do it at home versus the tinhorns

You can still run the ball quite a lot and quite effectively the way he does it, but it won't work if you don't complete passes at a high percentage early on.

That said - I hope he goes against his own philosophy and runs first this week

I've been keeping up, I know what he's been doing.  Before the season he said game plans could change from game to game so hopefully this is one of them.

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Let JRob and Etienne cook.

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Pederson likes to pass to set up the run, and not the other way around

If he was unwilling to adjust that strategy on a rainy day in Philadelphia, you can bet your [BLEEP] he's not going to do it at home versus the tinhorns

You can still run the ball quite a lot and quite effectively the way he does it, but it won't work if you don't complete passes at a high percentage early on.

That said - I hope he goes against his own philosophy and runs first this week

I've been keeping up, I know what he's been doing.  Before the season he said game plans could change from game to game so hopefully this is one of them.

I hear you.

I'm just concerned about "game plan" versus overall "philosophy." 
This pass-to-run philosophy seems to be bigger and more comprehensive than his weekly game plans.

If we were going to change that philosophy, last week absolutely called for it, and he didn't adjust. 
Fingers crossed he gains some flexibility this week, I'm just concerned he's going to be stubborn on this issue.

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I've been keeping up, I know what he's been doing.  Before the season he said game plans could change from game to game so hopefully this is one of them.

I hear you.

I'm just concerned about "game plan" versus overall "philosophy." 
This pass-to-run philosophy seems to be bigger and more comprehensive than his weekly game plans.

If we were going to change that philosophy, last week absolutely called for it, and he didn't adjust. 
Fingers crossed he gains some flexibility this week, I'm just concerned he's going to be stubborn on this issue.

That's the thing. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. I am big believer in adapt or die. If he goes out and allows Lawrence to shoot from the hip and he's driving it right into the end zone? That's fine. Nobody is going to complain if it's working. But, when it's NOT working? That's when his philosophy is going to start getting called into question. It's already been called into question, not ironically, during their two losses. 

He knows that though. However, he seems a little bit like a walking contradiction. He never really committed to the ground game in Philadelphia. This is a fact. He never had a single 1,000 yard rusher during his tenure there, and he had a nice little trio of backs that would net you a total of 1200 - 1500 yards on the year. 

However, he didn't really have the firepower at that position in my opinion that he has here in Robinson and Etienne. He also is not utilizing the TE position in the passing game as much as I would have thought at the beginning of his hiring. It's been a little interesting so far. Just waiting to see when some of that starts to come into play. 

I think at this point too they might want to consider using Agnew out of the backfield as a runner if Connor is not going to fit that 3rd role from the backfield.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I think at this point too they might want to consider using Agnew out of the backfield as a runner if Connor is not going to fit that 3rd role from the backfield.

I'd venture that Hasty has already supplanted Snoopy.

Hopefully Connor can take a page out of Chiasson's book and learn to play special teams.

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I hear you.

I'm just concerned about "game plan" versus overall "philosophy." 
This pass-to-run philosophy seems to be bigger and more comprehensive than his weekly game plans.

If we were going to change that philosophy, last week absolutely called for it, and he didn't adjust. 
Fingers crossed he gains some flexibility this week, I'm just concerned he's going to be stubborn on this issue.

That's the thing. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. I am big believer in adapt or die. If he goes out and allows Lawrence to shoot from the hip and he's driving it right into the end zone? That's fine. Nobody is going to complain if it's working. But, when it's NOT working? That's when his philosophy is going to start getting called into question. It's already been called into question, not ironically, during their two losses. 

He knows that though. However, he seems a little bit like a walking contradiction. He never really committed to the ground game in Philadelphia. This is a fact. He never had a single 1,000 yard rusher during his tenure there, and he had a nice little trio of backs that would net you a total of 1200 - 1500 yards on the year. 

However, he didn't really have the firepower at that position in my opinion that he has here in Robinson and Etienne. He also is not utilizing the TE position in the passing game as much as I would have thought at the beginning of his hiring. It's been a little interesting so far. Just waiting to see when some of that starts to come into play. 

I think at this point too they might want to consider using Agnew out of the backfield as a runner if Connor is not going to fit that 3rd role from the backfield.

Regarding backs and their usage in Philly, he did manage to get his backs a combined 90-100 total targets per season even when he didn't always feed them carries. So they were pretty involved.
Unfortunately - This really just serves to support the theory that he passes to run and may not deviate from it. 

At this point - I'm just hoping that the offense can execute the early down passing strategy in the first quarter to open up the run.
Hoping Doug suddenly commits to the run feels like a pipe dream after the Philly outing, but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised. 

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All of this said, I have a lot of faith in Doug. 

So many coaches talk about tailoring a playbook to their available talent, but they can't do it.
He's done it. 

So many coaches talk about game-planning for each opponent. They can't do it well enough.
Outside of this philosophy we are discussing rearing its head, he has indeed created mismatches very effectively from week to week. 

So many coaches talk about culture, character, and team-first mentality. Most can't figure out how to embed it in their roster and locker room. He has done it and done it quickly. 

I just want him to run the [BLEEP] ball this week! 

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Fatuous ruled out for Sun

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Fortner and Bartch might have their easy matchup all year. If they have a bad game it's time to start looking at Lanen and Shatley

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Hamilton is going to have to step up.

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Fatuous ruled out for Sun

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Fortner and Bartch might have their easy matchup all year.  If they have a bad game it's time to start looking at Lanen and Shatley

The only way Fortner isn't playing is if he gets injured. Shatley isn't good, otherwise he would have beat Fortner out from the beginning. You started the rookie at center so you ride with him through his ups and downs, which he is definitely going to have as a rookie.

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I think at this point too they might want to consider using Agnew out of the backfield as a runner if Connor is not going to fit that 3rd role from the backfield.

I'd venture that Hasty has already supplanted Snoopy.

Hopefully Connor can take a page out of Chiasson's book and learn to play special teams.

Snoop Connor was never really part of the plan it would appear. 

He was insurance in case Robinson was not ready, but he was more than ready. Looked like they tried Connor a bit early on but realized they just didn't need him. JR was capable of taking on a full load.

From what I've seen, this new involvement of Hasty is nothing more than a small handful of plays designed to utilize his speed around the edge. I don't know if it signifies much about Connor.

It's a looooonnnngg season. We may still yet discover what Connor is capable of in a real NFL game before it's all said and done. 
Too soon to assume much IMO.

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I'd venture that Hasty has already supplanted Snoopy.

Hopefully Connor can take a page out of Chiasson's book and learn to play special teams.

Snoop Connor was never really part of the plan it would appear. 

He was insurance in case Robinson was not ready, but he was more than ready. Looked like they tried Connor a bit early on but realized they just didn't need him. JR was capable of taking on a full load.

From what I've seen, this new involvement of Hasty is nothing more than a small handful of plays designed to utilize his speed around the edge. I don't know if it signifies much about Connor.

It's a looooonnnngg season. We may still yet discover what Connor is capable of in a real NFL game before it's all said and done. 
Too soon to assume much IMO.

Still kinda sad that they traded up for Snoop, only to replace him with a guy they claimed on Waivers. I know it's early still, but it's definitely looking like wasted picks.

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Snoop has been underwhelming so far. However, we have not seen much out of Etienne either. Hopefully this is the game that changes

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If Doug can get the run game going early the Safeties and that defense will start cheating up and then we can start hitting them with the PA like you said.  We have to get the run game established early though and don't get away from it if we get stopped a few times early

Pederson likes to pass to set up the run, and not the other way around

If he was unwilling to adjust that strategy on a rainy day in Philadelphia, you can bet your [BLEEP] he's not going to do it at home versus the tinhorns

You can still run the ball quite a lot and quite effectively the way he does it, but it won't work if you don't complete passes at a high percentage early on.

That said - I hope he goes against his own philosophy and runs first this week

What a bad take.  I’m starting to think you know far less about football than you claim.  You certainly know far less about Pederson’s actual play calling than you claim.

The Philly game, the game that everyone is so sure Pederson was a pass happy manic in, was unarguably a ‘run first’ game. The game fell apart on passing downs.  This has already been analysed. https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...pid1490269

Of the 21 down sequences in the game, JAX started the sequence with a run 11 times, or 52% of the time.

If you discount the final three drives of the game where JAX had to take big chances to catch up so we’re passing nine of ten plays, then Pederson started down sequences with a run ten of fifteen times, or 67% of the time.  Pederson didn’t change his game plan until the passing game’s underperformance forced him to abandon the run.


To imply that Pederson is a stubborn pass first coach off the Philly contest is simple nonsense and shows an inclination to form opinions based on sentiment and not fact.  While great for flaming in Internet forums, it’s of little substantive value.

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In todays NFL you gotta pass to set up the run. The Texans are not very good at stopping the run. Robinson and Etienne should have a big day. 100 each would be nice with a couple of tubs.

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Pederson likes to pass to set up the run, and not the other way around

If he was unwilling to adjust that strategy on a rainy day in Philadelphia, you can bet your [BLEEP] he's not going to do it at home versus the tinhorns

You can still run the ball quite a lot and quite effectively the way he does it, but it won't work if you don't complete passes at a high percentage early on.

That said - I hope he goes against his own philosophy and runs first this week

What a bad take.  I’m starting to think you know far less about football than you claim.  You certainly know far less about Pederson’s actual play calling than you claim.

The Philly game, the game that everyone is so sure Pederson was a pass happy manic in, was unarguably a ‘run first’ game. The game fell apart on passing downs.  This has already been analysed. https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...pid1490269

Of the 21 down sequences in the game, JAX started the sequence with a run 11 times, or 52% of the time.

If you discount the final three drives of the game where JAX had to take big chances to catch up so we’re passing nine of ten plays, then Pederson started down sequences with a run ten of fifteen times, or 67% of the time.  Pederson didn’t change his game plan until the passing game’s underperformance forced him to abandon the run.


To imply that Pederson is a stubborn pass first coach off the Philly contest is simple nonsense and shows an inclination to form opinions based on sentiment and not fact.  While great for flaming in Internet forums, it’s of little substantive value.

LOL

You don't ever get tired of this "you don't know football" schtick, huh? 

Pederson's stated scheme preference is less about the Philly game and more about the words from his own mouth as well as anyone who has broken down his coaching over the years. (Our own J. Lageman included)  He's talked openly in different interviews about calling the run off of the pass. 

The Philly game was balanced in favor of the pass. 23 attempts - 19 runs - 16 of those to the RBs
not bad - just not enough

The biggest issue wasn't what he did on first down, but that they simply didn't get enough possession time to spread the ball around, and secondly that he chose not to run in situations it may have been a better call. 

39 offensive snaps is not enough, and 16 carries for your backs is not enough either. 
I haven't broken down that individual game analytically at all - just a casual watch on NFL+ all 22 yesterday. 
If anything - I'm glad they ran that much on first down - even if it wasn't enough - but it doesn't alter Pederson's known and stated philosophy. He's just unequivocally not a run first guy.

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