Our WRs have been getting separation.  Trevor has missed them and overthrown them too many times this season.  There has also been a number of plays where a WR is wide open and Trevor doesnt see them.    Pickens is a deep threat, Trevor's accuracy on deep balls isn't very good.  He is much more accurate on the shorter passes.  If we drafted Pickens we wouldn't be any better than we are now on offense and we would be worse on defense because we wouldn't have Lloyd.  Trevor needs to wok on his accuracy more than we need another WR.  It doesn't matter what WR you have if you can't make accurate throws

https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...LPwH8WoiDg

I just disagree. Trevor does need to be more accurate. No doubt. But there are still major issues with our outside receivers.

Every game this year Trevor has missed wide open receivers. In the NFL you just can’t miss those throws on a regular basis.  He missed a lot of throws yesterday, the Wash game, and the game last week.  Way too many inaccurate throws.  The better QBs in this league doesn’t miss that many throws.

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Our WRs have been getting separation.  Trevor has missed them and overthrown them too many times this season.  There has also been a number of plays where a WR is wide open and Trevor doesnt see them.    Pickens is a deep threat, Trevor's accuracy on deep balls isn't very good.  He is much more accurate on the shorter passes.  If we drafted Pickens we wouldn't be any better than we are now on offense and we would be worse on defense because we wouldn't have Lloyd.  Trevor needs to wok on his accuracy more than we need another WR.  It doesn't matter what WR you have if you can't make accurate throws

https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...LPwH8WoiDg

I just disagree. Trevor does need to be more accurate. No doubt. But there are still major issues with our outside receivers.

https://twitter.com/clayharbs82/status/1...rrKTgO0Jsg

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Our WRs have been getting separation.  Trevor has missed them and overthrown them too many times this season.  There has also been a number of plays where a WR is wide open and Trevor doesnt see them.    Pickens is a deep threat, Trevor's accuracy on deep balls isn't very good.  He is much more accurate on the shorter passes.  If we drafted Pickens we wouldn't be any better than we are now on offense and we would be worse on defense because we wouldn't have Lloyd.  Trevor needs to wok on his accuracy more than we need another WR.  It doesn't matter what WR you have if you can't make accurate throws

https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...LPwH8WoiDg

I just disagree. Trevor does need to be more accurate. No doubt. But there are still major issues with our outside receivers.

He was just missing, it's not because nobody is open


https://twitter.com/clayharbs82/status/1...rrKTgO0Jsg

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This is a competitive team.. Competitive teams lose sometimes, competitive teams win sometimes.

Dominant teams rarely lose.. This team isn't dominate, yet..

Funny, just a short few months ago, most people on this board were DYING for this team to be competitive. Now that we have it, ya'll whine like little [BLEEP].. Losses are going to happen.

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https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...LPwH8WoiDg

I just disagree. Trevor does need to be more accurate. No doubt. But there are still major issues with our outside receivers.

Every game this year Trevor has missed wide open receivers. In the NFL you just can’t miss those throws on a regular basis.  He missed a lot of throws yesterday, the Wash game, and the game last week.  Way too many inaccurate throws.  The better QBs in this league doesn’t miss that many throws.

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https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...LPwH8WoiDg

I just disagree. Trevor does need to be more accurate. No doubt. But there are still major issues with our outside receivers.

https://twitter.com/clayharbs82/status/1...rrKTgO0Jsg

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https://twitter.com/_John_Shipley/status...LPwH8WoiDg

I just disagree. Trevor does need to be more accurate. No doubt. But there are still major issues with our outside receivers.

He was just missing, it's not because nobody is open


https://twitter.com/clayharbs82/status/1...rrKTgO0Jsg

Hello. I didn't disagree with you.

Both things are true. Trevor needs to be more accurate AND this team needs true outside receiver. Zay Jones isn't it and Marvin is old.

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The only thing bringing a true X WR here with Lawrence at QB will do is piss them tf off.

then all you all will be hating and bashing the WR because he’s frustrated with the terrible QB

Are you Zach Wilson's Mom's friend? That explains so much

No I’m a person that remembers a time when the world was screaming “Trevor should avoid the jets” was the narrative and find it comical where we are now

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Every game this year Trevor has missed wide open receivers. In the NFL you just can’t miss those throws on a regular basis.  He missed a lot of throws yesterday, the Wash game, and the game last week.  Way too many inaccurate throws.  The better QBs in this league doesn’t miss that many throws.

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https://twitter.com/clayharbs82/status/1...rrKTgO0Jsg

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He was just missing, it's not because nobody is open


https://twitter.com/clayharbs82/status/1...rrKTgO0Jsg

Hello. I didn't disagree with you.

Both things are true. Trevor needs to be more accurate AND this team needs true outside receiver. Zay Jones isn't it and Marvin is old.

Sure it would be nice to have a Justing Jefferson, Jamar Chase, or a Adams but our WRs are good enough you just have to make accurate throws.   Marvin had over 100 yards yesterday.

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Are you Zach Wilson's Mom's friend? That explains so much

No I’m a person that remembers a time when the world was screaming “Trevor should avoid the jets” was the narrative and find it comical where we are now

Where are we now? 

From a QB perspective: 

We had a promising rookie season wasted by an inept coach and not-far-behind-him staff.

This season:
We've seen a good game with a few costly mistakes.
Two excellent games with very few mistakes.
One bad weather game with too many mistakes.
And one productive game with too many costly mistakes and suspect play-calling. 

Where is that exactly? 

Feels like we're seeing a young QB find some success in his second year even though consistency still eludes him. 

Improvement rarely shows up as a perfect 45 degree angle on a chart. There are bound to be some peaks and valleys. 

Of course, we won't see you around during any of the peaks, right?

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But again, if he just places the ball HERE, it's a potential TD or at worst incomplete. That's what I meant was it wasn't a terrible decision but a terrible throw. 

Even if he put the ball there Bradbury was still there to make a play.  That would of been a very tough throw under the weather conditions.  Agnew was underneath with Kirk in front of him for a blocker.  It was a horrible decision and he threw it to the wrong WR with Bradbury right there.  Agnew maybe would of scored if Kirk can block Bradbury

This is at release on the INT. He's expecting Bradbury to follow Marvin back inside leaving Kirk open. Again this wasn't a bad decision, Bradbury made a great play and it was a bad throw. Agnew was wide open underneath as well for at minimum the easy first down.

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Everyone here would take Josh Allen in a heartbeat right? Does anyone remember just how awful he was his first few years? Overthrows, bad ints, fumbles, sacks. He was BAD. Until he wasn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqxBYJD3_A8

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Everyone here would take Josh Allen in a heartbeat right? Does anyone remember just how awful he was his first few years? Overthrows, bad ints, fumbles, sacks. He was BAD. Until he wasn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqxBYJD3_A8

I don't think it's fair to compare him to Josh Allen, dude is the best QB in the league right now imo.   For every Josh Allen there are 1000 QBs that aren't.  Trevor doesn't have to be the best QB in the league, just play good smart football.

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Allen wasn't bad his 2nd year, he was starting to come into his own and you could see it. This thread was made in his 2nd year

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...ight=Allen

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Everyone here would take Josh Allen in a heartbeat right? Does anyone remember just how awful he was his first few years? Overthrows, bad ints, fumbles, sacks. He was BAD. Until he wasn't.

He was also 22 when he took his 1st NFL snap.

That said, Josh Allen did rush for 1200 yards in his 1st 2 years as well. Trevor rushed for 330 yards last year and is on track for rushing for 225 yards this year.  I don't want him to get injured but I think running for a few 1st down would keep the defense honest.  Right now, there is essentially no thread of Trevor running so the D doesn't need to dedicate anyone to spying Trevor in the event of a run.

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Everyone here would take Josh Allen in a heartbeat right? Does anyone remember just how awful he was his first few years? Overthrows, bad ints, fumbles, sacks. He was BAD. Until he wasn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqxBYJD3_A8

I don't think it's fair to compare him to Josh Allen, dude is the best QB in the league right now imo.   For every Josh Allen there are 1000 QBs that aren't.  Trevor doesn't have to be the best QB in the league, just play good smart football.

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Allen wasn't bad his 2nd year, he was starting to come into his own and you could see it.  This thread was made in his 2nd year

https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...ight=Allen

I'm mainly comparing his throwing ability. Allen was awful.

He also made some BAD throws and ball security issues year 2 and year 3 even.

He also had phenomenal, consistent, coaching from day one until just this year he has a new OC. This is what sets Trevor's development apart. If Allen was in Jax with Marrone then Urban do you think he'd be any good? I know TL didn't have Marrone but he was coach when Allen was drafted

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Time to call the Panthers about DJ Moore.

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Time to call the Panthers about DJ Moore.

I'm onboard. Make it so.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The biggest concern about Lawrence is that he had the cleanest pocket he's ever going to get in the NFL during the Texans game.  If you watch the game again, you'll notice that the Texans never blitzed and their front four almost never got any immediate pressure on him.  In addition they played almost completely in a cover 2 scheme, with (from what I saw) no real misdirection in their zone schemes.

Trevor did hit a few throws right down the middle (a cover two weakness,) but far too often Trevor consistently locked on to one receiver (locking on gives the defense a huge edge in a zone scheme as they're staring at your head), was unable to throw any one open (an absolute MUST against a zone scheme), and threw a few errant passes that had the possibility of being intercepted.  (There was a pass that would have been intercepted if the pass wasn't so far off the mark.)

Most QBs in the top half of the league would have carved up such a simple defense with all the time in the world in the pocket.  Lawrence seemed to play with 'ghost' happy feet, that contributed to his sailing the ball (even on some of the completions.)

Lawrence HAS to improve his ability to read the defense pre- and post-snap (not that it was difficult in this game,) improve his ability to cycle through receivers quickly (cause it won't get easier with pressure,) and learn to throw to holes in the zone before his receivers get there.


PS. If I recall correctly, even if Walker hadn't made the stupidest play of the game by roughing the QB, I believe there was defensive holding call that was declined.  So it would have been first down regardless (minus 10 yards.)

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

The biggest concern about Lawrence is that he had the cleanest pocket he's ever going to get in the NFL during the Texans game.  If you watch the game again, you'll notice that the Texans never blitzed and their front four almost never got any immediate pressure on him.  In addition they played almost completely in a cover 2 scheme, with (from what I saw) no real misdirection in their zone schemes.

Trevor did hit a few throws right down the middle (a cover two weakness,) but far too often Trevor consistently locked on to one receiver (locking on gives the defense a huge edge in a zone scheme as they're staring at your head), was unable to throw any one open (an absolute MUST against a zone scheme), and threw a few errant passes that had the possibility of being intercepted.  (There was a pass that would have been intercepted if the pass wasn't so far off the mark.)

Most QBs in the top half of the league would have carved up such a simple defense with all the time in the world in the pocket.  Lawrence seemed to play with 'ghost' happy feet, that contributed to his sailing the ball (even on some of the completions.)

Lawrence HAS to improve his ability to read the defense pre- and post-snap (not that it was difficult in this game,) improve his ability to cycle through receivers quickly (cause it won't get easier with pressure,) and learn to throw to holes in the zone before his receivers get there.


PS. If I recall correctly, even if Walker hadn't made the stupidest play of the game by roughing the QB, I believe there was defensive holding call that was declined.  So it would have been first down regardless (minus 10 yards.)

It was offsides which would have made it 3rd and 15. 

However, the rest of your points are sound. Lawrence had the best or 2nd best rating from a clean pocket entering this game. Something was off from the start and I have no idea what it was.

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Time to call the Panthers about DJ Moore.

You might be on to something, who knows

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The biggest concern about Lawrence is that he had the cleanest pocket he's ever going to get in the NFL during the Texans game.  If you watch the game again, you'll notice that the Texans never blitzed and their front four almost never got any immediate pressure on him.  In addition they played almost completely in a cover 2 scheme, with (from what I saw) no real misdirection in their zone schemes.

Trevor did hit a few throws right down the middle (a cover two weakness,) but far too often Trevor consistently locked on to one receiver (locking on gives the defense a huge edge in a zone scheme as they're staring at your head), was unable to throw any one open (an absolute MUST against a zone scheme), and threw a few errant passes that had the possibility of being intercepted.  (There was a pass that would have been intercepted if the pass wasn't so far off the mark.)

Most QBs in the top half of the league would have carved up such a simple defense with all the time in the world in the pocket.  Lawrence seemed to play with 'ghost' happy feet, that contributed to his sailing the ball (even on some of the completions.)

Lawrence HAS to improve his ability to read the defense pre- and post-snap (not that it was difficult in this game,) improve his ability to cycle through receivers quickly (cause it won't get easier with pressure,) and learn to throw to holes in the zone before his receivers get there.


PS. If I recall correctly, even if Walker hadn't made the stupidest play of the game by roughing the QB, I believe there was defensive holding call that was declined.  So it would have been first down regardless (minus 10 yards.)

Good assessment and fair assessment from top down on offense. I agree. I think Lawrence is in a lot of trouble if he can't sort out the deep ball accuracy issues. He's also just not a pocket passer to me. I feel like his best plays come from out of the bootlegs and when he's out of the pocket. 

Pederson is still learning what he can or cannot do I guess. It's five games into the year. You're now 2 - 3 and looking at yet another divisional opponent. It's not going to be the same game that it was in Jacksonville back in week 2. 

My hope is that Pederson starts to come back down to earth a bit, starts to dim that former QB mentality of his and realizes that it's perfectly FINE to take the football out of your QB's hands once he gets your team into the red zone. 

I really think the interception in the Philadelphia game and the interception in yesterday's game are very telling. Lawrence is struggling to make the correct reads, gets happy feet too soon from the pocket, etc. 

There needs to be a reconciliation of all of this by now going into week six. Lawrence is 11th in pass attempts and he's 22nd in completion percentage. Not sure what the specifics are but his deep ball leaves a lot to be desired. Robinson is 16th and Etienne is 38th in rushing attempts. 

Need to conceptually put together something that truly highlights Lawrence's ability to hit the easier passes, screen passes & swing passes, get away from the deep ball for a little bit, you don't completely cut it out of the gameplan but you have to get Lawrence in and out of the pocket, more bootleg, more play action, etc. 

Robinson and Etienne need more receiving opportunities. As does Dan Arnold and Evan Engram. Which we saw more of in yesterday's game. Including Manhertz. So, there's room for change, there's room for improvement. 

Walker's penalty was bad. I think the other penalty would have been off sides or encroachment. Which would have made it maybe 3rd and 10 or 15 instead of a new set of downs.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Well, anyone can see our QB lost us the game for the 2nd week in a row. 

What would it take for you to blame Trevor?

Yea Trevor hurt us at times today. So did Taylor's holding that took away a catch that would of put us in a 1st and goal situation. So did Walker's dumb [BLEEP] penalty. So did the drops. So did Doug's play calling at times. I'll never understand lining up in shotgun when you need 1 yard.

I'm sure this wont be Lawrence's last bad game, but just one person simply doesn't lose a football game.

This is healthy.
No reason for a game to get the heart rate on blast. My screaming into the void ain't gonna make any player better, or change the playbook, or convince my family that I am better at 'football fan' than they are.

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The biggest concern about Lawrence is that he had the cleanest pocket he's ever going to get in the NFL during the Texans game.  If you watch the game again, you'll notice that the Texans never blitzed and their front four almost never got any immediate pressure on him.  In addition they played almost completely in a cover 2 scheme, with (from what I saw) no real misdirection in their zone schemes.

Trevor did hit a few throws right down the middle (a cover two weakness,) but far too often Trevor consistently locked on to one receiver (locking on gives the defense a huge edge in a zone scheme as they're staring at your head), was unable to throw any one open (an absolute MUST against a zone scheme), and threw a few errant passes that had the possibility of being intercepted.  (There was a pass that would have been intercepted if the pass wasn't so far off the mark.)

Most QBs in the top half of the league would have carved up such a simple defense with all the time in the world in the pocket.  Lawrence seemed to play with 'ghost' happy feet, that contributed to his sailing the ball (even on some of the completions.)

Lawrence HAS to improve his ability to read the defense pre- and post-snap (not that it was difficult in this game,) improve his ability to cycle through receivers quickly (cause it won't get easier with pressure,) and learn to throw to holes in the zone before his receivers get there.


PS. If I recall correctly, even if Walker hadn't made the stupidest play of the game by roughing the QB, I believe there was defensive holding call that was declined.  So it would have been first down regardless (minus 10 yards.)

It was offsides which would have made it 3rd and 15. 

However, the rest of your points are sound. Lawrence had the best or 2nd best rating from a clean pocket entering this game. Something was off from the start and I have no idea what it was.

It's all mental. He was pressing a lot and forcing a lot of passes early. When you're coming off a game that you lost on the road by single handedly turning it over five times? It has an effect on you. 

I think it's cute when the commentators keep saying he moves on, etc. That's just the professional verbalism that you're supposed to say in those situations. Actions speak louder than words. 

It's pretty obvious this kid needs a week or two where he's not throwing the football all over the football field. Completely up to Pederson. Ego's need to be checked and put into check this week if this team has any chance at getting to 3 - 3 and starting with a clean slate again.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Time to call the Panthers about DJ Moore.

You might be on to something, who knows

You guys meant calling Panthers about Darnold, right?

That would be a bad idea.

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