Lol the qb with 24 turnovers and 24 tds has done nothing in terms of making me a fool, his production has been worse than i would have even expected from my opinion of him. He played well last week but your gonna need that to start being the norm before you can tell me otherwise. I guess we can blame the o line tho even tho hes the least sacked qb in the league.

*Most pressured but least sacked.

Hes not even close to the most pressured. https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

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Not if he flames out in three or four years due to injury. Which often happens to reckless running backs. 
He's already missed a full year. 

I'm thrilled he is playing so well, and hope he ends up in the Jags ring of honor, but I'm not writing the guys biography after 3 starts. 

I disliked the pick, but I hope he beats the odds and makes me a fool to doubt it. 
I mean, he's not going to make me the fool that Trevor Lawrence is making of you because I never bashed the guy, never told the board there was no hope for him, and never insulted everyone who disagreed with me about it, but you know, to each his own I suppose.

Lol the qb with 24 turnovers and 24 tds has done nothing in terms of making me a fool, his production has been worse than i would have even expected from my opinion of him. He played well last week but your gonna need that to start being the norm before you can tell me otherwise. I guess we can blame the o line tho even tho hes the least sacked qb in the league.

Sack numbers to not exonerate an OL. Especially with a young, athletic, mobile QB. He escapes sacks, and he has to do so too frequently. 

Also, if you could read and comprehend, you'd be able to understand that I haven't been blaming Trevor's mistakes on the OL, I've been blaming the low frequency of downfield passing on their inability to protect. Specifically LG and C with LT not far behind. 

Trevor has his work to do on achieving consistency, but all the good indicators are in place. And yes, he's made your driveling troll-job look incredibly foolish.

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Lol the qb with 24 turnovers and 24 tds has done nothing in terms of making me a fool, his production has been worse than i would have even expected from my opinion of him. He played well last week but your gonna need that to start being the norm before you can tell me otherwise. I guess we can blame the o line tho even tho hes the least sacked qb in the league.

Sack numbers to not exonerate an OL. Especially with a young, athletic, mobile QB. He escapes sacks, and he has to do so too frequently. 

Also, if you could read and comprehend, you'd be able to understand that I haven't been blaming Trevor's mistakes on the OL, I've been blaming the low frequency of downfield passing on their inability to protect. Specifically LG and C with LT not far behind. 

Trevor has his work to do on achieving consistency, but all the good indicators are in place. And yes, he's made your driveling troll-job look incredibly foolish.

Trolling would imply that im saying something i dont even really believe in simply to annoy others. In reality the only trolling going on has been the people who discount my truth. I said before he came into the league he was inaccurate with a tendencies to airmail passes, this has been proven. I said that he shrinks under pressure (game situation aka in the clutch) this has been proven, i said he makes boneheaded decisions, this has been proven. I never said that he cant get better, im not jaguarmvp i never said he was a bust.. yet here we are again talking about the qb when the conversation was about travis etn. Who is the best player on our team and now the mods who claim im trolling because i have legitimate concerns about the qb are trying to tell me that having a prolific rb is pointless when we coulda drafted a bum like Christian barmore lmao

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There you go again, "your truth", lol.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Sack numbers to not exonerate an OL. Especially with a young, athletic, mobile QB. He escapes sacks, and he has to do so too frequently. 

Also, if you could read and comprehend, you'd be able to understand that I haven't been blaming Trevor's mistakes on the OL, I've been blaming the low frequency of downfield passing on their inability to protect. Specifically LG and C with LT not far behind. 

Trevor has his work to do on achieving consistency, but all the good indicators are in place. And yes, he's made your driveling troll-job look incredibly foolish.

Trolling would imply that im saying something i dont even really believe in simply to annoy others. In reality the only trolling going on has been the people who discount my truth. I said before he came into the league he was inaccurate with a tendencies to airmail passes, this has been proven. I said that he shrinks under pressure (game situation aka in the clutch) this has been proven, i said he makes boneheaded decisions, this has been proven. I never said that he cant get better, im not jaguarmvp i never said he was a bust.. yet here we are again talking about the qb when the conversation was about travis etn. Who is the best player on our team and now the mods who claim im trolling because i have legitimate concerns about the qb are trying to tell me that having a prolific rb is pointless when we coulda drafted a bum like Christian barmore lmao

a - no one ever said having a prolific RB is pointless 

b - the things you're claiming as "proven" just illustrate your inability to grasp the nature of a young QB's development 

c- if you'd have had enough patience and understanding to let the kid show what he can do in a stable system you wouldn't have had to go into full-troll-mode to defend your ridiculously premature conclusions

d - back on topic - ETN is very good

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Trolling would imply that im saying something i dont even really believe in simply to annoy others. In reality the only trolling going on has been the people who discount my truth. I said before he came into the league he was inaccurate with a tendencies to airmail passes, this has been proven. I said that he shrinks under pressure (game situation aka in the clutch) this has been proven, i said he makes boneheaded decisions, this has been proven. I never said that he cant get better, im not jaguarmvp i never said he was a bust.. yet here we are again talking about the qb when the conversation was about travis etn. Who is the best player on our team and now the mods who claim im trolling because i have legitimate concerns about the qb are trying to tell me that having a prolific rb is pointless when we coulda drafted a bum like Christian barmore lmao

a - no one ever said having a prolific RB is pointless 

b - the things you're claiming as "proven" just illustrate your inability to grasp the nature of a young QB's development 

c- if you'd have had enough patience and understanding to let the kid show what he can do in a stable system you wouldn't have had to go into full-troll-mode to defend your ridiculously premature conclusions

d - back on topic - ETN is very good

When you have an issue at the collegiate level, and then continue to have that issue at the pro level it's not an inability to grasp the nature of a young QBs development, it's having 2 working eyes and having actually studied the tape and making an assessment. When you have a clean pocket and a WR standing free and you simply throw the ball 5 yards over his head that's an accuracy problem not an adjustment to the pro game problem. 

Again, never said he can't fix those issues but it's become evident to anyone who looked into his college days past a 10 minute highlight video that he still struggles with the same issues he had before he became a jaguar. I trust my eyes when it comes to evaluating a quarterback as evident from Sundays game when I said it was his most impressive game as a pro despite him only throwing for 200 yards and a single TD. The next day PFF grades came out and wouldn't you know, it was his highest grade of his career.

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There you go again, "your truth", lol.

I pointed out his issues in college, back when the Jets were the odds on favorite to take him. The main issues of inconsistent accuracy, inconsistent decision making and the tendency to fold in clutch situations. This was the absolute sum of my opinion on him. The only reason I even continued to bring it up is because of people like yourself telling me I don't know what i'm talking about. And the only reason I talk about it now is because even after he's proven me right with his poor play I still hear the same 3 people saying the same nonsense. 


I'm done talking about it, I get it you didn't see anything Trevor did before he came here outside of some silly highlight video on youtube so to you, all you see is a guy "Adjusting to the NFL level" while anyone who watched a couple full games of his at Clemson know the mistakes he's making aren't new. 


That being said, hope he puts the work in to correct the worst parts of his game so that he can be that franchise guy, but it's anything but set in stone until we start seeing good games in stretches, and not once every 4 weeks.

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Wow, you're ready to label a guy with a handful of starts that regularly gets run down from behind as elite while also [BLEEP] on a 23 year old QB anytime he shows growth struggles?

ETN has out performed every RB in the NFL in terms of effeciency, he has the highest YPC in the league and also had the most 40+ yard runs whilst having much less attempts than the other guys around him. ETN is 5th in Rushing Yards with only 120 carries. He's also gained 100 yards in every single game he's started. If that's not elite, Idk what is.

And I get that a lot of the times rbs only last 3-4 years, but that's not ALWAYS the case either.

Simply stated, elite is doing that repeatedly for several successive seasons.

Right now he's breaking out. If he sustains this level of performance, he can start getting considered among the elites.

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If he keeps it up the elite term can get bandied around.

He hasn't even played enough to see good defenses scheme against him. 

I think he will continue to be dynamic if he stays healthy.

Okay allow me to rephrase then, he's playing at an elite level.

agreed.

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No, the team has lost. You're the one who wants to blame only the QB. Fact remains, elite RBs don't solve franchise problems.

In our 6 losses, our QB has 11 turnovers. 
In our 3 wins, he has none. 

QB is typically the position that matters the most when it comes to wins/losses, now whether you want to blame his poor play on the O line/WRs or whatever is up to you, but you don't win many games when you turn the ball over more than you score. That elite RB has been one of the reasons our offense has been able to score enough points to keep us in games.


"Elite RBs don't solve franchise problems"

LOL okay, tell me where the Giants are right now without Barkley, or Ten without Henry, or the Brownies without Chubb. All these teams have been winning because of their elite rbs. PS, do you think we beat the raiders without ETNs performance? Probably not.

How many of our losses did we have a lead with less than 3 minutes left in the game, though? How many turnovers were desperation throws in the waning moments trying to bail out the lawn chair D?

QB does matter significantly, but no team should require 0 turnovers, fumbles, drops, blocked kicks, etc. to say they have a chance at winning.

How far do you think any of those run-first teams are going in the postseason? You've got to have good support around that runner, otherwise you're just accumulating regular season stats.

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No, the team has lost. You're the one who wants to blame only the QB. Fact remains, elite RBs don't solve franchise problems.

In our 6 losses, our QB has 11 turnovers. 
In our 3 wins, he has none. 

QB is typically the position that matters the most when it comes to wins/losses, now whether you want to blame his poor play on the O line/WRs or whatever is up to you, but you don't win many games when you turn the ball over more than you score. That elite RB has been one of the reasons our offense has been able to score enough points to keep us in games.


"Elite RBs don't solve franchise problems"

LOL okay, tell me where the Giants are right now without Barkley, or Ten without Henry, or the Brownies without Chubb. All these teams have been winning because of their elite rbs. PS, do you think we beat the raiders without ETNs performance? Probably not.

Oh! Me! I can answer this!

They are going no where because they don't have the QB or WRs to make any kind of an impact. 2 of them MIGHT make the playoffs but they will do absolutely nothing. None of them are SB contenders despite all 3 having elite running backs.

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In our 6 losses, our QB has 11 turnovers. 
In our 3 wins, he has none. 

QB is typically the position that matters the most when it comes to wins/losses, now whether you want to blame his poor play on the O line/WRs or whatever is up to you, but you don't win many games when you turn the ball over more than you score. That elite RB has been one of the reasons our offense has been able to score enough points to keep us in games.


"Elite RBs don't solve franchise problems"

LOL okay, tell me where the Giants are right now without Barkley, or Ten without Henry, or the Brownies without Chubb. All these teams have been winning because of their elite rbs. PS, do you think we beat the raiders without ETNs performance? Probably not.

Oh! Me! I can answer this!

They are going no where because they don't have the QB or WRs to make any kind of an impact. 2 of them MIGHT make the playoffs but they will do absolutely nothing. None of them are SB contenders despite all 3 having elite running backs.

There are elite players all over the league at every position and many of them are on teams that aren't going anywhere.  There's nothing about the RB position that's any different from any other position in that regard.

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Oh! Me! I can answer this!

They are going no where because they don't have the QB or WRs to make any kind of an impact. 2 of them MIGHT make the playoffs but they will do absolutely nothing. None of them are SB contenders despite all 3 having elite running backs.

There are elite players all over the league at every position and many of them are on teams that aren't going anywhere.  There's nothing about the RB position that's any different from any other position in that regard.

Very true.

But there's a reason average WRs get traded for 1st rounders (Hollywood) and average RBs get traded for 5th rounders (JRob). They're just not as valuable.

Not saying it's not nice to have one an elite RB but RBs are far down my list of positions that I would draft when building a team. Just look at the difference Tyreek Hill and Waddle made. You think they would trade either of those guys for someone like Henry? Not a chance. Get speed at WR, a move TE and build an Oline. Draft an RB in round 3 or later and plug them in.

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There are elite players all over the league at every position and many of them are on teams that aren't going anywhere.  There's nothing about the RB position that's any different from any other position in that regard.

Very true.

But there's a reason average WRs get traded for 1st rounders (Hollywood) and average RBs get traded for 5th rounders (JRob). They're just not as valuable.

Not saying it's not nice to have one an elite RB but RBs are far down my list of positions that I would draft when building a team. Just look at the difference Tyreek Hill and Waddle made. You think they would trade either of those guys for someone like Henry? Not a chance. Get speed at WR, a move TE and build an Oline. Draft an RB in round 3 or later and plug them in.

What player would you have picked instead of Travis Etienne?

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Very true.

But there's a reason average WRs get traded for 1st rounders (Hollywood) and average RBs get traded for 5th rounders (JRob). They're just not as valuable.

Not saying it's not nice to have one an elite RB but RBs are far down my list of positions that I would draft when building a team. Just look at the difference Tyreek Hill and Waddle made. You think they would trade either of those guys for someone like Henry? Not a chance. Get speed at WR, a move TE and build an Oline. Draft an RB in round 3 or later and plug them in.

What player would you have picked instead of Travis Etienne?

Elijah Moore.

Look. It's definitely worked out in the Jags favor and I'm glad it did. It didn't work out in the Steelers favor though when they took Najee.

I just wouldn't have done it.

We are beating a dead horse here.

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What player would you have picked instead of Travis Etienne?

Elijah Moore.

Look. It's definitely worked out in the Jags favor and I'm glad it did. It didn't work out in the Steelers favor though when they took Najee.

I just wouldn't have done it.

We are beating a dead horse here.

Right now it looks like Etienne is a better pick than Elijah Moore.  Agree?

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Elijah Moore.

Look. It's definitely worked out in the Jags favor and I'm glad it did. It didn't work out in the Steelers favor though when they took Najee.

I just wouldn't have done it.

We are beating a dead horse here.

Right now it looks like Etienne is a better pick than Elijah Moore.  Agree?

Yes I agree

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Right now it looks like Etienne is a better pick than Elijah Moore.  Agree?

Yes I agree

And that's my entire argument.  I'm not saying pick an elite RB over an elite WR.  I'm saying pick Travis Etienne over whatever other players were available.  It's pick #25, for God's sake.  We're not talking about spending a top 10 pick on him.

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Elijah Moore.

Look. It's definitely worked out in the Jags favor and I'm glad it did. It didn't work out in the Steelers favor though when they took Najee.

I just wouldn't have done it.

We are beating a dead horse here.

Right now it looks like Etienne is a better pick than Elijah Moore.  Agree?

Right now. Yes.

But it's all about the situation too right? Like if Elijah Moore goes to GB last year like a lot of people projected, do we see a different Elijah Moore? Right now he's playing with Zach Wilson who stinks.

You're going to side with ETN every time because YOU personally thought he was elite. I bet the Steelers thought Najee was elite right? How's that working out? Would you be happy if the Jags got Najee after ETN went to the Steelers?

Again. I'm glad he's here but it's just not the player I would have chosen. Whether that's right or wrong in the long run.

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What player would you have picked instead of Travis Etienne?

Elijah Moore.

Look. It's definitely worked out in the Jags favor and I'm glad it did. It didn't work out in the Steelers favor though when they took Najee.

I just wouldn't have done it.

We are beating a dead horse here.

You can say that about a bunch of players at every position.  Just because he hasn't been as good as expected, not because he's a RB.  With that said the Steelers oline is trash

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There are elite players all over the league at every position and many of them are on teams that aren't going anywhere.  There's nothing about the RB position that's any different from any other position in that regard.

Very true.

But there's a reason average WRs get traded for 1st rounders (Hollywood) and average RBs get traded for 5th rounders (JRob). They're just not as valuable.

Not saying it's not nice to have one an elite RB but RBs are far down my list of positions that I would draft when building a team. Just look at the difference Tyreek Hill and Waddle made. You think they would trade either of those guys for someone like Henry? Not a chance. Get speed at WR, a move TE and build an Oline. Draft an RB in round 3 or later and plug them in.

Would you pass on Fred Taylor at #9 overall to draft Kevin Dyson?

And plug in RB Skip Hicks, who went 8th in the 3rd round in 1998?

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