Wait a minute, are you saying that a rookie day 1 starter played like...a rookie?

Not what I said

That's just what you keep hoping is the extent of the problem. 

Might be - might not be.

What percentage off struggling rookies grow out of their struggles?
What percentage do not? 

It's a big fat maybe with Luke Fortner - his rookie gaffs were more alarming than I've observed from many rookies

Pretty basic [BLEEP] here

Guys guys focus, you aren't supposed to disagree with eachother only with me calm down.

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Not what I said

That's just what you keep hoping is the extent of the problem. 

Might be - might not be.

What percentage off struggling rookies grow out of their struggles?
What percentage do not? 

It's a big fat maybe with Luke Fortner - his rookie gaffs were more alarming than I've observed from many rookies

Pretty basic [BLEEP] here

Guys guys focus, you aren't supposed to disagree with eachother only with me calm down.

Okay this is hilarious.  +1

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Guys guys focus, you aren't supposed to disagree with eachother only with me calm down.

Okay this is hilarious.  +1

CJB post of the year

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Not what I said

That's just what you keep hoping is the extent of the problem. 

Might be - might not be.

What percentage off struggling rookies grow out of their struggles?
What percentage do not? 

It's a big fat maybe with Luke Fortner - his rookie gaffs were more alarming than I've observed from many rookies

Pretty basic [BLEEP] here

Guys guys focus, you aren't supposed to disagree with eachother only with me calm down.

Unlike you, his concerns have a smidge of merit though we disagree on the solutions. I remain relatively unconcerned about Fortner, certainly not worried enough to spend draft capital on a potential replacement after just his rookie year. See, normal people can disagree about something when that something is legitimate, which is rather unlike your post history.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Okay this is hilarious.  +1

CJB post of the year

Made me laugh so I had to +1 too

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Not what I said

That's just what you keep hoping is the extent of the problem. 

Might be - might not be.

What percentage off struggling rookies grow out of their struggles?
What percentage do not? 

It's a big fat maybe with Luke Fortner - his rookie gaffs were more alarming than I've observed from many rookies

Pretty basic [BLEEP] here

Guys guys focus, you aren't supposed to disagree with eachother only with me calm down.

Your takes make it much easier to disagree with...

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Guys guys focus, you aren't supposed to disagree with eachother only with me calm down.

Unlike you, his concerns have a smidge of merit though we disagree on the solutions. I remain relatively unconcerned about Fortner, certainly not worried enough to spend draft capital on a potential replacement after just his rookie year. See, normal people can disagree about something when that something is legitimate, which is rather unlike your post history.

I will say this. The Jags moves don't seem that concerned about Fortner at Center. Most of the FA centers as upgrades are probably already signed. Anyone left would probably be a reclamation project.

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It's fortner and also bartch/shatley. If one of the three was worth a darn, he could cover for the others. But any combination of them gives us 2 liabilities in a row along the 5 man line.
I agree that FA is not the best place to look, especially not now when it's picked over.
But we have to, have to add a guy in round 1 or 2 for one of these positions.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

It's fortner and also bartch/shatley.  If one of the three was worth a darn, he could cover the others.
I agree that FA is not the best place to look, especially not now when it's picked over.
But we have to, have to add a guy in round 1 or 2 for one of these positions.

I just keep suggesting drafting a guard with some center versatility as a safeguard.
Apparently that's a step too far for some fans. 
*shrug* 

We have to add a guard to compete with Bartch anyway and Scherff may be gone after 2023 if Father Time and injury attrition start to show they are catching up to him. 
Hard for me to see why adding one IOL player in either the 2nd or 3rd round would be a bad thing with all of these factors considered. But, whatever. Everyone sees it differently.

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Guys guys focus, you aren't supposed to disagree with eachother only with me calm down.

Unlike you, his concerns have a smidge of merit though we disagree on the solutions. I remain relatively unconcerned about Fortner, certainly not worried enough to spend draft capital on a potential replacement after just his rookie year. See, normal people can disagree about something when that something is legitimate, which is rather unlike your post history.

 Lawrence played terrible his first year, I did not recomend trading him away, or replacing him after the season. Don't make up lies now. The argument is no different than mine, A guy played bad football all year and has given fans concern. The only difference is the position and the draft selection. 

Just stop.

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It's fortner and also bartch/shatley.  If one of the three was worth a darn, he could cover the others.
I agree that FA is not the best place to look, especially not now when it's picked over.
But we have to, have to add a guy in round 1 or 2 for one of these positions.

I just keep suggesting drafting a guard with some center versatility as a safeguard.
Apparently that's a step too far for some fans. 
*shrug* 

We have to add a guard to compete with Bartch anyway and Scherff may be gone after 2023 if Father Time and injury attrition start to show they are catching up to him. 
Hard for me to see why adding one IOL player in either the 2nd or 3rd round would be a bad thing with all of these factors considered. But, whatever. Everyone sees it differently.

It's really not, you're right he wasn't good this year and theres no reason to not upgrade that position if possible, or like you said draft a Guard who can play both. It's nothing like the rookie season for Trevor because
1. Fortner was taken multiple rounds before he was expected to go to begin with.
2. He was drafted in the 3rd? not the 1st overall pick
3. He wasn't nearly as gifted as Trevor is physically/talent wise.
4. O line is super important and requires 5 players + depth anyways.


Fortner is not a guy who we should just "go with" if there is a better option available, and we should absolutely be looking to get 2 or 3 linemen in this draft.

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Unlike you, his concerns have a smidge of merit though we disagree on the solutions. I remain relatively unconcerned about Fortner, certainly not worried enough to spend draft capital on a potential replacement after just his rookie year. See, normal people can disagree about something when that something is legitimate, which is rather unlike your post history.

I will say this. The Jags moves don't seem that concerned about Fortner at Center. Most of the FA centers as upgrades are probably already signed. Anyone left would probably be a reclamation project.

Rodney Hudson is still available. One year contract to solidify the interior and show Fortner the ropes.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

I will say this. The Jags moves don't seem that concerned about Fortner at Center. Most of the FA centers as upgrades are probably already signed. Anyone left would probably be a reclamation project.

Rodney Hudson is still available. One year contract to solidify the interior and show Fortner the ropes.

I think the O line will be a big focus in the drafts middle rounds. Infact I think the main focus in general will be both interior lines. Fortner was a projected 5-6th round pick coming into that draft and I think we jumped the gun a bit out of need. That's not to say he can't get better but I doubt he ever becomes a guy we deem unreplaceable.

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Rodney Hudson is still available. One year contract to solidify the interior and show Fortner the ropes.

I think the O line will be a big focus in the drafts middle rounds. Infact I think the main focus in general will be both interior lines. Fortner was a projected 5-6th round pick coming into that draft and I think we jumped the gun a bit out of need. That's not to say he can't get better but I doubt he ever becomes a guy we deem unreplaceable.

Right.  
Rounds 1-5 we should see 
Two C/G
Two 3-point stance DL
1 CB with slot ability

5 picks, 5 players.  The needs are big enough and obvious enough that any deviation will come with weeping and gnashing of teeth.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I think the O line will be a big focus in the drafts middle rounds. Infact I think the main focus in general will be both interior lines. Fortner was a projected 5-6th round pick coming into that draft and I think we jumped the gun a bit out of need. That's not to say he can't get better but I doubt he ever becomes a guy we deem unreplaceable.

Right.  
Rounds 1-5 we should see 
Two C/G
Two 3-point stance DL
1 CB with slot ability

5 picks, 5 players.  The needs are big enough and obvious enough that any deviation will come with weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Pretty much, I can't really think of anything we need more than Pass rush, and better O line play. I think everywhere else we are well off enough to be okay. Maybe throw a safety in the mix somewhere as well.. I like Cisco and Jenkins but honestly wouldn't mind upgrading one of those spots. 

Get me a guy who can create pressure up the middle in the first round, A good DB in the second and then go take some shots on the O line.

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Right.  
Rounds 1-5 we should see 
Two C/G
Two 3-point stance DL
1 CB with slot ability

5 picks, 5 players.  The needs are big enough and obvious enough that any deviation will come with weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Pretty much, I can't really think of anything we need more than Pass rush, and better O line play. I think everywhere else we are well off enough to be okay. Maybe throw a safety in the mix somewhere as well.. I like Cisco and Jenkins but honestly wouldn't mind upgrading one of those spots. 

Get me a guy who can create pressure up the middle in the first round, A good DB in the second and then go take some shots on the O line.

“Anything we need”

You done done it now buddy. The BAP police are about to come get you.

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Pretty much, I can't really think of anything we need more than Pass rush, and better O line play. I think everywhere else we are well off enough to be okay. Maybe throw a safety in the mix somewhere as well.. I like Cisco and Jenkins but honestly wouldn't mind upgrading one of those spots. 

Get me a guy who can create pressure up the middle in the first round, A good DB in the second and then go take some shots on the O line.

“Anything we need”

You done done it now buddy. The BAP police are about to come get you.

I mean I think when you're picking at 24, the value of the players will be close enough to match need. Unless someone drops outta nowhere and is clearly more talented than the rest. 

I think we go Best Available Guard/DB/IDL in round 1. Dosen't matter what order, but there are positions we need to fill. Pure BAP isn't always the right way to go. We're not in rebuild mode. If the "BPA" is a running back at 24, are we taking him with ETN on the roster? Or if one of the top two qbs dropped?

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“Anything we need”

You done done it now buddy. The BAP police are about to come get you.

I mean I think when you're picking at 24, the value of the players will be close enough to match need. Unless someone drops outta nowhere and is clearly more talented than the rest. 

I think we go Best Available Guard/DB/IDL in round 1. Dosen't matter what order, but there are positions we need to fill. Pure BAP isn't always the right way to go. We're not in rebuild mode. If the "BPA" is a running back at 24, are we taking him with ETN on the roster? Or if one of the top two qbs dropped?

You’re barking up the wrong tree here my friend. 

Those are questions you will never get a straight answer on. There’s always an excuse.

“You take BAP unless it’s a position you’re stacked on or a QB or a RB or you trade down…. I mean look at this one article from Bruce Arians.”

It’s a never ending cycle.

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I mean I think when you're picking at 24, the value of the players will be close enough to match need. Unless someone drops outta nowhere and is clearly more talented than the rest. 

I think we go Best Available Guard/DB/IDL in round 1. Dosen't matter what order, but there are positions we need to fill. Pure BAP isn't always the right way to go. We're not in rebuild mode. If the "BPA" is a running back at 24, are we taking him with ETN on the roster? Or if one of the top two qbs dropped?

You’re barking up the wrong tree here my friend. 

Those are questions you will never get a straight answer on. There’s always an excuse.

“You take BAP unless it’s a position you’re stacked on or a QB or a RB or you trade down…. I mean look at this one article from Bruce Arians.”

It’s a never ending cycle.

That's been my experience on this forum for the past 3 years tho to be fair.

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It's fortner and also bartch/shatley.  If one of the three was worth a darn, he could cover for the others.  But any combination of them gives us 2 liabilities in a row along the 5 man line.
I agree that FA is not the best place to look, especially not now when it's picked over.
But we have to, have to add a guy in round 1 or 2 for one of these positions.

Bartch was playing okay before injury. Fortner showed some promise as a rookie.
Shat is a solid back up.
But yes we should probably add a C/G dual position iol in the first 2 rounds for sure.
Also double dip OL by taking a tackle round 4 or 5.
Add a TE, NB, and S with the other 3 of first 5 picks and I'm feeling pretty good about the roster going into camp.
There's enough youth and contract flexibility in our WR corp I don't think we need to draft one. Worst case bring back MJJ or give Tim Jones more snaps

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I think the O line will be a big focus in the drafts middle rounds. Infact I think the main focus in general will be both interior lines. Fortner was a projected 5-6th round pick coming into that draft and I think we jumped the gun a bit out of need. That's not to say he can't get better but I doubt he ever becomes a guy we deem unreplaceable.

Right.  
Rounds 1-5 we should see 
Two C/G
Two 3-point stance DL
1 CB with slot ability

5 picks, 5 players.  The needs are big enough and obvious enough that any deviation will come with weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I agree those are all needs, but with this supposedly being a great TE and middle round RB class, wouldn't taking one of those positions be reasonable?

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