I get the concept of NB and RB not been of value in the first round but if there’s a player there that’s special regardless of position you take him, yes they can be found in lower rounds but if it was that easy every team would have a superstar running back and nickle back  drafted in the 4th.

It's a matter of value. If the team's missing piece is a running back then sure, take the guy who puts you over the top wherever he falls on the board. But most teams drafting high in the 1st or twice in the first like we did have major holes to fill with those picks.

Here's the list of 1st round RBs since 2017:
Najee Harris
Travis ETN
Clyde Edwards-Helaire
Josh Jacobs
Saquon Barkley
Leonard 4nette
Christian McCaffery

Which of those guys are the "special" ones who put their teams over the top? Which team would've been better served by picking a different player in that spot? Probably all of them if we're honest about it. I feel that way about Nickle too, the position matters, but not 1st Round Matters. In the Draft QB matters most, then big guys, then offensive passing skillset guys, then defensive back seven, then running backs. A #1 Corner like Darrell Revis is the exception to that IMO, but otherwise you get second and third corners later. You can't have everything in the League by design and the 3rd corner is one place where you can't have and keep the great players; it's frequently a Make Do position.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

So you think Travis Etienne was a waste of draft capital?

Yep, he's a fine player but he's ready missed one season and, if you go back to last year, there were several times where Hasty was on the field in key plays while ETN stood on the sideline. RBs are pretty much the least valuable position and taking one in the 1st is overdrafting in almost every case.

Yet he was still a better pick than the players you wanted

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Yep, he's a fine player but he's ready missed one season and, if you go back to last year, there were several times where Hasty was on the field in key plays while ETN stood on the sideline. RBs are pretty much the least valuable position and taking one in the 1st is overdrafting in almost every case.

Yet he was still a better pick than the players you wanted

No, he wasn't.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yet he was still a better pick than the players you wanted

No, he wasn't.

Who did you want at 25 again?

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No, he wasn't.

Who did you want at 25 again?

Oh, you don't know? I supposed that you would have the answer handy since you tossed out that glib little rejoinder. Guess you posted without knowledge, again.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Who did you want at 25 again?

Oh, you don't know? I supposed that you would have the answer handy since you tossed out that glib little rejoinder. Guess you posted without knowledge, again.

You have already said you wanted Elijah Moore.  Etieene has more yards in his one year than Moore has in both and Moore is a guy I wanted in the 2nd.  Etieene has been much better than Moore, a guy who is on his 2nd team already

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DING DING DING

Well done, sir. Restructure those you want to keep around.

No, restructuring Cam's deal has no relationship to whether he is here next year or not.  It is not worse to send Cam's dollars into the future if he is not on the team in the future.  

For example, if you move $8 million of cap hit from 2023 to 2024 with a restructure, that $8 million will hit the cap in 2024, whether he's on the team or not.  So whether he's going to be on the team or not should have no effect on the decision to restructure him.

Unless you're talking about cutting him before the 2023 season, which isn't going to happen.

What if I want to have $8M next year to play with? Just keep kicking other players' cans down the road and continue the cycle?

I don't want a significant chunk of my cap allocated to dead money. We've done that dance before, it was not pleasant.

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Let me just clearly state some stats from last year's nickel performances for you. 

Here are the more egregious completion percentages given up from our 2022 nickels  - early on from the out-of-position Williams before Herndon took over and also the numbers from Herndon:

week 4: 66.7%
Week 6: 83.3%
week 8: 71.4%
week 10: 75%
week 11: 75%
week 12: 75%
week 13: 100%
week14: 75%

You'll forgive me if I'm not inclined to throw a half [BLEEP] patch job on this situation. 

Go ahead and throw in the fact that we have a pass rush that was THIS close to getting home umpteen times throughout these games.
 Put those numbers above consistently at 50-60% and suddenly a dozen of those pressures have a chance to become sacks.

You didnt post those numbers after trying to tell me resigning herndon wasnt a waste of cap and roster space now did u.

Poochie is one outrageous dude.

He's totally in my face!

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Oh, you don't know? I supposed that you would have the answer handy since you tossed out that glib little rejoinder. Guess you posted without knowledge, again.

You have already said you wanted Elijah Moore.  Etieene has more yards in his one year than Moore has in both and Moore is a guy I wanted in the 2nd.  Etieene has been much better than Moore, a guy who is on his 2nd team already

Moore was the one small guy of the 5 I wanted, Jenkins, Barmore, Dickinson, and Friermuth. Barmore was my pick.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You have already said you wanted Elijah Moore.  Etieene has more yards in his one year than Moore has in both and Moore is a guy I wanted in the 2nd.  Etieene has been much better than Moore, a guy who is on his 2nd team already

Moore was the one small guy of the 5 I wanted, Jenkins, Barmore, Dickinson, and Friermuth. Barmore was my pick.

Barmore was who I wanted as well but he hasn't been very good.  He'd been average.  Etieene had over 1400 yards in his first season played.  Etienne has been much better than Barmore and is a game changer, Barmore not so much.

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Moore was the one small guy of the 5 I wanted, Jenkins, Barmore, Dickinson, and Friermuth. Barmore was my pick.

Barmore was who I wanted as well but he hasn't been very good.  He'd been average.  Etieene had over 1400 yards in his first season played.  Etienne has been much better than Barmore and is a game changer, Barmore not so much.

Barmore was All Rookie and on his way to the Pro Bowl last year when he got hurt, missing 7 games. He's touted as a budding superstar at his position. Average he is not.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

So you think Travis Etienne was a waste of draft capital?

Yep, he's a fine player but he's ready missed one season and, if you go back to last year, there were several times where Hasty was on the field in key plays while ETN stood on the sideline. RBs are pretty much the least valuable position and taking one in the 1st is overdrafting in almost every case.

Every time I noticed that all I could think is "Nothing good can happen here."  And when was the last time we drafted anyone at the bottom of the first round and they didn't end up sucking?  Marcedes?  And people [BLEEP] about that pick for years too.  We got a good player at that point for the first time in 20 years.  I think I'll be happy about it.

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Yep, he's a fine player but he's ready missed one season and, if you go back to last year, there were several times where Hasty was on the field in key plays while ETN stood on the sideline. RBs are pretty much the least valuable position and taking one in the 1st is overdrafting in almost every case.

Every time I noticed that all I could think is "Nothing good can happen here."  And when was the last time we drafted anyone at the bottom of the first round and they didn't end up sucking?  Marcedes?  And people [BLEEP] about that pick for years too.  We got a good player at that point for the first time in 20 years.  I think I'll be happy about it.

To be fair - we've only had a pick in that area of the first round in like 3 of the last 20 drafts.

Nonetheless...
There are good players being taken in slots 24-32
2020:
Brandon Aiyuk
Patrick Queen
Edwards Helaire
2019:
Josh Jacobs
Marquise Brown
Montez Sweat
Jerry Tillery
2018:
Calvin Ridley
Lamar Jackson
DJ Moore
2017:
TJ Watt 
David Njoku
Tre'Davious White
Ryan Ramczyk

Interestingly enough, the players going in that latter fourth of the first round are about 30% hits, 50% busts and 20% solid role players. At least they were in these years I skimmed through above.

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Ed Reed, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Jordan, Dez Bryant, Chris Johnson we all at 24

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Any FA signings will be AFTER the draft, not before.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Barmore was who I wanted as well but he hasn't been very good.  He'd been average.  Etieene had over 1400 yards in his first season played.  Etienne has been much better than Barmore and is a game changer, Barmore not so much.

Barmore was All Rookie and on his way to the Pro Bowl last year when he got hurt, missing 7 games. He's touted as a budding superstar at his position. Average he is not.

Barmore wasn't going to make the Pro Bowl.  He is being coached by arguably the greatest coach of All Time and hasn't quite lived up to the early 2nd round pick yet.  It's still early but we should be able to gauge Barmore and Etienne much better this year.  Etieene just had a +1400 yard season in his first year coming off a horrible injury and helped the team with the number 1 pick in the draft get to the playoffs.   Etieene has been a much valuable and better player up to this point.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/christian-barmore/82198

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Barmore was All Rookie and on his way to the Pro Bowl last year when he got hurt, missing 7 games. He's touted as a budding superstar at his position. Average he is not.

Barmore wasn't going to make the Pro Bowl.  He is being coached by arguably the greatest coach of All Time and hasn't quite lived up to the early 2nd round pick yet.  It's still early but we should be able to gauge Barmore and Etienne much better this year.  Etieene just had a +1400 yard season in his first year coming off a horrible injury and helped the team with the number 1 pick in the draft get to the playoffs.   Etieene has been a much valuable and better player up to this point.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/christian-barmore/82198

Yeah, as long as you completely discount 2021 (you know, the year ETN didn't play a snap), then I guess you're right. My overall philosophy is always the same, get the best big men you can and fill in the little guys as needed. Where this team was 2 years ago it's likely that Barmore would've been the better pick because you get better production than Fatukasi at a much lower price which in turn gives you much more maneuverability by not signing that contract. True, ETN had a very good year and he's a good player, but the alternatives could have easily been of higher benefit, especially in the long term after ETN starts to decline and a player like Barmore can play for 4 more years.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Barmore wasn't going to make the Pro Bowl.  He is being coached by arguably the greatest coach of All Time and hasn't quite lived up to the early 2nd round pick yet.  It's still early but we should be able to gauge Barmore and Etienne much better this year.  Etieene just had a +1400 yard season in his first year coming off a horrible injury and helped the team with the number 1 pick in the draft get to the playoffs.   Etieene has been a much valuable and better player up to this point.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/christian-barmore/82198

Yeah, as long as you completely discount 2021 (you know, the year ETN didn't play a snap), then I guess you're right. My overall philosophy is always the same, get the best big men you can and fill in the little guys as needed. Where this team was 2 years ago it's likely that Barmore would've been the better pick because you get better production than Fatukasi at a much lower price which in turn gives you much more maneuverability by not signing that contract. True, ETN had a very good year and he's a good player, but the alternatives could have easily been of higher benefit, especially in the long term after ETN starts to decline and a player like Barmore can play for 4 more years.

I don't think I'd worry about longevity in the draft.  You only get those guys for 5 years before you have to pay them like free agents.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Yeah, as long as you completely discount 2021 (you know, the year ETN didn't play a snap), then I guess you're right. My overall philosophy is always the same, get the best big men you can and fill in the little guys as needed. Where this team was 2 years ago it's likely that Barmore would've been the better pick because you get better production than Fatukasi at a much lower price which in turn gives you much more maneuverability by not signing that contract. True, ETN had a very good year and he's a good player, but the alternatives could have easily been of higher benefit, especially in the long term after ETN starts to decline and a player like Barmore can play for 4 more years.

I don't think I'd worry about longevity in the draft.  You only get those guys for 5 years before you have to pay them like free agents.

He's got a good point. I'd rather have Barmore + a serviceable back than ETN + Fatukasi, because that would give the Jags flexibility to sign an edge rusher, extend Engram, etc. ETN has already missed a year of time.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

ETN at 25 was a steal. Taking a rb early in the first like fournette is where its a problem to me.

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