You can value the RB position but also not want to pay them big money or use a top 100 pick on them.

I'm not sure how you can value the RB position relative to other positions if you're unwilling to allocate more meaningful resources toward it.  That sounds more like the definition of de-valuing the position, which is fine. It is by all accounts much more likely that a given RB's career is going to be more short lived than that of other positions.  Your qualifiers make it sound more like just paying lip service to the idea of valuing the position though.

I like having good RBs. Good RBs are great!

However, you can find them allllll over. Pacheco was in the 7th round last year and the Chiefs 1st rounder road the pine. In fact, Pacheco and FA off the street McKinnon vastly out played the first round pick of CEH.

Great to have good RBs but build a good system and you can find them just about anywhere.

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I'm not sure how you can value the RB position relative to other positions if you're unwilling to allocate more meaningful resources toward it.  That sounds more like the definition of de-valuing the position, which is fine. It is by all accounts much more likely that a given RB's career is going to be more short lived than that of other positions.  Your qualifiers make it sound more like just paying lip service to the idea of valuing the position though.

I like having good RBs. Good RBs are great!

However, you can find them allllll over. Pacheco was in the 7th round last year and the Chiefs 1st rounder road the pine. In fact, Pacheco and FA off the street McKinnon vastly out played the first round pick of CEH.

Great to have good RBs but build a good system and you can find them just about anywhere.

Actually, Good RBs are good, not great.  Great RBs are great.

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I'm not sure how you can value the RB position relative to other positions if you're unwilling to allocate more meaningful resources toward it.  That sounds more like the definition of de-valuing the position, which is fine. It is by all accounts much more likely that a given RB's career is going to be more short lived than that of other positions.  Your qualifiers make it sound more like just paying lip service to the idea of valuing the position though.

I like having good RBs. Good RBs are great!

However, you can find them allllll over. Pacheco was in the 7th round last year and the Chiefs 1st rounder road the pine. In fact, Pacheco and FA off the street McKinnon vastly out played the first round pick of CEH.

Great to have good RBs but build a good system and you can find them just about anywhere.

Yes, you can find them all over.  Every position is like that.  But if you want a really good RB, you have to go ahead and pick him, or someone else will.  RBs are not all the same.  Players at the same position are not interchangeable.  Trent and Doug wanted this particular guy.  They watched hours of tape, interviewed everyone who knew him, probably met with him personally, along with probably a lot of others, and this was the guy they wanted.

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Time to trust the process.

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I'm not sure how you can value the RB position relative to other positions if you're unwilling to allocate more meaningful resources toward it.  That sounds more like the definition of de-valuing the position, which is fine. It is by all accounts much more likely that a given RB's career is going to be more short lived than that of other positions.  Your qualifiers make it sound more like just paying lip service to the idea of valuing the position though.

I like having good RBs. Good RBs are great!

However, you can find them allllll over. Pacheco was in the 7th round last year and the Chiefs 1st rounder road the pine. In fact, Pacheco and FA off the street McKinnon vastly out played the first round pick of CEH.

Great to have good RBs but build a good system and you can find them just about anywhere.

That's nice to find Pacheco late in the draft or even Arian Foster as an UDFA, but like any other position, the likelihood of hitting drastically increases as you spend higher picks.  3rd round picks are fine for RBs in my opinion if your evaluation is sound and you feel he is coveted by other teams around where you picked him or shortly after.  There's plenty of 1st round busts at every position.

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Was going to say the same thing. You can do this for every position. Jaylen Watson was also drafted by them in the 7th round and was another big piece for them down the stretch of the SB run. Should we wait to draft corners late in the draft as well since they found a really good one in the 7th?

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Was going to say the same thing.  You can do this for every position.  Jaylen Watson was also drafted by them in the 7th round and was another big piece for them down the stretch of the SB run.  Should we wait to draft corners late in the draft as well since they found a really good one in the 7th?

Jaylen Watson's ability at corner is not on par with Pacheco's at RB. 
The numbers support that. 

But, by all means, go ahead and plant your flag on the hill of "CB positional value=RB positional value" if you want. 
You'll be just as alone as you are with your constantly changing definition of BPA.

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Was going to say the same thing.  You can do this for every position.  Jaylen Watson was also drafted by them in the 7th round and was another big piece for them down the stretch of the SB run.  Should we wait to draft corners late in the draft as well since they found a really good one in the 7th?

Jaylen Watson's ability at corner is not on par with Pacheco's at RB. 
The numbers support that. 

But, by all means, go ahead and plant your flag on the hill of "CB positional value=RB positional value" if you want. 
You'll be just as alone as you are with your constantly changing definition of BPA.

I duno about that. Watson was pretty damn good last year and won a couple games for the Chiefs.   What numbers are you looking for?  I'm not planting no flag on a hill I was just making a point.  And you think they factored in need when selecting Strange, Bigsby, and Miller?  Harrison as well.  Even if Robinson never got suspended I think Harrison would of been the pick.  All those picks were pure BPA and the top guy on their board.  I thought it was pretty clear they just took the top guy and didn't draft for need.  You are still living in fantasy land I see and think all teams draft for need and not pure BPA.  I thought this draft answered that question for the few lol

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I'm not sure how you can value the RB position relative to other positions if you're unwilling to allocate more meaningful resources toward it.  That sounds more like the definition of de-valuing the position, which is fine. It is by all accounts much more likely that a given RB's career is going to be more short lived than that of other positions.  Your qualifiers make it sound more like just paying lip service to the idea of valuing the position though.

I like having good RBs. Good RBs are great!

However, you can find them allllll over. Pacheco was in the 7th round last year and the Chiefs 1st rounder road the pine. In fact, Pacheco and FA off the street McKinnon vastly out played the first round pick of CEH.

Great to have good RBs but build a good system and you can find them just about anywhere.

The problem is that you are trying to portray the exception as the rule.  Yes, Pacheco had 830 yards last year.  However, the 10 running backs taken immediately in front of him in the same draft combined for 421 yards. There were 18 running backs picked on Day 3 last year.  Only 3 of them had more than 150 rushing yards.  That's less than 20%.  If you take out the 4th round, it drops to 8.3%.  If you take out the exception of Pacheco, it drops to 0%.

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Jaylen Watson's ability at corner is not on par with Pacheco's at RB. 
The numbers support that. 

But, by all means, go ahead and plant your flag on the hill of "CB positional value=RB positional value" if you want. 
You'll be just as alone as you are with your constantly changing definition of BPA.

I duno about that. Watson was pretty damn good last year and won a couple games for the Chiefs.   What numbers are you looking for?  I'm not planting no flag on a hill I was just making a point.  And you think they factored in need when selecting Strange, Bigsby, and Miller?  Harrison as well.  Even if Robinson never got suspended I think Harrison would of been the pick.  All those picks were pure BPA and the top guy on their board.  I thought it was pretty clear they just took the top guy and didn't draft for need.  You are still living in fantasy land I see and think all teams draft for need and not pure BPA.  I thought this draft answered that question for the few lol

You have no [BLEEP] idea if they were pure BPA.

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I duno about that. Watson was pretty damn good last year and won a couple games for the Chiefs.   What numbers are you looking for?  I'm not planting no flag on a hill I was just making a point.  And you think they factored in need when selecting Strange, Bigsby, and Miller?  Harrison as well.  Even if Robinson never got suspended I think Harrison would of been the pick.  All those picks were pure BPA and the top guy on their board.  I thought it was pretty clear they just took the top guy and didn't draft for need.  You are still living in fantasy land I see and think all teams draft for need and not pure BPA.  I thought this draft answered that question for the few lol

You have no [BLEEP] idea if they were pure BPA.

I thought it was pretty clear. You thought those were need picks? You think they moved some of those guys up their board for need over their top guy?

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I like having good RBs. Good RBs are great!

However, you can find them allllll over. Pacheco was in the 7th round last year and the Chiefs 1st rounder road the pine. In fact, Pacheco and FA off the street McKinnon vastly out played the first round pick of CEH.

Great to have good RBs but build a good system and you can find them just about anywhere.

The problem is that you are trying to portray the exception as the rule.  Yes, Pacheco had 830 yards last year.  However, the 10 running backs taken immediately in front of him in the same draft combined for 421 yards. There were 18 running backs picked on Day 3 last year.  Only 3 of them had more than 150 rushing yards.  That's less than 20%.  If you take out the 4th round, it drops to 8.3%.  If you take out the exception of Pacheco, it drops to 0%.

The RB value debate can go back and forth for days with stats to support either "side." 

Total yards gives you an incomplete picture because every team has different variables of usage/committee, different injury scenarios, and different schemes for their run game.

Yards per carry given a baseline/minimum sample size of touches would get you a little closer to seeing how effective a back has been for their offense. But you need to see them all as individual situations to really know who did what. 

Backs taken early by and large have a better chance of working out just like every position. 
But every single season, we have guys pop up out of nowhere that produce fantastic numbers at RB for a number of teams. 

2022 featured big contributions from these backs all drafted in the 4th, drafted later than the fourth, or un-drafted:

Kahlil Herbert
Rhamondre Stevenson
Tyler Algeier
Raheem Mostert 
Jeff Wilson
Pacheco
Ekeler 
Latavius Murray
Jamaal Williams

So - 30% of the league last year got a real boost from a back that wasn't initially a big investment and several from that list are still on cheap rookie deals. 

Each of these guys had at least 4.4 yards per carry ( except Williams at 4.1) and at least 730 yards of production. 
Many of them hit the 1000 yd mark. 

Only one of them was considered a season long bell-cow. Others were committee members or came in after an injury to a starter. But all produced despite their initial draft status or lack thereof. 

Personally - I just hope we have built this room well now and we can press pause next year on spending capital to outfit the position.

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The problem is that you are trying to portray the exception as the rule.  Yes, Pacheco had 830 yards last year.  However, the 10 running backs taken immediately in front of him in the same draft combined for 421 yards. There were 18 running backs picked on Day 3 last year.  Only 3 of them had more than 150 rushing yards.  That's less than 20%.  If you take out the 4th round, it drops to 8.3%.  If you take out the exception of Pacheco, it drops to 0%.

The RB value debate can go back and forth for days with stats to support either "side." 

Total yards gives you an incomplete picture because every team has different variables of usage/committee, different injury scenarios, and different schemes for their run game.

Yards per carry given a baseline/minimum sample size of touches would get you a little closer to seeing how effective a back has been for their offense. But you need to see them all as individual situations to really know who did what. 

Backs taken early by and large have a better chance of working out just like every position. 
But every single season, we have guys pop up out of nowhere that produce fantastic numbers at RB for a number of teams. 

2022 featured big contributions from these backs all drafted in the 4th, drafted later than the fourth, or un-drafted:

Kahlil Herbert
Rhamondre Stevenson
Tyler Algeier
Raheem Mostert 
Jeff Wilson
Pacheco
Ekeler 
Latavius Murray
Jamaal Williams

So - 30% of the league last year got a real boost from a back that wasn't initially a big investment and several from that list are still on cheap rookie deals. 

Each of these guys had at least 4.4 yards per carry ( except Williams at 4.1) and at least 730 yards of production. 
Many of them hit the 1000 yd mark. 

Only one of them was considered a season long bell-cow. Others were committee members or came in after an injury to a starter. But all produced despite their initial draft status or lack thereof. 

Personally - I just hope we have built this room well now and we can press pause next year on spending capital to outfit the position.

ETN will be in his peak next year, so we'll need an additional investment to get ready for 2025. We might take the 5th year, but that will depend on his health which is already somewhat questionable. I don't think the RB room is ever built because those guys just flat out get chewed up.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

https://jaguarswire.usatoday.com/2023/05...struggles/

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Encouraging to hear on Jaguars Happy Hour yesterday that he outran ETN in some sprinting drills. Speed and power....haven't had that since Freddy T.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

Encouraging to hear on Jaguars Happy Hour yesterday that he outran ETN in some sprinting drills.  Speed and power....haven't had that since Freddy T.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Encouraging to hear on Jaguars Happy Hour yesterday that he outran ETN in some sprinting drills.  Speed and power....haven't had that since Freddy T.

I rise to nominate this post for the mb hall of fame.

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Encouraging to hear on Jaguars Happy Hour yesterday that he outran ETN in some sprinting drills.  Speed and power....haven't had that since Freddy T.

Agreed, an exceedingly bad take on my part. MJD was only a hair slower than Fred as far as 40 time was concerned. I guess that fact that he was short and bowling ball like influenced my incorrect perception of him.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

There is a lot of hype it seems for the tank. Can’t wait to see the tank in action.

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https://twitter.com/MiaOBrienTV/status/1...28169?s=20

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