I trust Doug will figure the line out. Look what hes done with most of this team since hes gotten here. Hes taken a bottom feeding team and made them into contenders. Almost every single position is playing better than we have had the last few years. Have a feeling next years focus will be on the Oline and Dline. Then this team should really be rocking. Until proven otherwise - In Dougie I Trust.

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I don’t know why we think he could play guard if he’s not strong enough to hold up at center?  Maybe leverage isn’t as important as a guard, either?

Not being sarcastic. Just wondering.


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Fortner is no guard lol.  He isn't a starting quality lineman.  His best season in college was at center. Moving him to guard isn't automatically going to make him stronger or a better player.  Fortner should be a backup center in a pinch.

Fortner was a four year starter at Guard with Kentucky, he was a fifth year player due to Covid and played his final year there at Center for Kentucky. I think, while he's clearly not the strongest guy out there, you at least move him to a position that he has more experience with and you try to salvage a 3rd RD investment. 

I think Scherff is here in 2024 anyway. So, it's not like I am saying we plug him in at RG next year and immediately cut our losses with Scherff. It's a full year of him being a back-up at a less mentally demanding position. 

I don't think he can physically handle having his head down, keeping up with assignments, calling out assignments, snapping the football and then proceeding to get up, gain leverage and push a defender forwards for the running game or get back quick enough in pass protection. 

Playing him at right guard might be better. It at least removes some of the mental aspects out of the game and he can just focus more on engaging, blocking and driving his man into the ground or stonewalling him.

Yes, and he never sniffed any type of awards  when he played those years.  His last season at Kentucky he played C and won First Team All SEC and was his best season.  Fortner is one of the smartest players on the team, the mental aspect isnt the problem.  He's just not good enough at the next level to be a quality starter.  You dont really see our lineman confused or not sure of the assignment, they just arent very good and get beat consistently.

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Fortner was a four year starter at Guard with Kentucky, he was a fifth year player due to Covid and played his final year there at Center for Kentucky. I think, while he's clearly not the strongest guy out there, you at least move him to a position that he has more experience with and you try to salvage a 3rd RD investment. 

I think Scherff is here in 2024 anyway. So, it's not like I am saying we plug him in at RG next year and immediately cut our losses with Scherff. It's a full year of him being a back-up at a less mentally demanding position. 

I don't think he can physically handle having his head down, keeping up with assignments, calling out assignments, snapping the football and then proceeding to get up, gain leverage and push a defender forwards for the running game or get back quick enough in pass protection. 

Playing him at right guard might be better. It at least removes some of the mental aspects out of the game and he can just focus more on engaging, blocking and driving his man into the ground or stonewalling him.

Yes, and he never sniffed any type of awards  when he played those years.  His last season at Kentucky he played C and won First Team All SEC and was his best season.  Fortner is one of the smartest players on the team, the mental aspect isnt the problem.  He's just not good enough at the next level to be a quality starter.  You dont really see our lineman confused or not sure of the assignment, they just arent very good and get beat consistently.

The kid is literally a rocket scientist.


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Fix the O-Line!

I trust Doug will figure the line out. Look what hes done with most of this team since hes gotten here. Hes taken a bottom feeding team and made them into contenders. Almost every single position is playing better than we have had the last few years. Have a feeling next years focus will be on the Oline and Dline. Then this team should really be rocking. Until proven otherwise - In Dougie I Trust.

He didn't figure it out this year, so ... I'll believe it when I see it.

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On rewatch, just see multiple instances of just Fortner getting pushed 2 or 3 yards back and no one else. I'm no O-line play expert, but I'm pretty sure that's not part of the plan.

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www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJHUbtR0yI8

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Just going to put this out here...

But if our O-Line is regressing this bad, maybe the coaching staff should be under the microscope.

Most of these Linemen were here last year.  So if these linemen are trash, it's either the coaches for not developing them or the scouting crew that can't figure out how to get the best O-Line talent.

It's 2 years now.  And Lawrence has been injured because of bad O-Line play for both years.

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On rewatch, just see multiple instances of just Fortner getting pushed 2 or 3 yards back and no one else.  I'm no O-line play expert, but I'm pretty sure that's not part of the plan.

I hear he even makes a *beepbeepbeep* sound after every snap.

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I trust Doug will figure the line out. Look what hes done with most of this team since hes gotten here. Hes taken a bottom feeding team and made them into contenders. Almost every single position is playing better than we have had the last few years. Have a feeling next years focus will be on the Oline and Dline. Then this team should really be rocking. Until proven otherwise - In Dougie I Trust.

He didn't figure it out this year, so ... I'll believe it when I see it.

I don't disagree, but he did acquire a team that drafted 1st 2 years in a row. So the overall team in general was pretty bad. They have made numerous upgrades. Our cap situation isn't the best knowing all the big contracts we are going to fork out for. My hope is the original game plan, they thought the Oline would take some steps forward, but didn't. They did at least attempt to help the line by bringing in Cleveland. We won't really know until the offseason, but everytime I've questioned what Doug was doing hes came out on top. I'm not a fan of Baalke, but I couldn't imagine him being so incompetent that he would ignore the Oline in the offseason. I'm willing to bet Shad and Tony can even see the needs. But I'm going to stay positive. Its only been a year and a halfish. By the end of year 3 I think we should see this team for what Doug envisions. Until proven otherwise, In Dougie I Trust!

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Just going to put this out here...

But if our O-Line is regressing this bad, maybe the coaching staff should be under the microscope.

Most of these Linemen were here last year.  So if these linemen are trash, it's either the coaches for not developing them or the scouting crew that can't figure out how to get the best O-Line talent.

It's 2 years now.  And Lawrence has been injured because of bad O-Line play for both years.

So you're saying that a line that wasn't more than average last year, that didn't have a significant change in personnel, that was downright terrible early in the season, that's started 4 different left guards this season, that's best player has been nicked up twice now, that's had a rookie tackle playing on a bum shoulder for two months...is bad because of Press Taylor? Lol.

The line didn't "regress", they won in spite of them last year too. The problem is still where it's always been, sitting behind the GM's desk. But yeah, that Press Taylor sure sucks at making chicken salad. Whatever you can do you shoehorn your fetish into a thread I guess.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Just going to put this out here...

But if our O-Line is regressing this bad, maybe the coaching staff should be under the microscope.

Most of these Linemen were here last year.  So if these linemen are trash, it's either the coaches for not developing them or the scouting crew that can't figure out how to get the best O-Line talent.

It's 2 years now.  And Lawrence has been injured because of bad O-Line play for both years.

I’ll just put this out there.

Maybe the players just aren’t very good.

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https://twitter.com/DanDGriffis/status/1...01455?s=20

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https://twitter.com/DanDGriffis/status/1...01455?s=20

The Jaguars are barreling into an Andrew Luck situation if they keep Baalke.

The team has a great QB and coach without a lot to work with. Khan needs to get a decent talent evaluator/roster builder in quick before we're looking at Trevor in the rear view mirror since he just can't take the punishment anymore.

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https://twitter.com/DanDGriffis/status/1...01455?s=20

The Jaguars are barreling into an Andrew Luck situation if they keep Baalke.

The team has a great QB and coach without a lot to work with. Khan needs to get a decent talent evaluator/roster builder in quick before we're looking at Trevor in the rear view mirror since he just can't take the punishment anymore.

I'll disagree, with the caveat to talk to me again at the end of April.

Dude used two picks, including our first, last year to address the line. We traded for an LG/T that may be part of the long-term approach. We've spent early picks in the past few years on the line. We can all armchair GM and hindsight our way to 'obvious' misses but you can't say he's turning a blind eye to the matter.

Yes, we need to keep building. Guys get older, guys get hurt, guys get expensive. It's a continuous cycle of replacement. It's better that the guys we've either missed on or lost to injury were the mid-to-late picks. Whiffing on early guys or overspending on flag magnets like the Chefs did would be much more fireable an offense.

Now if we go into April and spend a bunch of darft capital on WR and defensive secondary guys? Ride him out of town on a rail. I just don't see that happening...Yet.

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The Jaguars are barreling into an Andrew Luck situation if they keep Baalke.

The team has a great QB and coach without a lot to work with. Khan needs to get a decent talent evaluator/roster builder in quick before we're looking at Trevor in the rear view mirror since he just can't take the punishment anymore.

I'll disagree, with the caveat to talk to me again at the end of April.

Dude used two picks, including our first, last year to address the line. We traded for an LG/T that may be part of the long-term approach. We've spent early picks in the past few years on the line. We can all armchair GM and hindsight our way to 'obvious' misses but you can't say he's turning a blind eye to the matter.

Yes, we need to keep building. Guys get older, guys get hurt, guys get expensive. It's a continuous cycle of replacement. It's better that the guys we've either missed on or lost to injury were the mid-to-late picks. Whiffing on early guys or overspending on flag magnets like the Chefs did would be much more fireable an offense.

Now if we go into April and spend a bunch of darft capital on WR and defensive secondary guys? Ride him out of town on a rail. I just don't see that happening...Yet.

Interesting, you think flushing money and picks on guys that can't play is to his credit?

The problem isn't that Baalke has signed and drafted guys, the problem is only some the guys he signed in free agency or drafted very high are any good (not all of them are) and the majority of his picks have been utter trash. That's not sustainable.

Khan needs to make a move this off-season. His biggest problem has been too much patience, but hopefully the Urban saga has remedied that.

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We also aren't the only ones with this problem. It's been going around all the NFL circles recently about just how bad most of the OLs in the NFL are this year. A major contributing factor to so many injured QBs

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

We also aren't the only ones with this problem. It's been going around all the NFL circles recently about just how bad most of the OLs in the NFL are this year. A major contributing factor to so many injured QBs

Yeah I have a feeling OL is going to be in high demand in free agency and early in the draft assuming there are worthy prospects.  Even if not, the demand will likely push the position group up the board a bit.

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The Jaguars are barreling into an Andrew Luck situation if they keep Baalke.

The team has a great QB and coach without a lot to work with. Khan needs to get a decent talent evaluator/roster builder in quick before we're looking at Trevor in the rear view mirror since he just can't take the punishment anymore.

I'll disagree, with the caveat to talk to me again at the end of April.

Dude used two picks, including our first, last year to address the line. We traded for an LG/T that may be part of the long-term approach. We've spent early picks in the past few years on the line. We can all armchair GM and hindsight our way to 'obvious' misses but you can't say he's turning a blind eye to the matter.

Yes, we need to keep building. Guys get older, guys get hurt, guys get expensive. It's a continuous cycle of replacement. It's better that the guys we've either missed on or lost to injury were the mid-to-late picks. Whiffing on early guys or overspending on flag magnets like the Chefs did would be much more fireable an offense.

Now if we go into April and spend a bunch of darft capital on WR and defensive secondary guys? Ride him out of town on a rail. I just don't see that happening...Yet.

He's tried, to be fair, he's just not hit any homeruns yet. Scherff has been decent, Fortner has been abysmal, Harrison looks promising, it's anyone's guess as to who was primarily responsible for Little being here, but, he's been limited since day one and his injuries continue to concern me. He opted to extend Cam Robinson I believe but that's nearing an end more than likely in 2024. 

I think my concern with him, as cited recently, is that, he's been a better go getter in free agency than he has in the drafting arena. That concerns me as most teams, at least, good quality teams, they tend to be the opposite. They build efficiently and more cost effectively via the draft and just patch up holes or find a missing piece to the puzzle via free agency. 

Time will tell though. Not ready to throw in the towel completely with him. 

I'll disagree, with the caveat to talk to me again at the end of April.

Dude used two picks, including our first, last year to address the line. We traded for an LG/T that may be part of the long-term approach. We've spent early picks in the past few years on the line. We can all armchair GM and hindsight our way to 'obvious' misses but you can't say he's turning a blind eye to the matter.

Yes, we need to keep building. Guys get older, guys get hurt, guys get expensive. It's a continuous cycle of replacement. It's better that the guys we've either missed on or lost to injury were the mid-to-late picks. Whiffing on early guys or overspending on flag magnets like the Chefs did would be much more fireable an offense.

Now if we go into April and spend a bunch of darft capital on WR and defensive secondary guys? Ride him out of town on a rail. I just don't see that happening...Yet.

Interesting, you think flushing money and picks on guys that can't play is to his credit?

The problem isn't that Baalke has signed and drafted guys, the problem is only some the guys he signed in free agency or drafted very high are any good (not all of them are) and the majority of his picks have been utter trash. That's not sustainable.

Khan needs to make a move this off-season. His biggest problem has been too much patience, but hopefully the Urban saga has remedied that.

I think Khan was close last year in trying to add a middle man to the equation. At one point, Rick Spielman was linked to this team at some capacity in the personnel department. I think we should try that route again. 

Doesn't have to be Spielman in particular, but, somebody like him, or maybe a Rick Smith type to act as someone with final say, or, the ability to override Baalke if needed based on their personal evaluations or feelings about the roster? I think that would help out a little bit. 

I think Baalke has done a good job at finding free agency players and working out contracts and extensions to keep the cap up to NFL standards and I think he's still worthy of having around. He just has to be better in these drafts. I expected more out of this draft class after he made maybe one or two moves and ultimately selected a total of thirteen players.

We also aren't the only ones with this problem. It's been going around all the NFL circles recently about just how bad most of the OLs in the NFL are this year. A major contributing factor to so many injured QBs

This is true. Offensive line play across the board has been down in 2023 and it's resulted in a number or major QB injuries. With the exception of maybe the Eagles, 49ers, Cowboys and Ravens, I would say the other 28 teams are all looking for a face or two to add to their current line-up's as it stands now. 

We also aren't the only ones with this problem. It's been going around all the NFL circles recently about just how bad most of the OLs in the NFL are this year. A major contributing factor to so many injured QBs

Yeah I have a feeling OL is going to be in high demand in free agency and early in the draft assuming there are worthy prospects.  Even if not, the demand will likely push the position group up the board a bit.

I also agree with this. We'll probably see a run and see guys go a little bit higher than expected. That's including a position of need for us in particular at the Center position. All of a sudden guys with late day two and early day three grades are probably moving up a good 15 - 30 slots. 

Going to be a tough off season for this team but I hope they can pull in at least two quality starters at C and LT. I like Little, I just hate his durability. I think Cleveland might give him a run for his money at LT and one of those guys ends up at LG regardless, but, my mind would be towards upgrading the Center position and looking at either a quality LT/LG or a potential RG that replaces Scherff sooner rather than later.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I'll disagree, with the caveat to talk to me again at the end of April.

Dude used two picks, including our first, last year to address the line. We traded for an LG/T that may be part of the long-term approach. We've spent early picks in the past few years on the line. We can all armchair GM and hindsight our way to 'obvious' misses but you can't say he's turning a blind eye to the matter.

Yes, we need to keep building. Guys get older, guys get hurt, guys get expensive. It's a continuous cycle of replacement. It's better that the guys we've either missed on or lost to injury were the mid-to-late picks. Whiffing on early guys or overspending on flag magnets like the Chefs did would be much more fireable an offense.

Now if we go into April and spend a bunch of darft capital on WR and defensive secondary guys? Ride him out of town on a rail. I just don't see that happening...Yet.

Interesting, you think flushing money and picks on guys that can't play is to his credit?

The problem isn't that Baalke has signed and drafted guys, the problem is only some the guys he signed in free agency or drafted very high are any good (not all of them are) and the majority of his picks have been utter trash. That's not sustainable.

Khan needs to make a move this off-season. His biggest problem has been too much patience, but hopefully the Urban saga has remedied that.

If the Jags win the division and a playoff game, it'll be almost impossible to fire Baalke.

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The Jaguars are barreling into an Andrew Luck situation if they keep Baalke.

The team has a great QB and coach without a lot to work with. Khan needs to get a decent talent evaluator/roster builder in quick before we're looking at Trevor in the rear view mirror since he just can't take the punishment anymore.

I'll disagree, with the caveat to talk to me again at the end of April.

Dude used two picks, including our first, last year to address the line. We traded for an LG/T that may be part of the long-term approach. We've spent early picks in the past few years on the line. We can all armchair GM and hindsight our way to 'obvious' misses but you can't say he's turning a blind eye to the matter.

Yes, we need to keep building. Guys get older, guys get hurt, guys get expensive. It's a continuous cycle of replacement. It's better that the guys we've either missed on or lost to injury were the mid-to-late picks. Whiffing on early guys or overspending on flag magnets like the Chefs did would be much more fireable an offense.

Now if we go into April and spend a bunch of darft capital on WR and defensive secondary guys? Ride him out of town on a rail. I just don't see that happening...Yet.

Aside from being tragically over confident in Bartch and Fortner heading into this season and failing to prepare any contingency worth a damn - I think the biggest issue has been the ZBS-"athletic" lineman focus in acquisitions. 
Even if we do continue to run a ton of ZBS stuff - you can't do it whilst having 3 IOL who can't ever get you a single yard of push when you need to convert or scrape across the GL. Pederson/Baalke (and probably Rauscher to a degree) have overplayed their hand in this regard. 

Scherff does his job pretty well more often than not and he looks great pulling and going second level at times, but he gets very little push at the line, and the two guys to the left have been a much worse version of that until Ezra showed up. 

Personally - I'd rethink how much ZBS stuff they run and install a page of power stuff in the offseason to compliment it. Of course they'd need to refit at least two out of the three IOL players. 

Whether Ezra or Scherff are brought back or not - they desperately need a better Center and at least one guard who can get some push but still be athletic enough for the larger scheme. 

Outside of that - we'll know if Little is the future or not by season's end. I feel good about RT an LT may be alright if Little can get on track. So far he's logged some sketchy enough play to be concerned and he's showing a potential durability issue. 

So - I don't put it all on Baalke, it's a combination of acquisitions that aren't good enough and an over reliance on athletic traits in a one dimensional run scheme. I just hope this staff isn't looking at this C/G situation with the complacency they had looking at it back in March and April.

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