Marty is actually being generous.  The dictionary definition you offer is too general to be useful and Winger wouldn't identify with it either.  Commies and Nazis are both anti-establishment.  Marty says he's dangerous to "the establishment" and that could mean a lot of people that Winger actually likes.  Winger should be more specific.

Neither you or Marty are dumb enough to mistakenly believe WingerDinger is a communist or nazi. Winger literally just agreed with me that Trump's base expects him to fight the establishment or they wouldn't support him. Who is the establishment. Don't play dumb.

Does the establishment want higher taxes on the wealthy, or lower?
Does the establishment want to lower interest rates and risk inflation, or raise them and reduce the risk of inflation?
Does the establishment want to treat abortion as a crime, or as a private matter?
Does the establishment want more legal immigration, or less?
Does the establishment want a loosely controlled border, with more illegal immigration, or less?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

And therein lies your problem.

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And therein lies your problem.

Do you think people in general adopt a political philosophy that they believe is in line with their own self-interest?

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The obvious answer is yes. The more nuanced question is how they determine what's in their best interest.

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The obvious answer is yes. The more nuanced question is how they determine what's in their best interest.

Okay, so, for what sort of person would "fighting the establishment" not be in their best interest?

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The obvious answer is yes. The more nuanced question is how they determine what's in their best interest.

Okay, so, for what sort of person would "fighting the establishment" not be in their best interest?

Either the people that benefit from it in the form of corruption or the uninformed. Which one are you?

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Okay, so, for what sort of person would "fighting the establishment" not be in their best interest?

Either the people that benefit from it in the form of corruption or the uninformed. 

Would it be in the best interest of a rich person to fight the establishment?

I think there are a lot of people for whom fighting the establishment would not be in their best interest, and they are neither corrupt nor uninformed.  Obviously, people who have benefited from the way things are, or expect to benefit from the way things are, have a vested interest in keeping things as they are.  But that doesn't make them corrupt or uninformed.  

Seriously, to say that anyone who doesn't "fight the establishment" is either corrupt or uninformed is kind of egotistical, isn't it?  You're saying that people who don't believe what you believe are either dishonest or stupid.

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The Uniparty Establishment Queens on here are pissed because nobody likes the Uniparty or Establishment lololol

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The Uniparty Establishment Queens on here are pissed because nobody likes the Uniparty or Establishment lololol

No, we just find that you don't actually have a policy program to recommend.  You just like one guy and dislike anyone who dislikes that guy.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

The Uniparty Establishment Queens on here are pissed because nobody likes the Uniparty or Establishment lololol

No, we just find that you don't actually have a policy program to recommend.  You just like one guy and dislike anyone who dislikes that guy.

Why don't you and Marty make a play date? You can go grab your coloring books, pour yourselves some hot chocolate and pet a therapy dog together lolol

Maybe you can follow that therapy dog around again and fill that cup up.. Two RINOs, One cup lol

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No, we just find that you don't actually have a policy program to recommend.  You just like one guy and dislike anyone who dislikes that guy.

Why don't you and Marty make a play date? You can go grab your coloring books, pour yourselves some hot chocolate and pet a therapy dog together lolol

Maybe you can follow that therapy dog around again and fill that cup up.. Two RINOs, One cup lol

Isn't one participation trophy enough? Does your generation need more than one now?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Either the people that benefit from it in the form of corruption or the uninformed. 

Would it be in the best interest of a rich person to fight the establishment?

I think there are a lot of people for whom fighting the establishment would not be in their best interest, and they are neither corrupt nor uninformed.  Obviously, people who have benefited from the way things are, or expect to benefit from the way things are, have a vested interest in keeping things as they are.  But that doesn't make them corrupt or uninformed.  

Seriously, to say that anyone who doesn't "fight the establishment" is either corrupt or uninformed is kind of egotistical, isn't it?  You're saying that people who don't believe what you believe are either dishonest or stupid.

You sure you want to get philosophical? If the system is corrupt, and you benefit from it knowing it's corrupt, and have no desire to change it because you benefit from it, what are you, Marty? You are part of the exploitation. Now, you may be unaware of that, but it doesn't change. So, you're either complicit in perpetuating it, or your ignorant. Not sure how you find a middle ground there. 

Giving you as much grace as possible, no system will be perfect, so perfection is an unobtainable goal. However, transparency and accountability have to be the standard. Without it, you can't course correct, which is important in a democracy. 

Almost none of the antiestablishment guys in this board want to abolish the system. They want transparency and accountability to restore it. From our media, to our politicians, to our universities, to our corporations... all of them are subverting ideals that made this nation great, corrupting the bedrock principles that maximize prosperity for the most people, not just the few. 

So, I don't really give two turds whether or not you benefit from that. Your ignorant if you can't see it or corrupted if you don't care.

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Would it be in the best interest of a rich person to fight the establishment?

I think there are a lot of people for whom fighting the establishment would not be in their best interest, and they are neither corrupt nor uninformed.  Obviously, people who have benefited from the way things are, or expect to benefit from the way things are, have a vested interest in keeping things as they are.  But that doesn't make them corrupt or uninformed.  

Seriously, to say that anyone who doesn't "fight the establishment" is either corrupt or uninformed is kind of egotistical, isn't it?  You're saying that people who don't believe what you believe are either dishonest or stupid.

You sure you want to get philosophical? If the system is corrupt, and you benefit from it knowing it's corrupt, and have no desire to change it because you benefit from it, what are you, Marty? You are part of the exploitation. Now, you may be unaware of that, but it doesn't change. So, you're either complicit in perpetuating it, or your ignorant. Not sure how you find a middle ground there. 

Giving you as much grace as possible, no system will be perfect, so perfection is an unobtainable goal. However, transparency and accountability have to be the standard. Without it, you can't course correct, which is important in a democracy. 

Almost none of the antiestablishment guys in this board want to abolish the system. They want transparency and accountability to restore it. From our media, to our politicians, to our universities, to our corporations... all of them are subverting ideals that made this nation great, corrupting the bedrock principles that maximize prosperity for the most people, not just the few. 

So, I don't really give two turds whether or not you benefit from that. Your ignorant if you can't see it or corrupted if you don't care.

I'll tell ya, dude.. I don't know how the [BLEEP] you do it. Neither of those [BLEEP] clowns care what ya have to say, no matter how much sense it may make. 

The hate is strong in The Tampon Coven!! 

I bet they even threw away their kids' orange crayons lolol

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Would it be in the best interest of a rich person to fight the establishment?

I think there are a lot of people for whom fighting the establishment would not be in their best interest, and they are neither corrupt nor uninformed.  Obviously, people who have benefited from the way things are, or expect to benefit from the way things are, have a vested interest in keeping things as they are.  But that doesn't make them corrupt or uninformed.  

Seriously, to say that anyone who doesn't "fight the establishment" is either corrupt or uninformed is kind of egotistical, isn't it?  You're saying that people who don't believe what you believe are either dishonest or stupid.

You sure you want to get philosophical? If the system is corrupt, and you benefit from it knowing it's corrupt, and have no desire to change it because you benefit from it, what are you, Marty? You are part of the exploitation. Now, you may be unaware of that, but it doesn't change. So, you're either complicit in perpetuating it, or your ignorant. Not sure how you find a middle ground there. 

Giving you as much grace as possible, no system will be perfect, so perfection is an unobtainable goal. However, transparency and accountability have to be the standard. Without it, you can't course correct, which is important in a democracy. 

Almost none of the antiestablishment guys in this board want to abolish the system. They want transparency and accountability to restore it. From our media, to our politicians, to our universities, to our corporations... all of them are subverting ideals that made this nation great, corrupting the bedrock principles that maximize prosperity for the most people, not just the few. 

So, I don't really give two turds whether or not you benefit from that. Your ignorant if you can't see it or corrupted if you don't care.

Ugh now you think you're Cicero or something.
Marty is not agreeing with you that "the system" is generally corrupt.
You are taking it as a given that it is generally corrupt.
So you are talking past each other.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

It is generally corrupt you [BLEEP]. You fall squarely in the ignorant camp and always have. Willfully, I might add. You admitted you're an idealist and you just "hope" things are going to change for the better. Not sure why you want to ignore what's in front of your face.

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Would it be in the best interest of a rich person to fight the establishment?

I think there are a lot of people for whom fighting the establishment would not be in their best interest, and they are neither corrupt nor uninformed.  Obviously, people who have benefited from the way things are, or expect to benefit from the way things are, have a vested interest in keeping things as they are.  But that doesn't make them corrupt or uninformed.  

Seriously, to say that anyone who doesn't "fight the establishment" is either corrupt or uninformed is kind of egotistical, isn't it?  You're saying that people who don't believe what you believe are either dishonest or stupid.

You sure you want to get philosophical? If the system is corrupt, and you benefit from it knowing it's corrupt, and have no desire to change it because you benefit from it, what are you, Marty? You are part of the exploitation. Now, you may be unaware of that, but it doesn't change. So, you're either complicit in perpetuating it, or your ignorant. Not sure how you find a middle ground there. 

Giving you as much grace as possible, no system will be perfect, so perfection is an unobtainable goal. However, transparency and accountability have to be the standard. Without it, you can't course correct, which is important in a democracy. 

Almost none of the antiestablishment guys in this board want to abolish the system. They want transparency and accountability to restore it. From our media, to our politicians, to our universities, to our corporations... all of them are subverting ideals that made this nation great, corrupting the bedrock principles that maximize prosperity for the most people, not just the few. 

So, I don't really give two turds whether or not you benefit from that. Your ignorant if you can't see it or corrupted if you don't care.

Well said.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

Would it be in the best interest of a rich person to fight the establishment?

I think there are a lot of people for whom fighting the establishment would not be in their best interest, and they are neither corrupt nor uninformed.  Obviously, people who have benefited from the way things are, or expect to benefit from the way things are, have a vested interest in keeping things as they are.  But that doesn't make them corrupt or uninformed.  

Seriously, to say that anyone who doesn't "fight the establishment" is either corrupt or uninformed is kind of egotistical, isn't it?  You're saying that people who don't believe what you believe are either dishonest or stupid.

You sure you want to get philosophical? If the system is corrupt, and you benefit from it knowing it's corrupt, and have no desire to change it because you benefit from it, what are you, Marty? You are part of the exploitation. Now, you may be unaware of that, but it doesn't change. So, you're either complicit in perpetuating it, or your ignorant. Not sure how you find a middle ground there. 

Giving you as much grace as possible, no system will be perfect, so perfection is an unobtainable goal. However, transparency and accountability have to be the standard. Without it, you can't course correct, which is important in a democracy. 

Almost none of the antiestablishment guys in this board want to abolish the system. They want transparency and accountability to restore it. From our media, to our politicians, to our universities, to our corporations... all of them are subverting ideals that made this nation great, corrupting the bedrock principles that maximize prosperity for the most people, not just the few. 

So, I don't really give two turds whether or not you benefit from that. Your ignorant if you can't see it or corrupted if you don't care.

The Gray Lady sniffs in contempt.

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