Laughable take. Brunell got us to the AFCCG .....twice.  Pre and post Freddy T.  Also, everything in post 3174.

Brunell never threw for more than 20 TDs (twice) in his entire career here.

In 96 when they made the first AFCCG, he had 22 Total TDs (19 Passing, 3 Rushing), 20 INT and 14 Fumbles that season.

In 99 when they made the second AFCCG, he had 15 Total TDs (14 Passing, 1 Rushing), 9 INT and 6 Fumbles that season.

Don't get me wrong, I love Brunell, but Lawrence is absolutely better than he was.

Comparing stats back than to now is pretty idiotic.

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Brunell never threw for more than 20 TDs (twice) in his entire career here.

In 96 when they made the first AFCCG, he had 22 Total TDs (19 Passing, 3 Rushing), 20 INT and 14 Fumbles that season.

In 99 when they made the second AFCCG, he had 15 Total TDs (14 Passing, 1 Rushing), 9 INT and 6 Fumbles that season.

Don't get me wrong, I love Brunell, but Lawrence is absolutely better than he was.

Comparing stats back than to now is pretty idiotic.

All we should ultimately care about is wins. Once they start drying up, which, in fairness, they have as of late, after a 1 - 2 start that was then flipped into an 8 - 3 record at one point. It's frustrating. 

He's certainly played a part in the mid season collapse. I think he had a good game against the Bengals which was ruined by a really, really bad let down defensively. 

I think he let the team down a bit in Cleveland, along with the defense there collectively in that loss. We can argue about wrong routes, etc. But, they all needed to play better in that one.

Those are the last two games where the offense looked somewhat decent, competent and capable of moving the football down the field. It's since grown stale and his injuries are obviously effecting him physically and mentally. Those are the two games I wish we could have back because it all but seals the deal for this team right now in this division more than likely. 

Carolina is the make or break game for me this year. If they lose this game, whether he starts or not? There needs to be changes made across the organization at the end of the year, especially if they miss the play-off's. 

It could and should very well include a conversation regarding Press Taylor and Mike Caldwell's status as coordinators and it should also include, most importantly, a deeper conversation between Pederson, the Khan's and Baalke's future within the organization.

There's a disconnect somewhere and it goes back to March and April of this year. Somebody signed off on being confident in what they had on the roster in two glaringly BAD areas on this football team and they had some opportunities to improve upon it and they didn't do it.

They failed in evaluations. They failed in improving the offensive line, the defensive line, the secondary and the running game. All of those are major factors as to why this team has collapsed, more so than a banged up Lawrence in my opinion. 

I'd say it's about a 65 - 35 split in favor of Lawrence in this mess right now. A QB in this league is only as good as his offensive line enables him, and is only as good as his running game can balance him out. We can argue semantics, we can argue the past, we can argue skill sets, traits, etc.

We can argue turnovers. What we cannot argue on though, is a fundamental fact in this sport, and, you can see CLEARLY with the top teams in the NFL, that, NOT having a running game, and, NOT having a powerful offensive line and defensive line will typically result in your franchise hovering around the middling range of the NFL or being a basement dweller. 

Period.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

We're definitely seeing a legit MVP candidature tonight, just not the one the trolls were touting.  

Darnold comes in for Purdy and moves them right down the field for an easy TD. Dare I say it.... Darnold for MVP?

Beathard should be starting for Purdy

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He is better than Brunell. Could you imagine Lawrence with Jimmy, McCardell and Freddy T... Good god.

Laughable take. Brunell got us to the AFCCG .....twice.  Pre and post Freddy T.  Also, everything in post 3174.

It's a shame you can't see the talent difference between those teams on both sides of the ball. I think the 98 Jags linemen could whip this group tomorrow.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Laughable take. Brunell got us to the AFCCG .....twice.  Pre and post Freddy T.  Also, everything in post 3174.

It's a shame you can't see the talent difference between those teams on both sides of the ball. I think the 98 Jags linemen could whip this group tomorrow.

It's a no contest for me. The 1996 - 1999 team was the best era this franchise ever had. They were stacked across the board, they could impose their will at times on defenses and offenses with the amount of toughness and power they exuded from the trenches. 

We're just going to have to wait it out and hope for the best going into year four and saying that is a bummer but they're still +500 somehow and still within reach of a play-off berth for the second straight year in a row. 

I just can't throw in the towel yet. It's been bad. It's been brutal. It's been abysmal at times. Somehow, through all of that, they're still 8 - 7 and leading the AFC South. It's just the way it goes sometimes. 

Every team in our division, and, if we're being honest, the AFC in general, it's taken a step back this year. The only exception is Baltimore now. After they just handled Detroit and now San Francisco in convincing fashion. They're officially the team to beat in my opinion. 

We're not there yet. It was obvious last year, and it was obvious going into this year that we didn't do enough to improve the trenches on both sides. That's all it circles back to. We can't run the ball, we can't protect the QB long enough, we can't out scheme ourselves enough out of a wet paper bag and the defense is suffering in the secondary because if it's not Allen or Walker? 

Who else is threatening the QB? Nobody. So, it is what it is. Does Trevor need to play better and protect the football? Sure, at times, yes, we all agree on that. But, as a whole? This team has a long, long way to go to even dare have it's name mentioned with teams like Baltimore & San Francisco. 

It's not even close. I won't lose hope though just yet. Now, if they lose to Carolina? LOL. Different story. But, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I still have time to relax a bit.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

It's a shame you can't see the talent difference between those teams on both sides of the ball. I think the 98 Jags linemen could whip this group tomorrow.

It's a no contest for me. The 1996 - 1999 team was the best era this franchise ever had. They were stacked across the board, they could impose their will at times on defenses and offenses with the amount of toughness and power they exuded from the trenches. 

We're just going to have to wait it out and hope for the best going into year four and saying that is a bummer but they're still +500 somehow and still within reach of a play-off berth for the second straight year in a row. 

I just can't throw in the towel yet. It's been bad. It's been brutal. It's been abysmal at times. Somehow, through all of that, they're still 8 - 7 and leading the AFC South. It's just the way it goes sometimes. 

Every team in our division, and, if we're being honest, the AFC in general, it's taken a step back this year. The only exception is Baltimore now. After they just handled Detroit and now San Francisco in convincing fashion. They're officially the team to beat in my opinion. 

We're not there yet. It was obvious last year, and it was obvious going into this year that we didn't do enough to improve the trenches on both sides. That's all it circles back to. We can't run the ball, we can't protect the QB long enough, we can't out scheme ourselves enough out of a wet paper bag and the defense is suffering in the secondary because if it's not Allen or Walker? 

Who else is threatening the QB? Nobody. So, it is what it is. Does Trevor need to play better and protect the football? Sure, at times, yes, we all agree on that. But, as a whole? This team has a long, long way to go to even dare have it's name mentioned with teams like Baltimore & San Francisco. 

It's not even close. I won't lose hope though just yet. Now, if they lose to Carolina? LOL. Different story. But, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I still have time to relax a bit.

It's crazy that, as bad as it's been, we're one of 9 team bottlenecked between 7 and 9 wins. This is the parity the League always wanted, everyone is .500 except a few teams to keep the money lines level.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Obviously, Trevor is not playing well.

The weird thing is, I saw the almighty Patrick Mahomes do the same kind of stuff yesterday. On one play, there was a muffed handoff to the running back which the Raiders picked up and ran in for a TD. And on the very next play, he threw a pick-6.

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Obviously, Trevor is not playing well. 

The weird thing is, I saw the almighty Patrick Mahomes do the same kind of stuff yesterday.  On one play, there was a muffed handoff to the running back which the Raiders picked up and ran in for a TD.  And on the very next play, he threw a pick-6.

MVPUrdy as well. It's almost like everyone is suffering similar problems because the college game doesn't develop offensive linemen.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

He is better than Brunell. Could you imagine Lawrence with Jimmy, McCardell and Freddy T... Good god.

Lawrence has tons of potential but don’t fall prey to recency bias. Brunell at his peak was considerably better than Lawrence is right now. He was surrounded by some talented players but he was more accurate and more mobile. He also seemed to be able to diagnose defenses better than Lawrence at this point.

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And an offensive line that can actually block.

If Trevor has been the QB here in 99 he'd have thrown twice as many TDs as Brunell did.

Doubtful. Because Taylor would have been scoring from the red zone.

100%, Trevor has the potential but he hasn't past Brunell as this franchises best QB.  He has to heal up and start playing better

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Obviously, Trevor is not playing well. 

The weird thing is, I saw the almighty Patrick Mahomes do the same kind of stuff yesterday.  On one play, there was a muffed handoff to the running back which the Raiders picked up and ran in for a TD.  And on the very next play, he threw a pick-6.

MVPUrdy as well. It's almost like everyone is suffering similar problems because the college game doesn't develop offensive linemen.

Ding, ding, ding!! That is the correct answer. Most teams just play spread O so they have no real run block or pass block ability.

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Lawrence has tons of potential but don’t fall prey to recency bias. Brunell at his peak was considerably better than Lawrence is right now. He was surrounded by some talented players but he was more accurate and more mobile. He also seemed to be able to diagnose defenses better than Lawrence at this point.

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Doubtful. Because Taylor would have been scoring from the red zone.

100%, Trevor has the potential but he hasn't past Brunell as this franchises best QB.  He has to heal up and start playing better

Mark also had the opportunity to sit and learn for two years in Green Bay before becoming a full time starter in year three of his career. It's kind of pointless though comparing these two guys.

Mark entered the NFL in 1993. That was a completely different era of football then, which is why I find Mark's career or earlier start in Jacksonville impressive. Defenders could still play defense in the 1990's, running the football was still considered the best way to execute in the NFL and only a handful of receivers were household names. 

They all excelled and did some pretty remarkable things back then. This team is somewhat similar, in a sense that, they're not dominating teams, yet, but, they were showing signs of moving up in the right direction.

9 - 7
11 - 5
11 - 5
14 - 2

This team is 9 - 8 and 8 - 7 for the time being. Different situations, different eras, but, the up's and down's are there, the learning curve is still there, the only difference is the coaching situations respectively and the way the game is played today. I say that last part, but, funny enough, the best teams in the NFL right now are good at running it at anybody. 

We have to get that figured out for Lawrence's sake.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

100%, Trevor has the potential but he hasn't past Brunell as this franchises best QB.  He has to heal up and start playing better

Mark also had the opportunity to sit and learn for two years in Green Bay before becoming a full time starter in year three of his career. It's kind of pointless though comparing these two guys.

Mark entered the NFL in 1993. That was a completely different era of football then, which is why I find Mark's career or earlier start in Jacksonville impressive. Defenders could still play defense in the 1990's, running the football was still considered the best way to execute in the NFL and only a handful of receivers were household names. 

They all excelled and did some pretty remarkable things back then. This team is somewhat similar, in a sense that, they're not dominating teams, yet, but, they were showing signs of moving up in the right direction.

9 - 7
11 - 5
11 - 5
14 - 2

This team is 9 - 8 and 8 - 7 for the time being. Different situations, different eras, but, the up's and down's are there, the learning curve is still there, the only difference is the coaching situations respectively and the way the game is played today. I say that last part, but, funny enough, the best teams in the NFL right now are good at running it at anybody. 

We have to get that figured out for Lawrence's sake.

Yes they are different,  Mark was also a 5th round pick while Trevor being the 1st overall pick.  Its rare you will see a 5th round pick comingbin and starting right away.  They are absolutely different but we were talking about Jags QBs, it's irrelevant what he did when he wasn't here.

  I agree though, the best teams with a chance to make it in the post season are the teams that can run the football and play defense. The offense has to be able to somewhat move the ball though to the the defense a break, something we can't do.  Hell, the game before last the defense gave the offense the ball 4 times in the first half inside the opponents 40 and the offense came away with zero points every time.

  I wonder if that's happened another time this season?  I doubt it.  That is demoralizing for the defense and they get worn down

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Laughable take. Brunell got us to the AFCCG .....twice.  Pre and post Freddy T.  Also, everything in post 3174.

It's a shame you can't see the talent difference between those teams on both sides of the ball. I think the 98 Jags linemen could whip this group tomorrow.

Brunell had a better team around him but he was a better QB at his peak than Trevor to this point. It’s not to say that Trevor doesn’t have the capacity to exceed Brunell at some point, he does but it hasn’t happened yet.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

It's a shame you can't see the talent difference between those teams on both sides of the ball. I think the 98 Jags linemen could whip this group tomorrow.

Brunell had a better team around him but he was a better QB at his peak than Trevor to this point. It’s not to say that Trevor doesn’t have the capacity to exceed Brunell at some point, he does but it hasn’t happened yet.

Exactly, Trevor is my favorite player and I wear his jersey when I go to the games put he hasn't past the player Mark was yet.  Hopefully he can next year

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Brunell never threw for more than 20 TDs (twice) in his entire career here.

In 96 when they made the first AFCCG, he had 22 Total TDs (19 Passing, 3 Rushing), 20 INT and 14 Fumbles that season.

In 99 when they made the second AFCCG, he had 15 Total TDs (14 Passing, 1 Rushing), 9 INT and 6 Fumbles that season.

Don't get me wrong, I love Brunell, but Lawrence is absolutely better than he was.

Comparing stats back than to now is pretty idiotic.

kinda like when people compare  peytons ints his first 2 years vs lawrence lol

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Brunell never threw for more than 20 TDs (twice) in his entire career here.

In 96 when they made the first AFCCG, he had 22 Total TDs (19 Passing, 3 Rushing), 20 INT and 14 Fumbles that season.

In 99 when they made the second AFCCG, he had 15 Total TDs (14 Passing, 1 Rushing), 9 INT and 6 Fumbles that season.

Don't get me wrong, I love Brunell, but Lawrence is absolutely better than he was.

Comparing stats back than to now is pretty idiotic.

Yeah, i didn't think one would have to say this lol. You can see who didn't watch both play and just looks at a stat sheet

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Darnold comes in for Purdy and moves them right down the field for an easy TD. Dare I say it.... Darnold for MVP?

Beathard should be starting for Purdy

haha.... 

I've got a good buddy who is a Niners fan and we've talked about how if Purdy and Lawrence had switched teams at the beginning of the year then both teams would be worse off.  Purdy is in a really unique position where the talent around him is top tier at almost all positions.  It's not fair to dismiss what he has done because you need a guy who is very accurate and an extremely quick decision maker to run that offense as well as he has.  But as we saw last night and in previous games when they had their losing streak, he hasn't done well outside that framework when the gameplan changes either due to injuries, being out physical-ed, or when just falling behind.  It feels like he needs that supporting cast but his skillset also seems like a great fit for that supporting cast.  While I think nearly every QB in the league would do better if they were the Niners QB because of all those great players, I don't think Lawrence would run it as well as Purdy has because Lawrence can lose his accuracy at times and not sure if he scans the field as quickly.

On the otherhand, I think Purdy would be a disaster as the Jags QB.  We have arguably the worst rushing attack in the league.  Statistically we are far and away the worst team in the league in running screens. Two things that the Niners thrive at and which are the basis of their entire offense.  There is nothing about his game that makes me think those two areas would be improved merely by having him as our QB.  And I'm picturing him on unfavorable down and distances having to avoid the pass rush while making throws down the field with WRs who statistically aren't great at getting separation and have a propensity to drop passes.  That is not playing to his strengths in the slightest and it'd be a terrible fit.

It's easy to look at stats and it's easy to come up with QB rankings, but realistically it is such a team game and every player is so reliant on the teammates around them, it's impossible to really say who is the best unless everyone is in a similar situation.  And even then, every QB has their own strengths and weaknesses and would perform differently depending on the offensive philosophy.  Even god king Mahomes all of a sudden looks more average and he still has per pff one of the top 5 pass blocking offensive lines, a hall of fame tight end, a hall of fame coach / offensive guru, and a running game that is still top half of the league in EPA.  But he finally gets stuck with a receiving core that doesnt have tyreek hill and the wheels are coming off.

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

Comparing stats back than to now is pretty idiotic.

kinda like when people compare  peytons ints his first 2 years vs lawrence lol

You should check out TD/INT ratios and INT % stats.
Those are virtually unaffected by "era" of play. 

Hint: You won't like the result because it takes a giant [BLEEP] all over your garbage QB takes

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96 Brunell was the best QB we've ever had. And 97-99 Brunell was a close second. Game was different back then as the mobile QB wasn't as much of a necessity but it was such a weapon when you had it.

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________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

kinda like when people compare  peytons ints his first 2 years vs lawrence lol

You should check out TD/INT ratios and INT % stats.
Those are virtually unaffected by "era" of play. 

Hint: You won't like the result because it takes a giant [BLEEP] all over your garbage QB takes

Considering the way WRs we're allowed to be mugged in the late 90's early 2000s I don't really give a rats [BLEEP] what the %'s say. 

What i'm saying makes plenty of sense, it's why our fanbase loves Mark Brunnell even tho his stats were abbysmal if you look at it with todays perspective his stats would suggest he was worse than Blake Bortles but we all know that's not true in reality. He was a good QB, but he didn't have the soft rules to protect him and his WRs like they do today.


PS

1988 (mannings rookie year) Only 2 starting QBs in the NFL had less than 10 ints (and both had 9)
This season, 13 qbs have less than 10.

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