Lawrence needs to work on a few things this off season:

1. Ball security.
2. Protecting himself in the field of play.
3. Being a bit more checkdown Charlie in games.

Other than that, he has everything else going for him. Size, athleticism, arm strength and toughness. I think there's actually a sweet spot for this kid too when it comes to pass attempts. When he had 29 or less pass attempts in 2023, they went 1 - 3. When he had 40 or more pass attempts, they went 0 - 5. When he had 30 - 39 pass attempts, they went 7 - 0.

They were 8 - 1 this past season when he had a QB rating of 90.0+ or higher, the one game they lost? It was the game he couldn't finish due to injury with the Bengals. He had six games this year with a QB rating of 100+.

I genuinely don't think he's the be all, end all issue on this football team, but, again, we've now asked this guy to play perfect football for two years in a row on a team with a head coach that has a gambling problem, his third offensive coordinator in a row, no running game and a below average offensive line.

He has plenty of space to work with before he reaches his ceiling. If Baalke can dig his head out of his [BLEEP], and, Taylor and Pederson can give the kid a break in the running game? I think we'll get a high end Alex Smith type football player out of him, the one where he stays with his original team and doesn't become a competent passer with his second stint elsewhere.

Couldn't disagree more with #3.

Once you turn him into checkdown Charlie, there is no reason to have him on the team. Just about any QB of the street can do that.

What makes Lawrence special is his ability to push the ball downfield (which this team couldn't do because the line was garbage) and hit those 2nd level windows. The second he stops doing that, he stops being special.

time and place
gotta know the situations
needs to be more aware of the situation and play the meta

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Lawrence needs to work on a few things this off season:

1. Ball security.
2. Protecting himself in the field of play.
3. Being a bit more checkdown Charlie in games.

Other than that, he has everything else going for him. Size, athleticism, arm strength and toughness. I think there's actually a sweet spot for this kid too when it comes to pass attempts. When he had 29 or less pass attempts in 2023, they went 1 - 3. When he had 40 or more pass attempts, they went 0 - 5. When he had 30 - 39 pass attempts, they went 7 - 0.

They were 8 - 1 this past season when he had a QB rating of 90.0+ or higher, the one game they lost? It was the game he couldn't finish due to injury with the Bengals. He had six games this year with a QB rating of 100+.

I genuinely don't think he's the be all, end all issue on this football team, but, again, we've now asked this guy to play perfect football for two years in a row on a team with a head coach that has a gambling problem, his third offensive coordinator in a row, no running game and a below average offensive line.

He has plenty of space to work with before he reaches his ceiling. If Baalke can dig his head out of his [BLEEP], and, Taylor and Pederson can give the kid a break in the running game? I think we'll get a high end Alex Smith type football player out of him, the one where he stays with his original team and doesn't become a competent passer with his second stint elsewhere.

Couldn't disagree more with #3.

Once you turn him into checkdown Charlie, there is no reason to have him on the team. Just about any QB of the street can do that.

What makes Lawrence special is his ability to push the ball downfield (which this team couldn't do because the line was garbage) and hit those 2nd level windows. The second he stops doing that, he stops being special.

I get what Caldrac is trying to say but trusting their arm and talent are what top QBs do. He had some insane throws in tight windows that got us 1st downs. 

For me, it's as simple as it's 3rd and 10. Do you want your QB to trust himself and throw a contested pass that could be a catch, first down, interception or just throw it away and punt?

I know what I'd want.

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Couldn't disagree more with #3.

Once you turn him into checkdown Charlie, there is no reason to have him on the team. Just about any QB of the street can do that.

What makes Lawrence special is his ability to push the ball downfield (which this team couldn't do because the line was garbage) and hit those 2nd level windows. The second he stops doing that, he stops being special.

time and place
gotta know the situations
needs to be more aware of the situation and play the meta

I agree but that comes with age. The dude is 24 years old.

I want my QB to be pushing the ball downfield and to those second levels more often that not. Once you start to hamper them, they become Alex Smith.

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No way dude.  Check out the interception numbers. 7 in the first 11 games then 7 in the last 5 games. Less than one INT per game then more than one INT per game.

His TD numbers were better during that stretch too. So was he better or worse?

In week 10 when we had a good record, he had 10 tds 7 ints and 6 fumbles.

Stop.

Bump since the nay sayers wanna ignore the stats.

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His TD numbers were better during that stretch too. So was he better or worse?

In week 10 when we had a good record, he had 10 tds 7 ints and 6 fumbles.

Stop.

Bump since the nay sayers wanna ignore the stats.

What do you think we should do?  Waive him?  Trade him?  
None of those things are going to happen, so, what is it that you are after here?  Or are you just enjoying an argument?

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Bump since the nay sayers wanna ignore the stats.

What do you think we should do?  Waive him?  Trade him?  
None of those things are going to happen, so, what is it that you are after here?  Or are you just enjoying an argument?

Stop pretending he's better than he is, and quit blaming Urban/WRs/Penalties/Ol/Press Taylor/WRs on his individual mistakes and just admit that there is no gurantee he's ever going to be elite. He's shown nothing to instill confidence through 3 seasons that say otherwise. 

Sure, he's young.. sure he could get better.. but it makes me cringe to listen to people like NEJAGSFAN and others pretending like he's perfect when he's not even be very good.

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His TD numbers were better during that stretch too. So was he better or worse?

In week 10 when we had a good record, he had 10 tds 7 ints and 6 fumbles.

Stop.

Bump since the nay sayers wanna ignore the stats.

Yes, bump it so you can go back through and re-read and respond to me which you've glossed over multiple times by quoting me and another poster in the same post and only responding to the other post.  Jameis Winston and Blake Bortles are your guys, right?  TD passes are the end all be all when evaluating QB play?  Not using your eyes, not looking at all passer stats together, not looking at statistical differences from the same player on the same team in the same year from one part of the year to another part.  Ignoring completion percentage, ignoring uptick in turnovers, that's the bump you looking for?

Hey, you don't have to agree it was the injury to Trevor.  I'm not saying definitively that it is because I'm not in his body and I don't know. You can say Kirk being out during the same stretch or some other factor contributed.  I don't really care, but this asinine point you're hammering isn't accomplishing what you think it is.  It only shows that you don't know how to interpret stats at best and that you redact inconvenient ones to push an agenda at worst.  Given your history here, I'm pretty sure I know which it is though it's probably both.  There were clear increases in negative metrics after the Bengals game and that is irrefutable.  I don't really care what you assign as the reason for that, but it is more likely than not it was at least partially due to the injury.

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Bump since the nay sayers wanna ignore the stats.

Yes, bump it so you can go back through and re-read and respond to me which you've glossed over multiple times by quoting me and another poster in the same post and only responding to the other post.  Jameis Winston and Blake Bortles are your guys, right?  TD passes are the end all be all when evaluating QB play?  Not using your eyes, not looking at all passer stats together, not looking at statistical differences from the same player on the same team in the same year from one part of the year to another part.  Ignoring completion percentage, ignoring uptick in turnovers, that's the bump you looking for?

Hey, you don't have to agree it was the injury to Trevor.  I'm not saying definitively that it is because I'm not in his body and I don't know. You can say Kirk being out during the same stretch or some other factor contributed.  I don't really care, but this asinine point you're hammering isn't accomplishing what you think it is.  It only shows that you don't know how to interpret stats at best and that you redact inconvenient ones to push an agenda at worst.  Given your history here, I'm pretty sure I know which it is though it's probably both.  There were clear increases in negative metrics after the Bengals game and that is irrefutable.  I don't really care what you assign as the reason for that, but it is more likely than not it was at least partially due to the injury.

It's okay if you want to say his injuries affected his play, but then shouldn't we start with New Orleans instead of the Bungles? Cause he came out and had a pretty good game directly after his first injury. But I guess that dosen't fit the narrative. 

You can argue his stats were slightly worse post-injury, but what you refuse to admit is that his stats pre-injury were also terrible. 

This is a passing league, and you got 10 TDs and 13 turnovers through 10 games? I mean come on.

---

Lawrence needs to work on a few things this off season:

1. Ball security.
2. Protecting himself in the field of play.
3. Being a bit more checkdown Charlie in games.

Other than that, he has everything else going for him. Size, athleticism, arm strength and toughness. I think there's actually a sweet spot for this kid too when it comes to pass attempts. When he had 29 or less pass attempts in 2023, they went 1 - 3. When he had 40 or more pass attempts, they went 0 - 5. When he had 30 - 39 pass attempts, they went 7 - 0.

They were 8 - 1 this past season when he had a QB rating of 90.0+ or higher, the one game they lost? It was the game he couldn't finish due to injury with the Bengals. He had six games this year with a QB rating of 100+.

I genuinely don't think he's the be all, end all issue on this football team, but, again, we've now asked this guy to play perfect football for two years in a row on a team with a head coach that has a gambling problem, his third offensive coordinator in a row, no running game and a below average offensive line.

He has plenty of space to work with before he reaches his ceiling. If Baalke can dig his head out of his [BLEEP], and, Taylor and Pederson can give the kid a break in the running game? I think we'll get a high end Alex Smith type football player out of him, the one where he stays with his original team and doesn't become a competent passer with his second stint elsewhere.

Couldn't disagree more with #3.

Once you turn him into checkdown Charlie, there is no reason to have him on the team. Just about any QB of the street can do that.

What makes Lawrence special is his ability to push the ball downfield (which this team couldn't do because the line was garbage) and hit those 2nd level windows. The second he stops doing that, he stops being special.

I said "a bit more" not, "drastically alter his aggressiveness and take the easy stuff routinely". My favorite thing I ever heard any NFL player say came from Peyton Manning when he was giving his brother Eli Manning advice on the day he was drafted.

"You want to respect these defenses in the NFL, but, you don't want to give them TOO much respect". 

That's how I view Lawrence. At the end of the day. He is who he is. He's a gunslinger. He has the confidence that he can make every throw and I really think he's proven that already in three years. He just has to learn how to dial it back in certain moments in the game. 

Take the 5, 10 yards underneath for an easy set of downs instead of bombing the damn thing downfield and missing out on more opportunities later on. There's a natural ebb and flow in this game for Quarterback's and they have to make a conscious effort towards realizing that in themselves.

These defenders and defensive coaches know your tendencies. They'll start taking away certain looks while catching onto the fact that you're not seeing the easy looks underneath or over the middle to keep them honest and on their toes. This is the part of his game where he needs to improve.

He had six games where he was perfect last year rating wise. Six games out of sixteen isn't bad, it's good, not elite. We need about nine to ten of those games out of him every year now and this team is golden. And he CAN do that. Getting six of those with no running game and limited time in the pocket is an accomplishment.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Yes, bump it so you can go back through and re-read and respond to me which you've glossed over multiple times by quoting me and another poster in the same post and only responding to the other post.  Jameis Winston and Blake Bortles are your guys, right?  TD passes are the end all be all when evaluating QB play?  Not using your eyes, not looking at all passer stats together, not looking at statistical differences from the same player on the same team in the same year from one part of the year to another part.  Ignoring completion percentage, ignoring uptick in turnovers, that's the bump you looking for?

Hey, you don't have to agree it was the injury to Trevor.  I'm not saying definitively that it is because I'm not in his body and I don't know. You can say Kirk being out during the same stretch or some other factor contributed.  I don't really care, but this asinine point you're hammering isn't accomplishing what you think it is.  It only shows that you don't know how to interpret stats at best and that you redact inconvenient ones to push an agenda at worst.  Given your history here, I'm pretty sure I know which it is though it's probably both.  There were clear increases in negative metrics after the Bengals game and that is irrefutable.  I don't really care what you assign as the reason for that, but it is more likely than not it was at least partially due to the injury.

It's okay if you want to say his injuries affected his play, but then shouldn't we start with New Orleans instead of the Bungles? Cause he came out and had a pretty good game directly after his first injury. But I guess that dosen't fit the narrative. 

You can argue his stats were slightly worse post-injury, but what you refuse to admit is that his stats pre-injury were also terrible. 

This is a passing league, and you got 10 TDs and 13 turnovers through 10 games? I mean come on.

Now all injuries are the same?  And now I've said he wasn't underwhelming on the year?   You're flailing dude.  Just concede the point that something made him play worse after the Bengals game and move on.  Like I said, I don't care if you assign it to the high ankle sprain.  You took issue with that point and have now sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic trying to plug all the holes in your logic.  Come up for air.

---

His TD numbers were better during that stretch too. So was he better or worse?

In week 10 when we had a good record, he had 10 tds 7 ints and 6 fumbles.

Stop.

Bump since the nay sayers wanna ignore the stats.

Chris: Trevor was basically the same guy all season! He's just mediocre in general!

Mike: No way.  His interceptions per game got way worse after the injury.

Chris: But his touchdowns per game got better at the same time!

Mike: So there's two differences.  They don't directly cancel out.  They speak to a different mindset and strategy.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

It's okay if you want to say his injuries affected his play, but then shouldn't we start with New Orleans instead of the Bungles? Cause he came out and had a pretty good game directly after his first injury. But I guess that dosen't fit the narrative. 

You can argue his stats were slightly worse post-injury, but what you refuse to admit is that his stats pre-injury were also terrible. 

This is a passing league, and you got 10 TDs and 13 turnovers through 10 games? I mean come on.

Now all injuries are the same?  And now I've said he wasn't underwhelming on the year?   You're flailing dude.  Just concede the point that something made him play worse after the Bengals game and move on.  Like I said, I don't care if you assign it to the high ankle sprain.  You took issue with that point and have now sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic trying to plug all the holes in your logic.  Come up for air.

Because the point being made by many here, not specfically yourself was that his injuries are what caused his "downward spiral" and caused us to go from 8-3 to 9-8 when he's been effectively the same guy all year and the difference was the defense not him. 

Some people here actually think he was elite and the reason we were 8-3 even tho he had something like 12 tds 7 ints 7 fumbles around that record. Laughable.

---

Now all injuries are the same?  And now I've said he wasn't underwhelming on the year?   You're flailing dude.  Just concede the point that something made him play worse after the Bengals game and move on.  Like I said, I don't care if you assign it to the high ankle sprain.  You took issue with that point and have now sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic trying to plug all the holes in your logic.  Come up for air.

Because the point being made by many here, not specfically yourself was that his injuries are what caused his "downward spiral" and caused us to go from 8-3 to 9-8 when he's been effectively the same guy all year and the difference was the defense not him. 

Some people here actually think he was elite and the reason we were 8-3 even tho he had something like 12 tds 7 ints 7 fumbles around that record. Laughable.

We went from 8-3 to 9-8 because our defense played like [BLEEP] in the Ohio games and because we couldn't run the ball effectively once San Fran showed everyone how easy it was to stop us. Your stupid Strikeout shows your true colors, you poser.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

What do you think we should do?  Waive him?  Trade him?  
None of those things are going to happen, so, what is it that you are after here?  Or are you just enjoying an argument?

Stop pretending he's better than he is, and quit blaming Urban/WRs/Penalties/Ol/Press Taylor/WRs on his individual mistakes and just admit that there is no gurantee he's ever going to be elite. He's shown nothing to instill confidence through 3 seasons that say otherwise. 

Sure, he's young.. sure he could get better.. but it makes me cringe to listen to people like NEJAGSFAN and others pretending like he's perfect when he's not even be very good.

This will never happen.  People disagree with you.  And they're not going to change their minds.  

 Do you understand that?

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What do you think we should do?  Waive him?  Trade him?  
None of those things are going to happen, so, what is it that you are after here?  Or are you just enjoying an argument?

Stop pretending he's better than he is, and quit blaming Urban/WRs/Penalties/Ol/Press Taylor/WRs on his individual mistakes and just admit that there is no gurantee he's ever going to be elite. He's shown nothing to instill confidence through 3 seasons that say otherwise. 

Sure, he's young.. sure he could get better.. but it makes me cringe to listen to people like NEJAGSFAN and others pretending like he's perfect when he's not even be very good.

He's elite already.   This team has a lot of issues that he covers up.

---

Now all injuries are the same?  And now I've said he wasn't underwhelming on the year?   You're flailing dude.  Just concede the point that something made him play worse after the Bengals game and move on.  Like I said, I don't care if you assign it to the high ankle sprain.  You took issue with that point and have now sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic trying to plug all the holes in your logic.  Come up for air.

Because the point being made by many here, not specfically yourself was that his injuries are what caused his "downward spiral" and caused us to go from 8-3 to 9-8 when he's been effectively the same guy all year and the difference was the defense not him. 

Some people here actually think he was elite and the reason we were 8-3 even tho he had something like 12 tds 7 ints 7 fumbles around that record. Laughable.

I'm the one that brought the statistical change in his play to the board.  I don't recall anyone saying it all went downhill for him after the injury, if so, call them out. I only said that such an injury affected him and very likely contributed to our fortunes down the stretch as we were in all but the bucs game into the 4th quarter.  So a more accurate pass here or there might've made the difference in a TD or a 1st down or in the results of the game.  It in no way exonerates the defense which had fallen off a cliff down the stretch.  All phases contribute.  The argument was either lost on you or ignored.  I firmly believe we win the Bengals game had he not gotten injured despite the defense and if so, we'd be in the playoffs right now and would be having much different conversations.

---

Because the point being made by many here, not specfically yourself was that his injuries are what caused his "downward spiral" and caused us to go from 8-3 to 9-8 when he's been effectively the same guy all year and the difference was the defense not him. 

Some people here actually think he was elite and the reason we were 8-3 even tho he had something like 12 tds 7 ints 7 fumbles around that record. Laughable.

We went from 8-3 to 9-8 because our defense played like [BLEEP] in the Ohio games and because we couldn't run the ball effectively once San Fran showed everyone how easy it was to stop us. Your stupid Strikeout shows your true colors, you poser.

We were 8-3 because our defense forced 25 turnovers and was playing really well early on. We stopped winning when they stopped playing well. 

Lawrence was hardly a factor win-lose-draw.

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Because the point being made by many here, not specfically yourself was that his injuries are what caused his "downward spiral" and caused us to go from 8-3 to 9-8 when he's been effectively the same guy all year and the difference was the defense not him. 

Some people here actually think he was elite and the reason we were 8-3 even tho he had something like 12 tds 7 ints 7 fumbles around that record. Laughable.

We went from 8-3 to 9-8 because our defense played like [BLEEP] in the Ohio games and because we couldn't run the ball effectively once San Fran showed everyone how easy it was to stop us. Your stupid Strikeout shows your true colors, you poser.

Weeks 1-12- 12th in PPGA (20.45 PPGA)
Weeks 13-18- 26th in PPGA (24.3 PPGA) and this includes the Panthers game which is a joke. This also included giving up 34 to Browning, 31 to Flacco, 30 to Baker and 28 to Ryan friggin Tannehill.

Weeks 1-12- 23 PPG
Weeks 13-18- 20.5 PPG

The offense sure had its down points but the reason this team isn't in the playoffs is because of the defense. They fell off a cliff.

They scored 31 or more in 5 of their first 12 games (before Trevor got injured in the Bengals game)

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A consistent theme for Trevor that even announcers called out frequently is his lack of field scanning. He fixates on 1 receiver and stares them down while missing wide open receivers elsewhere. That is a huge miss.

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Here we go again

A consistent theme for Trevor that even announcers called out frequently is his lack of field scanning. He fixates on 1 receiver and stares them down while missing wide open receivers elsewhere. That is a huge miss.

I don't recall hearing that "frequently" from announcers or even much at all though I don't always re-watch the home games on TV.

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