From Tampa media

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/bucs/202...-practice/

Amazing the different perspective looking from the Buc's point of view.  So, a glimmer of hope. What I heard from my source was our o-line held it's own during 1 on 1's then during 11 on 11 they had big trouble handling Vita Vea.  A nice way of saying the middle got pushed around. Since Chris Jones did not play for the Chiefs last week most likely the first time some of our O-line had to deal with a guy like that.

Like the article says, it will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

I’m am no Baalke supporter, but why does this all fall on him?  I thought Pederson was supposed to have equal say on the roster.

Traditionally Baalke would be in charge of how much "say" Pederson has...and at the end of the day there is not such thing as "equal" say; sooner or later it's going to come down to option A or B.  Whomever decides that option is the one with final say.  IMO it should be the GM, I've seen way to many cases of Head Coaches getting control of the roster then ruining the franchise.

Yeah - that's not how it works here. 

Ownership mandated that Baalke collaborate with Pederson and his staff on personnel decisions and he appears to give deference to the super bowl winning HC. This is not a traditional FO/HC scenario. And as the years fly by, the number of franchises with that well known traditional hierarchy dwindle progressively. 

The Jags situation is a direct result of Khan having been bitten squarely in the backside twice when he gave a FO full control (the return of Coughlin debacle) and then he overcorrected giving a HC full control (Urban Meyer debacle).

His "fix" was a coach respected enough that he can force his GM to work in a collaborative effort with the coach - with probably some minor chiming in from ownership affecting the final say in moments of disagreements.

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I wanted all offense in this past draft. BTJ is looking good but what’s Maason Smith doing? Jefferson?

Those should have been IOL. Frazier. Puni.

I’m willing to see it play out but they keep bringing Shatley back and he stinks. Fortner stinks. Cleveland looks soft. Scherff (although a good pass blocker) stinks at run blocking. Anton is by get the best OL on the team and he’s a second year player.

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I wanted all offense in this past draft. BTJ is looking good but what’s Maason Smith doing? Jefferson?

Those should have been IOL. Frazier. Puni.

I’m willing to see it play out but they keep bringing Shatley back and he stinks. Fortner stinks. Cleveland looks soft. Scherff (although a good pass blocker) stinks at run blocking. Anton is by get the best OL on the team and he’s a second year player.

They have an issue at backup center, will be interesting to see how it is solved.  They kept 8 OL last year. The first 5 - Cam Robinson, Ezra Cleveland, Mitch Morse, Brandon Scherff, Anton Harrison.  That leaves Walker Little, Cooper Hodges, Javon Foster filling out the eight. I do not expect Shatley or Fortner on the 53, maybe the practice squad. Who knows someone may snatch Fortner from our practice squad....

PS  Jawaan Taylor with a $24.7 million cap number is the Chiefs 3rd highest cap hit.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

how many times did Travon whiff on the QB?

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I wanted all offense in this past draft. BTJ is looking good but what’s Maason Smith doing? Jefferson?

Those should have been IOL. Frazier. Puni.

I’m willing to see it play out but they keep bringing Shatley back and he stinks. Fortner stinks. Cleveland looks soft. Scherff (although a good pass blocker) stinks at run blocking. Anton is by get the best OL on the team and he’s a second year player.

They have an issue at backup center, will be interesting to see how it is solved.  They kept 8 OL last year. The first 5 - Cam Robinson, Ezra Cleveland, Mitch Morse, Brandon Scherff, Anton Harrison.  That leaves Walker Little, Cooper Hodges, Javon Foster filling out the eight. I do not expect Shatley or Fortner on the 53, maybe the practice squad. Who knows someone may snatch Fortner from our practice squad....

PS  Jawaan Taylor with a $24.7 million cap number is the Chiefs 3rd highest cap hit.

and he's injured.

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I'm not defending Baalke but the amount of quality oline players in the league is so low. Probably the lowest skill position wise. We seem to have hoped that Morse and some coaching could get this unit better and I'm hoping dags like today and getting better and can be a functional unit when the real games kick in.

But yeah....its a worry and the coaching staff need to find a way to make it work as it won't matter how many deep threats we have if Lawrence is under pressure after 2 seconds.

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I wanted all offense in this past draft. BTJ is looking good but what’s Maason Smith doing? Jefferson?

They're being rookies in the first weeks of their careers? Why do we do this every year with our rookie class?

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I wanted all offense in this past draft. BTJ is looking good but what’s Maason Smith doing? Jefferson?

Those should have been IOL. Frazier. Puni.

I’m willing to see it play out but they keep bringing Shatley back and he stinks. Fortner stinks. Cleveland looks soft. Scherff (although a good pass blocker) stinks at run blocking. Anton is by get the best OL on the team and he’s a second year player.

They have an issue at backup center, will be interesting to see how it is solved.  They kept 8 OL last year. The first 5 - Cam Robinson, Ezra Cleveland, Mitch Morse, Brandon Scherff, Anton Harrison.  That leaves Walker Little, Cooper Hodges, Javon Foster filling out the eight. I do not expect Shatley or Fortner on the 53, maybe the practice squad. Who knows someone may snatch Fortner from our practice squad....

PS  Jawaan Taylor with a $24.7 million cap number is the Chiefs 3rd highest cap hit.

DiRocco said yesterday that they are really comfortable with Blake Hance backing up 3 positions, so that's the 9th guy. It's likely Shatley is gone and I still think Fortner could be traded. The issue is there's no center depth there, and that's what works the other way with those two. Not getting our next center last spring is going to bite us, I just feel it.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I wanted all offense in this past draft. BTJ is looking good but what’s Maason Smith doing? Jefferson?

They're being rookies in the first weeks of their careers? Why do we do this every year with our rookie class?

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They have an issue at backup center, will be interesting to see how it is solved.  They kept 8 OL last year. The first 5 - Cam Robinson, Ezra Cleveland, Mitch Morse, Brandon Scherff, Anton Harrison.  That leaves Walker Little, Cooper Hodges, Javon Foster filling out the eight. I do not expect Shatley or Fortner on the 53, maybe the practice squad. Who knows someone may snatch Fortner from our practice squad....

PS  Jawaan Taylor with a $24.7 million cap number is the Chiefs 3rd highest cap hit.

DiRocco said yesterday that they are really comfortable with Blake Hance backing up 3 positions, so that's the 9th guy. It's likely Shatley is gone and I still think Fortner could be traded. The issue is there's no center depth there, and that's what works the other way with those two. Not getting our next center last spring is going to bite us, I just feel it.

I’m going to let it play out. Maason Smith may turn out being very good but Baalke has a massive infatuation with the DL. I wish he had that same infatuation with the IOL. He signed Morse but then left it alone. He signed Armstead but then picked Smith and Jefferson?

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From Tampa media

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/bucs/202...-practice/

"If there was a bright spot, it was the Bucs' defensive front.

Kancey and Diaby, two of the Bucs' best young defenders, did not practice. 

But, Vita Vea pushed the pocket into Lawrence's lap several times. While he was doing that, the Bucs got some good rushes off the edge that would have resulted in sacks on Lawrence about a half-doze times". 

Alabama's rookie outside linebacker Chris Braswell was among those consistently getting to Jacksonville's quarterbacks".

Sounds an awful like last year's struggles within the interior. And, that was without two of their best rushers from last year practicing. The half a dozen sack comment jives with what John Shipley also twitted out yesterday with what he saw. 

So, sorry to piss in everybody's cornflake's, but, getting excited about those long passes to BTJ are not worth the time since it's possible Lawrence is eating the turf on those long developing plays. 

Again, I cited it yesterday. It's not like the Bucs have a soft defense. They were the 7th best overall unit last year in the NFL and they racked up 48 sacks, which averages out to nearly 3 sacks per game. 

Not bad. 

We're in for another long season I fear. After the run blocking effort looking suspect in the preseason opener, and now this type of [BLEEP] being reported during joint practices? Not too thrilled about the starting line up and the depth. Again, going back to Mac Jones eating [BLEEP], thanks to Fortner not having his head out of his [BLEEP] against lesser competion that he's faced in three years, it's a concern. 

The only silver lining I have is that, at least for now, on paper? Our schedule is not nearly as brutal as it was last year, so, if they can muster a 10 win season with this same [BLEEP] offensive line production? We might sneak into the post season as a divisional champion or 7th seed. 

Keep in mind. The Bengals and Jets should be better this year with a healthier Burrow and Rodgers back in the mix, which, again, funny enough, they have the same [BLEEP] concerns with their pass protection as well. So... fun, fun.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Might be a long season. Banking on the idea that all we needed was a replacement at center and when healthy everyone else being really good was a bit of a gamble. First can't predict the health part and second no guarantee they're all that good when healthy. Not like we had to give up much to get Cleveland.

Cleveland was available last year because he was hurt. He is now supposed to be healthy.

Also they didn't just do nothing beside signing Morse. They were expecting development of Anton Harrison as a 2nd year, and apparently some development from Hodges and possibly Little. Internal scouting is often more important than outside scouting. 

Plus it's not like they had a lot of salary cap room to work with to bring in more than Morse, especially since they had to sign a guy like Gabe Thomas in case they weren't able to draft a guy like BTJ.

we had darft picks in a year that was overflowing with line help, especially on the interior. We had a previously darfted WR/return guy(Washington), signed a WR/return guy(Duvernay), and darfted a KR specialist who's been out of commission(Robinson). We doubled down on DT (not entirely upset over this but it did overspend on one position over the other). There was PLENTY of opportunity to address the matter in a quality way. We chose not to.

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Cleveland was available last year because he was hurt. He is now supposed to be healthy.

Also they didn't just do nothing beside signing Morse. They were expecting development of Anton Harrison as a 2nd year, and apparently some development from Hodges and possibly Little. Internal scouting is often more important than outside scouting. 

Plus it's not like they had a lot of salary cap room to work with to bring in more than Morse, especially since they had to sign a guy like Gabe Thomas in case they weren't able to draft a guy like BTJ.

we had darft picks in a year that was overflowing with line help, especially on the interior. We had a previously darfted WR/return guy(Washington), signed a WR/return guy(Duvernay), and darfted a KR specialist who's been out of commission(Robinson). We doubled down on DT (not entirely upset over this but it did overspend on one position over the other). There was PLENTY of opportunity to address the matter in a quality way. We chose not to.

Yup. We took Jordan Jefferson over the following offensive lineman:

Offensive Center: Tanor Bortolini
Offensive Center: Sedrick Van Pran 
Offensive Guard: Mason McCormick

We took Maason Smith in RD2 over the following offensive lineman:

Offensive Center: Zach Frazier
Offensive Tackle/Guard: Patrick Paul
Offensive Tackle: Roger Rosengarten
Offensive Guard: Kingsley Suamataia

It'll be interesting how all of these players fair as rookies. The Maason Smith selection I can find the most forgiving. All things considered, Smith was once billed a top first round selection and his last year at LSU we slowly started seeing the player he could be in the pass rushing department coming off of his injury. Think he had top honors, or, was at least top three in pressures from his position last year. 

It's the Jordan Jefferson selection that kind of surprised me. I was okay with the Javon Foster selection, but, man, I would have been really happy with Bortolini or Van Pran as a potential back-up Center with starting potential, as, they have the traits to start at this level. McCormick was also a guy I liked. I looked at him as this year's Cody Mauch type project. 

Either way, if this offensive line continues to backslide in run blocking and they [BLEEP] the bed in pass protection, it'll fall back on this front office and coaching staff resting it's laurel's on just adding Morse via free agency and Foster via the draft. 

I do have some hope for Steven Jones though out of Oregon. Was happy to see him picked up as an UDFA. He was out last week with the calf injury, but, it'll be fun seeing him at some point hopefully at 6'5, 340. I believe that would make him one of the biggest, if not, the biggest offensive lineman we currently have on the roster. Something we probably need out there.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Unless something improves with the O line soon, it's going to be a disappointing and injury riddled (Lawrence) season.

Shad Khan laid out $275M for a QB but allows a brain-dead GM to leave him unprotected for yet another season. It's baffling.

I’m am no Baalke supporter, but why does this all fall on him?  I thought Pederson was supposed to have equal say on the roster.

The GM should be held responsible for making the judgment calls. The coach may have influence regarding who to bring in (or not to), but at the end of the day the GM should be the one taking into account the coach's input, the scouts' analysis, and the GM's own experience regarding the state of the roster and the plan to improve when making decisions.

If coach told GM that the linemen we got are fine and we'll improve without making major changes, it's still on the GM for choosing to side with the coach, especially if he is in disagreement with the coach's assessment. At that point, the question becomes whether you should be allowing coach's voice to have equal say, if you believe his opinion to be flawed.

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I’m am no Baalke supporter, but why does this all fall on him?  I thought Pederson was supposed to have equal say on the roster.

The GM should be held responsible for making the judgment calls. The coach may have influence regarding who to bring in (or not to), but at the end of the day the GM should be the one taking into account the coach's input, the scouts' analysis, and the GM's own experience regarding the state of the roster and the plan to improve when making decisions.

If coach told GM that the linemen we got are fine and we'll improve without making major changes, it's still on the GM for choosing to side with the coach, especially if he is in disagreement with the coach's assessment. At that point, the question becomes whether you should be allowing coach's voice to have equal say, if you believe his opinion to be flawed.

I think if you have a need on the offensive line and the defensive line, which we did have, and then if hypothetically the coach says the offensive line is fine, then the GM pretty much has to draft defensive line.

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I’m am no Baalke supporter, but why does this all fall on him?  I thought Pederson was supposed to have equal say on the roster.

The GM should be held responsible for making the judgment calls. The coach may have influence regarding who to bring in (or not to), but at the end of the day the GM should be the one taking into account the coach's input, the scouts' analysis, and the GM's own experience regarding the state of the roster and the plan to improve when making decisions.

If coach told GM that the linemen we got are fine and we'll improve without making major changes, it's still on the GM for choosing to side with the coach, especially if he is in disagreement with the coach's assessment. At that point, the question becomes whether you should be allowing coach's voice to have equal say, if you believe his opinion to be flawed.

This is why I keep harping on a legitimate Vice President of Football Operations. There needs to be an overseer for these two aspects of the franchise. We saw a little bit of finger pointing at the beginning of the year between Baalke and Pederson. It was just done and said in a professional manner and a lot of people probably didn't make much noise out of it.

Baalke basically said that the coaching staff also has to coach up and develop the players he's providing towards this roster. I can't remember the exact question that incited that response, however, it had something to do with the offensive line play I believe from one of the reporters that day. 

But, again, a lot of this [BLEEP] can be put to rest with one more person in charge that knows what the [BLEEP] they're doing and can keep everybody in line and ultimately has the final say and power to override anybody in the room when they feel it necessary to do so. 

Good chance we would have seen different outcomes in the past two drafts, especially in the mid to late rounds where we could have made some improvements to the trenches instead of double dipping at positions that made no sense then as they make no sense now. Such as the RB selections and the LB selections. 

Traded up for Snoop at RB while bypassing on offensive lineman like Jamaree Salyer and Braxton Jones. And a number of other guys throughout the 3rd day that have provided at least 25+ games played for their respective teams.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Josh Allen had some nice comments re: Maason Smith.

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From Tampa media

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/bucs/202...-practice/

I find it interesting that reports from both perspectives seem disappointed.

Our report was that we couldn't block dook, theirs is that we ripped the top off their D.

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The GM should be held responsible for making the judgment calls. The coach may have influence regarding who to bring in (or not to), but at the end of the day the GM should be the one taking into account the coach's input, the scouts' analysis, and the GM's own experience regarding the state of the roster and the plan to improve when making decisions.

If coach told GM that the linemen we got are fine and we'll improve without making major changes, it's still on the GM for choosing to side with the coach, especially if he is in disagreement with the coach's assessment. At that point, the question becomes whether you should be allowing coach's voice to have equal say, if you believe his opinion to be flawed.

I think if you have a need on the offensive line and the defensive line, which we did have, and then if hypothetically the coach says the offensive line is fine, then the GM pretty much has to draft defensive line.

If as you say we had a need on the line, I put the GM's head on the block for taking the coach blindly at his word and failing to properly assess the state of the team.

Not to say the coach isn't also accountable for his poor assessment, but at the end of the day the GM's responsibility is the roster and team management. The coach's job is to guide the team to wins on Sunday.

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The GM should be held responsible for making the judgment calls. The coach may have influence regarding who to bring in (or not to), but at the end of the day the GM should be the one taking into account the coach's input, the scouts' analysis, and the GM's own experience regarding the state of the roster and the plan to improve when making decisions.

If coach told GM that the linemen we got are fine and we'll improve without making major changes, it's still on the GM for choosing to side with the coach, especially if he is in disagreement with the coach's assessment. At that point, the question becomes whether you should be allowing coach's voice to have equal say, if you believe his opinion to be flawed.

This is why I keep harping on a legitimate Vice President of Football Operations. There needs to be an overseer for these two aspects of the franchise. We saw a little bit of finger pointing at the beginning of the year between Baalke and Pederson. It was just done and said in a professional manner and a lot of people probably didn't make much noise out of it.

Baalke basically said that the coaching staff also has to coach up and develop the players he's providing towards this roster. I can't remember the exact question that incited that response, however, it had something to do with the offensive line play I believe from one of the reporters that day. 

But, again, a lot of this [BLEEP] can be put to rest with one more person in charge that knows what the [BLEEP] they're doing and can keep everybody in line and ultimately has the final say and power to override anybody in the room when they feel it necessary to do so. 

Good chance we would have seen different outcomes in the past two drafts, especially in the mid to late rounds where we could have made some improvements to the trenches instead of double dipping at positions that made no sense then as they make no sense now. Such as the RB selections and the LB selections. 

Traded up for Snoop at RB while bypassing on offensive lineman like Jamaree Salyer and Braxton Jones. And a number of other guys throughout the 3rd day that have provided at least 25+ games played for their respective teams.

I am fine with the idea of an EVP. However, not fine with the old farts that have been named. We already failed with TC, and recent posts have suggested Ozzie (he'll never leave BAL IMO), Belicheat (only as good as his GOAT of a QB, never really had an eye for talent and 72), Carroll (also 72, how much him vs. Schneider?)

If you're gonna go that route, I'd rather do it with someone who isn't walking into the sunset. I'd give anything to have been a fly on the wall for the past few offseasons and some of the darft decisions they've made. Seems so apparent to the casual fan, you can't fathom why they don't see the same.

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I think we all agree that the line has been neglected, but they did make some improvements, so let's see how it goes for a few games before we write off the whole season.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

https://twitter.com/fantasticm50886/stat...915L-t18Xg

Absolutely COOKED

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