That punt was perfection
It was such a jags moment it wasn't even funny

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That punt was perfection
It was such a jags moment it wasn't even funny

Just cause jags luck is yuck.

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I get it that the old school folks want to blame the O-Line exclusively. I'd just like to point out that there are many teams that have just as bad O-Lines as ours, but they can disguise those weaknesses with game planning and schemes, along with sound play calling based on scenarios (down, distance, score, etc).

Pederson seemed to have figured that all out in 2022. We expected the same and better in 2023. Instead, we regressed. And in 2024 we look even worse. At some point you have to acknlowledge that the O-Line has been what is has been for the last 3 or 4 years. And yet, we were great in 2022. Since then, not so much.

Yeah, blame Baalke. But the ingredients have been there same as 2022. But something changed in 2023 and continues in 2024. I'm sorry, but if it's because Pederson decided to let go of the offense and let his OC do his thing, then it's time to reconsider things.

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I get it that the old school folks want to blame the O-Line exclusively.  I'd just like to point out that there are many teams that have just as bad O-Lines as ours, but they can disguise those weaknesses with game planning and schemes, along with sound play calling based on scenarios (down, distance, score, etc).

Pederson seemed to have figured that all out in 2022.  We expected the same and better in 2023.  Instead, we regressed.  And in 2024 we look even worse.  At some point you have to acknlowledge that the O-Line has been what is has been for the last 3 or 4 years.  And yet, we were great in 2022.  Since then, not so much.

Yeah, blame Baalke.  But the ingredients have been there same as 2022.  But something changed in 2023 and continues in 2024.  I'm sorry, but if it's because Pederson decided to let go of the offense and let his OC do his thing, then it's time to reconsider things.

You know that is a good point. I’m listening to Jags happy hour and Tony Boselli makes a very good point. O line play in the NFL is at an all time low.. and because of that you are seeing QB play is at an all time low to start 2024… if you look around the league QB and O Line play is very very alarming. 

Boselli mentioned that in our joint practices against the bucs we had one day in pads and then one day in helmets only… says the trenches got no better that second day they might as well have just had chairs out there. And that in general NFL teams don’t prepare themselves for the physicality of the league.

The best coaching staff and teams will solve this problem the fastest and get it together in time to make a deep run…

Don’t think that’s our staff though. And I hope our team hasn’t fallen into here we go again mode whenever something bad happens because then the season is over.

I think we might already be there though.

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That was either a big play, or the game winning TD if our bum [BLEEP] OL could block for even a second. BTJ was WIDE open.

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I get it that the old school folks want to blame the O-Line exclusively.  I'd just like to point out that there are many teams that have just as bad O-Lines as ours, but they can disguise those weaknesses with game planning and schemes, along with sound play calling based on scenarios (down, distance, score, etc).

Pederson seemed to have figured that all out in 2022.  We expected the same and better in 2023.  Instead, we regressed.  And in 2024 we look even worse.  At some point you have to acknlowledge that the O-Line has been what is has been for the last 3 or 4 years.  And yet, we were great in 2022.  Since then, not so much.

Yeah, blame Baalke.  But the ingredients have been there same as 2022.  But something changed in 2023 and continues in 2024.  I'm sorry, but if it's because Pederson decided to let go of the offense and let his OC do his thing, then it's time to reconsider things.

You know that is a good point. I’m listening to Jags happy hour and Tony Boselli makes a very good point. O line play in the NFL is at an all time low.. and because of that you are seeing QB play is at an all time low to start 2024… if you look around the league QB and O Line play is very very alarming. 

Boselli mentioned that in our joint practices against the bucs we had one day in pads and then one day in helmets only… says the trenches got no better that second day they might as well have just had chairs out there. And that in general NFL teams don’t prepare themselves for the physicality of the league.

The best coaching staff and teams will solve this problem the fastest and get it together in time to make a deep run…

Don’t think that’s our staff though. And I hope our team hasn’t fallen into here we go again mode whenever something bad happens because then the season is over.

I think we might already be there though.

I listened to Boselli this morning as I was starting work.  From what I could listen to, he still want's to lay blame solely on the O-Line.  But I think your point is correct.  Training camp and pre-season doesn't really prepare a Line for what's to come in the regular season.

But that's just an excuse for the coaching staff, in my opinion.  Yeah, we're not the greatest O-Line.  I checked PFF, and they had us as the 24th O-Line after our loss to the Dolphins.  But man, we still were good moving the ball until the fumble.

It's the job of the HC/OC to scheme up and game plan a way to get the best out of your players.  And trust me...  If you can't get a play off untill the clock is down to 1 second left, and if you continiously run on 1st and 2nd down, that's not helping your mediocre/suspect O-Line.  Especially when you have speed with BTJ, you have reliability with Gabe and Kirk, and you have a RB that can help out too.

To me, it feels like a more passionate HC/OC would be able to make this offense work.  Trevor Lawrence has the talent.  But they are only letting him do his thing in the most dire of circumstances every game.  There's no consistency with this offense, other than failure on 1st and 2nd.  And then we are asking Lawrence to pull a rabbit out his hat.

There's no magic coming from that type of inept coaching.

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No, you're missing the point. This thread is about that one play. On that one play what you're claiming would've helped wouldn't have mattered. Robinson took Garrett around Lawrence out of the play, actually pretty well all things considered. Wright beat Cleveland with the swim and left him flat footed and then went right by Morse to Lawrence. What would've helped is if the two guys blocking the one guy had...blocked the one guy. That's it. That's the whole enchilada. They doubled a guy and he got the safety anyway. Had they kept a back or tight end in the formation they would've been looking the other way anyway because double team blocks AREN'T SUPPOSED TO FAIL IN 0.65 SECONDS.

O brother. I can see that I’m only going to be talking to a brick wall here… ok sportsgod… you win the argument.. I’ll go ahead and direct my comments to people who actually seem to understand that I’m referencing the bigger picture here through this particular play and not just the play itself.

Then take it to the right thread instead of the one about a single specific play. There's at least two going on right now.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You know that is a good point. I’m listening to Jags happy hour and Tony Boselli makes a very good point. O line play in the NFL is at an all time low.. and because of that you are seeing QB play is at an all time low to start 2024… if you look around the league QB and O Line play is very very alarming. 

Boselli mentioned that in our joint practices against the bucs we had one day in pads and then one day in helmets only… says the trenches got no better that second day they might as well have just had chairs out there. And that in general NFL teams don’t prepare themselves for the physicality of the league.

The best coaching staff and teams will solve this problem the fastest and get it together in time to make a deep run…

Don’t think that’s our staff though. And I hope our team hasn’t fallen into here we go again mode whenever something bad happens because then the season is over.

I think we might already be there though.

I listened to Boselli this morning as I was starting work.  From what I could listen to, he still want's to lay blame solely on the O-Line.  But I think your point is correct.  Training camp and pre-season doesn't really prepare a Line for what's to come in the regular season.

But that's just an excuse for the coaching staff, in my opinion.  Yeah, we're not the greatest O-Line.  I checked PFF, and they had us as the 24th O-Line after our loss to the Dolphins.  But man, we still were good moving the ball until the fumble.

It's the job of the HC/OC to scheme up and game plan a way to get the best out of your players.  And trust me...  If you can't get a play off untill the clock is down to 1 second left, and if you continiously run on 1st and 2nd down, that's not helping your mediocre/suspect O-Line.  Especially when you have speed with BTJ, you have reliability with Gabe and Kirk, and you have a RB that can help out too.

To me, it feels like a more passionate HC/OC would be able to make this offense work.  Trevor Lawrence has the talent.  But they are only letting him do his thing in the most dire of circumstances every game.  There's no consistency with this offense, other than failure on 1st and 2nd.  And then we are asking Lawrence to pull a rabbit out his hat.

There's no magic coming from that type of inept coaching.

Certainly feels that way… you can see the coaches in this league who do a great job designing plays for their guys to get the ball.. or schemes that slow down a pass rush or divert the eyes of the second level defenders.. I know a lot of people have already mentioned this but it just feels like we have to work so hard to try and get our top guys the ball. 

And also to that point if you know we are weak in an area then do something about it. We talked all weak about knowing where Myles garrett was, having a plan in place, and understanding that their style of defense is to stop the run on the way to rushing the quarterback and what do we do? We consistently isolate our guys against their top rushers and hope for the best? 

I mean this is all coaching which is the point of the whole thread. If you don’t stand a chance of protecting it then it is not a good play it doesn’t matter how it draws up on paper.

Cover all your bases and protect the Franchise QB at minimum and then if you have a good plan in place and you get beat one on one then you did all you could. 

But when you don’t give your guys a chance to succeed well that’s coaching.

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Speaks to the ineptitude of the Play caller and coaching staff.

 And who is the play caller these days?
Doug to Press to TL?
Press to Doug back to Press to TL?
2 Delay of Game penalties it's not going direct

Ding ding ding!  Too many chefs will spoil the pot!

I believe this is why there is no flow with the “O” with the exception of hurry-up.  Doug and Press discuss the next play, by the time they decide Trevor has to hurry up to call it and get the team to the line. Besides the two actual calls, there as one the refs allowed and several close calls.  Meanwhile the Browns were marching up to the line with 15 or more seconds on the clock.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

That was either a big play, or the game winning TD if our bum [BLEEP] OL could block for even a second. BTJ was WIDE open.

It probably puts them in FG range at the very least if the LG/C block the one guy the two of them had to deal with. 

People would be on here praising the offensive brilliance of the play had that block been executed. (instead of starting threads bashing it) 

I said earlier that they should have given Cam help - but he really did keep his guy deep enough that TL could have stepped up and made the throw.  (as pointed out by flsprtsgd) 
He just had nowhere to step up because of Morse and Cleveland flailing (the guys that were supposed to make this line better)

Unfortunately at this point, we have to just hope and pray this OL gets its collective head out of its [BLEEP] and figures out how to give Trevor a pocket on more pass attempts. Or I think we'll be back to the shotgun-quick-release short passes and fewer downfield PA attempts we saw so much of in 22/23.

It was damn near a beautiful play.

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That was either a big play, or the game winning TD if our bum [BLEEP] OL could block for even a second. BTJ was WIDE open.

Have to consider the consequences of calling a long developing play backed up in your endzone.
The reward is great but the risk is too high for that moment.

On first down in your endzone, the play call should be some thing quick to make some room. Get 4-6 yards.
Then run that play on 2nd down. Get sacked at the goal line and you still have 3rd down.

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That was either a big play, or the game winning TD if our bum [BLEEP] OL could block for even a second. BTJ was WIDE open.

Have to consider the consequences of calling a long developing play backed up in your endzone.
The reward is great but the risk is too high for that moment.

On first down in your endzone, the play call should be some thing quick to make some room. Get 4-6 yards.
Then run that play on 2nd down. Get sacked at the goal line and you still have 3rd down.

Pederson is aggressive sometimes to the point of recklessness. That call was a case of perfect aggression, it's everything a coach gets praised for if it works.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Have to consider the consequences of calling a long developing play backed up in your endzone.
The reward is great but the risk is too high for that moment.

On first down in your endzone, the play call should be some thing quick to make some room. Get 4-6 yards.
Then run that play on 2nd down. Get sacked at the goal line and you still have 3rd down.

Pederson is aggressive sometimes to the point of recklessness. That call was a case of perfect aggression, it's everything a coach gets praised for if it works.

Do you like that call?

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That was either a big play, or the game winning TD if our bum [BLEEP] OL could block for even a second. BTJ was WIDE open.

Have to consider the consequences of calling a long developing play backed up in your endzone.
The reward is great but the risk is too high for that moment.

On first down in your endzone, the play call should be some thing quick to make some room. Get 4-6 yards.
Then run that play on 2nd down. Get sacked at the goal line and you still have 3rd down.

Or - your LG and Center good effectively block ONE GUY and ka-boom, we're in FG range. 

That play wasn't super long to develop really. He would have been releasing the ball in 2.3 or 2.4 seconds, but the pressure got there in 2.2. 

I understand why the conventional wisdom says to get yourself some space first, but we were up against the clock with 90+ yards to cover too.

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Pederson is aggressive sometimes to the point of recklessness. That call was a case of perfect aggression, it's everything a coach gets praised for if it works.

Do you like that call?

Yep, it was perfect for the circumstances. I have less affection for their calls on 4th down, those bother me when the defense is playing good.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The formation telegraphed that it would be a pass or maybe a draw. The formation gave the Browns permission to pin their ears back. I've seen long pass plays work from your own 1, but usually you line up in more of a power formation so the defense is less sure about it being a long pass.

Or even, failing that, you still want to call a long pass out of shotgun in your own endzone? How about have the QB run to the side after the snap to slow the DEs down and give the OL a little chance at initiative? Trevor could hit that deep pass on a roll to his right. Why leave him in the middle as a fixed target?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

The formation telegraphed that it would be a pass or maybe a draw.  The formation gave the Browns permission to pin their ears back.  I've seen long pass plays work from your own 1, but usually you line up in more of a power formation so the defense is less sure about it being a long pass.

You'd have a point but the browns rushed four against five, so, nice try I guess.

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The formation telegraphed that it would be a pass or maybe a draw.  The formation gave the Browns permission to pin their ears back.  I've seen long pass plays work from your own 1, but usually you line up in more of a power formation so the defense is less sure about it being a long pass.

You'd have a point but the browns rushed four against five, so, nice try I guess.

Those four were in pure pass rush mode.  Not worrying about gaps. Not worried about containing.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

You'd have a point but the browns rushed four against five, so, nice try I guess.

Those four were in pure pass rush mode.  Not worrying about gaps. Not worried about containing.

agree.

Not to mention the entire game had established that the browns could get pressure with 4...  So all they had to do in secondary was to cut off short routes.  The only play really at that point was check down to ETN.  But ETN was on the off side of Trevor's first read.  There was no other outlet, and Trevor was basically a cooked goose.

But yeah, it was a perfect play call...  Naw, it wasn't.  It was a dumb call considering down, distance, and the feel of the game.  There should have been a quick slant option on the 1st read side, or they should have just redirected to ETN.  Neither of those were conceptualized in that play call.  

It was a terrible play in reality.  In fantasy, if all things were perfect (IE a great O-Line), then yeah, it would have worked.  But we all knew there was no way that was going to work when we were watching on Sunday.  It was a destined to lose play call.

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You'd have a point but the browns rushed four against five, so, nice try I guess.

Those four were in pure pass rush mode.  Not worrying about gaps. Not worried about containing.

Our Center and LG let one man get by between the two of them.

You seriously want to sit here and blame that on the DT "having his ears pinned back" or "pass rush mode?" 

Seriously?? 

C'mon...

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