Bruh, Burrow took the Bengals to the Superbowl.

Yeah, I don't know if that was the right thing for him to say... Lol.

On top of that Burrow atleast looked competitive and put points on the board versus Lawrence dookie 7 points.

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You give Trevor a real Offensive minded HC with a real OC, and this whole thing changes. 

We're back to playing an NFL style offense that nobody else runs.  It's not Trevor.  He's proven he can be a franchise QB.  But when you have a coaching staff that has no clue how to actually run an offense, there's not a QB that we can bring in that will be succesful.

Hypothetical:  Do you all think that Patrick Mahommes would actually be able to run this trash offense?  There's no way.  It's not the QB.  It's the coaching.

Like I said a new coaching staff might make Lawrence look good for some good years but it all comes down to talent and eventually the ugly head will show.

Detriot, Seattle and now Minnesota might have good seasons but they aren't winning the chip under those QBs either. Lawrence isn't a QB that will win you a ring.

Look up the QBs for the past 10 years that won SB and ask yourself if Lawrence is on their level.

 
I'm too lazy and too drunk to look it up...  But over the past 10 years the SB winning QBs are Brady, Mahommes, Stafford, limp (BEEP) nick, and maybe Manning??

Is Trevor as good as Brady or Mahommes?  NO.  Obviously not.  But can he get good enough to be a Stafford type QB.  Heck yes!  But he needs better coaching and a better front office.

---

Like I said a new coaching staff might make Lawrence look good for some good years but it all comes down to talent and eventually the ugly head will show.

Detriot, Seattle and now Minnesota might have good seasons but they aren't winning the chip under those QBs either. Lawrence isn't a QB that will win you a ring.

Look up the QBs for the past 10 years that won SB and ask yourself if Lawrence is on their level.

 
I'm too lazy and too drunk to look it up...  But over the past 10 years the SB winning QBs are Brady, Mahommes, Stafford, limp (BEEP) nick, and maybe Manning??

Is Trevor as good as Brady or Mahommes?  NO.  Obviously not.  But can he get good enough to be a Stafford type QB.  Heck yes!  But he needs better coaching and a better front office.

Exactly he is definitely good enough and with an actual line he can be up there right below Mahomes and Allen imo.

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No Fun

Trevor sucked tonight.  Did you watch the game?  So did the D.  Burrow has been good tonight but there D has been trash like the Jags D

I agree with you and this has been the point I've been trying to make all night. Trevor didn't play well tonight, he wasn't awful or cost us the game but didn't play well but plenty of other players were bad tonight and maybe we can give them the same level of scrutiny that Trevor gets.

21/38 178 yards 1 TD (lets be real, garbage time umbrella defense) and 1 INT is indeed awful. And we get these statlines more times than not.

Scoring only 10 points on offense and not being able to maintain a drive IS a major part of what cost us the game.

We all knew this defense was dog crap - what we didn't know, at least for some of us, is that Trevor might actually not be the guy we all thought we were getting. And we've had 4 seasons of this now.

I've been a lot more vocal, starting tonight because I've given him an incredibly long leash with numerous excuses over the years - but I don't see it anymore with him. Even if we somehow win a game in the next few weeks, I am starting to feel like it would be fluke-y.

I'm just sad its devolved down to this point because I've always been a vehement supporter of TLaw from the outset. But he seems more like a game manager type player at best.

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He won’t be going anywhere for a few years, but he’s looked horrible 3 weeks in a row. 8 straight losses and counting. Stafford showed flashes of being elite in Detroit. What game from Lawrence has left you saying, wow he’s going to be elite?

Trevor has been horrible this year. He also had a 23 game stretch where he played great football before his body broke down with a Win Loss Record of 16 -7. 3 of the 7 losses to the back to back Superbowl Champions in the Chiefs. Here are his numbers from Week 9 2022 to Week 8 2023:

40 - 14 TD INT ratio
67.8 completion percentage
272 Yards per game
7.3 YPA
95.9 Passer Rating 

Not a great sample size, but a season and a half worth of winning football. He wasn't throwing it to any elite WRs and also played behind one of the worst OLs in football during that run. He's not Peyton Manning like many thought he could be coming out which is disappointing, but he has certainly shown flashes.

This is refreshing for sure. Nothing just stands out to me where I can point to a game and say wow, Trevor is elite. Perhaps it's the expectations I had for the "generational" qb talent, #1 pick overall, were set too high. I expected him to be a perennial pro bowler for sure, with some all pro years mixed in. Perhaps a MVP? Everything we were told of him being drafted pointed towards that. A franchise savior. At this point, we just want him to be above average, and to do that he needs better coaching without a doubt. We see what is happening around the league with Darnold, Mayfield, even Malik Willis when put in a better situation how they play, and that's great. That's what TLAW's ceiling is I guess. MVP and all pro? Those expectations are gone.

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Daniel's

21/23 253 yrds 2 TD 0 int
40 rush yrds and 1 TD.  Dude put that team on his back.  Our roster is better than the Commander imo.

Yep.

Great QBs can lift their teams and elevate the play of the others around them. Jayden is off to a good start but I'm not one to quickly crown someone a superstar or bust immediately.

TLaw is the type of QB that REQUIRES other players to play at a certain level for him to play well at this point. I just thought we were getting a QB better than that honestly.

And at $55 million/year, its gonna sting a little bit more sadly.

But it is not really $55 million a year. If we are going to have this conversation let's do it honestly.

Also EVERY QB require players of certain level to perform to a good standard. Basically every MVP, All-Pro, Super Bowl winning QB has another offensive player who is HoF or All -Pro caliber. And the few that don't are no doubt HoF's.

Every contending Super Bowl winning QB typically has a HoF coach. McVeigh is definitely trending that way. Gary Kubiak, Brian Billick, John Gruden, Mike Holgrem, Bruce Arians, and early career Mike McCarthy are just a notch or few below that level and most with HoF level Qb's.That leaves Doug Pederson and it's pretty clear the 2017 Eagles are the flukiest champion of the past 30 years. who won't but he is much better than any coach the Jags have had in 2 decades. Doug Pedersen is basically the only e

Now if you were expected a future HoF, I don't know what to tell you.

But he can still be damn good, and can still win a SB in the right situation. My point being that ever QB has to be in the right situation to succeed.

Plus if you are looking to but bait, it is more likely the Jags are waiting another 10-15 years to find a QB with this level of potential again.

---

Like I said a new coaching staff might make Lawrence look good for some good years but it all comes down to talent and eventually the ugly head will show.

Detriot, Seattle and now Minnesota might have good seasons but they aren't winning the chip under those QBs either. Lawrence isn't a QB that will win you a ring.

Look up the QBs for the past 10 years that won SB and ask yourself if Lawrence is on their level.

 
I'm too lazy and too drunk to look it up...  But over the past 10 years the SB winning QBs are Brady, Mahommes, Stafford, limp (BEEP) nick, and maybe Manning??

Is Trevor as good as Brady or Mahommes?  NO.  Obviously not.  But can he get good enough to be a Stafford type QB.  Heck yes!  But he needs better coaching and a better front office.

He's def not better than Stafford lol, so yes I think the alcohol got to you.

Nick Foles doesnt count because we all know Carson Wentz carried that team before he got injured.

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Maybe they should go with TrEverbank next home game. It really made a difference last time.

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55 million a year to sail footballs over receivers heads for INTs..

I can do that for free..

---

Trevor had a 5-6 game stretch where he looked like a franchise qb, and that was in 2022.

Whole lot more mediocre games, and quite a lot of awful games too.

Mediocre at best. Shad is paying him for the upside potential. But he is part of the problem, and boy do we have a lot of problems on this team.

It’s frustrating but all we can do is “get better” day after day.

We've been getting worse day after day, starting from 8-3 last year. When do we get better?

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I agree with you and this has been the point I've been trying to make all night. Trevor didn't play well tonight, he wasn't awful or cost us the game but didn't play well but plenty of other players were bad tonight and maybe we can give them the same level of scrutiny that Trevor gets.

21/38 178 yards 1 TD (lets be real, garbage time umbrella defense) and 1 INT is indeed awful. And we get these statlines more times than not.

Scoring only 10 points on offense and not being able to maintain a drive IS a major part of what cost us the game.

We all knew this defense was dog crap - what we didn't know, at least for some of us, is that Trevor might actually not be the guy we all thought we were getting. And we've had 4 seasons of this now.

I've been a lot more vocal, starting tonight because I've given him an incredibly long leash with numerous excuses over the years - but I don't see it anymore with him. Even if we somehow win a game in the next few weeks, I am starting to feel like it would be fluke-y.

I'm just sad its devolved down to this point because I've always been a vehement supporter of TLaw from the outset. But he seems more like a game manager type player at best.

I get it. You've had enough and your giving up on Trevor. That's absolutely fine if that's what you want to do and I completely understand where your coming from. 

I'm just saying I'm not writing him off. He's shown more than enough times the talent he has. This team is in a horrible run right now and everything is off right now. The Bills scored on 8 of 9 drives tonight. Tough to win when the opponents can do that. I sadly don't see a quick fix for all of our ills right now and things will get worse in the short term as they look like they have zero confidence right now.

People want to vent tonight, I get it. It's been a rough start to what looked a promising season.

---

I agree with you and this has been the point I've been trying to make all night. Trevor didn't play well tonight, he wasn't awful or cost us the game but didn't play well but plenty of other players were bad tonight and maybe we can give them the same level of scrutiny that Trevor gets.

21/38 178 yards 1 TD (lets be real, garbage time umbrella defense) and 1 INT is indeed awful. And we get these statlines more times than not.

Scoring only 10 points on offense and not being able to maintain a drive IS a major part of what cost us the game.

We all knew this defense was dog crap - what we didn't know, at least for some of us, is that Trevor might actually not be the guy we all thought we were getting. And we've had 4 seasons of this now.

I've been a lot more vocal, starting tonight because I've given him an incredibly long leash with numerous excuses over the years - but I don't see it anymore with him. Even if we somehow win a game in the next few weeks, I am starting to feel like it would be fluke-y.

I'm just sad its devolved down to this point because I've always been a vehement supporter of TLaw from the outset. But he seems more like a game manager type player at best.

Drops continue to put Lawrence and this Offense behind. There were 4 drops in the 1st half alone tonight.

---

I love how people forget how Manning and Brady (truly great QBs) made scrub O-lineman (WRs too) look like All Pros. It's like Beadles was never a jag.

Brady and Peyton playing behind OLs among dead last in time to throw in the NFL is news to me. Of course during 40 years combined during their careers you can find seasons with below average OL play, but for the most part they played behind really good OLs. Brady elevated his WRs way beyond their talent, Manning did too but he was a HOFer throwing to two HOFers in Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Calling them scrubs is the most interesting NFL take I've read in awhile

---

21/38 178 yards 1 TD (lets be real, garbage time umbrella defense) and 1 INT is indeed awful. And we get these statlines more times than not.

Scoring only 10 points on offense and not being able to maintain a drive IS a major part of what cost us the game.

We all knew this defense was dog crap - what we didn't know, at least for some of us, is that Trevor might actually not be the guy we all thought we were getting. And we've had 4 seasons of this now.

I've been a lot more vocal, starting tonight because I've given him an incredibly long leash with numerous excuses over the years - but I don't see it anymore with him. Even if we somehow win a game in the next few weeks, I am starting to feel like it would be fluke-y.

I'm just sad its devolved down to this point because I've always been a vehement supporter of TLaw from the outset. But he seems more like a game manager type player at best.

Drops continue to put Lawrence and this Offense behind. There were 4 drops in the 1st half alone tonight.

They should coach harder so that doesn't happen!

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yep.

Great QBs can lift their teams and elevate the play of the others around them. Jayden is off to a good start but I'm not one to quickly crown someone a superstar or bust immediately.

TLaw is the type of QB that REQUIRES other players to play at a certain level for him to play well at this point. I just thought we were getting a QB better than that honestly.

And at $55 million/year, its gonna sting a little bit more sadly.

But it is not really $55 million a year. If we are going to have this conversation let's do it honestly.

Also EVERY QB require players of certain level to perform to a good standard. Basically every MVP, All-Pro, Super Bowl winning QB has another offensive player who is HoF or All -Pro caliber. And the few that don't are no doubt HoF's.

Every contending Super Bowl winning QB typically has a HoF coach. McVeigh is definitely trending that way. Gary Kubiak, Brian Billick, John Gruden, Mike Holgrem, Bruce Arians, and early career Mike McCarthy are just a notch or few below that level and most with HoF level Qb's.That leaves Doug Pederson and it's pretty clear the 2017 Eagles are the flukiest champion of the past 30 years. who won't but he is much better than any coach the Jags have had in 2 decades. Doug Pedersen is basically the only e

Now if you were expected a future HoF, I don't know what to tell you.

But he can still be damn good, and can still win a SB in the right situation. My point being that ever QB has to be in the right situation to succeed.

Plus if you are looking to but bait, it is more likely the Jags are waiting another 10-15 years to find a QB with this level of potential again.

Pretty much this. We’ve given him Meyer, Press Taylor, clowns at O-Line, a GM who couldn’t draft the easiest no brainer 1st overall pick and went with a project instead…..the ONLY thing I’ll give these critics is he’s been given good receivers. But even then, they’ve ghosted. Engram is injured but Kirk dropped of the face of earth. And we can’t run the ball dominantly. So I don’t know what to tell anyone. You can only elevate so much out of a 100 foot hole

---

I love how people forget how Manning and Brady (truly great QBs) made scrub O-lineman (WRs too) look like All Pros. It's like Beadles was never a jag.

Brady and Peyton playing behind OLs among dead last in time to throw in the NFL is news to me. Of course during 40 years combined during their careers you can find seasons with below average OL play, but for the most part they played behind really good OLs. Brady elevated his WRs way beyond their talent, Manning did too but he was a HOFer throwing to two HOFers in Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Calling them scrubs is the most interesting NFL take I've read in awhile

Yeah Brady played with scrubs at receiver but if you have good protection you can make it work

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I love how people forget how Manning and Brady (truly great QBs) made scrub O-lineman (WRs too) look like All Pros. It's like Beadles was never a jag.

Brady and Peyton playing behind OLs among dead last in time to throw in the NFL is news to me. Of course during 40 years combined during their careers you can find seasons with below average OL play, but for the most part they played behind really good OLs. Brady elevated his WRs way beyond their talent, Manning did too but he was a HOFer throwing to two HOFers in Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Calling them scrubs is the most interesting NFL take I've read in awhile

Oh right, I forgot how those 2 were there for every Payton season lol and they were the only WRs that looked good with Manning.

Lawrence sucks, he is not even an average QB right now. You are a clown, just as Lawrence.

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I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

But it is not really $55 million a year. If we are going to have this conversation let's do it honestly.

Also EVERY QB require players of certain level to perform to a good standard. Basically every MVP, All-Pro, Super Bowl winning QB has another offensive player who is HoF or All -Pro caliber. And the few that don't are no doubt HoF's.

Every contending Super Bowl winning QB typically has a HoF coach. McVeigh is definitely trending that way. Gary Kubiak, Brian Billick, John Gruden, Mike Holgrem, Bruce Arians, and early career Mike McCarthy are just a notch or few below that level and most with HoF level Qb's.That leaves Doug Pederson and it's pretty clear the 2017 Eagles are the flukiest champion of the past 30 years. who won't but he is much better than any coach the Jags have had in 2 decades. Doug Pedersen is basically the only e

Now if you were expected a future HoF, I don't know what to tell you.

But he can still be damn good, and can still win a SB in the right situation. My point being that ever QB has to be in the right situation to succeed.

Plus if you are looking to but bait, it is more likely the Jags are waiting another 10-15 years to find a QB with this level of potential again.

Pretty much this. We’ve given him Meyer, Press Taylor, clowns at O-Line, a GM who couldn’t draft the easiest no brainer 1st overall pick and went with a project instead…..the ONLY thing I’ll give these critics is he’s been given good receivers. But even then, they’ve ghosted. Engram is injured but Kirk dropped of the face of earth. And we can’t run the ball dominantly. So I don’t know what to tell anyone. You can only elevate so much out of a 100 foot hole

---

Brady and Peyton playing behind OLs among dead last in time to throw in the NFL is news to me. Of course during 40 years combined during their careers you can find seasons with below average OL play, but for the most part they played behind really good OLs. Brady elevated his WRs way beyond their talent, Manning did too but he was a HOFer throwing to two HOFers in Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Calling them scrubs is the most interesting NFL take I've read in awhile

Yeah Brady played with scrubs at receiver but if you have good protection you can make it work

Bro, Kirk was a 1st round near bust in Phoenix, his success here is because of the QB. His standout play here is the drop against KC in the playoffs.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yep.

Great QBs can lift their teams and elevate the play of the others around them. Jayden is off to a good start but I'm not one to quickly crown someone a superstar or bust immediately.

TLaw is the type of QB that REQUIRES other players to play at a certain level for him to play well at this point. I just thought we were getting a QB better than that honestly.

And at $55 million/year, its gonna sting a little bit more sadly.

But it is not really $55 million a year. If we are going to have this conversation let's do it honestly.

Also EVERY QB require players of certain level to perform to a good standard. Basically every MVP, All-Pro, Super Bowl winning QB has another offensive player who is HoF or All -Pro caliber. And the few that don't are no doubt HoF's.

Every contending Super Bowl winning QB typically has a HoF coach. McVeigh is definitely trending that way. Gary Kubiak, Brian Billick, John Gruden, Mike Holgrem, Bruce Arians, and early career Mike McCarthy are just a notch or few below that level and most with HoF level Qb's.That leaves Doug Pederson and it's pretty clear the 2017 Eagles are the flukiest champion of the past 30 years. who won't but he is much better than any coach the Jags have had in 2 decades. Doug Pedersen is basically the only e

Now if you were expected a future HoF, I don't know what to tell you.

But he can still be damn good, and can still win a SB in the right situation. My point being that ever QB has to be in the right situation to succeed.

Plus if you are looking to but bait, it is more likely the Jags are waiting another 10-15 years to find a QB with this level of potential again.

I'm not harping on the $55 million/yr as a primary point of emphasis, which is crazy to say, but it's more of an addendum in the scope of entirety.

I'm not going to keep reiterating the same points over and over that I have made earlier in both threads but Trevor hasn't gone out there and WON us a game enough - and it's been a long time since he actually has. A couple of games every few seasons just simply won't cut it in the NFL.

Was that INT tonight on the coaches? Trevor has been responsible for 62 total turnovers since 2021, which leads the entire league in that span sadly. Some of them should not fall on him, but there's A LOT that actually do - and is not a good sign.

I'm tired of seeing stat lines like 21/38 178 yards 1 TD and 1 INT so many times... Can we just have a string of games where he grabs the game by the freaking horns and exerts his "greatness" so we don't ever have to be subjected to conversations like these with our starting QB?

... Please?

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21/38 178 yards 1 TD (lets be real, garbage time umbrella defense) and 1 INT is indeed awful. And we get these statlines more times than not.

Scoring only 10 points on offense and not being able to maintain a drive IS a major part of what cost us the game.

We all knew this defense was dog crap - what we didn't know, at least for some of us, is that Trevor might actually not be the guy we all thought we were getting. And we've had 4 seasons of this now.

I've been a lot more vocal, starting tonight because I've given him an incredibly long leash with numerous excuses over the years - but I don't see it anymore with him. Even if we somehow win a game in the next few weeks, I am starting to feel like it would be fluke-y.

I'm just sad its devolved down to this point because I've always been a vehement supporter of TLaw from the outset. But he seems more like a game manager type player at best.

I get it. You've had enough and your giving up on Trevor. That's absolutely fine if that's what you want to do and I completely understand where your coming from. 

I'm just saying I'm not writing him off. He's shown more than enough times the talent he has. This team is in a horrible run right now and everything is off right now. The Bills scored on 8 of 9 drives tonight. Tough to win when the opponents can do that. I sadly don't see a quick fix for all of our ills right now and things will get worse in the short term as they look like they have zero confidence right now.

People want to vent tonight, I get it. It's been a rough start to what looked a promising season.

I completely understand your point as well, as I was there for a long time. But my tune would have been a lot different if we had lost 35-40 where Trevor was 21/38 320 yards 4 TDs and 1 INT.

It's not about the stat line, so I hope you don't dwindle it down to that, I'm just trying to say that if he was responsible for leading multiple touchdown drives the rhetoric would be vastly different - at least coming from me.

We are just ANEMIC - and I think that is the perfect word to summarize this entire team with all players included in this characterization.

I hope things change around and stay positive consistently because that would be the true measure of what a team and its players truly are. Instead, we've had plenty of anemic performances more times than not.

---

I love how people forget how Manning and Brady (truly great QBs) made scrub O-lineman (WRs too) look like All Pros. It's like Beadles was never a jag.

Brady and Peyton playing behind OLs among dead last in time to throw in the NFL is news to me. Of course during 40 years combined during their careers you can find seasons with below average OL play, but for the most part they played behind really good OLs. Brady elevated his WRs way beyond their talent, Manning did too but he was a HOFer throwing to two HOFers in Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. Calling them scrubs is the most interesting NFL take I've read in awhile

I love how this time-to-throw gets tossed around like it's the coup de grace argument.  He's got the least time to throw because defences don't respect him.  If they over commit on pressure, they will not get burned.  He won't hit the quick slant that forces an LB to stay in the hole.  He won't dump it to a back on a makeshift screen.  He won't take off on a run that forces the DL to rush a little slower so they can react.

TL has the least time because he's the least respected.

It seems the TL-swifties are all content to believe he's a complete victim of circumstance with no responsibility, as the highest paid player on the squad by a WIIIIIIIIIIIDE margin, to be the best player on the squad by an equally WIIIIIIIIIIIDE margin.  That's a good gig.  Give me $55M a year and I can stink it up like an outhouse as well.  Hell, I'll be unreliable at half that price.

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