Lawrence is part of the problem, not the solution. The sooner we realize that the better, he has talent and leadership qualities that could make him valuable to a team in the league, but I don't think he's our guy anymore. Glorified Gabbert type player.

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People always deflect Lawrence issues. Yes the team is bad around him. Let's focus on Lawrence

*Misses far too many easy throws
*misses too many receivers wide open to throw into tight coverage
*turnover prone (leads the NFL since he was drafted)
*has almost 0 touch on the ball
*takes sacks in the worst situations (got to see the blitz coming especially when the line is suspect)
*does not elevate others

I get hopeful wishing but right now I don't see it. Maybe a couple years on the bench he could become a stable player. I will gladly eat these words in the case of being wrong. I see one of if not the worst starting QB in the league currently. Talent only takes one so far.

It was so difficult to watch him miss easy throws especially when the O line was holding pretty well that first half.

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If Houston could dump Brock Osweiler,  Watson etc... we could get out of Trevor's deal.

Houston ate something like $16 million in dead cap when trading Osweiler. I don’t know that they are much of anything on Watson as he signed a new deal with Cleveland as part of the trade. Trevor’s dead cap next year is $133 million.  It’s $88.5 million in 2026 and $44M in 2027.  The team could probably finagle something in 2027 if they really wanted to, but he also has a no trade clause he’d have to waive.  For all intents and purposes he’s the guy here for at least thru the 2026 season.  He’s still very young and has shown flashes of very good/great play.  He’s got issues around him that are significantly exacerbating things. For fans of this team that are hating on him at the moment, your time would be better spent realizing and focusing on the positives and understanding that the circumstances are going to keep him here almost certainly thru the 2026 season and just get behind him and hope he improves as the issues around him get fixed.

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Lawrence is part of the problem,  not the solution.  The sooner we realize that the better,  he has talent and leadership qualities that could make him valuable to a team in the league,  but I don't think he's our guy anymore.  Glorified Gabbert type player.

This is Lawrence's fault also right? How dare he hit Kirk in the face mask with that throw.
https://twitter.com/Christo_MoNa/status/...9571800177

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Lawrence is part of the problem,  not the solution.  The sooner we realize that the better,  he has talent and leadership qualities that could make him valuable to a team in the league,  but I don't think he's our guy anymore.  Glorified Gabbert type player.

This is Lawrence's fault also right? How dare he hit Kirk in the face mask with that throw.
https://twitter.com/Christo_MoNa/status/...9571800177

It's not all on him. It's just the nature of this sport though and when you're now being paid at a premium above 1,650 other active players across the NFL? While there's other QB's clearly better than you making peanuts?

Yeah. The criticism will be amplified. The microscope will be much larger than ever before and, whether he likes it or not or we like it or not, your pay grade now puts you on par with the elites.

He's going to be expected to elevate everybody around him. No matter how dead and bloated everything around him is. He's expected to resurrect the dead and perform miracles now.

Hopefully he can start turning this piss into wine soon. There's still fourteen weeks of games left. It's a marathon, not a sprint.



Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

https://youtu.be/pGqd1UU9iUw?si=O_CEZ2Ejb_M1NgVf

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This is Lawrence's fault also right? How dare he hit Kirk in the face mask with that throw.
https://twitter.com/Christo_MoNa/status/...9571800177

It's not all on him. It's just the nature of this sport though and when you're now being paid at a premium above 1,650 other active players across the NFL? While there's other QB's clearly better than you making peanuts?

Yeah. The criticism will be amplified. The microscope will be much larger than ever before and, whether he likes it or not or we like it or not, your pay grade now puts you on par with the elites.

He's going to be expected to elevate everybody around him. No matter how dead and bloated everything around him is. He's expected to resurrect the dead and perform miracles now.

Hopefully he can start turning this piss into wine soon. There's still fourteen weeks of games left. It's a marathon, not a sprint.



Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

He can't magically make RBs stop slipping with nobody around them.

He can't magically make a LT stop giving up 8 pressures in a game alone. Or magically make the OL stop being garbage in general.

He can't magically make receivers catch balls that hit them in the hands, or hit them in the face masks.

He can't magically change this broken [BLEEP] system that Doug is calling.

Do you really think the Vikings are winning because of Sam Darnold? Do you really think the Packers are winning because of Malik Willis? Hell no. They are winning with them, not because of them. Scheme, Coaching, Game planning, Team and players doing their jobs.

Our team is basically, lets go run 4 curl routes and hope Trevor can make magic every single play. There's no help for our QB. No scheming, hardly any motions and what looks to be zero game planning from this so called coaching staff.

Trevor needs to play better without a doubt, nobody is denying that, but he doesn't have any help. Nobody on that Offense is doing him any favors. OLine is garbage and the pass catchers aren't doing anything. Yea BTJ has had his moments, which have been the only bright spot, but he has also dropped some easy catches as well.

Kirk has been useless so far. Engram hurt so that's whatever. Davis is looking like just a product of Allen's scramble ability to make plays. It's all broken and the system Doug/Press is running is the main cause of it.

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It's not all on him. It's just the nature of this sport though and when you're now being paid at a premium above 1,650 other active players across the NFL? While there's other QB's clearly better than you making peanuts?

Yeah. The criticism will be amplified. The microscope will be much larger than ever before and, whether he likes it or not or we like it or not, your pay grade now puts you on par with the elites.

He's going to be expected to elevate everybody around him. No matter how dead and bloated everything around him is. He's expected to resurrect the dead and perform miracles now.

Hopefully he can start turning this piss into wine soon. There's still fourteen weeks of games left. It's a marathon, not a sprint.



Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

He can't magically make RBs stop slipping with nobody around them.

He can't magically make a LT stop giving up 8 pressures in a game alone. Or magically make the OL stop being garbage in general.

He can't magically make receivers catch balls that hit them in the hands, or hit them in the face masks.

He can't magically change this broken [BLEEP] system that Doug is calling.

Do you really think the Vikings are winning because of Sam Darnold? Do you really think the Packers are winning because of Malik Willis? Hell no. They are winning with them, not because of them. Scheme, Coaching, Game planning, Team and players doing their jobs.

Our team is basically, lets go run 4 curl routes and hope Trevor can make magic every single play. There's no help for our QB. No scheming, hardly any motions and what looks to be zero game planning from this so called coaching staff.

Trevor needs to play better without a doubt, nobody is denying that, but he doesn't have any help. Nobody on that Offense is doing him any favors. OLine is garbage and the pass catchers aren't doing anything. Yea BTJ has had his moments, which have been the only bright spot, but he has also dropped some easy catches as well.

Kirk has been useless so far. Engram hurt so that's whatever. Davis is looking like just a product of Allen's scramble ability to make plays. It's all broken and the system Doug/Press is running is the main cause of it.

Yeah, again, it's not all on him. That was the very first thing I mentioned. I think Baalke has spent a fortune via free agency to add some players that looked good on paper, and now, a lot of that is going away due to father time playing catch up or the coaching staff simply not doing enough to continue their development or put their aces in their places. 

It's a massive failure with all parties involved. Starts with ownership, followed by the general manager, followed by the coaching staff and naturally, followed by the Quarterback. Again, doesn't matter what we see, or, how we view it. The Quarterback is the face of your franchise, he's expected to make magic out of lunch meat. He's expected to rise above the dog [BLEEP]. 

So, while it's not all on him, and, a lot of things are out of his control? He still gets the kick in the balls via the mainstream media. Especially with the $275M contract extension he signed just a few months ago. There will be no mercy shown towards him now. His loudest critics will be louder. His biggest supporters will be more defensive. 

Most of us are in the middle though. There's an obvious disconnect and problem. Trevor's still very young. I think a lot of his issues can be addressed and coached up properly with better support around him. I have lost faith in Doug, Press and his staff. Won't hide that nor sugarcoat that at all. 

I think if we're looking at all of this objectively, and, if we were to put up a nice pie chart or bar graph? I would say it's:

50% Khan
30% Baalke
15% Pederson
5% Lawrence

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Trevor isn't playing well right now. The team isn't playing well right now.

A player being in a bad run of form isn't the same as the players bad.

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Interesting perspective given statistically he's one of the best deep ball throwers in the NFL and statistically one of the best at getting the ball out fast. He's got the least amount of time to throw because the OL is not good. It's not the only factor but it's obviously the biggest and all objective data leads to that. I can't imagine being a football fan and not being able to easily conclude that this OL is trash and the biggest deficiency on offense. Football has and always will start with blocking.

As I said he's played horrible and he's not the generational QB people thought he would be (including me), but yet he is still the best thing about this football team has going forward which is wild given how he has played this season.

Trevor doesn't have the least amount of time to throw. He is actually tied for 8th for the highest average time between snap and throwing ball or receiving pressure.  He is ranked 23rd in the highest number of hurries with 5. He is tied for 4th in the number of poor passes with 20. He is tied for 4th with Stafford for the number of dropped passes at 6 which is less than Aaron Rogers and more than half that of Deshaun Watson. He is also tied for 14th for the most blitzed QB having faced 27. He is ranked 26th in QBR when you only count players who have played all 3 games. He is ranked 29th in completion percentage compared to all the other QB's who have played all 3 games so far and 25th in total passing yards.

We can try to point the blame everywhere else, but there really aren't any excuses. Trevor has just been playing like a bottom tier QB so far this season. I hope he gets back on top of his game.

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

<<insult to your mother>>

It's pretty obvious you're not watching games and desperately relying on actual stats.  Time to throw is clearly a wasted stat and appears to suggest that there's more to the problem than the OL. Sometimes the game calls for throwing into double-coverage, missing your wide open check-down, spinning into a sack just for fun, and chunking the ball out of bounds on third and fourth down.  I mean if the defense blitzes there's no reason not to wait for a long developing route to take shape, short passes are for losers. Let me guess, next your going to tell us that completing %52.8 of passes and putting up 186 yards/game isn't worth $275 million dollars.

What a <<something about feminine products>>!!!

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

BTW, I also don't remember Manning, Brady or Mahomes really having any problems with any of their OCs. Brady made McDaniels look like a genius (some of you even wanted him as a HC lol) and he was awful with the Broncos and Raiders.

Once again, like most people have already said, Lawrence is not the main problem, he is part of it, especially if you are paying him like a top/elite QB (which he clearly isn't and never will be).

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I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

I'm extremely disappointed with Trevor, you just feel like turning into an iggles fan and throwin coke bottles at his [BLEEP].. But, I know he's still the correct way forward.. So grow up sissy boy and handle your business!!

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Trevor isn't playing well right now. The team isn't playing well right now.

A player being in a bad run of form isn't the same as the players bad.

He has so few times been great.

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BTW, I also don't remember Manning, Brady or Mahomes really having any problems with any of their OCs. Brady made McDaniels look like a genius (some of you even wanted him as a HC lol) and he was awful with the Broncos and Raiders.

Once again, like most people have already said, Lawrence is not the main problem, he is part of it, especially if you are paying him like a top/elite QB (which he clearly isn't and never will be).

Well Andy Reid is the real OC so of course Mahomes is on his team. If Trevor had Reid, don't you think it would be a little different? If he had Shanny, McVay, LaFleur, OcConnell, McDaniel.....

Just wait. If it doesn't get fixed here, Trevor will be pushed out of town and people like those coaches I mentioned will be slobbering over themselves to get Trevor.

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BTW, I also don't remember Manning, Brady or Mahomes really having any problems with any of their OCs. Brady made McDaniels look like a genius (some of you even wanted him as a HC lol) and he was awful with the Broncos and Raiders.

Once again, like most people have already said, Lawrence is not the main problem, he is part of it, especially if you are paying him like a top/elite QB (which he clearly isn't and never will be).

I've seen so many below average QBs that has exit good coaches out the league because of their unabilities to perform. I've also seen bad coaches hinder good QBs. But at some point you have to draw a line in the sand and basically fault the player for their failures if you are under 2 3 coaches within four seasons of your career and it is not working. Its a YOU problem, not solely always a management problem.

Trevor will most likely benefit from another fresh start but its only a matter of time we are back at square one discussing how everything else sucks and he needs more help.

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BTW, I also don't remember Manning, Brady or Mahomes really having any problems with any of their OCs. Brady made McDaniels look like a genius (some of you even wanted him as a HC lol) and he was awful with the Broncos and Raiders.

Once again, like most people have already said, Lawrence is not the main problem, he is part of it, especially if you are paying him like a top/elite QB (which he clearly isn't and never will be).

Well Andy Reid is the real OC so of course Mahomes is on his team. If Trevor had Reid, don't you think it would be a little different? If he had Shanny, McVay, LaFleur, OcConnell, McDaniel.....

Just wait. If it doesn't get fixed here, Trevor will be pushed out of town and people like those coaches I mentioned will be slobbering over themselves to get Trevor.

I agree with this. There's still a ton of upside with Trevor. A good coach could correct his course and call a good game to set him up for success. 

BTW, I also don't remember Manning, Brady or Mahomes really having any problems with any of their OCs. Brady made McDaniels look like a genius (some of you even wanted him as a HC lol) and he was awful with the Broncos and Raiders.

Once again, like most people have already said, Lawrence is not the main problem, he is part of it, especially if you are paying him like a top/elite QB (which he clearly isn't and never will be).

I've seen so many below average QBs that has exit good coaches out the league because of their unabilities to perform. I've also seen bad coaches hinder good QBs. But at some point you have to draw a line in the sand and basically fault the player for their failures if you are under 2 3 coaches within four seasons of your career and it is not working. Its a YOU problem, not solely always a management problem.

Trevor will most likely benefit from another fresh start but its only a matter of time we are back at square one discussing how everything else sucks and he needs more help.

It's a bit of both here. A lot of people feel that Lawrence is trying to find the big play on every down instead of taking the easy stuff underneath sometimes. Orlvosky in particular recently called this out on ESPN. Ryan also thinks he's still needing to work on his short to medium passing game with touch, etc. 

Coaching can fix a lot of this. Lawrence also has to meet the staff in the middle here and learn to do the same. Again, though, as it's been cited a few times and shared. 

A lot of poorly designed play calls or executed play calls also don't help him out. Going into gun with four receivers just running go routes or all curl routes doesn't do anything for him. 

Strange not picking up the right defender to set up a pick play for Etienne to get more open on his long route out of the backfield is another example. Sure, his turnovers have been bad, so have the drops, so have the pass pressures and sacks allowed, so has the short yardage run game, etc. 

It's a big pie with plenty of blame to go around. I have more of an issue with what Baalke's done and what Pederson's done more so than what's going on with Lawrence at the moment.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Well Andy Reid is the real OC so of course Mahomes is on his team. If Trevor had Reid, don't you think it would be a little different? If he had Shanny, McVay, LaFleur, OcConnell, McDaniel.....

Just wait. If it doesn't get fixed here, Trevor will be pushed out of town and people like those coaches I mentioned will be slobbering over themselves to get Trevor.

I agree with this. There's still a ton of upside with Trevor. A good coach could correct his course and call a good game to set him up for success. 

I've seen so many below average QBs that has exit good coaches out the league because of their unabilities to perform. I've also seen bad coaches hinder good QBs. But at some point you have to draw a line in the sand and basically fault the player for their failures if you are under 2 3 coaches within four seasons of your career and it is not working. Its a YOU problem, not solely always a management problem.

Trevor will most likely benefit from another fresh start but its only a matter of time we are back at square one discussing how everything else sucks and he needs more help.

It's a bit of both here. A lot of people feel that Lawrence is trying to find the big play on every down instead of taking the easy stuff underneath sometimes. Orlvosky in particular recently called this out on ESPN. Ryan also thinks he's still needing to work on his short to medium passing game with touch, etc. 

Coaching can fix a lot of this. Lawrence also has to meet the staff in the middle here and learn to do the same. Again, though, as it's been cited a few times and shared. 

A lot of poorly designed play calls or executed play calls also don't help him out. Going into gun with four receivers just running go routes or all curl routes doesn't do anything for him. 

Strange not picking up the right defender to set up a pick play for Etienne to get more open on his long route out of the backfield is another example. Sure, his turnovers have been bad, so have the drops, so have the pass pressures and sacks allowed, so has the short yardage run game, etc. 

It's a big pie with plenty of blame to go around. I have more of an issue with what Baalke's done and what Pederson's done more so than what's going on with Lawrence at the moment.

Sometimes yes, this happens and it’s on Trevor. 

On the other hand, go watch some of the play breakdowns. They’re sending everyone on intermediate to deep routes and there is no safety valve, so yes, he’s trying to find the big play because that’s all that’s available. Sometimes he scrambles out of it but more often then not the defensive lineman are already home

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BTW, I also don't remember Manning, Brady or Mahomes really having any problems with any of their OCs. Brady made McDaniels look like a genius (some of you even wanted him as a HC lol) and he was awful with the Broncos and Raiders.

Once again, like most people have already said, Lawrence is not the main problem, he is part of it, especially if you are paying him like a top/elite QB (which he clearly isn't and never will be).

Well Andy Reid is the real OC so of course Mahomes is on his team. If Trevor had Reid, don't you think it would be a little different? If he had Shanny, McVay, LaFleur, OcConnell, McDaniel.....

Just wait. If it doesn't get fixed here, Trevor will be pushed out of town and people like those coaches I mentioned will be slobbering over themselves to get Trevor.

Things are too toxic here for TLaw.  It would be best if he could go somewhere else and leave this place in the rear view.

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Well Andy Reid is the real OC so of course Mahomes is on his team. If Trevor had Reid, don't you think it would be a little different? If he had Shanny, McVay, LaFleur, OcConnell, McDaniel.....

Just wait. If it doesn't get fixed here, Trevor will be pushed out of town and people like those coaches I mentioned will be slobbering over themselves to get Trevor.

Things are too toxic here for TLaw.  It would be best if he could go somewhere else and leave this place in the rear view.

That’s such bull.
Jacksonville is the easiest place to play.
He sucked as a rookie and everyone just chalked it up to Urban Meyer.
After year 2 he was essentially crowned as the second coming. Even after year 3 - where he struggled with injuries and inconsistent play down the stretch, and a major collapse by the team, he was rewarded (prematurely) with a massive contract extension.

Don’t pretend that he’s being mistreated. He has been treated more fairly. Anywhere else he would’ve received a lot harsher criticism MUCHUCH sooner.

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Coaching is to blame more than Lawrence imo. He looked good in the 2nd half of 22 and 23 before he got injured.

The 24 team is better on paper than the 23 team.

Did Lawrence regress out of nowhere? It seems to me that coaching and scheme has gotten worse. Lawrence played well against the dolphins but it seemed like the coaches were scared to let him throw.

He isn't being put in a position to succeed. Basically every other team I watch schemes players open for easy completions. Everything looks so hard for the jags it feels like a miracle whenever we manage to convert a third down.

Look at the vikings cooking with darnold. Even the Packers won with Malik Willis. Trev is way better than those guys but he needs help

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