Thank you!! So very much this. Just taking Mahomes as an example. Yesterday was his 3rd game in October and yesterday was the first TD's he'd thrown I'm those games. He threw 0 TD's and they still scored 26 and 28 points. The best QB in the league has thrown a pick in every game but the TEAM finds a way to win.

I think we're very similar to the Bengals this year. A great QB with weapons but no run game and a D that gets scored on so so much and Burrow can't overcome all those things on his own.

The. Defense. Couldn't. Stop. Malik. Willis.

Yep. Freaking Willis. 

Jacobs tore us a new one aswell but when we finally make them put the game on Willis's arm we leave a WR open by 15 yards.

Sorry, dudes, the Bib Brigade has spoken, and Trevor has been found wanting. When he's finally gone to San Fran and is being carried by Shanahan to superb owls everything here will finally be solved.

Then watch him being raved about and what a talent he is and if only we had a QB like that.

And then who would I coddle?!?

---

The jaguars are just a poor organization from top to bottom. That is the reality and what the record shows. It’s not up the league standard.

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Trevor Lawrence signs a team-friendly deal that takes care of both him and the franchise for years and people still wanna [BLEEP] about it.

We could win the SB by a field goal and some would complain that we left 10 pts on the field.

---

I just don't know how you can watch that game yesterday and come away thinking Trevor cost us.

The criticism was turnovers and leading a game winning drive. He's cut down on turnovers and yesterday took us down the field to tie it up with Washington and Tim Jones at WR. The bar is constantly being moved on him to find a way to criticise him.

Just feels like some have turned on Trevor and want to find a way to always pin it on him.

Now he needs to have zero turnovers and score points on every drive? Give me a break man.

2-6 sucks, man. Some folks need to punch a wall when frustrations mount.

Catharsis takes multiple forms.

I get that. Especially now we have some hope and optimism. Hurts more than it usually does when we're this bad.

I'd just say aim those punches more at the people who actually deserve them.

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Thank you!! So very much this. Just taking Mahomes as an example. Yesterday was his 3rd game in October and yesterday was the first TD's he'd thrown I'm those games. He threw 0 TD's and they still scored 26 and 28 points. The best QB in the league has thrown a pick in every game but the TEAM finds a way to win.

I think we're very similar to the Bengals this year. A great QB with weapons but no run game and a D that gets scored on so so much and Burrow can't overcome all those things on his own.

Now THERE is a Taylor family member deserving of an axe.

---

The. Defense. Couldn't. Stop. Malik. Willis.

Pish. Posh. Our franchise QB should have known how incapable our D was and burned another minute off the clock instead of throwing an amazing TD in crunch time.

That's what truly elite QBs would do.

The Taylor family flag football Thanksgiving game is going to be real interesting this year!!

---

Every QB in this league plays games with turnovers. You’re holding Trevor to a standard no other QB in this league is held to. That he would have to play perfect and flawless. Doesn’t matter what the team around them does. Trevor could throw for 25/30 , 400, 4 TDs and have one pick and you’d ask why he didn’t throw for five and didn’t play perfect when we lose 35-28.

As far as the slow starts? That’s on our staff. Our first 15 almost always fails; it’s always short runs and dink and dunk. And do you notice that once we go off script, and let Trevor rip the offense moved the ball? It’s been a consistent them that this team comes unprepared out the gate and that to me has to be asked of the coaches more then any player. Are defenses consistently seeing what we’re seeing on tape and easily shutting down the first 15? Blame Trevor, sure, but to me there’s a larger issue behind that. 

I agree Trevor’s development has been inconsistent. Which is why I’ve been adamant despite rosier outlooks that he’s not elite and may never be; however he’s talented and a good QB and that’s what this franchise has lacked for decades and if we throw it away in hopes of finding elite we’d be silly. 28-29 of the 32 teams in this league are “settling” for “mediocrity” with your standards. 

The contract? Again can we stop with this misinformation nonsense? The contract is not going to prevent a new regime from building around him.
2025: $17M, 5.9%, 20th/55 among QBs
2026: $24M, 8.3%, 19th/41 among QBs
2027: $35M, 11.1%, 13th/25 among QBs
2028: $47M (cutting him here would be a dead cap hit of $42M), 9th/12 among QBs
2029: $78M (cutting him here would be a dead cap of $21M), 2nd/8 among QBs
2030: $75M (cutting him here would be a dead cap of $7M), 1st/3 among QBs (Mahomes and Burrow are the other two)
2031: $21M (this is a void year and carries no dead cap hit), 2nd/2 among QBs (Mahomes is the other one)

Can’t truly rid him if that’s what you want until 2028 but his contract is built in a way we’re not hamstrung from building around him until 2029 which again we can cut him or rework him. Criticize the amount sure (which only makes him highest paid for 1-2 seasons) but we’re not shot in the kneecaps like you claim.

As far as record, that’s an ultimate team stat. Using your logic, mahomes should have MVP if the season ended today. He wouldn’t because he’s playing like a human QB.

We’re certainly going to lose the next four and I can guarantee Trevor will have great plays and bad plays because he’s gonna let it rip and we’re down his best two targets potentially. I’ll be waiting for it. Because on offense it’s just him, engram, Bigsby basically taking the offense on their back and will be desperate

Finally if you wanna be disappointed because of the hype, go for it. I’m not. I never expect a player to step in and be elite immediately . How many QBs have truly done that in decades? Brady. Mahomes. Could make a case for a couple others. Some come hot out the gate then cool off. That’s on your expectations not on him. He didn’t come out and say “I will be elite”. He didn’t say “I’m generational and I promise to bring this franchise to glory”. I’m happy that he’s our franchise and that he’s a QB we can build around it’s just a matter of accomplishing that.

Step back from the cliff man. At this point I want Mac jones to start so people understand just how bad it can get at the position. We let Trevor walk in 2029, we’re back to QB purgatory. Full stop.

Trevor leads the league in turnovers since he's been in the league.  The fact that he's improved that in a 2-6 performance doesn't erase the fact that he still holds that record.  The fact that he spotted the Packers 14 points via turnovers is what lost yesterdays game.  Criticizing that aspect of his game isn't "holding Trevor to a standard no other QB in this league is held to", it's pointing out that he has to be more secure with the ball... Just like his head coach pointed out in the offseason.

I'll say it again, Trevor's contract isn't about him being overpaid (though I think there's an argument there) but if you believe that a new GM and Head Coach are needed, it adds a wrench in the hiring process.  Instead of offering a GM and a HC with a blank slate, you have to hire them with the understanding that the QB position (and the newly extended DE/CB) are already locked in for multiple years (4 years according to you post).  For example, if you really want Ben Johnson as a HC, he now has to agree that he can turn the team around with Trevor, as opposed to finding his own QB that may fit his system better.  It's not impossible that he'll agree, but it is an extra hurdle.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

It’s crazy to me that we still have fans blaming Trev. With how awful the rest of our team is, how bad our coaches and GM are, and how dysfunctional our franchise has been for years, we should all be thrilled that at least we have a great young QB to possibly help us through another restart.

Franchises fail young QBs before the young QBs fail the franchise.

---

Sorry, dudes, the Bib Brigade has spoken, and Trevor has been found wanting. When he's finally gone to San Fran and is being carried by Shanahan to superb owls everything here will finally be solved.

Then watch him being raved about and what a talent he is and if only we had a QB like that.

And then who would I coddle?!?

Sure, the national media will love him at that point, but we'll know better as we argue about whether the next Quinn Gray should be starting over the next David Garrard while we watch Stroud hang 50 on the Jaguars defense that Baalke just rebuilt with high priced free agents again.

---

It’s crazy to me that we still have fans blaming Trev. With how awful the rest of our team is, how bad our coaches and GM are, and how dysfunctional our franchise has been for years, we should all be thrilled that at least we have a great young QB to possibly help us through another restart.

Like most things the truth is somewhere in the middle of the extreme positions.

Trevor - by my best attempt at objective analysis - has had three games this year wherein he made enough mistakes to be considered a contributing factor to the loss. 

Which leaves 5 games wherein he played well enough to win - and in three of those the team found a way to lose anyway.

He's not perfect - but he's good more often than not - and in this league there are NEVER enough good QBs to go around so they get paid.

---

Every QB in this league plays games with turnovers. You’re holding Trevor to a standard no other QB in this league is held to. That he would have to play perfect and flawless. Doesn’t matter what the team around them does. Trevor could throw for 25/30 , 400, 4 TDs and have one pick and you’d ask why he didn’t throw for five and didn’t play perfect when we lose 35-28.

As far as the slow starts? That’s on our staff. Our first 15 almost always fails; it’s always short runs and dink and dunk. And do you notice that once we go off script, and let Trevor rip the offense moved the ball? It’s been a consistent them that this team comes unprepared out the gate and that to me has to be asked of the coaches more then any player. Are defenses consistently seeing what we’re seeing on tape and easily shutting down the first 15? Blame Trevor, sure, but to me there’s a larger issue behind that. 

I agree Trevor’s development has been inconsistent. Which is why I’ve been adamant despite rosier outlooks that he’s not elite and may never be; however he’s talented and a good QB and that’s what this franchise has lacked for decades and if we throw it away in hopes of finding elite we’d be silly. 28-29 of the 32 teams in this league are “settling” for “mediocrity” with your standards. 

The contract? Again can we stop with this misinformation nonsense? The contract is not going to prevent a new regime from building around him.
2025: $17M, 5.9%, 20th/55 among QBs
2026: $24M, 8.3%, 19th/41 among QBs
2027: $35M, 11.1%, 13th/25 among QBs
2028: $47M (cutting him here would be a dead cap hit of $42M), 9th/12 among QBs
2029: $78M (cutting him here would be a dead cap of $21M), 2nd/8 among QBs
2030: $75M (cutting him here would be a dead cap of $7M), 1st/3 among QBs (Mahomes and Burrow are the other two)
2031: $21M (this is a void year and carries no dead cap hit), 2nd/2 among QBs (Mahomes is the other one)

Can’t truly rid him if that’s what you want until 2028 but his contract is built in a way we’re not hamstrung from building around him until 2029 which again we can cut him or rework him. Criticize the amount sure (which only makes him highest paid for 1-2 seasons) but we’re not shot in the kneecaps like you claim.

As far as record, that’s an ultimate team stat. Using your logic, mahomes should have MVP if the season ended today. He wouldn’t because he’s playing like a human QB.

We’re certainly going to lose the next four and I can guarantee Trevor will have great plays and bad plays because he’s gonna let it rip and we’re down his best two targets potentially. I’ll be waiting for it. Because on offense it’s just him, engram, Bigsby basically taking the offense on their back and will be desperate

Finally if you wanna be disappointed because of the hype, go for it. I’m not. I never expect a player to step in and be elite immediately . How many QBs have truly done that in decades? Brady. Mahomes. Could make a case for a couple others. Some come hot out the gate then cool off. That’s on your expectations not on him. He didn’t come out and say “I will be elite”. He didn’t say “I’m generational and I promise to bring this franchise to glory”. I’m happy that he’s our franchise and that he’s a QB we can build around it’s just a matter of accomplishing that.

Step back from the cliff man. At this point I want Mac jones to start so people understand just how bad it can get at the position. We let Trevor walk in 2029, we’re back to QB purgatory. Full stop.

Trevor leads the league in turnovers since he's been in the league.  The fact that he's improved that in a 2-6 performance doesn't erase the fact that he still holds that record.  The fact that he spotted the Packers 14 points via turnovers is what lost yesterdays game.  Criticizing that aspect of his game isn't "holding Trevor to a standard no other QB in this league is held to", it's pointing out that he has to be more secure with the ball... Just like his head coach pointed out in the offseason.

I'll say it again, Trevor's contract isn't about him being overpaid (though I think there's an argument there) but if you believe that a new GM and Head Coach are needed, it adds a wrench in the hiring process.  Instead of offering a GM and a HC with a blank slate, you have to hire them with the understanding that the QB position (and the newly extended DE/CB) are already locked in for multiple years (4 years according to you post).  For example, if you really want Ben Johnson as a HC, he now has to agree that he can turn the team around with Trevor, as opposed to finding his own QB that may fit his system better.  It's not impossible that he'll agree, but it is an extra hurdle.

I'd bet you $10K right now that 9 out of 10 offensive HC candidates in the carousel this offseason would jump out of their [BLEEP] shoes for the chance to build an offense around Trevor Lawrence. 

BTW - Trevor's final drive for a TD yesterday alone outperformed Stroud's entire damn game against the packers defense. Maybe turn your ire back inside your own glass house there. 

And you harping on a career stat that has altered radically for the better this year just makes you look desperate to find fault. 
"BuT hE THrEw alL tHosE PicKs BeFoRe!! WhaaaaAa!"

Yesterday's turnovers consisted of a rookie receiver not curling on a curl route and a defender poking out the ball when TL was scrambling away from pressure given up by his linemen. I don't excuse either one of them - but the context is worthy of knowledge if you are going to take ONE GAME from this season to resurrect an otherwise dead argument. 

Give me a break. 

You want to pick apart the film in his 3 "bad" games from this season and build an intelligent argument why he should be better than that in year 3 of a Pederson offense?  I'd listen to that. But this argument is weak as hell.

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Trevor Lawrence signs a team-friendly deal that takes care of both him and the franchise for years and people still wanna [BLEEP] about it.

We could win the SB by a field goal and some would complain that we left 10 pts on the field.

"We'll never win nothin' with this bum!"

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Then watch him being raved about and what a talent he is and if only we had a QB like that.

And then who would I coddle?!?

Sure, the national media will love him at that point, but we'll know better as we argue about whether the next Quinn Gray should be starting over the next David Garrard while we watch Stroud hang 50 on the Jaguars defense that Baalke just rebuilt with high priced free agents again.

Lol, I can just see it now. And it will be one more year and a top 5 draft pick away yet again

---

Every QB in this league plays games with turnovers. You’re holding Trevor to a standard no other QB in this league is held to. That he would have to play perfect and flawless. Doesn’t matter what the team around them does. Trevor could throw for 25/30 , 400, 4 TDs and have one pick and you’d ask why he didn’t throw for five and didn’t play perfect when we lose 35-28.

As far as the slow starts? That’s on our staff. Our first 15 almost always fails; it’s always short runs and dink and dunk. And do you notice that once we go off script, and let Trevor rip the offense moved the ball? It’s been a consistent them that this team comes unprepared out the gate and that to me has to be asked of the coaches more then any player. Are defenses consistently seeing what we’re seeing on tape and easily shutting down the first 15? Blame Trevor, sure, but to me there’s a larger issue behind that. 

I agree Trevor’s development has been inconsistent. Which is why I’ve been adamant despite rosier outlooks that he’s not elite and may never be; however he’s talented and a good QB and that’s what this franchise has lacked for decades and if we throw it away in hopes of finding elite we’d be silly. 28-29 of the 32 teams in this league are “settling” for “mediocrity” with your standards. 

The contract? Again can we stop with this misinformation nonsense? The contract is not going to prevent a new regime from building around him.
2025: $17M, 5.9%, 20th/55 among QBs
2026: $24M, 8.3%, 19th/41 among QBs
2027: $35M, 11.1%, 13th/25 among QBs
2028: $47M (cutting him here would be a dead cap hit of $42M), 9th/12 among QBs
2029: $78M (cutting him here would be a dead cap of $21M), 2nd/8 among QBs
2030: $75M (cutting him here would be a dead cap of $7M), 1st/3 among QBs (Mahomes and Burrow are the other two)
2031: $21M (this is a void year and carries no dead cap hit), 2nd/2 among QBs (Mahomes is the other one)

Can’t truly rid him if that’s what you want until 2028 but his contract is built in a way we’re not hamstrung from building around him until 2029 which again we can cut him or rework him. Criticize the amount sure (which only makes him highest paid for 1-2 seasons) but we’re not shot in the kneecaps like you claim.

As far as record, that’s an ultimate team stat. Using your logic, mahomes should have MVP if the season ended today. He wouldn’t because he’s playing like a human QB.

We’re certainly going to lose the next four and I can guarantee Trevor will have great plays and bad plays because he’s gonna let it rip and we’re down his best two targets potentially. I’ll be waiting for it. Because on offense it’s just him, engram, Bigsby basically taking the offense on their back and will be desperate

Finally if you wanna be disappointed because of the hype, go for it. I’m not. I never expect a player to step in and be elite immediately . How many QBs have truly done that in decades? Brady. Mahomes. Could make a case for a couple others. Some come hot out the gate then cool off. That’s on your expectations not on him. He didn’t come out and say “I will be elite”. He didn’t say “I’m generational and I promise to bring this franchise to glory”. I’m happy that he’s our franchise and that he’s a QB we can build around it’s just a matter of accomplishing that.

Step back from the cliff man. At this point I want Mac jones to start so people understand just how bad it can get at the position. We let Trevor walk in 2029, we’re back to QB purgatory. Full stop.

Trevor leads the league in turnovers since he's been in the league.  The fact that he's improved that in a 2-6 performance doesn't erase the fact that he still holds that record.  The fact that he spotted the Packers 14 points via turnovers is what lost yesterdays game.  Criticizing that aspect of his game isn't "holding Trevor to a standard no other QB in this league is held to", it's pointing out that he has to be more secure with the ball... Just like his head coach pointed out in the offseason.

I'll say it again, Trevor's contract isn't about him being overpaid (though I think there's an argument there) but if you believe that a new GM and Head Coach are needed, it adds a wrench in the hiring process.  Instead of offering a GM and a HC with a blank slate, you have to hire them with the understanding that the QB position (and the newly extended DE/CB) are already locked in for multiple years (4 years according to you post).  For example, if you really want Ben Johnson as a HC, he now has to agree that he can turn the team around with Trevor, as opposed to finding his own QB that may fit his system better.  It's not impossible that he'll agree, but it is an extra hurdle.

of course he made the mistakes; and yes he has improved his turnover numbers in the 2-6 start, but our point is we don’t have a team that can support an imperfect QB. So he has to play a perfect game, every game if we want to be 6-2 rather then 2-6. That’s impossible to expect of any quarterback in the league. Measuring by that standard, Trevor will always be a disappointment. But we see and know that if he’s given even just a slightly mediocre defense and a line that plays adequate, he’s as good as most other quarterbacks out there. Even in this situation we find the team in, he’s in the top half of the league. Do I want that higher? Hell yeah! But a lot of that isn’t going to happen with the current state of things AND he also needs to continue improvement with taking care of the ball. 

As far as the GM and HC combo I can see most jumping at a chance to have the offensive centerpieces we have in place. I will give you this, should cincy fire Taylor that will be the more attractive place to go. Johnson would choose burrow over Trevor as things stand currently as would any other rational person.

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Trevor leads the league in turnovers since he's been in the league.  The fact that he's improved that in a 2-6 performance doesn't erase the fact that he still holds that record.  The fact that he spotted the Packers 14 points via turnovers is what lost yesterdays game.  Criticizing that aspect of his game isn't "holding Trevor to a standard no other QB in this league is held to", it's pointing out that he has to be more secure with the ball... Just like his head coach pointed out in the offseason.

I'll say it again, Trevor's contract isn't about him being overpaid (though I think there's an argument there) but if you believe that a new GM and Head Coach are needed, it adds a wrench in the hiring process.  Instead of offering a GM and a HC with a blank slate, you have to hire them with the understanding that the QB position (and the newly extended DE/CB) are already locked in for multiple years (4 years according to you post).  For example, if you really want Ben Johnson as a HC, he now has to agree that he can turn the team around with Trevor, as opposed to finding his own QB that may fit his system better.  It's not impossible that he'll agree, but it is an extra hurdle.

I'd bet you $10K right now that 9 out of 10 offensive HC candidates in the carousel this offseason would jump out of their [BLEEP] shoes for the chance to build an offense around Trevor Lawrence. 

BTW - Trevor's final drive for a TD yesterday alone outperformed Stroud's entire damn game against the packers defense. Maybe turn your ire back inside your own glass house there. 

And you harping on a career stat that has altered radically for the better this year just makes you look desperate to find fault. 
"BuT hE THrEw alL tHosE PicKs BeFoRe!! WhaaaaAa!"

Yesterday's turnovers consisted of a rookie receiver not curling on a curl route and a defender poking out the ball when TL was scrambling away from pressure given up by his linemen. I don't excuse either one of them - but the context is worthy of knowledge if you are going to take ONE GAME from this season to resurrect an otherwise dead argument. 

Give me a break. 

You want to pick apart the film in his 3 "bad" games from this season and build an intelligent argument why he should be better than that in year 3 of a Pederson offense?  I'd listen to that. But this argument is weak as hell.

To the bolded, the angle they showed on the jumbotron in the stadium showed BTJ not looking back for the ball until it was way too late. I love BTJ.  He's been our best receiver and a clear early significant contributor as a rookie which you love to see, but he is a rookie and will make rookie mistakes and this appears to may be one of them.  Had he looked, he could have curled in as you mention and been in front of the defender with the best chance at catching the ball.  

Also, Hacker mentioned in the post game that Kirk was also in the vicinity and it looked like maybe BTJ didn't get down field fast enough to take McKinney with him and that the pass might have actually been intended for Kirk (this is also what the TV announcer suggested when I re-watched the play at home).  I don't think Doug/Press are dumb and draw up bad plays like some might think (there may be some issues, I just don't think this is one of them), but two guys in the vicinity as close as they were without it being a pick play indicates to me that someone was out of position and if so that it was probably BTJ.  Or maybe Kirk ran a bad route/angle and got there quicker than he was supposed to which actually might make more sense because BTJ is anything but slow.  BTJ could have gotten tangled up and slowed at some point though.  Either way, Kirk's route was a deep crosser from what I can tell on the tv screen and BTJ's was a go and Kirk was almost in that same spot at almost the same time.  I'm sure you or someone will take a look on the all 22 and see better what the issue was.

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I'd bet you $10K right now that 9 out of 10 offensive HC candidates in the carousel this offseason would jump out of their [BLEEP] shoes for the chance to build an offense around Trevor Lawrence. 

BTW - Trevor's final drive for a TD yesterday alone outperformed Stroud's entire damn game against the packers defense. Maybe turn your ire back inside your own glass house there. 

And you harping on a career stat that has altered radically for the better this year just makes you look desperate to find fault. 
"BuT hE THrEw alL tHosE PicKs BeFoRe!! WhaaaaAa!"

Yesterday's turnovers consisted of a rookie receiver not curling on a curl route and a defender poking out the ball when TL was scrambling away from pressure given up by his linemen. I don't excuse either one of them - but the context is worthy of knowledge if you are going to take ONE GAME from this season to resurrect an otherwise dead argument. 

Give me a break. 

You want to pick apart the film in his 3 "bad" games from this season and build an intelligent argument why he should be better than that in year 3 of a Pederson offense?  I'd listen to that. But this argument is weak as hell.

To the bolded, the angle they showed on the jumbotron in the stadium showed BTJ not looking back for the ball until it was way too late. I love BTJ.  He's been our best receiver and a clear early significant contributor as a rookie which you love to see, but he is a rookie and will make rookie mistakes and this appears to may be one of them.  Had he looked, he could have curled in as you mention and been in front of the defender with the best chance at catching the ball.  

Also, Hacker mentioned in the post game that Kirk was also in the vicinity and it looked like maybe BTJ didn't get down field fast enough to take McKinney with him and that the pass might have actually been intended for Kirk (this is also what the TV announcer suggested when I re-watched the play at home).  I don't think Doug/Press are dumb and draw up bad plays like some might think (there may be some issues, I just don't think this is one of them), but two guys in the vicinity as close as they were without it being a pick play indicates to me that someone was out of position and if so that it was probably BTJ.  Or maybe Kirk ran a bad route/angle and got there quicker than he was supposed to which actually might make more sense because BTJ is anything but slow.  BTJ could have gotten tangled up and slowed at some point though.  Either way, Kirk's route was a deep crosser from what I can tell on the tv screen and BTJ's was a go and Kirk was almost in that same spot at almost the same time.  I'm sure you or someone will take a look on the all 22 and see better what the issue was.

Yeah - I saw the replay on twitter today and it looks like he was counting on Kirk beating his guy on the crosser and come out uncovered but it didn't happen. Which puts it a bit more on TL since it means he led him a step too far with the throw. 

I'll try to login to all22 later and see those angles. 

Regardless it does appear one or both of the receivers did not end up where they were supposed to be in addition to a probable wide throw from TL.

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And? He also coughed up a fumble inside the 5 and tossed an INT right back to them after being gifted a rare INT from this defense that resulted in 14 points being added to the board. 

I can't get onboard anymore with defending this guy entirely. The dog [BLEEP] starts on offense in Q1 are also on him as well. This team was 1/9 on third down's yesterday. A common theme. 

People gave StroudCrowd hell for stating that Lawrence is damaged goods. While I don't fully agree with that statement, he's not entirely wrong neither. Lawrence's development has been completely stunted by piss poor decision making from ownership, coaching changes and the front office. 

NOBODY should be content with what he's produced so far. 

NOBODY should be looking for silver lining in this [BLEEP] sandwich of a franchise. 

NOBODY should be making excuses for this nonsense after he inked a shiny new $275M deal. Which, by the way, will make it difficult for the next regime to potentially fix this "talented" roster. 

Why is it that C.J Stroud, Jayden Daniels and Caleb Williams all look like they're better prospects right out of the gate compared to what we saw and continue to see with Lawrence? Why is Lawrence seeing his worst completion percentage since his rookie season? Why is Lawrence seeing his lowest overall yardage output since his rookie season? 

There needs to be better accountability at this point with him being in year four. There needs to be even BETTER accountability and expectations placed on ownership, the coaching staff and front office. He's behind in his development. Period. He's not where he needs to be in year four. Period. 

Just like the cute little stat comparison of Stroud Vs. Lawrence this year. Stroud is in year two. Not year four. Are we really going to hang our hats on that "reading"? Please, spare me. Stroud's been miles ahead of Lawrence since last year. He's miles ahead of him now, and, again, as cited in here or another thread. 

You ARE what your record says you ARE. And his body of work speaks for itself along with the stats to back it up. We drafted Alex Smith 2.0. Jason Campbell 2.0. His dysfunctional surrounding is exactly similar to what Alex Smith went through in San Francisco. It's similar to what Campbell went through in Washington. 

While it's not ALL on Lawrence, he's not lived up to the hype for the most part. I am clearly hoping things improve with his said surrounding because that's the only way he's going to live up to his potential. He's dead in the water with this current regime. 

It's year four though folks. The training wheels have been off now since at least the 8 - 3 start in 2023. The training wheels were OFFICIALLY off once he inked that new contract. Enough with the excuses, nonsense and defending. Many, many things can be right at the same time. 

These next four games for him are fixing to be murderers row. 

Philadelphia
Minnesota
Detroit
Houston

If he plays mistake free football, wins half of those games and plays perfectly? I will happily eat my [BLEEP] crow, but, just like last year when the schedule got tough? His worst moments cropped up on the stat sheet and film room. I expect him to get his bell rung, banged up and his production to take a nose dive in the turnover department.

Every QB in this league plays games with turnovers. You’re holding Trevor to a standard no other QB in this league is held to. That he would have to play perfect and flawless. Doesn’t matter what the team around them does. Trevor could throw for 25/30 , 400, 4 TDs and have one pick and you’d ask why he didn’t throw for five and didn’t play perfect when we lose 35-28.

As far as the slow starts? That’s on our staff. Our first 15 almost always fails; it’s always short runs and dink and dunk. And do you notice that once we go off script, and let Trevor rip the offense moved the ball? It’s been a consistent them that this team comes unprepared out the gate and that to me has to be asked of the coaches more then any player. Are defenses consistently seeing what we’re seeing on tape and easily shutting down the first 15? Blame Trevor, sure, but to me there’s a larger issue behind that. 

I agree Trevor’s development has been inconsistent. Which is why I’ve been adamant despite rosier outlooks that he’s not elite and may never be; however he’s talented and a good QB and that’s what this franchise has lacked for decades and if we throw it away in hopes of finding elite we’d be silly. 28-29 of the 32 teams in this league are “settling” for “mediocrity” with your standards. 

The contract? Again can we stop with this misinformation nonsense? The contract is not going to prevent a new regime from building around him.
2025: $17M, 5.9%, 20th/55 among QBs
2026: $24M, 8.3%, 19th/41 among QBs
2027: $35M, 11.1%, 13th/25 among QBs
2028: $47M (cutting him here would be a dead cap hit of $42M), 9th/12 among QBs
2029: $78M (cutting him here would be a dead cap of $21M), 2nd/8 among QBs
2030: $75M (cutting him here would be a dead cap of $7M), 1st/3 among QBs (Mahomes and Burrow are the other two)
2031: $21M (this is a void year and carries no dead cap hit), 2nd/2 among QBs (Mahomes is the other one)

Can’t truly rid him if that’s what you want until 2028 but his contract is built in a way we’re not hamstrung from building around him until 2029 which again we can cut him or rework him. Criticize the amount sure (which only makes him highest paid for 1-2 seasons) but we’re not shot in the kneecaps like you claim.

As far as record, that’s an ultimate team stat. Using your logic, mahomes should have MVP if the season ended today. He wouldn’t because he’s playing like a human QB.

We’re certainly going to lose the next four and I can guarantee Trevor will have great plays and bad plays because he’s gonna let it rip and we’re down his best two targets potentially. I’ll be waiting for it. Because on offense it’s just him, engram, Bigsby basically taking the offense on their back and will be desperate

Finally if you wanna be disappointed because of the hype, go for it. I’m not. I never expect a player to step in and be elite immediately . How many QBs have truly done that in decades? Brady. Mahomes. Could make a case for a couple others. Some come hot out the gate then cool off. That’s on your expectations not on him. He didn’t come out and say “I will be elite”. He didn’t say “I’m generational and I promise to bring this franchise to glory”. I’m happy that he’s our franchise and that he’s a QB we can build around it’s just a matter of accomplishing that.

Step back from the cliff man. At this point I want Mac jones to start so people understand just how bad it can get at the position. We let Trevor walk in 2029, we’re back to QB purgatory. Full stop.

You continue to pick and choose what you want to see when it comes to my stance on Lawrence. I have said it numerous times. It's not all on him, it's more on the mistakes from ownership, the team builder and coaching staff. It's still year four with him in the NFL, it still does not erase what his statistics show and it doesn't erase that this team is abysmal. 

Again, he's not ALL to blame, but, he's been apart of the problem as well at times. I am disappointed in all of this. We all should be. The hype was real after 2022's 2nd half finish and 2023's 1st half start. THAT was the new standard. THAT was the expectation. THAT was the building blocks we expected to see from Lawrence as he ascended into the top three conversation for the position.

And, again, as cited already, the "Achilles Heel" moment for this franchise, it all started last year with Lawrence's ankle injury. It's been the metaphorical downfall for this team ever since it occurred. I haven't given up on the kid. I have given up on the people around him. I have given up on the people who have failed him. 

I still have hope he can be molded into what he was billed out to be. With adequate support around him and a coaching staff that gives a damn. He doesn't have that now and it's clearly been showing since the 1 - 9 backslide of last year with that funk carrying over into this year.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Trevor leads the league in turnovers since he's been in the league.  The fact that he's improved that in a 2-6 performance doesn't erase the fact that he still holds that record.  The fact that he spotted the Packers 14 points via turnovers is what lost yesterdays game.  Criticizing that aspect of his game isn't "holding Trevor to a standard no other QB in this league is held to", it's pointing out that he has to be more secure with the ball... Just like his head coach pointed out in the offseason.

I'll say it again, Trevor's contract isn't about him being overpaid (though I think there's an argument there) but if you believe that a new GM and Head Coach are needed, it adds a wrench in the hiring process.  Instead of offering a GM and a HC with a blank slate, you have to hire them with the understanding that the QB position (and the newly extended DE/CB) are already locked in for multiple years (4 years according to you post).  For example, if you really want Ben Johnson as a HC, he now has to agree that he can turn the team around with Trevor, as opposed to finding his own QB that may fit his system better.  It's not impossible that he'll agree, but it is an extra hurdle.

I'd bet you $10K right now that 9 out of 10 offensive HC candidates in the carousel this offseason would jump out of their [BLEEP] shoes for the chance to build an offense around Trevor Lawrence. 

BTW - Trevor's final drive for a TD yesterday alone outperformed Stroud's entire damn game against the packers defense. Maybe turn your ire back inside your own glass house there. 

And you harping on a career stat that has altered radically for the better this year just makes you look desperate to find fault. 
"BuT hE THrEw alL tHosE PicKs BeFoRe!! WhaaaaAa!"

Yesterday's turnovers consisted of a rookie receiver not curling on a curl route and a defender poking out the ball when TL was scrambling away from pressure given up by his linemen. I don't excuse either one of them - but the context is worthy of knowledge if you are going to take ONE GAME from this season to resurrect an otherwise dead argument. 

Give me a break. 

You want to pick apart the film in his 3 "bad" games from this season and build an intelligent argument why he should be better than that in year 3 of a Pederson offense?  I'd listen to that. But this argument is weak as hell.

I was gonna reply to him as well.  I'll just bold what you said, because it's dead on correct.

When Pederson is (hopefully) fired, the Jaguars will be the most enticing job opening for both a HC and a GM.  And that is because of Lawrence.  Of the teams that are going to potentially fire thier HC's, Trevor Lawrence is head and shoulders the best QB.  On top of that, the college QBs that will make up the 2025 draft class don't look that impressive.  This is a down year for drafting a college QB, many believe.  

Unless the Bengals fire their Taylor and/or the Bears fire Eberfluse (or however you spell his name), Lawrence is the best QB out there for a HC to come and work with.

McCarthy is gonna be fired in Dallas, but there's no young up and coming OC that would want to start their Head Coaching career under the thumb of Jerry Jones.  Plus, I think Lawrence has way more upside that Dak.  So besides Chicago and Cincy, what other potential job opening has a QB that has so much talent and potential than Lawrence?  

We're not in a rebuild, either.  We are in a situation where we make a few changes, specifically on D, and this team is a playoff contender.  And that's mainly because of the offense and out QB, specifically.

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I'd bet you $10K right now that 9 out of 10 offensive HC candidates in the carousel this offseason would jump out of their [BLEEP] shoes for the chance to build an offense around Trevor Lawrence. 

BTW - Trevor's final drive for a TD yesterday alone outperformed Stroud's entire damn game against the packers defense. Maybe turn your ire back inside your own glass house there. 

And you harping on a career stat that has altered radically for the better this year just makes you look desperate to find fault. 
"BuT hE THrEw alL tHosE PicKs BeFoRe!! WhaaaaAa!"

Yesterday's turnovers consisted of a rookie receiver not curling on a curl route and a defender poking out the ball when TL was scrambling away from pressure given up by his linemen. I don't excuse either one of them - but the context is worthy of knowledge if you are going to take ONE GAME from this season to resurrect an otherwise dead argument. 

Give me a break. 

You want to pick apart the film in his 3 "bad" games from this season and build an intelligent argument why he should be better than that in year 3 of a Pederson offense?  I'd listen to that. But this argument is weak as hell.

I was gonna reply to him as well.  I'll just bold what you said, because it's dead on correct.

When Pederson is (hopefully) fired, the Jaguars will be the most enticing job opening for both a HC and a GM.  And that is because of Lawrence.  Of the teams that are going to potentially fire thier HC's, Trevor Lawrence is head and shoulders the best QB.  On top of that, the college QBs that will make up the 2025 draft class don't look that impressive.  This is a down year for drafting a college QB, many believe.  

Unless the Bengals fire their Taylor and/or the Bears fire Eberfluse (or however you spell his name), Lawrence is the best QB out there for a HC to come and work with.

McCarthy is gonna be fired in Dallas, but there's no young up and coming OC that would want to start their Head Coaching career under the thumb of Jerry Jones.  Plus, I think Lawrence has way more upside that Dak.  So besides Chicago and Cincy, what other potential job opening has a QB that has so much talent and potential than Lawrence?  

We're not in a rebuild, either.  We are in a situation where we make a few changes, specifically on D, and this team is a playoff contender.  And that's mainly because of the offense and out QB, specifically.

Our job will be an attractive one IMO like you mentioned. But I think it is highly dependent on if we get rid of Baalke… he is widely regarded as a GM who is difficult to work with.. and I know most don’t think this but I think we do get rid of everyone. You can only play the same card so much.

To keep this Trevor related after watching all 22 what he did with the injuries sustained is a noteworthy performance. He is improving and with the weapons we will have around him this will become a very attractive job to a potential HC candidate. All QBs make mistakes …. And like it was previously mentioned unlike others we don’t have a defense to bail him out of his. But he put us in position to win this game despite the mistakes against a really good defense. He is stringing together some very impressive games in a row.

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He’s still only 25. QBs have a long shelf life. He’s going to be good for another decade at least. We just have to start putting the right people and pieces around him.

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Also he’s top 10 on pff rating and in qbr and almost every statistical category all while playing for a dog [BLEEP] team. Everyone here should counting their blessings that we have him.

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I'd trade Trevor not improving a drop over the next 5 years, for a defense that is at least above average to accompany this version of Trevor.

I expect Trevor to improve with time.

The Jags won't win anything in this league until they field a defense that's stout on the DLine, has two corners that can cover and has two safeties that are instinctual in how they play the run and pass.

The Jags can win their division for years with Trevor if the defense is just above average.

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The Other Jag Forum: Duval Football Fans.

Brandon Scherff is no longer that dude.   Next season I want him gone.

Trevor leads the league in turnovers since he's been in the league.  The fact that he's improved that in a 2-6 performance doesn't erase the fact that he still holds that record.  The fact that he spotted the Packers 14 points via turnovers is what lost yesterdays game.  Criticizing that aspect of his game isn't "holding Trevor to a standard no other QB in this league is held to", it's pointing out that he has to be more secure with the ball... Just like his head coach pointed out in the offseason.

I'll say it again, Trevor's contract isn't about him being overpaid (though I think there's an argument there) but if you believe that a new GM and Head Coach are needed, it adds a wrench in the hiring process.  Instead of offering a GM and a HC with a blank slate, you have to hire them with the understanding that the QB position (and the newly extended DE/CB) are already locked in for multiple years (4 years according to you post).  For example, if you really want Ben Johnson as a HC, he now has to agree that he can turn the team around with Trevor, as opposed to finding his own QB that may fit his system better.  It's not impossible that he'll agree, but it is an extra hurdle.

I'd bet you $10K right now that 9 out of 10 offensive HC candidates in the carousel this offseason would jump out of their [BLEEP] shoes for the chance to build an offense around Trevor Lawrence. 

BTW - Trevor's final drive for a TD yesterday alone outperformed Stroud's entire damn game against the packers defense. Maybe turn your ire back inside your own glass house there. 

And you harping on a career stat that has altered radically for the better this year just makes you look desperate to find fault. 
"BuT hE THrEw alL tHosE PicKs BeFoRe!! WhaaaaAa!"

Yesterday's turnovers consisted of a rookie receiver not curling on a curl route and a defender poking out the ball when TL was scrambling away from pressure given up by his linemen. I don't excuse either one of them - but the context is worthy of knowledge if you are going to take ONE GAME from this season to resurrect an otherwise dead argument. 

Give me a break. 

You want to pick apart the film in his 3 "bad" games from this season and build an intelligent argument why he should be better than that in year 3 of a Pederson offense?  I'd listen to that. But this argument is weak as hell.

All I can say is that's where we disagree.  IMO Trevor Lawrence under his current contract is a hindrance, not a benefit for the next GM/coaching staff.  Stroud really?  I'll bet you 20k that every incoming coaching candidate would take Stroud over Lawrence given the option.

Watch the previously posted of video of Trevor's fumble.  If you think he shouldn't have put two hands on the ball with an incoming defender, then I don't know what to tell you.  Of course the defender went for the ball... That is what they're trained to do!

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

https://youtu.be/f6UVFXL6LLw?si=gqYIDCkVGHUEhGaB

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