I hope Gabe Davis never suits up for the Jags again.

In the long list of FA busts, he may be #1.

He's up there with Jerry Porter for sure.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

To me, if you're looking for a silver lining, the team doesn't have to make many drastic cuts to have the cap space needed to improve the roster. Just a few.

Having 60 mil free before cuts  - and then having the standard early round picks plus two picks in the third, and two picks in the fourth (which I'd package and trade up with)  - that's  a solid amount of capital already.

On defense they need two safeties, a starting #2 corner, a disruptive DT.
On offense they need to sign/draft a second tackle regardless of where they put Harrison, they need a new Z receiver (Davis should be gone IMO) and they need a guard that can play either side.

We can list other places to upgrade, sure, but these are the lynchpins causing most of the damage or slated to be missing pieces in 2025.

It's seven starters out of 22.

Very doable in one offseason.

---

To me, if you're looking for a silver lining, the team doesn't have to make many drastic cuts to have the cap space needed to improve the roster. Just a few.

Having 60 mil free before cuts  - and then having the standard early round picks plus two picks in the third, and two picks in the fourth (which I'd package and trade up with)  - that's  a solid amount of capital already.

On defense they need two safeties, a starting #2 corner, a disruptive DT.
On offense they need to sign/draft a second tackle regardless of where they put Harrison, they need a new Z receiver (Davis should be gone IMO) and they need a guard that can play either side.

We can list other places to upgrade, sure, but these are the lynchpins causing most of the damage or slated to be missing pieces in 2025.

It's seven starters out of 22.

Very doable in one offseason.

That's also a good way of looking at it. There's the players we have that are going FA but also where you want to make improvements and bring in starters. The $60m cap space gives you the option of taking a hit or two with dead money to move on players and still have the ability to bring a few in FA. Like you say we have a nice amount of early rounds picks to address a few of these issues and I wouldn't be against using a 3rd or 4th rounder to trade for someone who can be a starter instead of having too many rookies learning all at once.

My instinct right now is that D needs addressing the most urgently. Whatever pick we end up with I'd like to use on D (if we end up with #1 then maybe trade back to #4/#5 and get another pick) and 2nd Round on Oline. 

I agree with all your areas of need and would like to maybe add another LB.

---

I hope Gabe Davis never suits up for the Jags again.

In the long list of FA busts, he may be #1.

I agree with you but his contract is a horrible one for us moving on. His salary is $6.7m but his dead money is $20.3m

Maybe we can use him to do the jumping from the roof of the stadium before games?

---

Regardless of the cap situation, can't keep trying to build through free agency. Organization has been running on that hamster wheel for decades, expecting different results, only to fall on it's face countless times. Need to actually draft good players. I know that sounds crazy, but it's literally what all the good organizations do. Good organizations aren't constantly in reset mode every 3 years. How many times has this organization "won" the offseason?

Look at the team that just won 52-6 against this dumpster fire. A team that was right there with us as a dumpster fire back in 2021. St.Brown, Jamo, Laporta, Gibbs , 4/5 on the O-line- Decker, Glasgow, Ragnow, Sewell. Glasgow resigned back with the team, but was a hit by the FO regardless, and came back. A bona-fide core built through the draft, built also with a trade that acquired them Goff and multiple first round picks (which they hit on). Defensively - Hutchinson, Branch, Joseph, Arnold, McNeil, Pascal, Cambell, Onwuzurike, Rodriguez. All starters. A legit core of players built through the draft, coupled with good FA pick ups- Anzalone, Davis, Montgomery, Zeitler, and Reader. We are so far from being competitive it's not even funny, and people just want to keep up this "Nah, just a few FA pick ups away" BS. I don't have any hope that Khan will understand this, and continue to trust the process with Baalke and horrendous drafts coupled with moronic FA pick ups.

I think everyone agrees that we need to find players in the draft that are our building blocks. We have so many high picks and may be adding a 3rd #1 pick to the roster soon so there's no reason we can't find those guys. The problem we have is developing those players to become elite, game changing and game winning players. We can argue it's the coaching, schemes, players not taking those steps but we have a long list of guys that should have been stars but haven't. That's the biggest thing this franchise needs to improve on going forwards.

Now you list a lot of Lions players and they've done a great job. They've identified guys that fit the system but also the culture they are building. That's the magic formula. The problem is that's a multi year approach. You can't fix all your problems in one draft and not every pick will work out. Will fans accept a 3-4 year rebuild through the draft at this point?

I agree FA isn't the answer to all our problems but it does give you a second avenue to improve your roster. I'm not saying we go on a spending spree but to just ignore as we've got our fingers burnt seems a route that makes your life harder (and we have had some FA successes)

1st bold- C'mon man, how many top 10 picks have we had in the last 20 years? There is plenty of reason to believe we will NOT find those guys. There is certainly a development aspect, but you gotta pick ballers man. We simply pick anti-ballers. 

2nd bold- As it should be. We wouldn't be where we are in terms of overall talent if we draft at least average. We are expansion team level talent bad. Which is why when you look of the example of the Lions, who drafted amazingly, it's possible but it's going to take time. 

Let's go back starting at 2008, let's look at some top picks.... sort of see if we have hit ... on anything? In my opinion a top 10 pick should be a multiyear probowler at minimum. 
2008- Rd1 Pick8- Derrick Harvey 
2009- Rd 1 Pick 8- Eugene Monroe
2010- Rd 1 pick 10- Tyson Alualu
2011- Rd 1 pick 10- Blaine Gabbert
2012- Rd 1 pick 5- Justin Blackmon (unfortunate, would of been great)
2013- Rd 1 pick 2- Luke Joeckel 
2014- Rd 1 pick 3- Blake Bortles
2015- Rd 1 pick 3- Dante Fowler
2016- Rd 1 pick 5- Jalen Ramsey
2017- Rd 1 pick 4- Lenny Fournette
2018- Rd 1 pick 29- Taven Bryant
2019- Rd 1 pick 7- JHA
2020- Rd 1 pick 9- CJ Henderson Rd 1 pick 20- Chaisson
2021- Rd 1 pick 1- TLAW Rd 1 pick 25- ETN
2022- RD 1 pick 1- Travon Walker
2023/2024- Anton/BTJ too early to tell, but BTJ looks like an absolute smash

Bolded are elite talents, maybe Tlaw can get there.. let's hope..

All these top 10 picks... anybody even getting into the pride? Was Jalen here long enough to warrant that? I don't think so. These are just the round 1's , the list goes crazy when you include the early round 2 and round 3 picks. We've fundamentally failed at the draft, and that is what needs to change... multiple years of it, to turn this around. Not some spare cap that we get some trash from other teams they don't want to pay for.

---

To me, if you're looking for a silver lining, the team doesn't have to make many drastic cuts to have the cap space needed to improve the roster. Just a few.

Having 60 mil free before cuts  - and then having the standard early round picks plus two picks in the third, and two picks in the fourth (which I'd package and trade up with)  - that's  a solid amount of capital already.

On defense they need two safeties, a starting #2 corner, a disruptive DT.
On offense they need to sign/draft a second tackle regardless of where they put Harrison, they need a new Z receiver (Davis should be gone IMO) and they need a guard that can play either side.

We can list other places to upgrade, sure, but these are the lynchpins causing most of the damage or slated to be missing pieces in 2025.

It's seven starters out of 22.

Very doable in one offseason.

---

To me, if you're looking for a silver lining, the team doesn't have to make many drastic cuts to have the cap space needed to improve the roster. Just a few.

Having 60 mil free before cuts  - and then having the standard early round picks plus two picks in the third, and two picks in the fourth (which I'd package and trade up with)  - that's  a solid amount of capital already.

On defense they need two safeties, a starting #2 corner, a disruptive DT.
On offense they need to sign/draft a second tackle regardless of where they put Harrison, they need a new Z receiver (Davis should be gone IMO) and they need a guard that can play either side.

We can list other places to upgrade, sure, but these are the lynchpins causing most of the damage or slated to be missing pieces in 2025.

It's seven starters out of 22.

Very doable in one offseason.

That's also a good way of looking at it. There's the players we have that are going FA but also where you want to make improvements and bring in starters. The $60m cap space gives you the option of taking a hit or two with dead money to move on players and still have the ability to bring a few in FA. Like you say we have a nice amount of early rounds picks to address a few of these issues and I wouldn't be against using a 3rd or 4th rounder to trade for someone who can be a starter instead of having too many rookies learning all at once.

My instinct right now is that D needs addressing the most urgently. Whatever pick we end up with I'd like to use on D (if we end up with #1 then maybe trade back to #4/#5 and get another pick) and 2nd Round on Oline. 

I agree with all your areas of need and would like to maybe add another LB.

---

I hope Gabe Davis never suits up for the Jags again.

In the long list of FA busts, he may be #1.

I agree with you but his contract is a horrible one for us moving on. His salary is $6.7m but his dead money is $20.3m

Maybe we can use him to do the jumping from the roof of the stadium before games?

I would pay 20 million for him not to be a Jaguar.

---

New FO and coaching staff will make their own evals and there will be a total roster overhaul IMO.

---

Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Learn from the great collapse of 2023.  

I hope Gabe Davis never suits up for the Jags again.

In the long list of FA busts, he may be #1.

I think (and hope) he was just playing injured.

---

I think everyone agrees that we need to find players in the draft that are our building blocks. We have so many high picks and may be adding a 3rd #1 pick to the roster soon so there's no reason we can't find those guys. The problem we have is developing those players to become elite, game changing and game winning players. We can argue it's the coaching, schemes, players not taking those steps but we have a long list of guys that should have been stars but haven't. That's the biggest thing this franchise needs to improve on going forwards.

Now you list a lot of Lions players and they've done a great job. They've identified guys that fit the system but also the culture they are building. That's the magic formula. The problem is that's a multi year approach. You can't fix all your problems in one draft and not every pick will work out. Will fans accept a 3-4 year rebuild through the draft at this point?

I agree FA isn't the answer to all our problems but it does give you a second avenue to improve your roster. I'm not saying we go on a spending spree but to just ignore as we've got our fingers burnt seems a route that makes your life harder (and we have had some FA successes)

1st bold- C'mon man, how many top 10 picks have we had in the last 20 years? There is plenty of reason to believe we will NOT find those guys. There is certainly a development aspect, but you gotta pick ballers man. We simply pick anti-ballers. 

2nd bold- As it should be. We wouldn't be where we are in terms of overall talent if we draft at least average. We are expansion team level talent bad. Which is why when you look of the example of the Lions, who drafted amazingly, it's possible but it's going to take time. 

Let's go back starting at 2008, let's look at some top picks.... sort of see if we have hit ... on anything? In my opinion a top 10 pick should be a multiyear probowler at minimum. 
2008- Rd1 Pick8- Derrick Harvey 
2009- Rd 1 Pick 8- Eugene Monroe
2010- Rd 1 pick 10- Tyson Alualu
2011- Rd 1 pick 10- Blaine Gabbert
2012- Rd 1 pick 5- Justin Blackmon (unfortunate, would of been great)
2013- Rd 1 pick 2- Luke Joeckel 
2014- Rd 1 pick 3- Blake Bortles
2015- Rd 1 pick 3- Dante Fowler
2016- Rd 1 pick 5- Jalen Ramsey
2017- Rd 1 pick 4- Lenny Fournette
2018- Rd 1 pick 29- Taven Bryant
2019- Rd 1 pick 7- JHA
2020- Rd 1 pick 9- CJ Henderson Rd 1 pick 20- Chaisson
2021- Rd 1 pick 1- TLAW Rd 1 pick 25- ETN
2022- RD 1 pick 1- Travon Walker
2023/2024- Anton/BTJ too early to tell, but BTJ looks like an absolute smash

Bolded are elite talents, maybe Tlaw can get there.. let's hope..

All these top 10 picks... anybody even getting into the pride? Was Jalen here long enough to warrant that? I don't think so. These are just the round 1's , the list goes crazy when you include the early round 2 and round 3 picks. We've fundamentally failed at the draft, and that is what needs to change... multiple years of it, to turn this around. Not some spare cap that we get some trash from other teams they don't want to pay for.

The sad part is that I'm not sure Justin Blackmon should be bolded as he only played 20 total games, according to your definition.  I think beyond drafting all-star players in the early round, is that the later rounds didn't result in enough decent starters/backups.  In that case the draft/FA becomes patching holes, rather than upgrading positions.

---

NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

I think everyone agrees that we need to find players in the draft that are our building blocks. We have so many high picks and may be adding a 3rd #1 pick to the roster soon so there's no reason we can't find those guys. The problem we have is developing those players to become elite, game changing and game winning players. We can argue it's the coaching, schemes, players not taking those steps but we have a long list of guys that should have been stars but haven't. That's the biggest thing this franchise needs to improve on going forwards.

Now you list a lot of Lions players and they've done a great job. They've identified guys that fit the system but also the culture they are building. That's the magic formula. The problem is that's a multi year approach. You can't fix all your problems in one draft and not every pick will work out. Will fans accept a 3-4 year rebuild through the draft at this point?

I agree FA isn't the answer to all our problems but it does give you a second avenue to improve your roster. I'm not saying we go on a spending spree but to just ignore as we've got our fingers burnt seems a route that makes your life harder (and we have had some FA successes)

1st bold- C'mon man, how many top 10 picks have we had in the last 20 years? There is plenty of reason to believe we will NOT find those guys. There is certainly a development aspect, but you gotta pick ballers man. We simply pick anti-ballers. 

2nd bold- As it should be. We wouldn't be where we are in terms of overall talent if we draft at least average. We are expansion team level talent bad. Which is why when you look of the example of the Lions, who drafted amazingly, it's possible but it's going to take time. 

Let's go back starting at 2008, let's look at some top picks.... sort of see if we have hit ... on anything? In my opinion a top 10 pick should be a multiyear probowler at minimum. 
2008- Rd1 Pick8- Derrick Harvey 
2009- Rd 1 Pick 8- Eugene Monroe
2010- Rd 1 pick 10- Tyson Alualu
2011- Rd 1 pick 10- Blaine Gabbert
2012- Rd 1 pick 5- Justin Blackmon (unfortunate, would of been great)
2013- Rd 1 pick 2- Luke Joeckel 
2014- Rd 1 pick 3- Blake Bortles
2015- Rd 1 pick 3- Dante Fowler
2016- Rd 1 pick 5- Jalen Ramsey
2017- Rd 1 pick 4- Lenny Fournette
2018- Rd 1 pick 29- Taven Bryant
2019- Rd 1 pick 7- JHA
2020- Rd 1 pick 9- CJ Henderson Rd 1 pick 20- Chaisson
2021- Rd 1 pick 1- TLAW Rd 1 pick 25- ETN
2022- RD 1 pick 1- Travon Walker
2023/2024- Anton/BTJ too early to tell, but BTJ looks like an absolute smash

Bolded are elite talents, maybe Tlaw can get there.. let's hope..

All these top 10 picks... anybody even getting into the pride? Was Jalen here long enough to warrant that? I don't think so. These are just the round 1's , the list goes crazy when you include the early round 2 and round 3 picks. We've fundamentally failed at the draft, and that is what needs to change... multiple years of it, to turn this around. Not some spare cap that we get some trash from other teams they don't want to pay for.

Looking at this list is enough to make any Jaguars fan sick. I counted 18 players on your list. I would categorize these as follows:

Excellent Picks:

Josh Hines-Allen 

Brian Thomas Jr.- Unless he gets a serious injury, I expect him to be a perennial pro-bowler and difference-maker


No brainer picks:

Trevor Lawrence

Luke Joeckel: Yes, he was a total bust, but the team needed a left tackle and basically everyone thought he'd be a very good pro. 


O.K. Picks:

Tyson Alualu

Eugene Monroe

Blaine Gabbert: Another bust, but he had good size and a very good arm. Who really knew that he lacked leadership skills and would cower when faced with a pass rush?

Travis Etienne


Bad Picks:

Blake Bortles: Not worthy of where he was selected, but was very tough and should have taken them to the Super Bowl if not for terrible call by ref.

Dante Fowler: He underachieved for the Jaguars. Best known for witnessing "cat fight" and allowing it to go on. Leonard Williams should have been the pick.

Leonard Fournette: Could have had Mahomes, McCaffrey or Dalvin Cook. Enough said.


Terrible Picks:

Derrick Harvey- They gave up several picks to take a below average player in the first round.

Justin Blackmon- Talent wise, he had it all. Other teams had taken him off their board, due to issues with alcohol. Not our Jaguars.

Taven Bryan, Chaisson and Henderson- No explanation necessary

Trevon Walker: He is a good player who will likely make a few pro bowls. But, 31 other G.M.'s would have taken Aiden Hutchinson who may end up in the NFL HOF.


To be determined:


Anton Harrison: Believe he can be a good/very good left tackle once he gets more experience.



Category of it's own:

Jalen Ramsay: Most talented draft pick whose bad attitude caused divisiveness on the team forcing his trade to the Rams. I can assure you that he'll never make The Pride, but is a candidate for the Wall of Shame!


By my count, that makes only 4 of 18 picks that were either good or excellent. Is there any wonder why they have been so bad for so long?

---

I hope Gabe Davis never suits up for the Jags again.

In the long list of FA busts, he may be #1.

Armstead and Darby is right there with him.  I think the biggest issue with Armstead though is he is playing out of position.

---

I hope Gabe Davis never suits up for the Jags again.

In the long list of FA busts, he may be #1.

Armstead and Darby is right there with him.  I think the biggest issue with Armstead though is he is playing out of position.

BINGO!!

---

A new broom always sweeps clean.

Armstead and Darby is right there with him.  I think the biggest issue with Armstead though is he is playing out of position.

BINGO!!

I think our new DC will put Armstead back at 3 tech and we will get much more out of him than what we have seen this year.

---

BINGO!!

I think our new DC will put Armstead back at 3 tech and we will get much more out of him than what we have seen this year.

You don't think he would give push back about it?

The reports were that part of why he signed he was because he was promised he would be used as a DE.

Plus his contract is ugly. No easy out with the dead money hit and he even hits the cap hard after the contract expires which stinks.

---

Really need help in the secondary big time. As that has been pretty much a weak link. One of many!

---

Ready for May Day, May Flowers, and Memorial and Mother's Day!

Enjoy the stress free sunday/Monday

---

Enjoy the stress free sunday/Monday

At least my Noles won yesterday.. Them dudes 2-9 now lololol

Of course, they beat a 1-9 team.. Small victory in the grand scheme of things, but still feels good.

---

I think our new DC will put Armstead back at 3 tech and we will get much more out of him than what we have seen this year.

You don't think he would give push back about it?

The reports were that part of why he signed he was because he was promised he would be used as a DE.

Plus his contract is ugly. No easy out with the dead money hit and he even hits the cap hard after the contract expires which stinks.

If that report is true, then that's a pretty silly thing to promise an incoming FA.  If you're signing a guy with 28M guaranteed, the only promise you should make is "We'll play you at a position that will best help the team."

---

NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

I think our new DC will put Armstead back at 3 tech and we will get much more out of him than what we have seen this year.

You don't think he would give push back about it?

The reports were that part of why he signed he was because he was promised he would be used as a DE.

Plus his contract is ugly. No easy out with the dead money hit and he even hits the cap hard after the contract expires which stinks.

On his podcast he said the coaches want him at DE and that he feels better at DT.  Straight from the horses mouth instead of reports

---

sorry to intrude on this post,but i just posted a very very important subject non-football related. 




https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=39985

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

I think everyone agrees that we need to find players in the draft that are our building blocks. We have so many high picks and may be adding a 3rd #1 pick to the roster soon so there's no reason we can't find those guys. The problem we have is developing those players to become elite, game changing and game winning players. We can argue it's the coaching, schemes, players not taking those steps but we have a long list of guys that should have been stars but haven't. That's the biggest thing this franchise needs to improve on going forwards.

Now you list a lot of Lions players and they've done a great job. They've identified guys that fit the system but also the culture they are building. That's the magic formula. The problem is that's a multi year approach. You can't fix all your problems in one draft and not every pick will work out. Will fans accept a 3-4 year rebuild through the draft at this point?

I agree FA isn't the answer to all our problems but it does give you a second avenue to improve your roster. I'm not saying we go on a spending spree but to just ignore as we've got our fingers burnt seems a route that makes your life harder (and we have had some FA successes)

1st bold- C'mon man, how many top 10 picks have we had in the last 20 years? There is plenty of reason to believe we will NOT find those guys. There is certainly a development aspect, but you gotta pick ballers man. We simply pick anti-ballers. 

2nd bold- As it should be. We wouldn't be where we are in terms of overall talent if we draft at least average. We are expansion team level talent bad. Which is why when you look of the example of the Lions, who drafted amazingly, it's possible but it's going to take time. 

Let's go back starting at 2008, let's look at some top picks.... sort of see if we have hit ... on anything? In my opinion a top 10 pick should be a multiyear probowler at minimum. 
2008- Rd1 Pick8- Derrick Harvey 
2009- Rd 1 Pick 8- Eugene Monroe
2010- Rd 1 pick 10- Tyson Alualu
2011- Rd 1 pick 10- Blaine Gabbert
2012- Rd 1 pick 5- Justin Blackmon (unfortunate, would of been great)
2013- Rd 1 pick 2- Luke Joeckel 
2014- Rd 1 pick 3- Blake Bortles
2015- Rd 1 pick 3- Dante Fowler
2016- Rd 1 pick 5- Jalen Ramsey
2017- Rd 1 pick 4- Lenny Fournette
2018- Rd 1 pick 29- Taven Bryant
2019- Rd 1 pick 7- JHA
2020- Rd 1 pick 9- CJ Henderson Rd 1 pick 20- Chaisson
2021- Rd 1 pick 1- TLAW Rd 1 pick 25- ETN
2022- RD 1 pick 1- Travon Walker
2023/2024- Anton/BTJ too early to tell, but BTJ looks like an absolute smash

Bolded are elite talents, maybe Tlaw can get there.. let's hope..

All these top 10 picks... anybody even getting into the pride? Was Jalen here long enough to warrant that? I don't think so. These are just the round 1's , the list goes crazy when you include the early round 2 and round 3 picks. We've fundamentally failed at the draft, and that is what needs to change... multiple years of it, to turn this around. Not some spare cap that we get some trash from other teams they don't want to pay for.

Ramsey's NFL career is good enough, but no chance he makes the pride given that he was only here less than 4 years, and he was the one who forced himself off the team.  However, and this involves speculation, but I do think there are four names up there that have a decent chance of being in the pride some day:

Trevor Lawrence - He will be our quarterback for the long term.  I think his stats will get better with experience plus having a better surrounding cast.  Assuming he stays healthy, I think he will break most of Brunell's record before his career is over.

Josh Hines-Allen - He's currently our second all-time sack leader and only 5 sacks behind the leader.  He's signed for the next four years.  He is also one who I think will have better stats when we put a better team around him.  It's hard to get sacks when your secondary leaves receivers wide open.  Quarterbacks will avoid the sack by throwing to an open receiver. 

Travon Walker - He has 7.5 sacks in 11 games this year.  If he does that over a full season, it comes to over 11.5 sacks.  If he can continue to do that in future years, it would be a wonderful career.  Also, similar to JHA, I think he will have more sacks when we get him a better surrounding cast.  Walker was also taken as a project with high upside.  I don't think that he's hit his potential yet.  

Brian Thomas Jr. - Ok, this one is almost all speculation given that BTJ is a rookie, but I definitely see the potential for him to be our best wide receiver since Jimmy Smith.

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Is the AFC South still winnable? What a trash division.

---