I think everyone agrees that we need to find players in the draft that are our building blocks. We have so many high picks and may be adding a 3rd #1 pick to the roster soon so there's no reason we can't find those guys. The problem we have is developing those players to become elite, game changing and game winning players. We can argue it's the coaching, schemes, players not taking those steps but we have a long list of guys that should have been stars but haven't. That's the biggest thing this franchise needs to improve on going forwards.

Now you list a lot of Lions players and they've done a great job. They've identified guys that fit the system but also the culture they are building. That's the magic formula. The problem is that's a multi year approach. You can't fix all your problems in one draft and not every pick will work out. Will fans accept a 3-4 year rebuild through the draft at this point?

I agree FA isn't the answer to all our problems but it does give you a second avenue to improve your roster. I'm not saying we go on a spending spree but to just ignore as we've got our fingers burnt seems a route that makes your life harder (and we have had some FA successes)

1st bold- C'mon man, how many top 10 picks have we had in the last 20 years? There is plenty of reason to believe we will NOT find those guys. There is certainly a development aspect, but you gotta pick ballers man. We simply pick anti-ballers. 

2nd bold- As it should be. We wouldn't be where we are in terms of overall talent if we draft at least average. We are expansion team level talent bad. Which is why when you look of the example of the Lions, who drafted amazingly, it's possible but it's going to take time. 

Let's go back starting at 2008, let's look at some top picks.... sort of see if we have hit ... on anything? In my opinion a top 10 pick should be a multiyear probowler at minimum. 
2008- Rd1 Pick8- Derrick Harvey 
2009- Rd 1 Pick 8- Eugene Monroe
2010- Rd 1 pick 10- Tyson Alualu
2011- Rd 1 pick 10- Blaine Gabbert
2012- Rd 1 pick 5- Justin Blackmon (unfortunate, would of been great)
2013- Rd 1 pick 2- Luke Joeckel 
2014- Rd 1 pick 3- Blake Bortles
2015- Rd 1 pick 3- Dante Fowler
2016- Rd 1 pick 5- Jalen Ramsey
2017- Rd 1 pick 4- Lenny Fournette
2018- Rd 1 pick 29- Taven Bryant
2019- Rd 1 pick 7- JHA
2020- Rd 1 pick 9- CJ Henderson Rd 1 pick 20- Chaisson
2021- Rd 1 pick 1- TLAW Rd 1 pick 25- ETN
2022- RD 1 pick 1- Travon Walker
2023/2024- Anton/BTJ too early to tell, but BTJ looks like an absolute smash

Bolded are elite talents, maybe Tlaw can get there.. let's hope..

All these top 10 picks... anybody even getting into the pride? Was Jalen here long enough to warrant that? I don't think so. These are just the round 1's , the list goes crazy when you include the early round 2 and round 3 picks. We've fundamentally failed at the draft, and that is what needs to change... multiple years of it, to turn this around. Not some spare cap that we get some trash from other teams they don't want to pay for.

I agree with you dude. You said we should build through the draft and I said we've had numerous chances to do that and haven't. You've listed all the examples of us not doing that. We have high enough picks to get high level talent but we have always found a way for it to blow up in our face. You said we should build through the draft and I think everyone agrees but we need to identify why we have years upon years of failed high drafts picks. There's a whole lot of reasons why weve failed but its inexcusable to have the fail rate we do. That's why we've had to use FA as a way to improve the roster. 

This is why we HAVE to get the GM pick right this time.

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1st bold- C'mon man, how many top 10 picks have we had in the last 20 years? There is plenty of reason to believe we will NOT find those guys. There is certainly a development aspect, but you gotta pick ballers man. We simply pick anti-ballers. 

2nd bold- As it should be. We wouldn't be where we are in terms of overall talent if we draft at least average. We are expansion team level talent bad. Which is why when you look of the example of the Lions, who drafted amazingly, it's possible but it's going to take time. 

Let's go back starting at 2008, let's look at some top picks.... sort of see if we have hit ... on anything? In my opinion a top 10 pick should be a multiyear probowler at minimum. 
2008- Rd1 Pick8- Derrick Harvey 
2009- Rd 1 Pick 8- Eugene Monroe
2010- Rd 1 pick 10- Tyson Alualu
2011- Rd 1 pick 10- Blaine Gabbert
2012- Rd 1 pick 5- Justin Blackmon (unfortunate, would of been great)
2013- Rd 1 pick 2- Luke Joeckel 
2014- Rd 1 pick 3- Blake Bortles
2015- Rd 1 pick 3- Dante Fowler
2016- Rd 1 pick 5- Jalen Ramsey
2017- Rd 1 pick 4- Lenny Fournette
2018- Rd 1 pick 29- Taven Bryant
2019- Rd 1 pick 7- JHA
2020- Rd 1 pick 9- CJ Henderson Rd 1 pick 20- Chaisson
2021- Rd 1 pick 1- TLAW Rd 1 pick 25- ETN
2022- RD 1 pick 1- Travon Walker
2023/2024- Anton/BTJ too early to tell, but BTJ looks like an absolute smash

Bolded are elite talents, maybe Tlaw can get there.. let's hope..

All these top 10 picks... anybody even getting into the pride? Was Jalen here long enough to warrant that? I don't think so. These are just the round 1's , the list goes crazy when you include the early round 2 and round 3 picks. We've fundamentally failed at the draft, and that is what needs to change... multiple years of it, to turn this around. Not some spare cap that we get some trash from other teams they don't want to pay for.

I agree with you dude. You said we should build through the draft and I said we've had numerous chances to do that and haven't. You've listed all the examples of us not doing that. We have high enough picks to get high level talent but we have always found a way for it to blow up in our face. You said we should build through the draft and I think everyone agrees but we need to identify why we have years upon years of failed high drafts picks. There's a whole lot of reasons why weve failed but its inexcusable to have the fail rate we do. That's why we've had to use FA as a way to improve the roster. 

This is why we HAVE to get the GM pick right this time.

 
Exactly, and the search should start now … but Shad still hasn’t made a move. Bottom barrel moves, some things just won’t change.

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1st bold- C'mon man, how many top 10 picks have we had in the last 20 years? There is plenty of reason to believe we will NOT find those guys. There is certainly a development aspect, but you gotta pick ballers man. We simply pick anti-ballers. 

2nd bold- As it should be. We wouldn't be where we are in terms of overall talent if we draft at least average. We are expansion team level talent bad. Which is why when you look of the example of the Lions, who drafted amazingly, it's possible but it's going to take time. 

Let's go back starting at 2008, let's look at some top picks.... sort of see if we have hit ... on anything? In my opinion a top 10 pick should be a multiyear probowler at minimum. 
2008- Rd1 Pick8- Derrick Harvey 
2009- Rd 1 Pick 8- Eugene Monroe
2010- Rd 1 pick 10- Tyson Alualu
2011- Rd 1 pick 10- Blaine Gabbert
2012- Rd 1 pick 5- Justin Blackmon (unfortunate, would of been great)
2013- Rd 1 pick 2- Luke Joeckel 
2014- Rd 1 pick 3- Blake Bortles
2015- Rd 1 pick 3- Dante Fowler
2016- Rd 1 pick 5- Jalen Ramsey
2017- Rd 1 pick 4- Lenny Fournette
2018- Rd 1 pick 29- Taven Bryant
2019- Rd 1 pick 7- JHA
2020- Rd 1 pick 9- CJ Henderson Rd 1 pick 20- Chaisson
2021- Rd 1 pick 1- TLAW Rd 1 pick 25- ETN
2022- RD 1 pick 1- Travon Walker
2023/2024- Anton/BTJ too early to tell, but BTJ looks like an absolute smash

Bolded are elite talents, maybe Tlaw can get there.. let's hope..

All these top 10 picks... anybody even getting into the pride? Was Jalen here long enough to warrant that? I don't think so. These are just the round 1's , the list goes crazy when you include the early round 2 and round 3 picks. We've fundamentally failed at the draft, and that is what needs to change... multiple years of it, to turn this around. Not some spare cap that we get some trash from other teams they don't want to pay for.

I agree with you dude. You said we should build through the draft and I said we've had numerous chances to do that and haven't. You've listed all the examples of us not doing that. We have high enough picks to get high level talent but we have always found a way for it to blow up in our face. You said we should build through the draft and I think everyone agrees but we need to identify why we have years upon years of failed high drafts picks. There's a whole lot of reasons why weve failed but its inexcusable to have the fail rate we do. That's why we've had to use FA as a way to improve the roster. 

This is why we HAVE to get the GM pick right this time.

It's because our GMs bigboards have been horrendous since the beginning of time.  There have been very few great drafts for the 30 years of this franchise. We have also had higher draft picks than other franchises on the regular but that hasnt mattered.  Horrendous talent evalutors.

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I agree with you dude. You said we should build through the draft and I said we've had numerous chances to do that and haven't. You've listed all the examples of us not doing that. We have high enough picks to get high level talent but we have always found a way for it to blow up in our face. You said we should build through the draft and I think everyone agrees but we need to identify why we have years upon years of failed high drafts picks. There's a whole lot of reasons why weve failed but its inexcusable to have the fail rate we do. That's why we've had to use FA as a way to improve the roster. 

This is why we HAVE to get the GM pick right this time.

It's because our GMs bigboards have been horrendous since the beginning of time.  There have been very few great drafts for the 30 years of this franchise. We have also had higher draft picks than other franchises on the regular but that hasnt mattered.  Horrendous talent evalutors.

Fully agree, and it’s on the owner for allowing this to continue. Imo.

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Not only should the GM be fired, but the entire scouting staff. Need a whole reset from top to bottom.

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Not only should the GM be fired, but the entire scouting staff.  Need a whole reset from top to bottom.

TBF, we don't know which members of the scouting staff were listened to or not, and even overruled by coaches or FO.

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Sorry, I read the title as time to talk crap instead of cap. Our salary cap space is projected to be 27.4 mil for 2025. Mitch Morse is probably worth keeping at his salary (LESS than Mac Jones). Speaking of which, Mac Jones needs to be released. Armstead needs to be utilized correctly and bring athleticism to the interior DL. Savage and Darby are making too much money with little production, and Duvernay has done nothing that Washington or anyone else couldn't do on the side. Foye is eating the most cap space but he's an essential part of the team, as is Trevor. Cutting Armstead alone before June 1 would save 23.5 mil in dead money/cap space. We have our nucleus of players that we should keep for the next regime/season, but a lot of fat that can be trimmed/replaced. Factor that in with possibly the #1 pick, new stadium, weak division etc..

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I agree with you dude. You said we should build through the draft and I said we've had numerous chances to do that and haven't. You've listed all the examples of us not doing that. We have high enough picks to get high level talent but we have always found a way for it to blow up in our face. You said we should build through the draft and I think everyone agrees but we need to identify why we have years upon years of failed high drafts picks. There's a whole lot of reasons why weve failed but its inexcusable to have the fail rate we do. That's why we've had to use FA as a way to improve the roster. 

This is why we HAVE to get the GM pick right this time.

 
Exactly, and the search should start now … but Shad still hasn’t made a move. Bottom barrel moves, some things just won’t change.

I'm not happy with the silence coming out the building right now. Sends all the wrong messages for me.

The hope (and it's probably misplaced hope) is that these things are being discussed and sorted behind the scenes but we need to have our targets and plans ready to go from Black Monday.

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Sorry,  I read the title as time to talk crap instead of cap.  Our salary cap space is projected to be 27.4 mil for 2025.  Mitch Morse is probably worth keeping at his salary (LESS than Mac Jones).  Speaking of which,  Mac Jones needs to be released.  Armstead needs to be utilized correctly and bring athleticism to the interior DL.  Savage and Darby are making too much money with little production,  and Duvernay has done nothing that Washington or anyone else couldn't do on the side.  Foye is eating the most cap space but he's an essential part of the team,  as is Trevor.  Cutting Armstead alone before June 1 would save 23.5 mil in dead money/cap space.  We have our nucleus of players that we should keep for the next regime/season,  but a lot of fat that can be trimmed/replaced.  Factor that in with possibly the #1 pick,  new stadium,  weak division etc..

Where did you get this information from?

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I agree with you dude. You said we should build through the draft and I said we've had numerous chances to do that and haven't. You've listed all the examples of us not doing that. We have high enough picks to get high level talent but we have always found a way for it to blow up in our face. You said we should build through the draft and I think everyone agrees but we need to identify why we have years upon years of failed high drafts picks. There's a whole lot of reasons why weve failed but its inexcusable to have the fail rate we do. That's why we've had to use FA as a way to improve the roster. 

This is why we HAVE to get the GM pick right this time.

It's because our GMs bigboards have been horrendous since the beginning of time.  There have been very few great drafts for the 30 years of this franchise. We have also had higher draft picks than other franchises on the regular but that hasnt mattered.  Horrendous talent evalutors.

I don't think it's as simple as we've picked bad players. If your picking top 5 it's pretty hard not to find a good player. Don't get me wrong, we've managed to do that but unless they have a devastating injury there's more reasons. 

I don't think we've drafted players that necessarily suit our system or style (hell we've struggled to have a system or style), players have become unhappy or wanted out after rookie deals. We've not had veteran players for these rookies to learn from. 

I look at top teams and there is a standard that rookies have to reach to get to be a starter and then maintain that level with competition. We've not had that competitive roster that demands high levels of performance and that allows players to stop pushing themselves and taking those steps.

I'm sure we have our thoughts on why we've failed on so many picks but I think it's more than bad choices and it's a long standing issue the franchise hasn't solved.

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Looking at cap hits as post June 1st cuts does show some interesting options.

Kirk becomes a $7.8m dead cap hit but a $16.5m cap saving.

Scherff is a $4m dead cap with $9.9m cap saving

Hamilton is $3.5m dead cap and $7.3m cap saving.

It's always difficult looking at post June 1st savings as it's after FA and draft but there is some options there.

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Enjoy the stress free sunday/Monday

lol, you liar.

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You don't think he would give push back about it?

The reports were that part of why he signed he was because he was promised he would be used as a DE.

Plus his contract is ugly. No easy out with the dead money hit and he even hits the cap hard after the contract expires which stinks.

If that report is true, then that's a pretty silly thing to promise an incoming FA.  If you're signing a guy with 28M guaranteed, the only promise you should make is "We'll play you at a position that will best help the team."

We kept our end of the deal. We used him at DE. If he don't wanna play DT, ship him off.

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You don't think he would give push back about it?

The reports were that part of why he signed he was because he was promised he would be used as a DE.

Plus his contract is ugly. No easy out with the dead money hit and he even hits the cap hard after the contract expires which stinks.

On his podcast he said the coaches want him at DE and that he feels better at DT.  Straight from the horses mouth instead of reports

oh that's just dandy.

Fire Nielsen, kick Baalke in the nuts then fire him too. Whatta buncha maroons.

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Is the AFC South still winnable?  What a trash division.

The division that nobody wants. Same as it ever was.

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I agree with you dude. You said we should build through the draft and I said we've had numerous chances to do that and haven't. You've listed all the examples of us not doing that. We have high enough picks to get high level talent but we have always found a way for it to blow up in our face. You said we should build through the draft and I think everyone agrees but we need to identify why we have years upon years of failed high drafts picks. There's a whole lot of reasons why weve failed but its inexcusable to have the fail rate we do. That's why we've had to use FA as a way to improve the roster. 

This is why we HAVE to get the GM pick right this time.

 
Exactly, and the search should start now … but Shad still hasn’t made a move. Bottom barrel moves, some things just won’t change.

you don't know that the search hasn't already started.

The only thing we know is that the firing has not yet happened. Full dang stop.

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https://twitter.com/jordandelugo/status/...3470462032

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Had a good lol at this one..

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Looking at cap hits as post June 1st cuts does show some interesting options.

Kirk becomes a $7.8m dead cap hit but a $16.5m cap saving.

Scherff is a $4m dead cap with $9.9m cap saving

Hamilton is $3.5m dead cap and $7.3m cap saving.

It's always difficult looking at post June 1st savings as it's after FA and draft but there is some options there.

These are all interesting options as you say. Of these 3 players, I'd let go of Scherff first as his best days are way in the past. I'd keep Hamilton since his play has improved as of late and he can still remain part of the rotation at DT. Kirk is a tough decision since, when healthy, he is a very effective receiver whom Lawrence trusts. I'd keep him one more season and release him in 2026 to be replaced by Parker Washington. This team has too many needs to add receiver to the list in 2025. A group of Thomas, Kirk, Washington and Engram (plays like a WR) would be more than adequate in 2025. They are likely stuck with Gabe Davis for another season, but expectations for him are very low. The decision to replace Ridley for Davis was another horrible one by Baalke. Ridley has caught 29 passes the past 5 weeks averaging about 16 YPC. Not saying I would have paid him what the Titans did, but he may have remained in Jax. if offered more by the Jaguars.

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Looking at cap hits as post June 1st cuts does show some interesting options.

Kirk becomes a $7.8m dead cap hit but a $16.5m cap saving.

Scherff is a $4m dead cap with $9.9m cap saving

Hamilton is $3.5m dead cap and $7.3m cap saving.

It's always difficult looking at post June 1st savings as it's after FA and draft but there is some options there.

Scherrf is a FA at the end of the season

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It's because our GMs bigboards have been horrendous since the beginning of time.  There have been very few great drafts for the 30 years of this franchise. We have also had higher draft picks than other franchises on the regular but that hasnt mattered.  Horrendous talent evalutors.

Fully agree, and it’s on the owner for allowing this to continue. Imo.

Maybe he wont allow it to continue.  We will find out by black Monday.

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It's because our GMs bigboards have been horrendous since the beginning of time.  There have been very few great drafts for the 30 years of this franchise. We have also had higher draft picks than other franchises on the regular but that hasnt mattered.  Horrendous talent evalutors.

I don't think it's as simple as we've picked bad players. If your picking top 5 it's pretty hard not to find a good player. Don't get me wrong, we've managed to do that but unless they have a devastating injury there's more reasons. 

I don't think we've drafted players that necessarily suit our system or style (hell we've struggled to have a system or style), players have become unhappy or wanted out after rookie deals. We've not had veteran players for these rookies to learn from. 

I look at top teams and there is a standard that rookies have to reach to get to be a starter and then maintain that level with competition. We've not had that competitive roster that demands high levels of performance and that allows players to stop pushing themselves and taking those steps.

I'm sure we have our thoughts on why we've failed on so many picks but I think it's more than bad choices and it's a long standing issue the franchise hasn't solved.

I never said we picked bad players.  You cant compete and bey good just not picking bad players, thats not good enough. To compete with the best and win a championship you have to pick the best players available and pick great players.  We havent dont that.  You can look at almost every pick on every draft and we passed on great players all around us in the early rounds.  Then in the mid to late rounds we have very few hits compared to all the good teams in the league. 

 What mid to late round picks has Baalke hit on?  Dave Caldwell had 2 I can think of in Linder and Tevin Smith.   You cant win like that.  How many All Pros have we drafted in the last 15 years?  1.  Some teams have more than that in 1 draft.  The biggest problem has been our drafts,  talent evaluations, and the guys making the picks.

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I don't think it's as simple as we've picked bad players. If your picking top 5 it's pretty hard not to find a good player. Don't get me wrong, we've managed to do that but unless they have a devastating injury there's more reasons. 

I don't think we've drafted players that necessarily suit our system or style (hell we've struggled to have a system or style), players have become unhappy or wanted out after rookie deals. We've not had veteran players for these rookies to learn from. 

I look at top teams and there is a standard that rookies have to reach to get to be a starter and then maintain that level with competition. We've not had that competitive roster that demands high levels of performance and that allows players to stop pushing themselves and taking those steps.

I'm sure we have our thoughts on why we've failed on so many picks but I think it's more than bad choices and it's a long standing issue the franchise hasn't solved.

I never said we picked bad players.  You cant compete and bey good just not picking bad players, thats not good enough. To compete with the best and win a championship you have to pick the best players available and pick great players.  We havent dont that.  You can look at almost every pick on every draft and we passed on great players all around us in the early rounds.  Then in the mid to late rounds we have very few hits compared to all the good teams in the league. 

 What mid to late round picks has Baalke hit on?  Dave Caldwell had 2 I can think of in Linder and Tevin Smith.   You cant win like that.  How many All Pros have we drafted in the last 15 years?  1.  Some teams have more than that in 1 draft.  The biggest problem has been our drafts,  talent evaluations, and the guys making the picks.

I completely agree with you here. Hindsight can be 20/20 with 1st round picks and plenty of 'can't miss' prospects have failed. 

The later round picks is completely right. Getting quality depth or starters in the 3rd/4th is a real key and you see the top teams find players that can do that. We've struggled badly and have mostly wasted those picks and it's even more frustrating when we keep loading up on 5th/6th/7th round picks that are basically a waste.

Completely agree with the biggest problems you state. We need that GM and HC to have the same ideas and styles and draft to fit that style. I think we'd all happily give them time if they were building towards something.

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Baalke generally doesn't pick bad players, he overdrafts positions of low value (RB, TE, LB) and he takes players who have high ceilings but need years to develop their potential (Walker, Smith).

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Doug announced changes that he's keeping "in house" and not sharing publicly during his presser. Wonder what it could be!?

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