Part of the reason Lawrence regressed was due to bad personnel decisions from the front office and the lack of ability and/or foresight to address the areas of needs that needed to be addressed in order for him to succeed.

Bad organizations ruin good talent. Good organizations elevate good talent. It's not that hard to figure out really. Trevor regressed to some extent. I personally believe it's a carry-over effect from multiple injuries stacking up since the team's demise in 2023 when they started off 8 - 3 and then his ankle was stepped on (could go back earlier to his knee injury with the brace being added).

He's taken as an [BLEEP] beating here the past two years. It'll start to weigh you down at some point. Happened to Mayfield in Cleveland. This team is an identity on offense and defense. It's never had that outside of Lawrence playing hero ball. You have a chance now to build your offense around Brian Thomas Jr. Any coach worth his salt can figure this out within a year or two.

We need a few upgrades along the offensive line. A better play caller and honestly another weapon at WR. I am going to keep saying it until the draft. This team would be better off drafting McMillan out of Arizona in the long run while fixing up the offensive line in RD3 - RD4 this year.

Great receivers don't win ball games when your QB is on IR. Fix the line, run the ball, protect the QB, and you'll win ball games. End of message.

This ^^^.  You've signed Trevor to a top level contract, now you HAVE to protect him.  Lawrence having two concussions in two years points to the fact that pass protection is critical.  Pull out those FA dollars to find significant upgrades, and back them up with high level draft picks.  Drafting OLmen isn't as entertaining as drafting a shiny new gem but it there is no doubt that it will payoff in future years, and I keep seeing people defend a top 25 line as 'good enough'.

This should be the Jaguars mantra:

"I know the question is going to come up, 'What about a weapon?' Offensive linemen, we look at as weapons," Harbaugh said. "That group, when we talk about attacking on offense, the offensive line is the tip of the spear."

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

Has no one considered the HCs Trevor has had since Day One? He came in to the stinking pile of manure that was Urban Meyer Decay. Then he had to deal with whoever the interim coach was after Decay got fired. Then he caught a break in 2022 with one good year under Pederson before the bottom fell out.

Of course the guy has regressed. The carousel of HC and coordinators alone is enough to be an issue. Add in the lack of protection from the front line, [BLEEP] selections in the drafts and FA, not to mention sports media reigning down hate and discontent.... that will do a mental number on anyone and whatever affects you mentally affects everything else. 

Can he recover with this team and better personnel? It remains to be seen.

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Our QB regressed because our coaches became lazy and thought they could rest on their laurels. 

Goff was a bust, look at him now.  Same with Bryce Young.  Same with Sam Darnold.  You get a coaching staff that has no real plan, you get what we get here.  And it's a soft team that has no real direction. 

This HC and his lackey OC killed Lawrence.  They had no idea how to best use his talent.  And so Lawrence had to play hero ball to try and keep us competitive.  You watch enough other NFL teams that do it the right way, you see how bad this coaching staff has messed up the potential of all our players.

As an example, BTJ was always a great WR.  We never used him until after Lawrence was injured.  This is a trash organization from the top to the bottom.  The players have always been here.  But we never get a HC that knows how to manage the talent we have. 

Searcy is a defensive minded dude that has no idea what happens on offense.  The fact that you are trying to say that his analysis is the one to understand our failures is not very credible.

Maybe it was because the coaches were lazy but  Trevor regressed. It can be seen for example in the fact that he never built any chemistry with BTJ, something Mac managed well. Don't blame that on the coaches. Likewise the drops reduced considerably when Mac took over. 


Mac isn't any good as a starter but people complained endlessly. We all know it's because if he had played well then that would have been an indictment of Trevor. 

All we know now is that Trevor is better than Mac Jones. That's some achievement, isn't it? 

This will be part of the HC process. The new HC must work with Baalke AND Trevor.

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Great receivers don't win ball games when your QB is on IR. Fix the line, run the ball, protect the QB, and you'll win ball games. End of message.

This ^^^.  You've signed Trevor to a top level contract, now you HAVE to protect him.  Lawrence having two concussions in two years points to the fact that pass protection is critical.  Pull out those FA dollars to find significant upgrades, and back them up with high level draft picks.  Drafting OLmen isn't as entertaining as drafting a shiny new gem but it there is no doubt that it will payoff in future years, and I keep seeing people defend a top 25 line as 'good enough'.

This should be the Jaguars mantra:

"I know the question is going to come up, 'What about a weapon?' Offensive linemen, we look at as weapons," Harbaugh said. "That group, when we talk about attacking on offense, the offensive line is the tip of the spear."

One of them had little to do with pass protection.  One was on a cheap, dirty, hit from a LB on…um…an AFC south rival.

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Not listening to 2 hours of talk about this train wreck of a team, but TL did regress. His accuracy is dog [BLEEP] and his decision making and ability to see the field is subpar

Most dont want to hear it, but its true. Hopefully Ben can fix him.

Yea that's what happens when you have a trash OL and subpar WRs year after year (sans a rookie BTJr)

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Our QB regressed because our coaches became lazy and thought they could rest on their laurels. 

Goff was a bust, look at him now.  Same with Bryce Young.  Same with Sam Darnold.  You get a coaching staff that has no real plan, you get what we get here.  And it's a soft team that has no real direction. 

This HC and his lackey OC killed Lawrence.  They had no idea how to best use his talent.  And so Lawrence had to play hero ball to try and keep us competitive.  You watch enough other NFL teams that do it the right way, you see how bad this coaching staff has messed up the potential of all our players.

As an example, BTJ was always a great WR.  We never used him until after Lawrence was injured.  This is a trash organization from the top to the bottom.  The players have always been here.  But we never get a HC that knows how to manage the talent we have. 

Searcy is a defensive minded dude that has no idea what happens on offense.  The fact that you are trying to say that his analysis is the one to understand our failures is not very credible.

Maybe it was because the coaches were lazy but  Trevor regressed. It can be seen for example in the fact that he never built any chemistry with BTJ, something Mac managed well. Don't blame that on the coaches. Likewise the drops reduced considerably when Mac took over. 


Mac isn't any good as a starter but people complained endlessly. We all know it's because if he had played well then that would have been an indictment of Trevor. 

All we know now is that Trevor is better than Mac Jones. That's some achievement, isn't it? 

This will be part of the HC process. The new HC must work with Baalke AND Trevor.

The drops reduced when 0, 13, and 17 were no longer on the field.

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It seems to me from going over this thread that there are 2 main groups of thinkers.

1. Some blame the team, the coaches, the talent and other factors on why Lawrence has struggled.

2. Some blame the QB himself. It is his job to make those hard throws, to read the field properly, to not miss players so bad announcers on live television are calling you out, it's on the 6 figure QB job to create the game winning plays when they are on the line.

Lawrence finished this year throwing 60% completion percentage about 200 yards a game with 11 TD's and 7ints. That is not good for 80's NFL football let alone today's modern NFL. The Good QB's create plays and make average teams better just because they are the leaders on the field. Lawrence is not even a top 10 QB in the NFL in most people's minds. Let us hope he becomes that guy because with that contract we are stuck with him.

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Doug failed because both his DC sucked. The most recent beating out his predecessor. Arguably the worst defense in football.

The offense was broken. Trevor underperformed.

Yup.

But the DEFENSE has been bad.

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The Other Jag Forum: Duval Football Fans.

Brandon Scherff is no longer that dude.   Next season I want him gone.

Great receivers don't win ball games when your QB is on IR. Fix the line, run the ball, protect the QB, and you'll win ball games. End of message.

You're not drafting a Center or Right Guard with the 5th overall selection. Mason Graham is not the second coming of Aaron Donald. I am taking McMillan with the 5th overall selection and figuring everything else out between free agency in March and the nine other draft picks I have in this class.

Having two dominate WR's bodes well for any team. If the value is there, which it will be, you don't pass up on that. We have Lightning in Brian Thomas Jr. We now need Thunder. McMillan provides said Thunder.

That may be true about available talent at the top of the draft.  I've just started watching college highlights and started with Tet and don't have a strong basis for opinion yet.  I will say that Tet's highlight reel that I watched showed him having good success a lot of times against very poor and slow coverage.  I get he's a big and fast body which always has value in the passing game, but I need to see more and I will eventually get around to watching more of him and others.  If you're correct about the other talent projected to go around our pick, then at this moment I'd prefer a trade back if possible and a focus be given to the lines which was the issue everyone had concerns about for the past 2 years.

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Great receivers don't win ball games when your QB is on IR. Fix the line, run the ball, protect the QB, and you'll win ball games. End of message.

This ^^^.  You've signed Trevor to a top level contract, now you HAVE to protect him.  Lawrence having two concussions in two years points to the fact that pass protection is critical.  Pull out those FA dollars to find significant upgrades, and back them up with high level draft picks.  Drafting OLmen isn't as entertaining as drafting a shiny new gem but it there is no doubt that it will payoff in future years, and I keep seeing people defend a top 25 line as 'good enough'.

This should be the Jaguars mantra:

"I know the question is going to come up, 'What about a weapon?' Offensive linemen, we look at as weapons," Harbaugh said. "That group, when we talk about attacking on offense, the offensive line is the tip of the spear."

This this this this. 

Said it in the college thread about draft position, I’m sick and tired of having a trash Oline. I want to see us start bullying teams on there, that breeds confidence. 

I’d be more than happy us trading back and focusing on the interior line.

I quite like Parker Washington and having Christian Kirk back (keeping him healthy is a big ask) should be enough company for BTJ when you add in the improved run game an Oline should give us, which may actually make teams bite on a play action (seriously when was the last time that happened?)

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Great receivers don't win ball games when your QB is on IR. Fix the line, run the ball, protect the QB, and you'll win ball games. End of message.

Mason Graham is not the second coming of Aaron Donald. I am taking McMillan with the 5th overall selection and figuring everything else out between free agency in March and the nine other draft picks I have in this class.

And McMillan isn’t the second coming of Julio Jones, so why are we taking him number 5? (Just using your counter to Graham)

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This ^^^.  You've signed Trevor to a top level contract, now you HAVE to protect him.  Lawrence having two concussions in two years points to the fact that pass protection is critical.  Pull out those FA dollars to find significant upgrades, and back them up with high level draft picks.  Drafting OLmen isn't as entertaining as drafting a shiny new gem but it there is no doubt that it will payoff in future years, and I keep seeing people defend a top 25 line as 'good enough'.

This should be the Jaguars mantra:

"I know the question is going to come up, 'What about a weapon?' Offensive linemen, we look at as weapons," Harbaugh said. "That group, when we talk about attacking on offense, the offensive line is the tip of the spear."

This this this this. 

Said it in the college thread about draft position, I’m sick and tired of having a trash Oline. I want to see us start bullying teams on there, that breeds confidence. 

I’d be more than happy us trading back and focusing on the interior line.

I quite like Parker Washington and having Christian Kirk back (keeping him healthy is a big ask) should be enough company for BTJ when you add in the improved run game an Oline should give us, which may actually make teams bite on a play action (seriously when was the last time that happened?)

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Mason Graham is not the second coming of Aaron Donald. I am taking McMillan with the 5th overall selection and figuring everything else out between free agency in March and the nine other draft picks I have in this class.

And McMillan isn’t the second coming of Julio Jones, so why are we taking him number 5? (Just using your counter to Graham)

McMillan put up good numbers over the past two years, this is with Arizona moving up into a more difficult conference this past year. I think when you look at his ability to track, his hands, his leaping ability and overall size? He's Mike Evans and A.J Green.

I just don't get this same sense with Mason Graham. He's not a Baalke guy anyway. Already cited it earlier today. One of Graham's knocks is his short arms. He doesn't have adequate length and Baalke is a size queen. This automatically makes him a no go on Baalke's draft board.

If I am taking a DT inside the top five? He has to be the second coming of Aaron Donald, it's not enough that you occupy space or eat up double teams, you have to have the ability to actually disrupt, penetrate, hurt the QB in the pocket. Graham is a shade behind in that regard. 

Again, he's not Aaron Donald. He's not Suh. He's not McCoy. Give me a good CB or WR with the 5th pick. Let me double dip at RG and OC in RD3. I would be looking at S in RD2. 

If you want a good DT that can make waves and disrupt, say, like that Allen kid up in Denver? Give me Notre Dames Mills. Give me Cincinatti's Corleone. We can get them much later in the draft to pair up with Maason Smith, Armstead (Who went on record today saying he's a DT in 2025), DaVon Hamilton now 2 full years removed from his injury and Jordan Jefferson, a 4th RD investment.

You really want to roll out into 2025 at WR with just BTJ to rely on? Kirk hasn't finished a full season for the second year in a row. Davis couldn't find himself in this offense last year and also couldn't finish the season out. We're putting the rest of our eggs in Washington's basket?

Just not enough on paper for me to believe this offense rebounds fast in 2025...

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

This this this this. 

Said it in the college thread about draft position, I’m sick and tired of having a trash Oline. I want to see us start bullying teams on there, that breeds confidence. 

I’d be more than happy us trading back and focusing on the interior line.

I quite like Parker Washington and having Christian Kirk back (keeping him healthy is a big ask) should be enough company for BTJ when you add in the improved run game an Oline should give us, which may actually make teams bite on a play action (seriously when was the last time that happened?)

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And McMillan isn’t the second coming of Julio Jones, so why are we taking him number 5? (Just using your counter to Graham)

McMillan put up good numbers over the past two years, this is with Arizona moving up into a more difficult conference this past year. I think when you look at his ability to track, his hands, his leaping ability and overall size? He's Mike Evans and A.J Green.

I just don't get this same sense with Mason Graham. He's not a Baalke guy anyway. Already cited it earlier today. One of Graham's knocks is his short arms. He doesn't have adequate length and Baalke is a size queen. This automatically makes him a no go on Baalke's draft board.

If I am taking a DT inside the top five? He has to be the second coming of Aaron Donald, it's not enough that you occupy space or eat up double teams, you have to have the ability to actually disrupt, penetrate, hurt the QB in the pocket. Graham is a shade behind in that regard. 

Again, he's not Aaron Donald. He's not Suh. He's not McCoy. Give me a good CB or WR with the 5th pick. Let me double dip at RG and OC in RD3. I would be looking at S in RD2. 

If you want a good DT that can make waves and disrupt, say, like that Allen kid up in Denver? Give me Notre Dames Mills. Give me Cincinatti's Corleone. We can get them much later in the draft to pair up with Maason Smith, Armstead (Who went on record today saying he's a DT in 2025), DaVon Hamilton now 2 full years removed from his injury and Jordan Jefferson, a 4th RD investment.

You really want to roll out into 2025 at WR with just BTJ to rely on? Kirk hasn't finished a full season for the second year in a row. Davis couldn't find himself in this offense last year and also couldn't finish the season out. We're putting the rest of our eggs in Washington's basket?

Just not enough on paper for me to believe this offense rebounds fast in 2025...

All valid arguments for WR at some point in the draft, perhaps even at 5.

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Hey look another dumb Trevor thread from the guy who said Mac Jones is "His QB" LOLOLOLOL

And claims that he doesn’t start multiple threads about attacking the same player there’s a thread for already.

I never understood this weird thing where everything needed to be under one thread. So many things get lost in the massive 50-100 page threads.

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McMillan put up good numbers over the past two years, this is with Arizona moving up into a more difficult conference this past year. I think when you look at his ability to track, his hands, his leaping ability and overall size? He's Mike Evans and A.J Green.

I just don't get this same sense with Mason Graham. He's not a Baalke guy anyway. Already cited it earlier today. One of Graham's knocks is his short arms. He doesn't have adequate length and Baalke is a size queen. This automatically makes him a no go on Baalke's draft board.

If I am taking a DT inside the top five? He has to be the second coming of Aaron Donald, it's not enough that you occupy space or eat up double teams, you have to have the ability to actually disrupt, penetrate, hurt the QB in the pocket. Graham is a shade behind in that regard. 

Again, he's not Aaron Donald. He's not Suh. He's not McCoy. Give me a good CB or WR with the 5th pick. Let me double dip at RG and OC in RD3. I would be looking at S in RD2. 

If you want a good DT that can make waves and disrupt, say, like that Allen kid up in Denver? Give me Notre Dames Mills. Give me Cincinatti's Corleone. We can get them much later in the draft to pair up with Maason Smith, Armstead (Who went on record today saying he's a DT in 2025), DaVon Hamilton now 2 full years removed from his injury and Jordan Jefferson, a 4th RD investment.

You really want to roll out into 2025 at WR with just BTJ to rely on? Kirk hasn't finished a full season for the second year in a row. Davis couldn't find himself in this offense last year and also couldn't finish the season out. We're putting the rest of our eggs in Washington's basket?

Just not enough on paper for me to believe this offense rebounds fast in 2025...

All valid arguments for WR at some point in the draft, perhaps even at 5.

If Baalke convinces Coen to come up from Tampa Bay or Joe Brady to come down from Buffalo? I 100% want another dynamic WR for this offense. Coen and Brady can cook some [BLEEP] up. I also feel confident that this draft is at least 5 rounds deep to snag offensive lineman. 

There's a lot of guys coming out from this class that can play multiple positions. Jack Nelson and Jonah Monheim to name a few. Who should test relatively well at the combine. WR is an interesting class. Outside of McMillan there's not really another tall, productive receiver that I like. Higgins out of Iowa St. is about it.

I like Restrepo and Harris out of Ole' Miss as well. RD2 is where I think we'll have a tough decision to make. Do you go for Tate Ratledge at Guard there? Or, do you say [BLEEP] it and get a little more splashy with a guy like Xavier Watts at safety? Or Mike Green at DE out of Marshall?

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

All valid arguments for WR at some point in the draft, perhaps even at 5.

If Baalke convinces Coen to come up from Tampa Bay or Joe Brady to come down from Buffalo? I 100% want another dynamic WR for this offense. Coen and Brady can cook some [BLEEP] up. I also feel confident that this draft is at least 5 rounds deep to snag offensive lineman. 

There's a lot of guys coming out from this class that can play multiple positions. Jack Nelson and Jonah Monheim to name a few. Who should test relatively well at the combine. WR is an interesting class. Outside of McMillan there's not really another tall, productive receiver that I like. Higgins out of Iowa St. is about it.

I like Restrepo and Harris out of Ole' Miss as well. RD2 is where I think we'll have a tough decision to make. Do you go for Tate Ratledge at Guard there? Or, do you say [BLEEP] it and get a little more splashy with a guy like Xavier Watts at safety? Or Mike Green at DE out of Marshall?

Use every pick on o-line at this point. We have to protect Trevor.

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This is a great listen from some experts.

https://www.youtube.com/live/CsmI5EYiHyU...vq8FQShe8K

This is BS. Trevor didn’t regress. The offensive system didn’t evolve. And the damn O line is putrid dog trash! Trevor’s been hurt for two years due to that horrible line and the play caller’s inability to to call situational football


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Fix the O-Line!

This is a great listen from some experts.

https://www.youtube.com/live/CsmI5EYiHyU...vq8FQShe8K

This is BS. Trevor didn’t regress. The offensive system didn’t evolve. And the damn O line is putrid dog trash! Trevor’s been hurt for two years due to that horrible line and the play caller’s inability to to call situational football


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Khan himself said the offense felt predictable at times. A lot of that falls on the front office just as much as it does on the coaching staff. I think what got Pederson fired, if true, was once again the loyalty to his offensive coaching staff with play calling duties.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

This is such a tired topic, in my opinion.

Yeah, Doug clearly decided he wanted to no longer run the offense and he passed that off to his boy. And we all saw how terrible that was, even when we were going 8-3 last year. Additionally, Doug threw his DC under the bus for Neilsen, who was even worse. It was obvious the offense was regressing in 2023. I kept telling folks, and they just ignored it. It was obvious that Doug no longer really wanted to be a HC the way they have in Detriot, Minnesota, LA, Pittsburg, KC, Miami, heck even Philly has a coach that is at least passionate.

The O-Line is bad, but a good HC and a decent OC could have still made this offense look respectable. Not to mention the fact that they could never get Ridley on the right page with what the offense was doing. Not to mention the fact that it took 10 games before Doug and his boy realized that maybe they should give more attention to BTJ. The coaching staff was bad.

But dog gone it, the players Doug got and had to deal with were also sub-par!!!! This was a total complete failure by the GM and the HC!!!! I never defended Baalke, but I put too much hope in Doug. At the end of the day, it was a complete disaster because of the way the franchise is run. The recruiting is bad. The coaching was bad. And we only cut off the tail.

I grew up in NM. There is a certain lizard that lives in the desert. You can catch the lizard by it's tail, and the lizard will willingly let you grab it's tail. So you get the tail, while the lizard runs away. We caught the tail... But we didn't take out the entire lizard. Baalke is about to grow another tail. And the perpetual failure will continue.

Baalke isn't a clown. Baalke is a desert lizard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPoFot82h3Y

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This is BS. Trevor didn’t regress. The offensive system didn’t evolve. And the damn O line is putrid dog trash! Trevor’s been hurt for two years due to that horrible line and the play caller’s inability to to call situational football


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Khan himself said the offense felt predictable at times. A lot of that falls on the front office just as much as it does on the coaching staff. I think what got Pederson fired, if true, was once again the loyalty to his offensive coaching staff with play cal

Lol, with the zoom call you couldn't see Baalke's hand up Khan's butt like the puppeteer he is, making him mouth the words he wanted him to say.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Khan himself said the offense felt predictable at times. A lot of that falls on the front office just as much as it does on the coaching staff. I think what got Pederson fired, if true, was once again the loyalty to his offensive coaching staff with play cal

Lol, with the zoom call you couldn't see Baalke's hand up Khan's butt like the puppeteer he is, making him mouth the words he wanted him to say.

Dude, exactly.

Baalke wrote down the talking points for Shad.  The responses Khan made often seemed like a hostage tape.  We are in so much [BLEEP] trouble...

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