Maybe I'm just going by my gut but just think it would be a huge mistake to pass up either Williams or Cooper if we don't trade back. I like the idea of Fowler, but again, i don't think he's the prospect Williams is.

My comment was more to the conversation of Beasley being a LEO. However I don't think the Titans will pass over Williams so I think the idea of us picking will is moot. If the Titans were drafting Mariota it would be their pick already at 2 just like Washington had RGIII as their pick at 2. To me they can't trade back because they have already played their hand as they have already said they will stay with Mettenberger.

 

We will either get the trade or take the next best player. In my opinion, that would be either Fowler, Beasley, Cooper, or White. All of them could go at 3 and I'd fine. Beasley would be my last choice because of the reasons I stated but I still think he would be a great player. 

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My comment was more to the conversation of Beasley being a LEO. However I don't think the Titans will pass over Williams so I think the idea of us picking will is moot. If the Titans were drafting Mariota it would be their pick already at 2 just like Washington had RGIII as their pick at 2. To me they can't trade back because they have already played their hand as they have already said they will stay with Mettenberger.

 

We will either get the trade or take the next best player. In my opinion, that would be either Fowler, Beasley, Cooper, or White. All of them could go at 3 and I'd fine. Beasley would be my last choice because of the reasons I stated but I still think he would be a great player. 

I think the Mariota at 2 talk is teams trading up to two to get him hypothetically. Lets say Mariota does go 2 and we miss out on a trade back scenario. Heres how id rate the prospects if Winston 1 and Mariota 2. 

 

1. Leonard Williams 

 

2. Amari Cooper 

 

3. Dante Fowler 

 

4. Kevin White 

 

5. Vic Beasley 

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Beasley was never shear fire prospect. Sure, he's going top 10 and probably would of been top 10 last year, but he never was the prospect Leonard Williams is, and most mocks don't even have him going top 5 this year. 

What makes Leonard Williams a more sure fire prospect than Beasley? Of the two, the most glaring hole in both profiles is Williams lack of pass rush prowess. Also, I'm not saying Williams is a bad pick. He is part of the 4 man second tier of ok picks (along with White, Fowler, and Cooper)...he's just not as good of a pick as Beasley. 

 

Beasley is the all time ACC sack leader for y'all production fiends. He has shown more than enough ability to win a pass rush in every way, and he showed off the charts athleticism even when weighing in at 246 lbs. He is both as safe as anyone and has as much upside as anyone at the same time. 

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What makes Leonard Williams a more sure fire prospect than Beasley? Of the two, the most glaring hole in both profiles is Williams lack of pass rush prowess. Also, I'm not saying Williams is a bad pick. He is part of the 4 man second tier of ok picks (along with White, Fowler, and Cooper)...he's just not as good of a pick as Beasley. 

 

Beasley is the all time ACC sack leader for y'all production fiends. He has shown more than enough ability to win a pass rush in every way, and he showed off the charts athleticism even when weighing in at 246 lbs. He is both as safe as anyone and has as much upside as anyone at the same time. 

Your basing your assumption on Beasley on a bigger need for the Jaguars than what Leonard Williams is if the jags pick him. Yes, Beasley is a better LEO fit for the Jags, but that does not make him a better prospect than Leonard Williams. It has been widely speculated that Leonard is not only the best defensive player in this draft, but the overall best prospect in this draft. 

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Your basing your assumption on Beasley on a bigger need for the Jaguars than what Leonard Williams is if the jags pick him. Yes, Beasley is a better LEO fit for the Jags, but that does not make him a better prospect than Leonard Williams. It has been widely speculated that Leonard is not only the best defensive player in this draft, but the overall best prospect in this draft. 

No, I'm comparing them simply as prospects. It certainly helps that Beasley fits the Jags needs much more than Williams, but I also just think Beasley is the flat out better player. 

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No, I'm comparing them simply as prospects. It certainly helps that Beasley fits the Jags needs much more than Williams, but I also just think Beasley is the flat out better player. 

I cant even........i guess your entitled to your opinion, but scouts, analysts across the nation have been raving about Leonard Williams as the best overall player in the nation this year. If he is there at 3, Jags have to seriously consider their options with a talent like Williams. Who at his size, can rush the passer, stop the run, and has very good speed for being a supposed big man. He's about as sure fire as you can get and you can play him anywhere. I guess we can agree to disagree. 

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I think the Mariota at 2 talk is teams trading up to two to get him hypothetically. Lets say Mariota does go 2 and we miss out on a trade back scenario. Heres how id rate the prospects if Winston 1 and Mariota 2. 

 

1. Leonard Williams 

 

2. Amari Cooper 

 

3. Dante Fowler 

 

4. Kevin White 

 

5. Vic Beasley 

The reason I don't see that happening is either the titans take Mariota or they don't and take Williams. They are the only team who needs a qb in the top 5 and basically aren't selling the fact that they want him. When teams know you don't want a prospect they play that against you i.e Reggie Williams versus Big Ben draft. Titans will be forced to draft a player they don't want or take all those lowball offers everyone is throwing around. The bidding won't truly start to it gets to us because their is no forcing us to draft a specific player. 

 

Clearly this is all speculation on my behalf but this is how I see i playing out. 

 

All of this players seem to me to fit at 3 honestly if Williams isn't there. If he is there then i would want us to take him but I honesty don't see the titans passing on him. They haven't traded the pick yet and they aren't selling Mariota as his pick. When RGIII got drafted that Rams-Redskins trade was done days before the draft. I don't think the titans want to pass up on him as a prospect TBH. 

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The reason I don't see that happening is either the titans take Mariota or they don't and take Williams. They are the only team who needs a qb in the top 5 and basically aren't selling the fact that they want him. When teams know you don't want a prospect they play that against you i.e Reggie Williams versus Big Ben draft. Titans will be forced to draft a player they don't want or take all those lowball offers everyone is throwing around. The bidding won't truly start to it gets to us because their is no forcing us to draft a specific player. 

 

Clearly this is all speculation on my behalf but this is how I see i playing out. 

 

All of this players seem to me to fit at 3 honestly if Williams isn't there. If he is there then i would want us to take him but I honesty don't see the titans passing on him. They haven't traded the pick yet and they aren't selling Mariota as his pick. When RGIII got drafted that Rams-Redskins trade was done days before the draft. I don't think the titans want to pass up on him as a prospect TBH. 

You're reading a bit too much into it LOL in my opinion. We don't know what these teams will do other than Tampa, with the 99 percent chance they are taking Winston. I think if the Titans think Mariota is a franchise QB, they should take him, if they get a sweet deal from now until the draft, they may take that and move down. Who knows, maybe they do take Williams. I don't think the Titans are blowing any smoke right now, its all speculation. 

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You're reading a bit too much into it LOL in my opinion. We don't know what these teams will do other than Tampa, with the 99 percent chance they are taking Winston. I think if the Titans think Mariota is a franchise QB, they should take him, if they get a sweet deal from now until the draft, they may take that and move down. Who knows, maybe they do take Williams. I don't think the Titans are blowing any smoke right now, its all speculation. 

My point exactly. They aren't blowing any smoke. They aren't hyping up Mariota or anything. They are just there. To me they are looking to add they best talent they can in Williams. 

 

Sometime we don't want rivals to do good so much we expect them to automatically do something dumb. I'm almost 99% sure we will be facing Williams for the next 10 years.

 

You don't trade away a franchise qb if you think he is one.... especially if need one. The new regime over there has time to acquire top talent for at least 2 years before they have to start taking qbs high. 

 

I don't even think I heard them being vocal about trading the pick lol. I would be absolutely floored if they pass on Williams. 

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I cant even........i guess your entitled to your opinion, but scouts, analysts across the nation have been raving about Leonard Williams as the best overall player in the nation this year. If he is there at 3, Jags have to seriously consider their options with a talent like Williams. Who at his size, can rush the passer, stop the run, and has very good speed for being a supposed big man. He's about as sure fire as you can get and you can play him anywhere. I guess we can agree to disagree. 

I just think Von MIller is a better player than Odrick, who are my two comps for Beasley and Williams. The fact that we have Odrick and desperately need a Miller helps, too. 

 

I think if you watched Williams closely you would see that he struggles rushing the passer a lot more than you think. 

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My point exactly. They aren't blowing any smoke. They aren't hyping up Mariota or anything. They are just there. To me they are looking to add they best talent they can in Williams.


Sometime we don't want rivals to do good so much we expect them to automatically do something dumb. I'm almost 99% sure we will be facing Williams for the next 10 years.


You don't trade away a franchise qb if you think he is one.... especially if need one. The new regime over there has time to acquire top talent for at least 2 years before they have to start taking qbs high.


I don't even think I heard them being vocal about trading the pick lol. I would be absolutely floored if they pass on Williams.

I would be floored if they pass up the nice trade offer and take Williams.

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I just think Von MIller is a better player than Odrick, who are my two comps for Beasley and Williams. The fact that we have Odrick and desperately need a Miller helps, too. 

 

I think if you watched Williams closely you would see that he struggles rushing the passer a lot more than you think. 

I don't like the comparison of Odrick to Williams, yes they both play the same position and ideally would fit into that LDE spot. But Williams has crazy speed for a guy his size. He can rush the passer, Odrick....not so much. Williams is a guy you can play all over the place. He really is a special talent. 

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My point exactly. They aren't blowing any smoke. They aren't hyping up Mariota or anything. They are just there. To me they are looking to add they best talent they can in Williams. 

 

Sometime we don't want rivals to do good so much we expect them to automatically do something dumb. I'm almost 99% sure we will be facing Williams for the next 10 years.

 

You don't trade away a franchise qb if you think he is one.... especially if need one. The new regime over there has time to acquire top talent for at least 2 years before they have to start taking qbs high. 

 

I don't even think I heard them being vocal about trading the pick lol. I would be absolutely floored if they pass on Williams. 

Good point, and probably, they take Williams. But that gives us an opportunity to convince one of these teams to trade up for Mariota and give us the farm. 

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I don't know if this has been proposed or if anybody has thought of it, but I just had a thought on the Titans situation. From what I have seen, everyone assumes that the Titans will be the first team that others contact about Mariota and if teams can't strike up a trade with them then they will just take Leonard Williams and then we get the chances to take these trades.

 

What is to say that the Titans don't just pick Mariota? It would be a win-win for them. Either they get a highly rated QB to compete with Mettenberger and probably win the job, or they can then risk holding Mariota ransom after the draft like some have suggested we do. Obviously, this is risky as they may then be stuck with Mariota, but considering the likelihood of Mettenberger being the franchise is slim, they would be carrying a lot less risk then we would.

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I don't like the comparison of Odrick to Williams, yes they both play the same position and ideally would fit into that LDE spot. But Williams has crazy speed for a guy his size. He can rush the passer, Odrick....not so much. Williams is a guy you can play all over the place. He really is a special talent. 

Odrick and William's measurables are virtually identical except for hand size (and I can't find 10 yard split but I'll bet that's almost the same too). The height, weight, 40 yard time, the shuttles, broad jump, vertical...they are all exactly the same or within half an inch/tenth of a second. As has been shown they are the 2nd most similar athletes to each other on mockdraftable's lists. 

 

The only thing I can think you could be basing this off of is Odrick being forced to play a 3 tech 2 gapping scheme last year. The Dolphins intentionally didn't want him to shoot a gap and to diagnose the play before reacting. If you look at the previous years when he was 1 gapping I bet you couldn't tell a difference between Williams and Odrick. They are scary alike. 

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I don't like the comparison of Odrick to Williams, yes they both play the same position and ideally would fit into that LDE spot. But Williams has crazy speed for a guy his size. He can rush the passer, Odrick....not so much. Williams is a guy you can play all over the place. He really is a special talent. 

spot on

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Mayock compared Williams to R. Seymour but the spider chart does say Odrick...

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Mayock compared Williams to R. Seymour but the spider chart does say Odrick...

 

all the spider chart shows is physical stats that someone ran at a combine or pro day. there are probably thousands of people in the world that have the same size and run similar speeds during drills to williams or odrick. 

 

there are plenty of wide receivers in the NFL that have the same size and speed and are completely different players.

 

there is more to a player than those spider charts... a lot more... but some people are too short sighted to see that, or are trying too hard to be new wave and edgy and rely on those charts to make an "expert analysis."

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

College Production:

 

Odrick:   25.5 TFL   14.5 Sacks 104 tackles 0 int in 4 years

 

Williams:  36.5  TFL  21 Sacks 218 tackles 2 int in 3 years

 

 

Obviously they are clones…although one does look to be just a tiny bit more disruptive

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Clearly Clones!

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