Clearly Clones!

 

I realize you shouldn't judge a DT by stats but basically double the tackles in 1 less year should show how disruptive//active Williams in for comparison

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all the spider chart shows is physical stats that someone ran at a combine or pro day. there are probably thousands of people in the world that have the same size and run similar speeds during drills to williams or odrick. 

 

there are plenty of wide receivers in the NFL that have the same size and speed and are completely different players.

 

there is more to a player than those spider charts... a lot more... but some people are too short sighted to see that, or are trying too hard to be new wave and edgy and rely on those charts to make an "expert analysis."

i agree, i looked at that chart he presented all that is is combine stats. That means nothing in the NFL. And as BlueeyedJag pointed out, Williams almost doubled Odrik's production in college in less years than him. 

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What makes Leonard Williams a more sure fire prospect than Beasley? Of the two, the most glaring hole in both profiles is Williams lack of pass rush prowess. Also, I'm not saying Williams is a bad pick. He is part of the 4 man second tier of ok picks (along with White, Fowler, and Cooper)...he's just not as good of a pick as Beasley. 

 

Beasley is the all time ACC sack leader for y'all production fiends. He has shown more than enough ability to win a pass rush in every way, and he showed off the charts athleticism even when weighing in at 246 lbs. He is both as safe as anyone and has as much upside as anyone at the same time. 

 

Williams is definitely not an elite pass rusher. His 3rd and long impact is actually the worst aspect of his game. He is a good all around, jack of all trades DL...a virtual Odrick clone. Which is funny cause look who his #2 closest physical match is on his spider chart. I think that if we didn't get Odrick he would have been a very good pick at 3, but now I would rather go Beasley or Gregory. 

 

http://mockdraftable.com/player/4900/

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So Williams isn't really a good pass rusher…yet you tout Beasley as a great pass rusher….

 

Beasley in 4 years has 33 sacks

 

Williams in 3 years has 21 sacks…would have 28 if he kept average pace over 4 years...

 

33 = great pass rusher

28 as a DT = Not really the great pass rusher you guys make him out to be

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I just think Von MIller is a better player than Odrick, who are my two comps for Beasley and Williams.

 

I just think R.Seymour is a better player than Von Miller.  Who Mayock compared for Williams.

 

See how easy this is….

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So Williams isn't really a good pass rusher…yet you tout Beasley as a great pass rusher….

 

Beasley in 4 years has 33 sacks

 

Williams in 3 years has 21 sacks…would have 28 if he kept average pace over 4 years...

 

33 = great pass rusher

28 as a DT = Not really the great pass rusher you guys make him out to be

Funny thing about those stats....


Love that you found this. Williams if he's there has been my choice for a while now.

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College Production:


Odrick: 25.5 TFL 14.5 Sacks 104 tackles 0 int in 4 years


Williams: 36.5 TFL 21 Sacks 218 tackles 2 int in 3 years



Obviously they are clones…although one does look to be just a tiny bit more disruptive

Hahahaha just a tad. But careful, you're gonna get that "box score scout" label.

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

 

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So Williams isn't really a good pass rusher…yet you tout Beasley as a great pass rusher….

 

Beasley in 4 years has 33 sacks

 

Williams in 3 years has 21 sacks…would have 28 if he kept average pace over 4 years...

 

33 = great pass rusher

28 as a DT = Not really the great pass rusher you guys make him out to be

 

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I'd say it's just a tad disingenuous to count Beasley's freshman season as a whole year. You know he started that year as a tight end right? Then he moved to defensive end as a sophomore and still rang up 8 sacks as a part timer in his first year at the position.

 

Beasley had 8, 13, and 12 sacks in basically 2.5 full time seasons, and Williams had 8, 6, and 7 in 3 full time seasons. 

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I just think R.Seymour is a better player than Von Miller.  Who Mayock compared for Williams.

 

See how easy this is….

Seymour is the absolute ceiling comp, sure. I would still rather have Von Miller. Especially if you had to ask which one would help the Jags more right now. Easily Von Miller in that case. 

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Given one is a DT/LDE and the other is an RDE/pass specialist, these are even greater arguments for Williams.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Given one is a DT/LDE and the other is an RDE/pass specialist, these are even greater arguments for Williams.

 

and this idea that you can create a virtual ceiling for a person and say thats the absolute best they will ever be is laughable. 

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

I'd say it's just a tad disingenuous to count Beasley's freshman season as a whole year. You know he started that year as a tight end right? Then he moved to defensive end as a sophomore and still rang up 8 sacks as a part timer in his first year at the position.

 

Beasley had 8, 13, and 12 sacks in basically 2.5 full time seasons, and Williams had 8, 6, and 7 in 3 full time seasons. 

Not trying to bust your balls as I would be happy with either Williams or Beasley but I think the knocking of Williams is pretty funny.

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Seymour is the absolute ceiling comp, sure. I would still rather have Von Miller. Especially if you had to ask which one would help the Jags more right now. Easily Von Miller in that case. 

 

Once again one could say…..Miller is the absolute ceiling comp for Beasley and is more likely a Bruce Irvin….

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I like Beasley but not for the LEO. He just is to light. The LEO position is more about being ferocious and having the ability to wreak havoc in the back field. I think of players like Suggs, Mathews, or Aldon Smith. Beasley is more of a speed rusher. He seems to fit more of a traditional 3-4 defense. He fits more of the Wake or Mathis type to me anyway. Fowler or Ray are more of the types of players they are looking for to play the LEO spot.

 

Now I would only take Fowler at the 3 spot. Ray would be the pick if we dropped back to 10-14.  

 

 

Beasley does have exceptional strength for his size which may make up for him being "too light." Besides he's not really. He's got the same measurements as Ray, and Caldwell already said that when it comes to the LEO weight really doesn't matter as long as he can get to the QB. Another reason to like Beasley beyond all of his fantastic measurables (excluding height) is that when you watch him you can see he's a bit of a playmaker. While a guy like Ray has an exceptional nose for the QB and will get his sacks, Beasley has a nose for the football and will get a few forced fumbles, etc, to boot. I'd like the see the link to anyone who is actually saying that Beasley deserves a higher grade than Leonard Williams, but I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if he's the pick.


 

Really I wouldn't mind Williams, Ray, Beasley or Fowler as the pick. Fowler to me is a like a BEASTMODE for the defense. Beyond his speed and skill, he's just so darn physically intimidating.

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Caldwell's history is that of a needs drafter in the early rounds, BAP later. This team has a lot of holes to fill and DT isn't one of them. Williams isn't a need. Good player, but doubtful he will be a Jag.


Beasely and Fowler are more of a match of Need to BAP than Williams.

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Beasley does have exceptional strength for his size which may make up for him being "too light." Besides he's not really. He's got the same measurements as Ray, and Caldwell already said that when it comes to the LEO weight really doesn't matter as long as he can get to the QB. Another reason to like Beasley beyond all of his fantastic measurables (excluding height) is that when you watch him you can see he's a bit of a playmaker. While a guy like Ray has an exceptional nose for the QB and will get his sacks, Beasley has a nose for the football and will get a few forced fumbles, etc, to boot. I'd like the see the link to anyone who is actually saying that Beasley deserves a higher grade than Leonard Williams, but I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if he's the pick.


Really I wouldn't mind Williams, Ray, Beasley or Fowler as the pick. Fowler to me is a like a BEASTMODE for the defense. Beyond his speed and skill, he's just so darn physically intimidating.

Your last few sentences is exactly how I feel. Any of these guys would be fine with me. I like them all to be honest. Mainly Fowler because he is very physical and we could use that on our team but all of those guy would upgrade and eat well in the LEO spot.

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