And I think this is why this topic is important: 78% of trans students had experienced harassment at school, 90% of trans people have experienced harassment in the workplace, 26% had a lost a job due to being trans (which, in-turn, leads to a 4-fold increase in risk of homelessness), 19% had experienced housing discrimination, 19% had been refused health-care, 22% had been harassed by law enforcement. Overall, 63% of trans people had experienced a serious form of discrimination, while 23% had experienced what the NTDS categorized as “catastrophic” levels of discrimination.

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Serious transgender studies are still on going and relatively knew. I think we should keep an open mind and let the research speak for itself.

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You obviously can have whatever opinion you want, but to say it is a flat out disorder with, I'm assuming, limited knowledge seems a little silly to me.

I don't have first hand knowledge but there's experts on the field who hold the same opinion, the logic to me makes sense. Like I said in every other case we treat identity loss.

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 If a person believes that what Bruce Jenner did is wrong  ( which is what I believe is the case ),   my take is that Jenner's celebrity status will lead some others down a similar path.   Hence,  Jenner is hurting others.   I wouldn't condone what Jenner did even if he was unknown to practically everyone.   But his celebrity status far increases the potential damage under the perspective that what he did is wrong.

No man is going to wake up in the morning and decide that he's actually a woman because of Caitlyn Jenner. If a transgendered male feels empowered to make the change and become the female she is because of Caitlyn Jenner, then I'd say job well done to Caitlyn.

 

"Potential damage" is kind of a joke in this context, tbqh.

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No man is going to wake up in the morning and decide that he's actually a woman because of Caitlyn Jenner. If a transgendered male feels empowered to make the change and become the female she is because of Caitlyn Jenner, then I'd say job well done to Caitlyn.


"Potential damage" is kind of a joke in this context, tbqh.

While not considering it right or wrong if identity loss is a metal illness then celebrity status celebrating the illness instead of treating it is very damaging and can easily lead others to ignore their illness and accept it as normal.


Imagine not treating eating disorders and celebrating young women that view themselves as fat even thought they are so skinny it's unhealthy, oh wait we do that already, well what effect is that having on young girls?

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I don't have first hand knowledge but there's experts on the field who hold the same opinion, the logic to me makes sense. Like I said in every other case we treat identity loss.

What"experts"?

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No man is going to wake up in the morning and decide that he's actually a woman because of Caitlyn Jenner. If a transgendered male feels empowered to make the change and become the female she is because of Caitlyn Jenner, then I'd say job well done to Caitlyn.

 

"Potential damage" is kind of a joke in this context, tbqh.

 

  Marketing/ advertising campaigns are often centered on the ability for a celebrity to sell products or services.    Wheaties built a marketing campaign with Bruce Jenner as a spokesman.   Wheaties paid Jenner millions of dollars because of his influence with many of those that admired him.


  A classic marketing/ advertising campaign that illustrates my opinion to a tee was the ' Be Like Mike'  campaign that Gatorade used.  I'm going to include the video of one of the commercials in this message.     Even to this day,  countless people buy Michael Jordan related products despite the fact that his playing career is long gone:


 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0AGiq9j_Ak

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How courageous of Bruce to accept boat loads of money for his story.

How courageous of him to be given awards and accolades from society.

 

So courageous, that one is.

 

 

Sorry, folks. Bruce can't change his chromosomes nor can he get pregnant and have a baby.

 

All he has done is mutilated a man's body. He can't change the inside. He is still, and will always be a man.

 

And, apparently, you still are and will always be an idiot.

 

If it's so easy and done just to receive accolades and recognition I assume you've already signed up for the change, right?

 

Somehow I'm guessing you would lack the guts to actually go through with something this difficult. All you've dome is mutilate your brain.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

And I think this is why this topic is important: 78% of trans students had experienced harassment at school, 90% of trans people have experienced harassment in the workplace, 26% had a lost a job due to being trans (which, in-turn, leads to a 4-fold increase in risk of homelessness), 19% had experienced housing discrimination, 19% had been refused health-care, 22% had been harassed by law enforcement. Overall, 63% of trans people had experienced a serious form of discrimination, while 23% had experienced what the NTDS categorized as “catastrophic” levels of discrimination.

 

It doesn't matter. No study will make someone like D6 change their religious convictions. To many people "this just ain't right." 

 

I suspect but can't document, that the older you are the more this upsets you. It's not a world that older people thought they signed up for.

 

What the heck is going on around here? It's a strange world.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

It doesn't matter. No study will make someone like D6 change their religious convictions. To many people "this just ain't right." 

 

I suspect but can't document, that the older you are the more this upsets you. It's not a world that older people thought they signed up for.

 

What the heck is going on around here? It's a strange world.

 

 

Adam,  you are correct.   

 

While valuable information can potentially come from studies,  nothing with change the foundation of my opinion on issues such as this one. 

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I don't have first hand knowledge but there's experts on the field who hold the same opinion, the logic to me makes sense. Like I said in every other case we treat identity loss.

You posted one experts opinion and I replied with a piece which specifically showed the potential flaws and agenda of the person you used to support your argument.

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So, what's Kanye West's female name going to be. Or will Kanye do?

Bruce/Caitlyn is now his mother in law?


Lauren Hill...Basketball player for Mt.St.Joseph who remained on the team battling brain cancer. Died in April. Raised over a million dollars for research. 19 years old.

ESPN picks a 65 year old for having courage to do what he/ she did? Tell me it's not about ratings.

Grandpa , Dad, Father in law yesterday. Grandma, Mom?, Mother in law today.

Courage.

Lauren Hill. Who?

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Blakes Life Matters

What does the "E" in ESPN stand for?

Eunuch?

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Blakes Life Matters

It doesn't matter. No study will make someone like D6 change their religious convictions. To many people "this just ain't right." 

 

I suspect but can't document, that the older you are the more this upsets you. It's not a world that older people thought they signed up for.

 

What the heck is going on around here? It's a strange world.

 

If you can't document something you probably shouldn't say it.  I can assure you that I have heard from just as many young people against this compared to older people.

 

I for one dont care, and most of the "old" people that sit around me at work could care less.

 

I think a lot of people are mixing a few things up here.  I don't think most people care that he is becoming a woman.  I do think a lot of people question the way that he is doing it.  The guy that wants to lead a "normal" life but has his own tv show, the kardashian show, and multiple interviews to talk about it.  That's not a normal life.  I used to think of Bruce Jenner as the "normal" Kardashian because he didn't seem to be a complete media hog, but I'm not so sure anymore.

 

It's also not his fault that ESPN is giving him the Arthur Ashe Award, but he coule tell them that he thinks someone is more deserving (I'm assuming he wont)

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Bruce/Caitlyn is now his mother in law?


Lauren Hill...Basketball player for Mt.St.Joseph who remained on the team battling brain cancer. Died in April. Raised over a million dollars for research. 19 years old.

ESPN picks a 65 year old for having courage to do what he/ she did? Tell me it's not about ratings.

Grandpa , Dad, Father in law yesterday. Grandma, Mom?, Mother in law today.

Courage.

Lauren Hill. Who?

 

Sure, it's about ratings.  But who cares about the ESPY awards?  I've never watched them, and I probably never will.  If ESPN defines who the most courageous sports person is, then I worry for our world.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

If you can't document something you probably shouldn't say it.  I can assure you that I have heard from just as many young people against this compared to older people.

 

I for one dont care, and most of the "old" people that sit around me at work could care less.

 

I think a lot of people are mixing a few things up here.  I don't think most people care that he is becoming a woman.  I do think a lot of people question the way that he is doing it.  The guy that wants to lead a "normal" life but has his own tv show, the kardashian show, and multiple interviews to talk about it.  That's not a normal life.  I used to think of Bruce Jenner as the "normal" Kardashian because he didn't seem to be a complete media hog, but I'm not so sure anymore.

 

It's also not his fault that ESPN is giving him the Arthur Ashe Award, but he coule tell them that he thinks someone is more deserving (I'm assuming he wont)

 

This precisely my take on the matter. Well said!

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<i>Behold man's final mad disgrace.</i>

<i>He chops his nose to spite his face.</i>

 

-Etrigan the Demon

 

If you can't document something you probably shouldn't say it. I can assure you that I have heard from just as many young people against this compared to older people.


I for one dont care, and most of the "old" people that sit around me at work could care less.


I think a lot of people are mixing a few things up here. I don't think most people care that he is becoming a woman. I do think a lot of people question the way that he is doing it. The guy that wants to lead a "normal" life but has his own tv show, the kardashian show, and multiple interviews to talk about it. That's not a normal life. I used to think of Bruce Jenner as the "normal" Kardashian because he didn't seem to be a complete media hog, but I'm not so sure anymore.


It's also not his fault that ESPN is giving him the Arthur Ashe Award, but he coule tell them that he thinks someone is more deserving (I'm assuming he wont)

Bingo! End thread..


For me, the problem isn't about whether Bruce views himself as a woman or not, whatever you do in your personal life is your business..


But let's not sit here and act like what Bruce did was some great courageous act, because it wasn't.. It's being portrayed that way by the media to push a PC agenda and to get ratings.. Nothing else.


As someone who has fought and won against cancer..I can tell you what courage is.. And I don't even come close to having the type of courage that y'all's very own Dakota is currently displaying or that Lauren Hill displayed.. Even though she passed I still view her fight as a victory for her, she still won. I couldn't imagine being 19 and having to go through that and the way she handled it was amazing and inspirational.


She looked death straight in the face, never flinched, always stayed positive, and took a death sentence and made something good come out of it by raising over a million dollars to help others. A victory against cancer isn't about if you survive or not, it's how you fight it and she never let it stop her dream of playing college basketball, that is courage.


If Caitlyn/Bruce has any integrity at all She/He will walk up to that stage and say "thank you all, but I don't deserve this award..Lauren does". If He/She does, that would show a lot more courage than him just having a sex change.

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Bingo! End thread..


For me, the problem isn't about whether Bruce views himself as a woman or not, whatever you do in your personal life is your business..


But let's not sit here and act like what Bruce did was some great courageous act, because it wasn't.. It's being portrayed that way by the media to push a PC agenda and to get ratings.. Nothing else.


As someone who has fought and won against cancer..I can tell you what courage is.. And I don't even come close to having the type of courage that y'all's very own Dakota is currently displaying or that Lauren Hill displayed.. Even though she passed I still view her fight as a victory for her, she still won. I couldn't imagine being 19 and having to go through that and the way she handled it was amazing and inspirational.


She looked death straight in the face, never flinched, always stayed positive, and turned a death sentence and made something good come out of it by raising over a million dollars to help others. A victory against cancer isn't about if you survive or not, it's how you fight it and she never let it stop her dream of playing college basketball, that is courage.


If Caitlyn/Bruce has any integrity at all She/He will walk up to that stage and say "thank you all, but I don't deserve this award..Lauren does". If He/She does, that would show a lot more courage than him just having a sex change.

 

I read this as Hallelujah played on the radio...kind of ironic.

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Sure, it's about ratings. But who cares about the ESPY awards? I've never watched them, and I probably never will. If ESPN defines who the most courageous sports person is, then I worry for our world.

Just because you don't care if some remarkable teenager is getting ramrodded postmortem just so ESPN can do their ratings whoring with Jenner, doesn't mean other people don't care.


And please show one person who said ESPN defines who the most courageous sports person is, it isn't even about that. It's about decency and respect.. And ESPN has lost both. With or without the award anyone with half a brain cell will know who the real winner is.. And it isn't Bruce or Caitlyn.

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Just because you don't care if some remarkable teenager is getting ramrodded postmortem just so ESPN can do their ratings whoring with Jenner, doesn't mean other people don't care.


And please show one person who said ESPN defines who is the most courageous sports person is, it isn't even about that. It's about decency and respect.. And ESPN has lost both. With or without the award anyone with half a brain cell will know who the real winner is.. And it isn't Bruce or Caitlyn.

 

You sound way too sane for a Texan fan.

 

The whole who watches the Espys?  Why does ESPN decide who receives this award is a complete cop out to the topic at hand.

 

This conversation in the long run isn't going to affect any of us, its just a discussion.

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