Oh I love it when old threads get dug up...

 

I don't care who's oline is worse.

The smaller frame QBs don't usually last. Not as starters.

 

Wilson is making a case and maybe Eminem does stay healthy, but his history suggests otherwise.

 

Even still... Bortles is the better QB imo. Always will be.

And I'd definitely take Winston over Eminem.

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Tom Brady is 6'4", 225.  Peyton was 6'5", 230.  Marcus is 6'4", 222.  What the hell are you guys talking about?

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We learned in the Sunday School who made the sun shine through.  I know who made the moonshine too, back where I come from.

Tom Brady is 6'4", 225.  Peyton was 6'5", 230.  Marcus is 6'4", 222.  What the hell are you guys talking about?

 

That list can go on and on too. The only other fat quartback I can think of is Ben Roethlisberger, and he's missed some time to injury, just like any other football player. I really don't know what the point of this is.

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That list can go on and on too. The only other fat quartback I can think of is Ben Roethlisberger, and he's missed some time to injury, just like any other football player. I really don't know what the point of this is.

Jared Lorenzen is definitely the fattest QB ever of all time.

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Tom Brady is 6'4", 225. Peyton was 6'5", 230. Marcus is 6'4", 222. What the hell are you guys talking about?

They dont know

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Tom Brady is 6'4", 225.  Peyton was 6'5", 230.  Marcus is 6'4", 222.  What the hell are you guys talking about?

I don't think slight frame is height + weight

 

It's how you carry the weight and such. MM is a slighter frame but could weigh similar as the other guys by pure muscle weight etc.

 

Also, Eminem's history is one factor we (the collective Mariota bashers) use in talking about him racking up injuries.

 

Manning had like one serious injury in his career.

Brady only had the ACL that someone fell on him and caused.

 

MM has already had knee and ankle issues in college and the pros.

I mean... the proof is in the puddin'... puddin.

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I don't think slight frame is height + weight


It's how you carry the weight and such. MM is a slighter frame but could weigh similar as the other guys by pure muscle weight etc


I mean... the proof is in the puddin'... puddin.

this isnt proof, this is just a fallacy

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"Theyre all the same heigt and weight but marcus is slighter because well he is"

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Teddy Bridgewater says hi!

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

"Theyre all the same heigt and weight but marcus is slighter because well he is"

 

No, they are all similar weights and height, but each carries said weight differently.

 

If you stand the 3 QBs next to each other and they all look the same, get some glasses bruh.

 

Also, history is proof. MM has how many injuries for his career already? Jake Locker. Now Teddy.

If Russel Wilson wasn't so damn good, he'd probably have already been injured too.

 

Again, we're talking about frame, not weight. But 15 pounds can be a pretty solid difference too, especially for someone 1 couple inches shorter on their frame.

Continue being a know-it-all-know-nothing, G-unit.

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No, they are all similar weights and height, but each carries said weight differently.


If you stand the 3 QBs next to each other and they all look the same, get some glasses bruh.


Also, history is proof. MM has how many injuries for his career already? Jake Locker. Now Teddy.

If Russel Wilson wasn't so damn good, he'd probably have already been injured too.


Again, we're talking about frame, not weight. But 15 pounds can be a pretty solid difference too, especially for someone 1 couple inches shorter on their frame.

Continue being a know-it-all-know-nothing, G-unit.

okay but where is the proof that marcus carries his weight differently than tom

or peyton


Marcus had a knee injury and a shoulder sprain in college.

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Its not the size necessarily, its the number of hits and the types of hits.  No matter how large you are, you can only get hit so much before you start to miss games.  MM was taking too many unnecessary hits in awkward positions to say the least.  Big Ben is huge, yet he holds the ball long, they've had bad o-lines and he takes punishment, and therefore he has missed lots of games.  If MM doesn't change his game the same will happen to him.

 

 

As for BB, I agree that his actual level of play isn't near what his stats suggest.  His fantasy value is much better than his actual value.  Here is my case, for why the 35TD's in context is not spectacular.  I decided to do a deep dive into the stats historically speaking.

 

Jacksonville rushed for a meager 5 TD's, 2 of which were his, to put in context in the last 10 seasons only 7 out of 320 teams rushed for less, the league average last year being 11.4, and 12.7 over the 10 year span.  Essentially JAX opted to throw the ball in, instead of running which atypically added to the Pass TD total with no real marginal benefit to the team.

 

To put his overall passing stats in historical context

 

Since 1980, there were

 

30 seasons of QB's throwing 35 TD's or more

 

BB posted 

 

30th or worst completion %

4th Most INT's

28th best TD%

3rd worst INT%

Worst Passer Rating

28th Best Y/a 

30th or worst Adjusted Yards Per Attempt

30th or worst adjusted net yards per attempt

 

81 seasons of QB's throwing 30 TD's or more

BB posted

 

80th or 2nd worst completion %

10th Most INT's

48th best TD%

14th worst TD%

14th worst INT%

4th worst Passer Rating

66th best Y/A

70th best Adjusted yards per attempt

75th best Adjusted net yards per attempt

 

In comparison to the previous seasons of 30 or more TD's, last season was pretty underwhelming to say the least.  It says a lot that he had the worst and 4th worst passer rating historically speaking.   Essentially he put up large TD and yard numbers because of the large volume of attempts, his TD% was low, and his INT% was relatively high.  I didn't even get into the number of TD's that were had when games were basically over in the blow out losses.   Don't get caught in the 35TD's, his last season in that context wasn't good.

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okay but where is the proof that marcus carries his weight differently than tom

or peyton


Marcus had a knee injury and a shoulder sprain in college.

Other than using your eyes to look at these QBs and tell they don't look the same even weighing within 15 lbs of each other.

 

I'm not going to change your mind. It's OK. You think his weight and height being similar to other QBs means he doesn't have a slight frame, which admittedly is kind of a made up term, but people say it, and it's true based on historical instances to back up the idea that smaller "framed" QBs get injured more often. Muscle mass adds weight but your bones are your bones and your tendons and ligaments are what they are. For a smaller frame body they are not meant to stress as much... just my rather uneducated assessment of something that is very real.

 

P.S.

Mariota also injured his knee in his first NFL season. 3 injuries in 3 seasons, coincidence? 

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Its not the size necessarily, its the number of hits and the types of hits. No matter how large you are, you can only get hit so much before you start to miss games. MM was taking too many unnecessary hits in awkward positions to say the least. Big Ben is huge, yet he holds the ball long, they've had bad o-lines and he takes punishment, and therefore he has missed lots of games. If MM doesn't change his game the same will happen to him.



As for BB, I agree that his actual level of play isn't near what his stats suggest. His fantasy value is much better than his actual value. Here is my case, for why the 35TD's in context is not spectacular. I decided to do a deep dive into the stats historically speaking.


Jacksonville rushed for a meager 5 TD's, 2 of which were his, to put in context in the last 10 seasons only 7 out of 320 teams rushed for less, the league average last year being 11.4, and 12.7 over the 10 year span. Essentially JAX opted to throw the ball in, instead of running which atypically added to the Pass TD total with no real marginal benefit to the team.


To put his overall passing stats in historical context


Since 1980, there were


30 seasons of QB's throwing 35 TD's or more


BB posted

30th or worst completion %

4th Most INT's

28th best TD%
3rd worst INT%
Worst Passer Rating

28th Best Y/a
30th or worst Adjusted Yards Per Attempt
30th or worst adjusted net yards per attempt


81 seasons of QB's throwing 30 TD's or more

BB posted

80th or 2nd worst completion %

10th Most INT's

48th best TD%

14th worst TD%

14th worst INT%
4th worst Passer Rating

66th best Y/A
70th best Adjusted yards per attempt
75th best Adjusted net yards per attempt


In comparison to the previous seasons of 30 or more TD's, last season was pretty underwhelming to say the least. It says a lot that he had the worst and 4th worst passer rating historically speaking. Essentially he put up large TD and yard numbers because of the large volume of attempts, his TD% was low, and his INT% was relatively high. I didn't even get into the number of TD's that were had when games were basically over in the blow out losses. Don't get caught in the 35TD's, his last season in that context wasn't good.

^^^^

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Other than using your eyes to look at these QBs and tell they don't look the same even weighing within 15 lbs of each other.


I'm not going to change your mind. It's OK. You think his weight and height being similar to other QBs means he doesn't have a slight frame, which admittedly is kind of a made up term, but people say it, and it's true based on historical instances to back up the idea that smaller "framed" QBs get injured more often. Muscle mass adds weight but your bones are your bones and your tendons and ligaments are what they are. For a smaller frame body they are not meant to stress as much... just my rather uneducated assessment of something that is very real.


P.S.

Mariota also injured his knee in his first NFL season. 3 injuries in 3 seasons, coincidence?

the knee injury im referring to is the one from his nfl season

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Its not the size necessarily, its the number of hits and the types of hits.  No matter how large you are, you can only get hit so much before you start to miss games.  MM was taking too many unnecessary hits in awkward positions to say the least.  Big Ben is huge, yet he holds the ball long, they've had bad o-lines and he takes punishment, and therefore he has missed lots of games.  If MM doesn't change his game the same will happen to him.

 

 

As for BB, I agree that his actual level of play isn't near what his stats suggest.  His fantasy value is much better than his actual value.  Here is my case, for why the 35TD's in context is not spectacular.  I decided to do a deep dive into the stats historically speaking.

 

Jacksonville rushed for a meager 5 TD's, 2 of which were his, to put in context in the last 10 seasons only 7 out of 320 teams rushed for less, the league average last year being 11.4, and 12.7 over the 10 year span.  Essentially JAX opted to throw the ball in, instead of running which atypically added to the Pass TD total with no real marginal benefit to the team.

 

To put his overall passing stats in historical context

 

Since 1980, there were

 

30 seasons of QB's throwing 35 TD's or more

 

BB posted 

 

30th or worst completion %

4th Most INT's

28th best TD%

3rd worst INT%

Worst Passer Rating

28th Best Y/a 

30th or worst Adjusted Yards Per Attempt

30th or worst adjusted net yards per attempt

 

81 seasons of QB's throwing 30 TD's or more

BB posted

 

80th or 2nd worst completion %

10th Most INT's

48th best TD%

14th worst TD%

14th worst INT%

4th worst Passer Rating

66th best Y/A

70th best Adjusted yards per attempt

75th best Adjusted net yards per attempt

 

In comparison to the previous seasons of 30 or more TD's, last season was pretty underwhelming to say the least.  It says a lot that he had the worst and 4th worst passer rating historically speaking.   Essentially he put up large TD and yard numbers because of the large volume of attempts, his TD% was low, and his INT% was relatively high.  I didn't even get into the number of TD's that were had when games were basically over in the blow out losses.   Don't get caught in the 35TD's, his last season in that context wasn't good.

I was speaking on the matter of injuries and being a long-term true franchise QB.

I do not believe MM is this.

 

Does being hit and sacked a lot affect stats, yeah... and any QB getting hit too much won't be able to play well.

 

But to your points... someone has already debunked this "garbage time stats" myth about Bortles. 

But I'll admit he still has growing to do as a QB. Which is good since he's only in year 3 (and left college early).

Mariota has hit his ceiling, imo. And won't stay healthy enough to prove me wrong, imo.

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the knee injury im referring to is the one from his nfl season

He had a knee injury in college too

 

<p class="" style="font-family:'Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, serif;color:rgb(41,41,41);font-size:16px;font-style:italic;">Source with knowledge of situation tells me <a class="" href='http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/players/136013/marcus-mariota'>Marcus Mariota</a> has a partial sprain of his MCL #GoDucks

— Collin Harmon (@Collin_Harmon) November 8, 2013

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and mariota knee injury came from a low cheap hit, has nothing to do with frame anyone could have gotten hurt on that play.

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He had a knee injury in college too


Source with knowledge of situation tells me <a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/players/136013/marcus-mariota'>Marcus Mariota</a> has a partial sprain of his MCL <a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GoDucks&src=hash'>#GoDucks</a>
— Collin Harmon (@Collin_Harmon) <a class="bbc_url" href='https://twitter.com/Collin_Harmon/statuses/398621949783322625'>November 8, 2013</a>

Yep the same knee olivier dived for

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Yep the same knee olivier dived for

lol

 

sawft

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