No matter how much we bulk up this line, Clowney, Watt and Mercilus are nigh on impossible to stop

 

Nice use of the word "nigh," I'm impressed!

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Watt will never be the same guy.

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Watt will never be the same guy.

 

I don't think he has to be. Even if he comes back HALF of his former self he's still going to be capable of getting 10.0+ sacks per year.

 

He's also getting help now from guys like Clowney and Mercilius which will eventually put an offense at a "pick your poison" disadvantage. Knowing Watt's ridiculous work ethic though. He could end up coming back and causing hell like he's always done.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I don't think he has to be. Even if he comes back HALF of his former self he's still going to be capable of getting 10.0+ sacks per year.


He's also getting help now from guys like Clowney and Mercilius which will eventually put an offense at a "pick your poison" disadvantage. Knowing Watt's ridiculous work ethic though. He could end up coming back and causing hell like he's always done.

You clearly don't even understand what kind of player Watt was to start with.


In his big years he was getting about a third of his sacks from the Jaguars and titans. He won't be mauling the titans from here on out, and while the Jaguars might still suck if you think he's going to be able to make up for his lack of production against the rest of the league just against the Jaguars going forward then I think you didn't see what he was in 2016, which is what he'll be going forward.

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You clearly don't even understand what kind of player Watt was to start with.


In his big years he was getting about a third of his sacks from the Jaguars and titans. He won't be mauling the titans from here on out, and while the Jaguars might still suck if you think he's going to be able to make up for his lack of production against the rest of the league just against the Jaguars going forward then I think you didn't see what he was in 2016, which is what he'll be going forward.

Yep. With every improvement to afc south olines, JJ fraud becomes more frustrated since hell no longer be able to pick on the weakest link of the weakest divisions olines

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You clearly don't even understand what kind of player Watt was to start with.


In his big years he was getting about a third of his sacks from the Jaguars and titans. He won't be mauling the titans from here on out, and while the Jaguars might still suck if you think he's going to be able to make up for his lack of production against the rest of the league just against the Jaguars going forward then I think you didn't see what he was in 2016, which is what he'll be going forward.

 

Apparently all of the NFL players don't understand him either as he won defensive player of the year 3 times.

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Hope that he can come on back. Texans need him!

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Apparently all of the NFL players don't understand him either as he won defensive player of the year 3 times.

I'll put it this way, in 2015 he had 6.5 of 17.5 sacks against the Jaguars and titans. In 2014 he had 10 out of 20.5 against the Jaguars and titans. 2013 it was 4 out of 10.5. in 2012 it was 6.5 out of 16.5. in 2011 it was 3 out of 5.5.


He's been a great player, but his numbers have been badly inflated by being able to play against two of the all time worst teams the NFL has ever seen over the first five years of his career.


He never had less than 37% of his sacks in a season against those two, and as you can see, in multiple years he had about half his sacks against them.


If the Jaguars and titans play him like average teams then he's still a great player, but no one is saying he's the best pass rusher since LT, or White, or whomever they want to compare him to.


I'm already confident the titans can block him. If the Jaguars can hold him to one sack in each game he likely doesn't get into double digits again.

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I'll put it this way, in 2015 he had 6.5 of 17.5 sacks against the Jaguars and titans. In 2014 he had 10 out of 20.5 against the Jaguars and titans. 2013 it was 4 out of 10.5. in 2012 it was 6.5 out of 16.5. in 2011 it was 3 out of 5.5.


He's been a great player, but his numbers have been badly inflated by being able to play against two of the all time worst teams the NFL has ever seen over the first five years of his career.


He never had less than 37% of his sacks in a season against those two, and as you can see, in multiple years he had about half his sacks against them.


If the Jaguars and titans play him like average teams then he's still a great player, but no one is saying he's the best pass rusher since LT, or White, or whomever they want to compare him to.


I'm already confident the titans can block him. If the Jaguars can hold him to one sack in each game he likely doesn't get into double digits again.

I get your point, but using your numbers as the basis, if you eliminated the sack totals obtained from the Jaguars and Titans games, he still has 11 sacks in 2015, 10.5 in 2014, 6.5 in 2013, and 10 in 2012.  Those are still significant totals, especially for a strong side DE in a 3-4.

 

No matter how you slice it, Watt's been a great player.

 

If he is capable of producing 7-8 sacks, even though that is less than his optimal amount, he's still very much a factor in that defense.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I get your point, but using your numbers as the basis, if you eliminated the sack totals obtained from the Jaguars and Titans games, he still has 11 sacks in 2015, 10.5 in 2014, 6.5 in 2013, and 10 in 2012.  Those are still significant totals, especially for a strong side DE in a 3-4.

 

No matter how you slice it, Watt's been a great player.

 

If he is capable of producing 7-8 sacks, even though that is less than his optimal amount, he's still very much a factor in that defense.

 

If he produces 7-8 sacks and makes tackles when they come to him then he'll be a good player. If the Jaguars straighten out their offensive line to some degree this offseason then 7-8 sacks is probably a great year for him moving forward.

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If he produces 7-8 sacks and makes tackles when they come to him then he'll be a good player. If the Jaguars straighten out their offensive line to some degree this offseason then 7-8 sacks is probably a great year for him moving forward.

(Emphasis added)

 

The phrase in bold will actually be key.

 

If he becomes a liability against the run, not only does it offset the hypothetical 7-8 sacks, but limits the effectiveness of the entire defense, because that would mean fewer obvious passing situations. This is particularly true if Wilfork holds firm to his decision to retire.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

You clearly don't even understand what kind of player Watt was to start with.


In his big years he was getting about a third of his sacks from the Jaguars and titans. He won't be mauling the titans from here on out, and while the Jaguars might still suck if you think he's going to be able to make up for his lack of production against the rest of the league just against the Jaguars going forward then I think you didn't see what he was in 2016, which is what he'll be going forward.

 

That's not factually wrong. I've seen this floated around here before. In 2014 he had 10.0 sacks out of his 20.5 that came from 4 games. So, what's your point? He's still a 10.0+ sack guy even without this weak division which is what I said from the giddy up. If he's even half of who is he is he's technically looking at 10.0 sacks instead of 20.0   :yes:

 

Now, in 2015. He managed 17.5 sacks. Between us and the tacks he managed 6.5 sacks. Guess what? He's STILL over 10.0+ sacks without this weak division. Also, he was completely kept in check and didn't register a sack at all against us at home that year. 

 

He still commands double teams as well. Somehow it's less impressive that he DOES HIS JOB? Isn't that what he's paid to do? To wreck lesser competition? Stupid argument. You really are seldom right. 

 

In a pass happy era he's a modern day Bruce Smith / Reggie White. Don't know why people can't accept that. So, he's somehow not worthy of being a 3x Defender of the year because he can't help the fact that his division sucks? 

 

LOL.

 

Stupid logic is stupid. Should we cheapen Peyton Manning's legacy for playing in a putrid division for 12 - 13 years? Should we cheapen Tom Brady's accomplishments for playing in a weak AFC East throughout the majority of his career?

 

Should we cheapen Emmitt Smith's HoF career because he decided to run the football 600 more times than guys like Walter Payton to barely squeeze him out of the #1 rushing spot? 

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

That's not factually wrong. I've seen this floated around here before. In 2014 he had 10.0 sacks out of his 20.5 that came from 4 games. So, what's your point? He's still a 10.0+ sack guy even without this weak division which is what I said from the giddy up. If he's even half of who is he is he's technically looking at 10.0 sacks instead of 20.0 :yes:


Now, in 2015. He managed 17.5 sacks. Between us and the tacks he managed 6.5 sacks. Guess what? He's STILL over 10.0+ sacks without this weak division. Also, he was completely kept in check and didn't register a sack at all against us at home that year.


He still commands double teams as well. Somehow it's less impressive that he DOES HIS JOB? Isn't that what he's paid to do? To wreck lesser competition? Stupid argument. You really are seldom right.


In a pass happy era he's a modern day Bruce Smith / Reggie White. Don't know why people can't accept that. So, he's somehow not worthy of being a 3x Defender of the year because he can't help the fact that his division sucks?


LOL.


Stupid logic is stupid. Should we cheapen Peyton Manning's legacy for playing in a putrid division for 12 - 13 years? Should we cheapen Tom Brady's accomplishments for playing in a weak AFC East throughout the majority of his career?


Should we cheapen Emmitt Smith's HoF career because he decided to run the football 600 more times than guys like Walter Payton to barely squeeze him out of the #1 rushing spot?

He's been a great player, just not the generational talent some think he is.


Comparing him to Reggie White is a joke, he spent most of his career making his stats against the strongest division football ever saw, not the weakest it ever saw, like Watt.


As for the others, Manning's stats are cheapened by his competition, Brady had five super bowl championships, suggesting his accomplishments are cheapened is idiotic. He made the AFC East look bad, not them making him look good. Emmett Smith doesn't need cheapening, he got his stats for years against the best division in football ever.


Clearly you don't even have a decent grasp of the history of the game if you think you can compare what Watt has faced to what Reggie White faced.

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Back injuries have ruined many a career.

 

But if he can come back close to what he was pre injury, they will be a scary good defense, and it reinforces the idea we need to bolster the O-Line.

 

Look at our own John Henderson and Marcus Stroud. Stroud started with leg injuries, but it was the back that did him over. Henderson went from being the best DT in the game to getting cut in two seasons. Tall guys, in NFL terms (6'5+), don't last long in the NFL. I think the average is like 5-7 year careers or something. Your spine and hips are everything when it comes to ortho-physiological priorities of athletes. 

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He's been a great player, just not the generational talent some think he is.


Comparing him to Reggie White is a joke, he spent most of his career making his stats against the strongest division football ever saw, not the weakest it ever saw, like Watt.


As for the others, Manning's stats are cheapened by his competition, Brady had five super bowl championships, suggesting his accomplishments are cheapened is idiotic. He made the AFC East look bad, not them making him look good. Emmett Smith doesn't need cheapening, he got his stats for years against the best division in football ever.


Clearly you don't even have a decent grasp of the history of the game if you think you can compare what Watt has faced to what Reggie White faced.

 

Wrong and wrong again. Comparing Watt to White is fair. Watt has 76.0 sacks in just five years. White had 81.0 through his first five years. They're both freak athletes from their respective generations. And they both clearly are the best at their respective positions in their respective generations. Anyone with eyes can see that. 

 

And, once again with your divisional argument. It's stupid. Reggie was a guy that racked up half his yearly sack totals against the NFC East. It's pretty basic math. If you play a team twice a year, you're going to get familiar with their match ups and you're going to figure out a way to dominate. Reggie did just that in 1987 when he amassed 10.5 of his 21.0 sacks against the NFC East. 

 

Stupid logic is stupid. And, if it was so easy for Watt to do what he's doing at the DE position in today's current era of football. Where are the other guys at his position amassing these yearly statistics? Because there's not very many out there. There's a huge gap difference in talent, skill and ability at his position compared to the next man after him that's done it CONSISTENTLY for the past five years. 

 

And here's where I am fixing to really hurt your feelings. White played most of his career in a  4 - 3 and 46 (his best years)defensive scheme that allowed more one on one match ups to get to the QB. Watt plays in a 3 - 4 and still manages to amass statistics where the scheme traditionally is suited to allow OLB's to flourish along with the ILB's for getting after the QB. Watt's primary role was to be a space eater. I don't think anyone expected him to be a better version of Justin Smith. 

 

And as far as the comparisons with Brady, Manning, Smith, etc. My point was that your argument was that because he plays in such a "weak" division that it somehow cheapens his accomplishments on the field. It's just a STUPID argument. When, again, if it WERE so EASY. You'd see more Watt's running around the NFL. Which you don't. We'd see more Brady's, Manning's or Smith's. You DON'T see that. Therefore, he's a generational type player. You don't get the nod three times by unanimous decisions as the NFL's defender of the year in five seasons because it's easy.... 

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

The other point I'd like to make is that a defensive players effectiveness isn't just based on sacks.  The number of tackles for loss, forced fumbles\recoveries, and for Watt in particular Passes Defensed!  Literally for a 3-4 DE to be competing with CBs in that category is insane.  Another item that can't be measured and can only be seen with your eyes, is the ability to absolutely wreck an offense.  He may not get a sack but the QB has to throw the ball away before he makes a single read, he may smash a gap that was designed for the RB to go through, and he may bust through a double-team that creates huge gaps for his linebackers.  These are the type of plays that influence other players and the opposing teams OC. And in case you didn't know his three DPOY awards ties him with Lawrence Taylor as the only other player to win it that many times.

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Wrong and wrong again. Comparing Watt to White is fair. Watt has 76.0 sacks in just five years. White had 81.0 through his first five years. They're both freak athletes from their respective generations. And they both clearly are the best at their respective positions in their respective generations. Anyone with eyes can see that. 

 

And, once again with your divisional argument. It's stupid. Reggie was a guy that racked up half his yearly sack totals against the NFC East. It's pretty basic math. If you play a team twice a year, you're going to get familiar with their match ups and you're going to figure out a way to dominate. Reggie did just that in 1987 when he amassed 10.5 of his 21.0 sacks against the NFC East. 

 

Stupid logic is stupid. And, if it was so easy for Watt to do what he's doing at the DE position in today's current era of football. Where are the other guys at his position amassing these yearly statistics? Because there's not very many out there. There's a huge gap difference in talent, skill and ability at his position compared to the next man after him that's done it CONSISTENTLY for the past five years. 

 

And here's where I am fixing to really hurt your feelings. White played most of his career in a  4 - 3 and 46 (his best years)defensive scheme that allowed more one on one match ups to get to the QB. Watt plays in a 3 - 4 and still manages to amass statistics where the scheme traditionally is suited to allow OLB's to flourish along with the ILB's for getting after the QB. Watt's primary role was to be a space eater. I don't think anyone expected him to be a better version of Justin Smith. 

 

And as far as the comparisons with Brady, Manning, Smith, etc. My point was that your argument was that because he plays in such a "weak" division that it somehow cheapens his accomplishments on the field. It's just a STUPID argument. When, again, if it WERE so EASY. You'd see more Watt's running around the NFL. Which you don't. We'd see more Brady's, Manning's or Smith's. You DON'T see that. Therefore, he's a generational type player. You don't get the nod three times by unanimous decisions as the NFL's defender of the year in five seasons because it's easy.... 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. Good player, but not as great as the Jaguars and titans have made him look. It's a shame his back will likely make him a shadow of what he even was.

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