You're clueless.


if that's what you call logic, I feel sorry for you.



That simplistic and, I'll say it again, STUPID way of thinking should not exclude a player from your draft board.


What's even more hilarious is that this Amos guy is what, a middle or late round pick?


Played for penn state? He's a DB? Nope lets not even bother scouting him.

I didn't say don't scout the guy.

 

I do say not to draft the guy high-if at all-or expect much out of him if you do draft him.

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I didn't say don't scout the guy.


I do say not to draft the guy high-if at all-or expect much out of him if you do draft him.

If you read the OP, he was discussing him as a 4th-5th round pick.

Nobody talked about drafting him high.

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Fine. Make the argument for him besides simply being better than Evans.

Versatile. Can blitz, play centerfield, cover WRs in man, Good zone awareness and does a good job of closing on routes while in coverage.

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Versatile. Can blitz, play centerfield, cover WRs in man, Good zone awareness and does a good job of closing on routes while in coverage.

Played for penn state. Pass.

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Like I said, that's not how this works.


If you don't understand that that does not necessarily predict future success or failures, then I really have nothing to discuss with you.


Name one QB from Miami of Ohio prior to Big Ben?


It's so easy to crush your joke of an argument.

 

That is the key phrase right there.

 

I did not say it was the definitive, sole determinant of success or failure.

 

It is a factor/consideration.  Nothing more.  Caldwell has stated he would place more of a scouting emphasis on bigger schools.  His rationale?  That's where the players tend to come from.

 

http://www.jaguars.com/news/article-Edit...a9221ca7a3

 

 

<b>3. Talking philosophies. </b>As Caldwell prepared for the combine last week, he took time to talk to jaguars.com about his draft philosophies. One, he said, was that the Jaguars moving forward likely will lean more toward major conference players as opposed to smaller schools, though he has nothing philosophically against selecting small-school players. Caldwell said the approach is simply a matter of playing the percentages. “I always believe in drafting and acquiring toward what the norms are,” he said. “If 93 percent of the players in the NFL are playing at Division I-A programs, that’s the norm. I’m not saying I would never draft a small-school player, but they would have to dominate that level. I wouldn’t say absolutes, but I’m a believer: big school, big competition.’’

(emphasis added)

 

So under your logic, Caldwell is "stupid" for leaning more towards schools that produce players than schools that don't.  How is that any different?

 

But if I am off, if it's always the player, not the school, how can a school like Penn State not produce ANY DBs to do anything in the NFL?!?

 

Answer that question.

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You didn't say lean more. 

 

You said "No."

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No.

 

Penn State DBs tend to suck.

So do their WRs but AR15 seems to be pretty good.

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If you're saying you're just factoring into your equation, fine..... I'm sorry for arguing with you.

 

I was under the impression that you saw "Penn State DB" and just said "NOPE." without even considering that he may become a useful player.

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You didn't say lean more. 

 

You said "No."

In the case of this Penn State DB...that's right, I said no.

 

Until I see a dominant guy at DB from them, I would pass on a Penn State DB.  He was not dominant.

 

But answer my questions. 

 

Is Caldwell "stupid" for having that philosophy I quoted above?

 

Why hasn't Penn State produced any DBs worth anything over the years?  Forget Amos for the second, and just address the general inquiry.

 

How can a program that has produced GREAT pros at several positions (LB, interior OL, FB, some RBs) never produce ANYONE worth anything at DB?

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So do their WRs but AR15 seems to be pretty good.

Yeah...fortunately for us, he seems to be pretty good.  If he can stay healthy, he could be the best Penn St. WR ever.  O.J. McDuffie and Joe Jurevicius were at least decent to good.

 

Those two guys were far better WRs than ANY Penn State DBs.

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FSU hasn't produced any starting caliber QBs in over 20 years so basically Jamies is undraftable. See how easy being a scout is?

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FSU hasn't produced any starting caliber QBs in over 20 years so basically Jamies is undraftable. See how easy being a scout is?

Jameis Winston falls into the "dominant" criteria.  He is bigger, stronger armed, and more accurate than ANY FSU QB.

 

But even with that, when you consider the QBs Jimbo Fisher has produced (Ponder, Manuel and Ja. Russell), it gives you pause.

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Jameis Winston falls into the "dominant" criteria.  He is bigger, stronger armed, and more accurate than ANY FSU QB.

Can't you say that about the DB from Penn St? Way more talented than any DB from PSU in maybe forever, right?

 

When more cutups become available, why not just watch and judge for yourself? There will always be exceptions in the draft. Can't always use history to write off a player.

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Can't you say that about the DB from Penn St? Way more talented than any DB from PSU in maybe forever, right?

 

When more cutups become available, why not just watch and judge for yourself? There will always be exceptions in the draft. Can't always use history to write off a player.

Understand that cuts both ways.

 

The University of Washington has an ignominious history of producing washouts at WR.  For years, WR after WR never amounted to anything in the NFL coming from that school.

 

But there came along a guy who appeared to break that mold.

 

He was big (6-3-220 or so), and fast.

 

Carried a first-2nd round grade.

 

His name:  Reggie Williams.

 

UW did not produce even a decent WR until Jermaine Kearse with Seattle...and even he went undrafted IIRC.

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I like Amos as well, and do think he would be an upgrade over Evans in terms of coverage ability. And not just because his name isn't Evans. I just think he's a better FS.

I think he has the potential to be, but I don't really see any mid-round safety prospect (unless they convert a corner like Josh Shaw or Ifo Ekpre-Olomu) with the potential to be better than and start over Evans as a rookie.

 

He was big (6-3-220 or so), and fast.

 

Carried a first-2nd round grade.

 

His name:  Reggie Williams.

That might be the first time I've ever seen the word "fast" associated with Reggie Williams. He was a 4.6 guy in workouts, and even during the "spectacular" private workout that sold Shack on him, he only posted a 4.49.

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I think he has the potential to be, but I don't really see any mid-round safety prospect (unless they convert a corner like Josh Shaw or Ifo Ekpre-Olomu) with the potential to be better than and start over Evans as a rookie.

 

That might be the first time I've ever seen the word "fast" associated with Reggie Williams. He was a 4.6 guy in workouts, and even during the "spectacular" private workout that sold Shack on him, he only posted a 4.49.

4.49 is fast for a guy that big.

 

Freakish fast?  No.

 

But 4.49 is pretty good speed for that size.

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 Appalachian State isn't exactly a cornerback producing powerhouse 

 

Yet Demetrius McCray was drafted from them and is a good football player.

 

I'm not sure you understand the draft Bullseye.

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 Appalachian State isn't exactly a cornerback producing powerhouse 

 

Yet Demetrius McCray was drafted from them and is a good football player.

 

I'm not sure you understand the draft Bullseye.

1.  No, App state isn't a CB producing powerhouse.

 

2.  McCray was, what, a 6th-7th round pick? 

 

What sensible person expects a starter, much less a QUALITY starter, out of a 7th round pick, irrespective of where they went to school, much less a school that does not have much history producing players at that position?

 

If he were truly viewed to be a dominant corner in a pass happy league, why did he fall that far?

 

I understand the draft quite well, thank you very much.

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In the case of this Penn State DB...that's right, I said no.

 

Until I see a dominant guy at DB from them, I would pass on a Penn State DB.  He was not dominant.

 

But answer my questions. 

 

Is Caldwell "stupid" for having that philosophy I quoted above?

 

Why hasn't Penn State produced any DBs worth anything over the years?  Forget Amos for the second, and just address the general inquiry.

 

How can a program that has produced GREAT pros at several positions (LB, interior OL, FB, some RBs) never produce ANYONE worth anything at DB?

 

I tend to agree with Caldwell.  He talked about generally speaking, you get players from Division 1 schools and big program.  He actually cited LEVEL OF COMPETITION as the reason.  He didn't say "We target players from schools that are traditionally known for developing certain positions, and avoid players from schools where they haven't developed anyone in the past."

 

He said generally speaking, you will look at the big schools first because that's where most of the talent is.  He said this as a direct response when someone asked about his drafting philosophy, citing "small school Gene" as the other example.

 

Maybe your reading comprehension is poor, but Caldwell's statements are not directly in support of what you said.

 

You just said you wouldn't draft the guy because he played at Penn State.  Caldwell would NEVER say or think that.  Case in point - we drafted a WR from Penn State pretty high and it's not like they're known for developing good receivers.

 

To answer your other question:  Why haven't they created that many good defensive backs?  I'm not sure, maybe Joe Pa and his defense stressed lineman and LBs more, but I don't know the details.  I'm saying that it's not that unusual to find one specific position group from a big school and then realize that they haven't really developed that many good players from that position.

 

I also realize that Penn State has new leadership.  In that case alone, you can pretty much forget Joe Pa's years completely and just look at what O'Brien and Franklin (if that's his name) have done/will do.

 

If you scout the player and you like him a lot, it doesn't really matter where he came from.

 

You are likely going to find those players at the best college programs where they play the highest level of competition.

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I tend to agree with Caldwell.  He talked about generally speaking, you get players from Division 1 schools and big program.  He actually cited LEVEL OF COMPETITION as the reason.  He didn't say "We target players from schools that are traditionally known for developing certain positions, and avoid players from schools where they haven't developed anyone in the past."

 

He said generally speaking, you will look at the big schools first because that's where most of the talent is.  He said this as a direct response when someone asked about his drafting philosophy, citing "small school Gene" as the other example.

 

Maybe your reading comprehension is poor, but Caldwell's statements are not directly in support of what you said.

 

You just said you wouldn't draft the guy because he played at Penn State.  Caldwell would NEVER say or think that.  Case in point - we drafted a WR from Penn State pretty high and it's not like they're known for developing good receivers.

 

To answer your other question:  Why haven't they created that many good defensive backs?  I'm not sure, maybe Joe Pa and his defense stressed lineman and LBs more, but I don't know the details.  I'm saying that it's not that unusual to find one specific position group from a big school and then realize that they haven't really developed that many good players from that position.

 

I also realize that Penn State has new leadership.  In that case alone, you can pretty much forget Joe Pa's years completely and just look at what O'Brien and Franklin (if that's his name) have done/will do.

 

If you scout the player and you like him a lot, it doesn't really matter where he came from.

 

You are likely going to find those players at the best college programs where they play the highest level of competition.

The logic is the same.

 

If he tends towards schools that produce players and away from those who don't, why wouldn't he apply that logic as it applies to positions?  If a school NEVER produces good players at that position, if he is playing the percentages, why would he go to that school looking for players at the position the school doesn't produce, unless there is  a complete aberration of a player?

 

Navy competes on the FBS level.  Would you expect Caldwell to spend much time scouting their players?

 

Why or why not?

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