It is, and the new CBA, which limits the amount of offseason contact teams can have with players, can exacerbate the plight, possibly lengthening development times.

 

I think coaching plays a huge role in player development.

 

But I think they have to be given the talent and the time to develop those players.  As a general rule, I don't think Bradley has been given enough of either.

 

I think Cyprien hasn't been as consistent and hasn't made the quantum leap as we had hoped.  I think Joeckel hasn't shown much at LT  Those are arguments against Bradley as developer of talent.

 

However, even Cecil Shorts made a quantum leap at WR under Sullivan.  I think the rookie WRs are each more talented than Shorts, and can make similar strides, which should make Bortles better.

 

Did he, though? Or did he just have a really bad rookie season?

 

We've seen little from him over the last 3 seasons to make me think he's going to ever be better than he was to start his second season.

 

We've got some good rookies right now that I hope will develop into real difference makers, but I'm not confident in Fisch and Bradley when it comes to making an impact in guys' trajectories.

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This is how I see it possible the negative perceptions about Bradley changes.

 

1.  Have a good off season in terms of player development.  Bortles, Lee, Robinson, Hurns, T. Smith, Cyprien, Joeckel, et al put in the work, get healthy, and improve in their crafts.  I think if there is scheme continuity, you will see improvement from most, if not all of these players.  They will be acting on instinct and just playing, as opposed to having their confidence and aggressiveness hamstrung by uncertainty.

 

2.  Have a good off season in terms of player acquisition.  Even though the perception is this past draft class was a good to great one, given how bare the cupboard here was when Gene Smith left, that one "good to great" draft isn't enough.  There are still considerable holes at least at RT (possibly LT), RB, TE, LB, and FS. 

 

Combined, these two things would serve to change the perceptions regarding Bradley .  By having a more talented and experienced roster, there will be fewer holes for opposing coaches to exploit, and maybe some negative matchups for them to adjust to.  At the start of games, the team won't look so overmatched, and in the second half, the team would not seem so out adjusted/coached.  Ultimately, this should result in more wins.

 

I agree with both points above (and for what it's worth appreciate educated dialogue on here).  We may not agree on everything but should be able to discuss respectfully.

 

One of my big problems with item #1 above is that that is exactly what I expected from last season to this season (but we oddly saw Cyp and Gratz regress).  I didn't expect this team to come out looking Super Bowl bound in game 1 but I did expect them to come out prepared and squeezing all they can out of the talent on the roster.  Other than the first half of the first game, the Jags looked grossly unprepared in the first half of the season (even on defense a lot of times).  I expected to look back on each game and say "well, we simply lost to a better team."  My problem was that in way too many games we had to honestly say "well, we were outcoached" and it makes it difficult to know if the opponent had better talent or not.  I was also disappointed with Bradley's poor in-game management (challenges, time outs, play calls, etc.).

 

So, bottom line, if the Jags were to fire him then I believe I can see why.  If they don't then I am absolutely on board hoping that we see that player development you're talking about.  I'm also hoping that this next season would reflect maturing in the coaching staff as well.  I just think they failed in far too many areas than any coaching staff should.  If they're all around next year then I want to be able to say "wow, they are coaching these dudes up!"

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It is, and the new CBA, which limits the amount of offseason contact teams can have with players, can exacerbate the plight, possibly lengthening development times.

 

I think coaching plays a huge role in player development.

 

But I think they have to be given the talent and the time to develop those players.  As a general rule, I don't think Bradley has been given enough of either.

 

I think Cyprien hasn't been as consistent and hasn't made the quantum leap as we had hoped.  I think Joeckel hasn't shown much at LT  Those are arguments against Bradley as developer of talent.

 

However, even Cecil Shorts made a quantum leap at WR under Sullivan.  I think the rookie WRs are each more talented than Shorts, and can make similar strides, which should make Bortles better.

 

Your point about the CBA is right on and I agree.  One thing I wondered though was that when I attended a training camp practice it was over 3 hours long and honestly, there was a LOT of standing around by a lot of players.  There was usually about 4 maybe 5 position group working at ones time meaning 5-10ish players were doing something at a given time.  That's only 1/5th of your starting roster working at one time while everyone else is standing in line for the drill.  Especially with the new CBA, you have to get all you can out of every practice and I just wonder if other teams are more efficient than the Jags?  I don't have anything to compare obviously but it seemed very inefficient to me and I just don't know how players can truly get that much better in that setting.  Not only did our team seem unprepared schematically to begin the season, the D got winded super early in games (even before they should have been tired as a result of a stagnant offense).  It seemed like the D got their wheels under them midway through the season or so.

 

One of the biggest rules of coaching sports is to maximize every players reps and I just didn't see that.  I remember others earlier in the preseason mentioned the same thing.

 

Thoughts?

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Your point about the CBA is right on and I agree.  One thing I wondered though was that when I attended a training camp practice it was over 3 hours long and honestly, there was a LOT of standing around by a lot of players.  There was usually about 4 maybe 5 position group working at ones time meaning 5-10ish players were doing something at a given time.  That's only 1/5th of your starting roster working at one time while everyone else is standing in line for the drill.  Especially with the new CBA, you have to get all you can out of every practice and I just wonder if other teams are more efficient than the Jags?  I don't have anything to compare obviously but it seemed very inefficient to me and I just don't know how players can truly get that much better in that setting.  Not only did our team seem unprepared schematically to begin the season, the D got winded super early in games (even before they should have been tired as a result of a stagnant offense).  It seemed like the D got their wheels under them midway through the season or so.

 

One of the biggest rules of coaching sports is to maximize every players reps and I just didn't see that.  I remember others earlier in the preseason mentioned the same thing.

 

Thoughts?

 

The assumption you're making is that more reps is better, or that they're not already using an optimal schedule given the abilities of players to endure the physical aspects of the practice.

 

Not that you're necessarily incorrect, but you have to recognize that assumption.

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Did he, though? Or did he just have a really bad rookie season?

 

We've seen little from him over the last 3 seasons to make me think he's going to ever be better than he was to start his second season.

 

We've got some good rookies right now that I hope will develop into real difference makers, but I'm not confident in Fisch and Bradley when it comes to making an impact in guys' trajectories.

 

Either way, the point is he made tremendous improvement from his rookie season to his next.

 

Now whether he plateaued to just an average player from being a horrible rookie is another discussion.  For the purposes of this discussion, we are just talking improvement from year one to year two.  This should not be construed as an endorsement of Shorts as a player overall.  If he somehow remained on the team, and the rookies made a similar improvement from year one to year two, Shorts would be the fourth best WR on the team.

 

I am left to wonder what Yarno's absence did to Joeckel's development.  I think Scelfo and Sullivan will have more impact on Bortles', Lee's, Robinson's and Hurns' development than Fisch or Bradley.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Too many people see with these:

 

welders goggles?

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I y'ams who I y'ams and thats all I y'ams...

It doesn't make any sense to predict records or levels of improvement before the offseason takes place. There's so many unknown variables, it doesn't make sense to predict much of anything at this point.

that's quite true and a valid point.... but what can I say? Rationality is often overrated...

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I y'ams who I y'ams and thats all I y'ams...

The assumption you're making is that more reps is better, or that they're not already using an optimal schedule given the abilities of players to endure the physical aspects of the practice.

 

Not that you're necessarily incorrect, but you have to recognize that assumption.

 

I agree it's an assumption...

 

I have no doubt the players could endure a higher/increased rep practice schedule.  Teams did it all the time back in the day (i.e. Camp Coughlin or any other tough football program).  The practice schedules nowadays are pathetic compared to a decade or 2 ago.

 

One caveat, the increased reps would have to be quality reps.  As long as coaches are correcting throughout practice then it's beneficial.

 

One other thought, the practices are ran at 1/2 to 3/4 speed.  The players don't truly get better until they play games because they don't practice full speed.  I just wonder if other teams practice closer to full speed.

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Too many people see with these:

 

I'm still laughing. Merry Christmas.

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It's a young roster with a nice number of clearly talented athletes. Should they realize their potential  - along with another good draft and FA period from Caldwell - then Prisco is possibly right. 

 

Just depends on how these young guys develop. Especially Blake. 

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It's a young roster with a nice number of clearly talented athletes. Should they realize their potential - along with another good draft and FA period from Caldwell - then Prisco is possibly right.


Just depends on how these young guys develop. Especially Blake.

A young roster with young guys making plays. A good thing for the future.

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;

;

We've been waiting for sure signs of improvement for several years and have been misled as the team always has these 8 game stretches where we're the laughing stock and last in any power poll, not that a power poll means anything. But it shows the kind of respect we're given in the big picture.

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No pain, no gain.

Changing coaches is just dumb.  Gus is building this team.  It's not just the wins but having the right culture.  Gus has built the culture and has sacrificed his early W/L record by doing an historic rebuild in pursuit of something sustainable.  Gus deserves the payoff, and when good things start to happen, Gus can take the team a lot higher than a new hire who does NOT have the locker room presence and trust. 

 

It's a lot like Tom Coughlin starting out in a muddy trailer near the Gator Bowl in 1994.  He did a lot of the muck work to get a foundation built for the team.  He created a very demanding culture and all the hard work paid off better than we could have imagined.  Jag fans need to appreciate what they have in Gus.  He is something of a rock star in the league with his positive style.  Let's find out where the ultimate manifestation of this culture will take us. 

 

Actually, when you think about it, TC's demanding culture ultimately laid the foundation for the 1999 AFC Championship Game halftime locker room brawl/meltdown that marked the peak of that era, 1.5 games short of a Super Bowl victory.  Gus and Dave will get us closer, IMO.  Give it time. 

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i honestly believe that after the terrible offensive line play, save maybe a surprise from Linder and a few flashes from Bowanko, Fisch completely handcuffed Bortles. When we played wide open the first half against the Eagles with...gosh, Henne, that was awesome, the aggressive down field throwing, letting Hurns run double moves, that's the offense we should see. The wheels came off when we gave up 1000 sacks to a Redskins defense. It seemed like after that game, along with Bortles making lots of rookie mistakes, that Fisch went into a dink and dunk offense, an offense that completely relayed on a running game and offensive line that could move the ball better. Bolster the offensive line and hopefully we see something that we haven't seen in a while; progression and not regression from our younger players and we could be on track. I think we got a little too excited during the Eagles game and most forget that Bortles was not intended to play this year. I still have faith in Caldwell and Co. The fact that Bradley can still keep our guys playing hard despite a terrible record is commendable, but if we don;t see improvement next year, then yes, let's panic. Until then, lets just get through the end of this season 

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"Expect for the best. Prepare for the worst. Capitalize on what comes."

 

Prisco was on the Frangie show today and seems convinced the Jags are building towards something special in a few years. I know some dislike Pete, but hearing him talk about all the young players we have and how they'll all grow up together is nice to hear.


I happen to agree with him and think once they add some veterans to the offense and some young defensive pass rushers, this team will look a whole lot different in the next couple of years.

 

I like Prisco. I won't knock him too bad for that statement. Anything is possible in this leauge. To me, it all starts with how well the defense continues to play and whether or not they can keep Bortles on his feet and provide him with a consistent running game to keep the defenders honest and further away from the LOS to open more plays down the field. Very confident with the receivers right now. Would like to see another pass catching TE added to his weapons of disposal in a few months via the draft as well.

 

But that's the mold folks. Smashmouth defense, steady running game, and the big passing plays when you need them and consistency on third down  is what wins championships STILL.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."