Why is he not playing? One of the players who has looked solid and now he is on the bench. Use him, Fish.

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This was a weird decision - Harbor had actually been a mildly pleasant surprise, now demoted to third string.  

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Why is he not playing? One of the players who has looked solid and now he is on the bench. Use him, Fish.

He played. Both Nic Jacobs and Harbor played. Jacobs probably got a couple more snaps because he's the better blocker of the two and Harbor has been getting killed in run and pass protection.


Snap counts:


Harbor - 6 snaps

Jacob - 8 snaps


Now I would like to see Harbor run a couple plays a game that has been working for him and throw in a few seam passes from double TE formations but other than that there's really nothing to see here.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Harbor is a liability when asked to block

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Harbor is a liability when asked to block

Preaching to the choir. And considering our protection issues the past couple of games I can see why they would elect to plug in the better blocking TE for a couple more plays. Again its not like he was inactive on game day. He played two less snaps than the other TE.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

We use the middle of the field in our passing game as much as a fry cook uses their GED... You'd think they'd try to utilize our TEs a bit more to help relieve some pressure on the rookie QB and WRs

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Preaching to the choir. And considering our protection issues the past couple of games I can see why they would elect to plug in the better blocking TE for a couple more plays. Again its not like he was inactive on game day. He played two less snaps than the other TE.

Well that's one way of dealing with it. Another way is to get your QB an easy outlet in the middle of the field with a fairly large target like Harbor...

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We use the middle of the field in our passing game as much as a fry cook uses their GED... You'd think they'd try to utilize our TEs a bit more to help relieve some pressure on the rookie QB and WRs

Maybe if our rookie QB would use his hot reads that you falsely claim he doesn't have and conveniently choose to acknowledge, then we might be able to beat some of these pressure looks.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Well that's one way of dealing with it. Another way is to get your QB an easy outlet in the middle of the field with a fairly large target like Harbor...

Wouldn't it make more sense to look for an even larger target in Marcedes? Who as I recall was open on a few passes downfield and played the entire game but didn't get the looks. Its OK to be critical, just as long as you understand there's plenty of blame to be shared.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Maybe if our rookie QB would use his hot reads that you falsely claim he doesn't have and conveniently choose to acknowledge, then we might be able to beat some of these pressure looks.

Lol. Don't be hurt, knarnn. I am sending your cookie! Also go back and reread my statement. I never said we don't have hot reads in that other thread, I asked when have we done them before. Big difference in terms of context... You need to stop reading meaning into things that are not within a posters comments.


Also you only provided one example from a prior game... Thus it would seem that blitz recognition and how to best handle them is something our coaching staff is having a hard time implementing on Sundays...

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Wouldn't it make more sense to look for an even larger target in Marcedes? Who as I recall was open on a few passes downfield and played the entire game but didn't get the looks. Its OK to be critical, just as long as you understand there's plenty of blame to be shared.

The topic is harbor... But irregardless we are not attacking the middle of the field. Lewis had been out most of the season, I was referring to harbor in regards to how sometimes getting a TE out into a route were the QB can use him as a security outlet right in the middle of the field would potentially be a better idea then ignoring the middle of the field for an extra blocker.


I feel like I should also mention I know Lewis was playing in the clot game, in order to stop you from misreading anything in that regard. You have a tendency to jump to unfounded conclusions with some of the things I've written lately. Maybe I'll buy you a "jump to conclusions" welcome mat to send you along with that cookie. :-)

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Lol. Don't be hurt, knarnn. I am sending your cookie! Also go back and retread my statement. I never said we don't have hot reads in that other thread, I asked when have we done them before. Big difference in terms of context... You need to stop reading meaning into things that are not within a posters comments.


Also you only provided one example from a prior game... Thus it would seem that blitz recognition and how to best handle them is something our coaching staff is having a hard time implementing on Sundays...

Lol. Lets not hijack this thread as well so if you would like to continue this topic feel free to respond to my response to you in that thread. FYI though...blitz recognition is something that's done on the field. Between the O-Line and the QB. The 15 seconds alotted to Fisch to call in a play to Blake (before the defense is set) isn't going to help Blake with blitz recognition. Again, its OK to be critical, as long as you know to point the finger in the right direction.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Lol. Lets not hijack this thread as well so if you would like to continue this topic feel free to respond to my response to you in that thread. FYI though...blitz recognition is something that's done on the field. Between the O-Line and the QB. The 15 seconds alotted to Fisch to call in a play to Blake (before the defense is set) isn't going to help Blake with blitz recognition. Again, its OK to be critical, as long as you know to point the finger in the right direction.

Ok, lol!

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The topic is harbor... But irregardless we are not attacking the middle of the field. Lewis had been out most of the season, I was referring to harbor in regards to how sometimes getting a TE out into a route were the QB can use him as a security outlet right in the middle of the field would potentially be a better idea then ignoring the middle of the field for an extra blocker.


I feel like I should also mention I know Lewis was playing in the clot game, in order to stop you from misreading anything in that regard. You have a tendency to jump to unfounded conclusions with some of the things I've written lately. Maybe I'll buy you a "jump to conclusions" welcome mat to send you along with that cookie. :-)

The topic is Harbor. But my point in regards to the bolded is that that option was available to him in Mercedes. Who happened to be open on a handful of plays. So what happened? The play calling was fine. Was it a protection issue? Was it just Blake not seeing it?

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

The topic is Harbor. But my point in regards to the bolded is that that option was available to him in Mercedes. Who happened to be open on a handful of plays. So what happened? The play calling was fine. Was it a protection issue? Was it just Blake not seeing it?

Maybe I wasn't paying especially good attention this Sunday. But I really don't think we used Lewis all that much this Sunday... How many targets did he have? We'll I guess I'll check really quick

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Lewis had 2 -3 targets, 1 reception. And minus 5 yards... So again, it just seems like our coaches are really using the middle of the field or our TEs in the passing game to catch footballs

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Lewis had 2 -3 targets, 1 reception. And minus 5 yards... So again, it just seems like our coaches are really using the middle of the field or our TEs in the passing game to catch footballs

You mentioned using a TE as a security outlet. Your words not mines. So in essence, Lewis should have been the 3rd read at best.(and even still he was open a few times in the middle of the field, feel free to read back thru the gameday thread) Common sense would tell you that his targets wouldn't be as high as it should if he were the first or second option in the progressions. So again, was it a protection issue to where he couldn't get to his 3rd option? What it Blake failing to read his progressions that were available?

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

You mentioned using a TE as a security outlet. Your words not mines. So in essence, Lewis should have been the 3rd read at best.(and even still he was open a few times in the middle of the field, feel free to read back thru the gameday thread) Common sense would tell you that his targets wouldn't be as high as it should if he were the first or second option in the progressions. So again, was it a protection issue to where he couldn't get to his 3rd option? What it Blake failing to read his progressions that were available?

Happy Thanksgiving!


So it should be prefaced that I'm not a coach and I have no inside information on what fish is trying to do with the offense. We're just dudes talking football... I don't think I'm smarter than anyone else in the Jungle, and I try for the most part to respect everyone here...


To me there are multiple layers to this discussion. I'll start with this: from games I watch where the TE is used better than the jags, the read to the TE or even the RB in the middle of the field is when the QB is sensing that the pass rush is getting through. Usually the QB looks at the primary and then quickly realizes he's gotta dump it to his outlet. So in that sense, they go through one read and then recognize that it's not there and he's gotta get rid of the ball ASAP.


Most successful offenses have the outlet available in the middle of the field. I just don't see us attacking the middle like other offenses do. The idea that we must keep extra blockers in is a chicken/egg argument to me. In my point of view, if you slip the TE or even the RB into the middle it forces the defense to keep one of the blitzers on that outlet receiver, and if they don't you have an open outlet.

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Jedd Fisch

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I totally agree with this. It seems as though most of the other NFL teams have a pass-catching weapon at the TE spot. Heck, some teams have 2 TE's as downfield threats. I get that Lewis is a solid blocker, but I'd much rather have a TE that is always a catching threat, and one that doesn't look so clumsy when he runs after the catch (Lewis). TE's are becoming so predominant in today's NFL offenses and we seem to be behind the curve on this...this is a pass-happy league and we have got to seriously upgrade this position. I get that the Jag fans are devoted to Lewis because of his tenure and character, but when you look at most teams, they have superior offensive threats that we simply don't have.

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