Yeah he hasn't looked the same, it's been discouraging but we've seen enough of the gunslinger mentality from Blake through college and his early outings as a pro to lead me to believe it's not him that's the problem.  

 

Fisch and Babich both could and need to be upgraded but I don't want to derail this thread with that topic.

 

I agree with you that I am not worried about / nor do I think the problem of the past 6 Quarters is with Bortles at the root. The root of Bortles struggles the past 6 Q is coming from coaching/ playcalling, IMO. 

 

My fear lies with knowing that just because Bortles is good and isn't the main issue - doesn't mean he cannot be "ruined" by neutering the gunslinger mentality out of him, because that can happen. 

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I agree with you that I am not worried about / nor do I think the problem of the past 6 Quarters is with Bortles at the root. The root of Bortles struggles the past 6 Q is coming from coaching/ playcalling, IMO. 

 

My fear lies with knowing that just because Bortles is good and isn't the main issue - doesn't mean he cannot be "ruined" by neutering the gunslinger mentality out of him, because that can happen. 

 

People can say what they want but Fisch's offense sucks.  I'm convinced it's not a fit at the pro level.  I hate this offense and I hope we get a change.  It would stink that Bortles would have to learn a new offense but I don't think Fisch's offense is going to work out.  The play calling sucks, the plays themselves aren't effective, talent or no talent.  The screens, runs with Gerhart outside, all that crap needs to go.

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People can say what they want but Fisch's offense sucks.  I'm convinced it's not a fit at the pro level.  I hate this offense and I hope we get a change.  It would stink that Bortles would have to learn a new offense but I don't think Fisch's offense is going to work out.  The play calling sucks, the plays themselves aren't effective, talent or no talent.  The screens, runs with Gerhart outside, all that crap needs to go.

 

I'd rather have Bortles learn a new offense under a competent/ legit NFL Offensive Coordinator, than be ruined with the "continuity" of this current one. 

 

And...lets not act like others haven't survived an early OC change.....Troy Aikman wound up being a pretty good QB once Jimmy Johnson installed Norv Turner as OC in 1991. I forget who his initial OC was under Johnson in 1989-1990, but I do know that that offense was bad....real bad, like Fisch here, bad. 

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I'd rather have Bortles learn a new offense under a competent/ legit NFL Offensive Coordinator, than be ruined with the "continuity" of this current one. 

 

And...lets not act like others haven't survived an early OC change.....Troy Aikman wound up being a pretty good QB once Jimmy Johnson installed Norv Turner as OC in 1991. I forget who his initial OC was under Johnson in 1989-1990, but I do know that that offense was bad....real bad, like Fisch here, bad. 

 

It is not a good idea to compare us to a team with a lot of veteran HOF players on the roster.

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It is not a good idea to compare us to a team with a lot of veteran HOF players on the roster.

 

Those Dallas players became HOF'ers...Norv Turner and his offense had a big hand in the success of Aikman/ Irvin/ Smith and the other HOF's on that offense. 

 

They weren't doing [BAD WORD REMOVED] with Jimmy Johnson's first choice as Offensive Coordinator (1989-90). It was only after he hired Norv Turner (1991) and installed him as OC that they started to consistently improve/ gel on offense. 

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I'd rather have Bortles learn a new offense under a competent/ legit NFL Offensive Coordinator, than be ruined with the "continuity" of this current one.


And...lets not act like others haven't survived an early OC change.....Troy Aikman wound up being a pretty good QB once Jimmy Johnson installed Norv Turner as OC in 1991. I forget who his initial OC was under Johnson in 1989-1990, but I do know that that offense was bad....real bad, like Fisch here, bad.

Oh I'm saying the same thing. I would make a change now if we could. I don't like Fisch's offense and never really did. I lightened on my complaints,gave it time, but to me it's clear it isn't going to work.


Same with the defense and Babich. Whoever is in charge of the soft defense we've seen needs to be shown the door.

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But there is one thing none of you have considered . . .

 

If Bradley fires Fisch, will Hurns want to stay in Jacksonville? I am not too worried about this, but losing him in four years is possible andf I would hate that.

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But there is one thing none of you have considered . . .

 

If Bradley fires Fisch, will Hurns want to stay in Jacksonville?....

 

 

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Oh I'm saying the same thing. I would make a change now if we could. I don't like Fisch's offense and never really did. I lightened on my complaints,gave it time, but to me it's clear it isn't going to work.


Same with the defense and Babich. Whoever is in charge of the soft defense we've seen needs to be shown the door.

We disagree on Fisch. (Or at least I want to give him some time with better play along the line and more experience from the WR/QB) And that's fine. I see your side of it. Maybe he's to blame, I just don't think it's a certainty yet and I like some of the more creative things he's done and wonder how that would look as the offense grows up a bit. 

 

However - as each week passes I wonder more and more why this zone has to be so incredibly easy to pick apart and why we have to play so much of it. Babich is definitely on my radar in the blame game.  I'm not ready to throw him under the bus just yet, but I have deep suspicions about his role in the debacle that has been our back 7 this season. 

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We disagree on Fisch. (Or at least I want to give him some time with better play along the line and more experience from the WR/QB) And that's fine. I see your side of it. Maybe he's to blame, I just don't think it's a certainty yet and I like some of the more creative things he's done and wonder how that would look as the offense grows up a bit. 

 

 

Funny how other OC's in precarious situations don't need all this time to show something....

 

St Louis lost its starter and backup and is now rolling with Austin Davis, an undrafted FA and their offense hasn't been neutered. They still called and continue to call deep plays and surprise surprise, Austin Davis has thrown 6 TD passes in his last 2 games. 

 

Fisch is turning Bortles into a game manager these last 6 quarters and it is disgusting to watch. 

 

If you have a race car you don't drive it like a Corolla. 

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We disagree on Fisch. (Or at least I want to give him some time with better play along the line and more experience from the WR/QB) And that's fine. I see your side of it. Maybe he's to blame, I just don't think it's a certainty yet and I like some of the more creative things he's done and wonder how that would look as the offense grows up a bit. 

 

However - as each week passes I wonder more and more why this zone has to be so incredibly easy to pick apart and why we have to play so much of it. Babich is definitely on my radar in the blame game.  I'm not ready to throw him under the bus just yet, but I have deep suspicions about his role in the debacle that has been our back 7 this season. 

I really appreciate your patient, level headed responses. 

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Funny how other OC's in precarious situations don't need all this time to show something....

 

St Louis lost its starter and backup and is now rolling with Austin Davis, an undrafted FA and their offense hasn't been neutered. They still called and continue to call deep plays and surprise surprise, Austin Davis has thrown 6 TD passes in his last 2 games. 

 

Fisch is turning Bortles into a game manager these last 6 quarters and it is disgusting to watch. 

 

If you have a race car you don't drive it like a Corolla. 

The offense isn't nuetered, it's not executing.  The coaching staff has constantly been saying they want to be more aggressive.

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Funny how other OC's in precarious situations don't need all this time to show something....


St Louis lost its starter and backup and is now rolling with Austin Davis, an undrafted FA and their offense hasn't been neutered. They still called and continue to call deep plays and surprise surprise, Austin Davis has thrown 6 TD passes in his last 2 games.


Fisch is turning Bortles into a game manager these last 6 quarters and it is disgusting to watch.


If you have a race car you don't drive it like a Corolla.

That guy running the offense in St.Louis is Brian Schottenheimer, a coach I remember you being vehemently against.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

The offense isn't nuetered, it's not executing.  The coaching staff has constantly been saying they want to be more aggressive.

 

I have eyes. The offense is attempting too many short [BAD WORD REMOVED] passes and not attempting deeper passes with any regularity these past 6 quarters. Its opposite to what they were doing with Bortles at QB preceding it. Its pretty much very Henne like. 

 

That guy running the offense in St.Louis is Brian Schottenheimer, a coach I remember you being vehemently against.

 

And I still don't like the guy....but even HE is able to stay aggressive with a situation like that. Pointing out a situation doesn't mean I am all of a sudden a huge Schott fan. But he gets credit for the last 2 weeks for his team's offense. 

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But he was the Bortles we know 

 

I'm not trying to give you a hard time at all here - but what the hell is "the Bortles we know"?  

 

He's played in 2.5 games and is quite obviously still learning not just the nuances of the position but some of the fundamentals as well.  I think it's silly to think you know what to expect from him on a weekly basis at this point.  

 

There is no "Bortles we know."   You seem to have unrealistic expectations. 

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That guy running the offense in St.Louis is Brian Schottenheimer, a coach I remember you being vehemently against.

You're right, i remember the bashing well!  It sucks when TMDs spider web gets all wrapped up, lol.

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I have eyes. The offense is attempting too many short [BAD WORD REMOVED] passes and not attempting deeper passes with any regularity these past 6 quarters. Its opposite to what they were doing with Bortles at QB preceding it. Its pretty much very Henne like. 

 

Your eyes know what the play call was?  Let me answer: no they don't.  /conversation.

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This is the same coordinator and the same offense that you keep referring to Bortles earlier success.  Could it be the D coordinators have got tape now?

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Funny how other OC's in precarious situations don't need all this time to show something....

 

 

They aren't starting 6 rookies. 

 

Race car is a horrible example.  More like an unpredictable young race horse that could stop to graze or jump the fence and run off just as easily as win the race. 

 

And I can't see what's unreasonable about giving a young OC 2 seasons to prove it  --- especially with all of this youth - a QB change -- and a line that is both young and obviously struggling to figure out how to run block in a ZBS.  If the offense is sputtering at the end of this year and I'm still scratching my head on third down three times a game, then we'll talk. 

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I'm not trying to give you a hard time at all here - but what the hell is "the Bortles we know"?  

 

He's played in 2.5 games and is quite obviously still learning not just the nuances of the position but some of the fundamentals as well.  I think it's silly to think you know what to expect from him on a weekly basis at this point.  

 

There is no "Bortles we know."   You seem to have unrealistic expectations. 

 

The Bortles we know is the 9.0+ YPA guy he was his last year in college as well as every Jaguars appearance up until halftime of the San Diego game.....

 

thats the Bortles we know...

 

Thats 6 appearances as a Jaguar and over 10 as a Knight. 

 

You're right, i remember the bashing well!  It sucks when TMDs spider web gets all wrapped up, lol.

 

Except nothing is getting all wrapped up. I still am not a Schott fan. Doesn't mean I can't cite that example of his offense the past 2 games. 

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