Haha, its just a phrase. We've both been honest I think, lol. 

 

I disagree with you though in that why wouldn't you expect the offense for Fisch now to be reminiscent of the offense he ran in Miami. It looks pretty similar to me. People can't have it both ways - they claim things like "Hurns is doing so well now because its the same offense Fisch ran when the 2 were together in Miami", and then you claim above, the opposite - that you don't see the offense as some facsimile of it. 

 

The Hurns thing is really quite simple to differentiate.  He had a jump on others with terminology and some of the concepts.  It doesn't mean the playbook is a facsimile. I guess I'm giving a professional enough credit to know what to change and what can carry over between college and the pros. Maybe too much according to most posters around here lately.  And - again - I think the stuff that resembles a college playbook decreases when half of the offense isn't only months removed from a college offense themselves. Limiting mistakes has to be a theme with a group this young. 

 

I realize I have the unpopular opinion on Fisch these days. Most seem to be down on him even if only moderately so. I'm just optimistic he'll open it up when the players are capable. Wish we didn't have to wait to be certain, but we'll see… 

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(Also - this is a generalization - but I've found that Madden football has made everyone and their sister overly critical of OCs league wide and I prefer a little patience) 

 

Never played Madden. I come from the Tecmo Bowl era of the QB running backwards to evade the pass rush and then launching 80 yard TD bombs. I've just never liked the Shanahan/Kubiak school of clip blocking and horizontal play calling. Joeckel and Paztor both have received clipping penalties in recent weeks. I hope the refs continue to penalize that garbage. It reminds me of Flozell the Hotel's cheap cut block on Brackens that ruined his career.  

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

Never played Madden. I come from the Tecmo Bowl era of the QB running backwards to evade the pass rush and then launching 80 yard TD bombs. I've just never liked the Shanahan/Kubiak school of clip blocking and horizontal play calling. Joeckel and Paztor both have received clipping penalties in recent weeks. I hope the refs continue to penalize that garbage. It reminds me of Flozell the Hotel's cheap cut block on Brackens that ruined his career.  

 Gotcha.  Madden was just retiring from coaching in the NFL when I started watching football - so I understand where you are coming from - I think. 

 

I despise the cut block aspect of this zone blocking scheme as well, but after waiting this long to see if they could run it effectively - I guess i'm just happy to see 100 yd rushing games again. That line between a cut-block and a clip is dangerous and intentional clips are despicable.  I certainly hate seeing a Jaguar player called for it. 

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The Hurns thing is really quite simple to differentiate.  He had a jump on others with terminology and some of the concepts.  It doesn't mean the playbook is a facsimile. I guess I'm giving a professional enough credit to know what to change and what can carry over between college and the pros. Maybe too much according to most posters around here lately.  And - again - I think the stuff that resembles a college playbook decreases when half of the offense isn't only months removed from a college offense themselves. Limiting mistakes has to be a theme with a group this young. 

 

I realize I have the unpopular opinion on Fisch these days. Most seem to be down on him even if only moderately so. I'm just optimistic he'll open it up when the players are capable. Wish we didn't have to wait to be certain, but we'll see… 

 

My point wasn't so much that the offenses of Fisch's now is a carbon copy of his at Miami - as I don't think it is. However, I do believe and see, that the bulk philosophy of his offense that he utilized there as well as a good portion of the playcalling has been taken with him here and applied. I'm sure that some was left there, and some new stuff was also brought in. But overall, Fisch's offense here, is mostly Fisch's offense from Miami and before. 

 

He's not alone, either. Even back in history, Tom Coughlin likely took his offensive philosophy from college to the pro's. (granted he also had a pro background). Did Chip Kelly not take a large part of his offensive philosophy from college to the pro's? Bobby Petrino? (ok bad example, lol),, The Buffalo Bills current coach?  Same thing. 

 

But as you said, only time will ultimately prove this out one way or another. In the meantime, we can only hope that the Jags offensive output can increase. I'd be happy with even one or 2 high point totals between now and seasons end. That would at least give me hope that the offense can do that on a more consistent basis in the future. Has Fisch's offense here even topped 30 once? Maybe vs Cleveland last year? I know they've not even topped 20 too many times. 

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I'm gonna let this one ride after this post because it's going in circles.  

 

As stated before - I gave him the lack of talent pass last season and I'm giving him the rookie QB and receiver pass this year.

 

 I'm not about to do the research - but I bet you'd be hard pressed to find an offensive juggernaut in the archives that started at least 5 rookies and 3 second year players. That affords Fisch more leeway in my mind than it does for many of you. 

 

I'll just leave it at that. 

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I know I'm sort of stating the obvious here, as Fisch has been under a decent amount of scrutiny during his tenure here in Jax. I might be going out on a limb by saying this, but I like Fisch and have in no way given up on him. As bone headed as a lot of his playcalls are, he has the potential to get extremely creative and crafty, as we've seen with some of his more notable plays ( i.e Ace Sanders throwing a TD pass, CHAD HENNE successfully running an option, etc.)

 

However, it seems like he tries too hard to be creative at times, like when i see us running really complicated screens and naked bootlegs, along with confusing short routes all over the field. I know that this type of game-plan is designed to compensate for less than spectacular pass protection, but I feel like we would see a lot more success as an offense if we went back to power O runs , and more basic passing plays, not all this tricky stuff.

 

Tell me what you guys think

I think this man got hired to coach a professional football team and is getting paid big bucks to do it. Are you? So who's the 'bonehead'?

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I y'ams who I y'ams and thats all I y'ams...

I think this man got hired to coach a professional football team and is getting paid big bucks to do it. Are you? So who's the 'bonehead'?

 

This.

 

It makes me laugh when casuals who haven't even played a down of football in their life try to talk football like they know better than a professional coach.

 

Fisch will be fine.

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I think Bridgewater at 3 is better value than Mack at 3, yes.

 

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Clown.
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I realize I have the unpopular opinion on Fisch these days. Most seem to be down on him even if only moderately so. I'm just optimistic he'll open it up when the players are capable. Wish we didn't have to wait to be certain, but we'll see… 

 

I actually like Fisch a lot. I also think it's really difficult to evaluate any part of the offense right now. We fans just don't get enough of the picture to know what we're looking at.

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Yes, I see your point about the pressure limiting the attempts. I'm just not sure I buy that since its very rare in this league for a QB to be able to drop back without pressure. However if those types of passes are what your QB does best, I'd think you keep trying them. You're not going to be successful in every attempt. But I don't think it helps anything by scrapping them and intentionally playing close to the vest football. That just helps the defense have an easier time defending, as we saw both in the first half this past Sunday and at times throughout the past 6 weeks. The intentional conservative passing didn't help curtail INT chances either. If anything there wound up being more passes that hit Cinci defenders right in the hands on those attempts. And a short pass INT is much more dangerous to be taken to the house for a pick 6 or to favorable field position than an INT down the field. An INT on a long attempt usually mirrors the outcome of a punt. 

 

I'm also not sure I agree with your other point about the narrative of Bortles being better with intermediate and deep passes being misguided and not fact based. In watching his play in college and now his short time as a pro he not only appears to be more comfortable with those types of passes, but his mechanics and delivery seem to favor those passes as well. For a QB to be a good short passer he needs a quick, compact release. While Blake's release isn't to the point where its Leftwich-like, there is somewhat of a wind up which I don't think favors the slant or other short passes unless wide open. 

 

I guess what I am saying overall, is that I think that Bortles skill set is not a perfect match for the type of offense Fisch wants to run. Not that Bortles can't run it, but that I believe an offense under a philosophy more like Norv Turner would run, would be a much better fit for Blake's skill set/ attributes. While we likely can't get Turner at this point since he's up in Minnesota, I'm sure that there are other offensive minds out there that run a similar philosophy offense. 

 

 

I'd actually like to see Fisch call more passing plays to the end zone once inside the 30. It seems a lot of the Jags passing TD seem to be designed to be caught outside the end zone and then have YAC yards get them there. Now this one could be due to the fact that we probably lack a true red zone target but I think Robinson and Hurns have enough size/ physicality to be that in the time being. 

 

 

To be fair, it's only of recent that Hurns started showing this. You would expect a 4 year veteran WR to display this however. I am in agreement there. Shorts is good on some routes but the ones calling for the WR to come back and fight for the ball - not so much. Its probably up to Fisch though, to know which personnel are better fits for certain play calls/ pass routes though. Why keep calling a certain route in game action for Shorts when you know and have seen through past experience that he doesn't execute it well? 

I'd like to see more running plays because Bortles tends to force the ball once he gets inside the 30, hence the INT's...

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"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia."
;
Charles Schultz
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"The harder I work, the luckier I get."
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T-Shirt at District Wrestling Meet.

I wouldn't want him to uncomplicate anything, let the rookies figure it out, the future right now is more important than the present

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A good loser is a good loser

I wouldn't want him to uncomplicate anything, let the rookies figure it out, the future right now is more important than the present

exactly!

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I y'ams who I y'ams and thats all I y'ams...

This.


It makes me laugh when casuals who haven't even played a down of football in their life try to talk football like they know better than a professional coach.


Fisch will be fine.

I think that this argument is highly fallacious, as you are essentially saying, "he is a professional coach, ergo he will be a good professional coach."


However, I too believe that the jury is still out on Fisch, and I enjoy his creativity overall.

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This.

 

It makes me laugh when casuals who haven't even played a down of football in their life try to talk football like they know better than a professional coach.

 

Fisch will be fine.

 

Haven't played a down of football in my life huh? you know me so well. I'm not gonna waste my time explaining that I actually have played and been around football almost my whole life, that's for a different discussion. Just because someone is a professional, doesn't mean they're a good professional. That's why your argument as well as the dude you're agreeing with completely sucks

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I'm a rude bigoted idiot who disagrees with anything anyone has to say. you're wrong I'm right, I know everything

 

 

 

basically what that post said to me

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my feeling are hurt and I've no one to cry to about it..... please hold me!!!

 

basically what that post said to me

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I y'ams who I y'ams and thats all I y'ams...

basically what that post said to me

 

touche. at least you played along with it

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I think that this argument is highly fallacious, as you are essentially saying, "he is a professional coach, ergo he will be a good professional coach."

 

 

The argument is that people who've never been in a single coaches meeting or group meeting at the pro level aren't qualified to judge the competency of those who spend every day in them. Which means that fan's opinions of the complexity of an offense aren't worth the pixels they're posted with.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I actually like Fisch a lot. I also think it's really difficult to evaluate any part of the offense right now. We fans just don't get enough of the picture to know what we're looking at.

 

I agree with this statement.  We like to think we know whats going on, but we don't and management can never let us in on exactly what its plans are.  i mean, think of it, they would LIKE to win this year, but probably are looking at things in a bigger picture.

 

I think Fisch is doing a good job and will be here a while.

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“It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.”
― Albert Camus

I think there are a lot of rookies playing like rookies. I think it will get better, and until half of the offense isn't composed of rookies, I won't evaluate the play calling. It's a waste of my time.

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What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.







 

Evaluating the offense right now would be like asking a student driver how well a corvette handles

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A good loser is a good loser