Every team that has participated in the draft, in one way or another, has drafted based on need. BAP is a myth, that continues to live on long after Genius Gene ' tenure here. Will it die?

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If your a team that's stacked like SF, Sea, NE it can certainly still apply.

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If your a team that's stacked like SF, Sea, NE it can certainly still apply.

They drafted based on need too.

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The Patriots needed a QB?  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Every team that has participated in the draft, in one way or another, has drafted based on need. BAP is a myth, that continues to live on long after Genius Gene ' tenure here. Will it die?

You are kinda stealing my thunder here.


I posed the question to the board earlier about whether the Jaguars got good value with the picks from the first two days. The overwhelming sentiment is that the Jaguars got good value with the picks from rounds 1-3. Based upon what I see on the board after rounds 4-5, that sentiment doesn't appear to have changed.


Among those who have lauded the value of the picks in this draft were the staunchest BAP advocates over the past few years, who argued their concept of BAP is a superior method of drafting to needs based drafting because needs based drafting ignores value.


Granted, our enthusiasm over this draft class aside, these guys still have to go and produce.


But if our initial thoughts and the initial assessments of the media are accurate without the benefit of hindsight, let this draft shatter the misconception that needs based drafting is incapable of maximizing value.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

You are kinda stealing my thunder here.


I posed the question to the board earlier about whether the Jaguars got good value with the picks from the first two days. The overwhelming sentiment is that the Jaguars got good value with the picks from rounds 1-3. Based upon what I see on the board after rounds 4-5, that sentiment doesn't appear to have changed.


Among those who have lauded the value of the picks in this draft were the staunchest BAP advocates over the past few years, who argued their concept of BAP is a superior method of drafting to needs based drafting because needs based drafting ignores value.


Granted, our enthusiasm over this draft class aside, these guys still have to go and produce.


But if our initial thoughts and the initial assessments of the media are accurate without the benefit of hindsight, let this draft shatter the misconception that needs based drafting is incapable of maximizing value.

 

The Jags (mostly) drafted BAP. Bortles and the two OL were need picks, and Bortles might have been BAP. At least that's what Caldwell claimed.


 

While the draft also filled needs, we happened to have a lot of needs. Aaron Colvin was a value pick, not a need. The 2nd WR wasn't a particular need, and the draft's best center was available there. Marqise Lee was a need but also the BAP at that slot. Telvin Smith was clearly BAP, with Yankey available and a much more pressing need on OL. DE was a need, Chris Smith may or may not fit there but he was a value pick.


 

If anything, this supports the BAP model. At least so far as picking BAP gets you good grades. The real proof will depend on how there players turn out.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

The Patriots needed a QB?  

Well Tom Brady will likely retire after his contract is up in 2 years and they wanted a guy to sit behind him who is good enough to take over. Mallet isn't that guy so yeah they did.

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The Jags (mostly) drafted BAP. Bortles and the two OL were need picks, and Bortles might have been BAP. At least that's what Caldwell claimed.


 
While the draft also filled needs, we happened to have a lot of needs. Aaron Colvin was a value pick, not a need. The 2nd WR wasn't a particular need, and the draft's best center was available there. Marqise Lee was a need but also the BAP at that slot. Telvin Smith was clearly BAP, with Yankey available and a much more pressing need on OL. DE was a need, Chris Smith may or may not fit there but he was a value pick.


 
If anything, this supports the BAP model. At least so far as picking BAP gets you good grades. The real proof will depend on how there players turn out.

All of the picks...certainly those in the first three rounds...were need picks.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

The Jags (mostly) drafted BAP. Bortles and the two OL were need picks, and Bortles might have been BAP. At least that's what Caldwell claimed.


 

While the draft also filled needs, we happened to have a lot of needs. Aaron Colvin was a value pick, not a need. The 2nd WR wasn't a particular need, and the draft's best center was available there. Marqise Lee was a need but also the BAP at that slot. Telvin Smith was clearly BAP, with Yankey available and a much more pressing need on OL. DE was a need, Chris Smith may or may not fit there but he was a value pick.


 

If anything, this supports the BAP model. At least so far as picking BAP gets you good grades. The real proof will depend on how there players turn out.

 

Next time your are in the draft room, take a picture for us.

 

About 10 people know whether these picks were need based or BAP and none of them post here.

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Just to be different, Bortles.

Every team that has participated in the draft, in one way or another, has drafted based on need. BAP is a myth, that continues to live on long after Genius Gene ' tenure here. Will it die?

 

How does that make it a "myth"? What will never die is everyone's inability to comprehend BAP philosophy.

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guys this is so simple, yet everyone makes it so hard....

 

its always been, and always will be best available player at a position of need

 

ALWAYS

 

just end it there

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Next time your are in the draft room, take a picture for us.

 

About 10 people know whether these picks were need based or BAP and none of them post here.

 

I don't know who was BAP on the Jags board, but I can get a pretty good feel as to need. If a player is picked at a position where there is no need, it is NOT a need pick. Presumably it is a BAP pick. What would the 3rd choice be, a guy picked because Caldwell thinks he'd look good in the team photo?


 

With Shorts, Sanders, Brown, and Lee, WR was no longer a need when Robinson was picked. Center was, and the best center in the draft was still available.


 

CB was not a need when Colvin was picked, and Colvin is not expected to start this year. Several RBs and FSs (needs) were taken shortly afterwards.


 

LB was not a need when Telvin Smith was picked, and Smith is not expected to start this year. OL was a need and Yankey was available.


 

That's three players who were definitely not need picks, but were likely BAP picks based on pre draft value boards. I have no evidence that they were BAP on the Jags board, but it's a logical conclusion.


 

Four other picks, Bortles, Lee, Storm Johnson, and Chris Smith could also have been BAP based on pre draft value boards, but they also fit needs. Of course the Jags had plenty of needs. Caldwell claimed Bortles was #1 on our board.


 

The two OL were clearly needs, not BAP.


 

I see this as a mostly BAP draft. It's at least partly a BAP draft.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

This draft took advantage of falling talent (BAP), and the wide variety of needs on the team.

 

Great mix, and I'd hope both camps were satisfied.  Next year should be be a better indicator of Caldwell's true nature.

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Always thought BAP was the wrong way to go.

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BAP is a need because if you have a need then the best available player is the best player to fill that need. The difference btween picks are each spot is splitting hairs in most instances so getting the guy who will be in a position to contribute from day one is the BAP

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Matt Rogers, Jag Fan Since Day 1

Do Whatever you can to help those around you

1. How do you know this will be a good draft? Come back in 3 years to make this topic.

2. The WRs were rated higher than the spot we got them at, making them both bap and need, in fact you could argue that most of our picks were essentially BAP, other than maybe Bortles, which the team seems to think will be incredible and Gus fell in love with so he probably was BAP for us.

3. The world isn't black and white. You rate the players into tiers (gamebreaker, very good, average, etc) and choose based on those tiers what your team needs. You would not pass up a game breaking WR for an average RB, but you would pass up a game breaking WR for a game breaking RB if you need a RB.

4. This is one team. Houston didnt take a Qb first, they took a DE even though they have Watt. I guess that means BAP is the king of the world and we can put need based drafting in the grave, right?

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"Snow and cold may have stopped the armies of Hitler and Napoleon, but they won't slow down the Jaguars. "
;

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-Steve Sabol

until we have a solid roster, we don't have the luxury of BAP.

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until we have a solid roster, we don't have the luxury of BAP. need.

 

Fixed that for you.


 

If your team is one player away, then it would be foolish to not draft that position. == NEED


If your team has lots of holes, then draft the BAPs. There will be places on the roster for all of them.


 

Note that I just called Houston 'foolish.'  I stand by that statement.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I don't know who was BAP on the Jags board, but I can get a pretty good feel as to need. If a player is picked at a position where there is no need, it is NOT a need pick. Presumably it is a BAP pick. What would the 3rd choice be, a guy picked because Caldwell thinks he'd look good in the team photo?


 

With Shorts, Sanders, Brown, and Lee, WR was no longer a need when Robinson was picked. Center was, and the best center in the draft was still available.


 

CB was not a need when Colvin was picked, and Colvin is not expected to start this year. Several RBs and FSs (needs) were taken shortly afterwards.


 

LB was not a need when Telvin Smith was picked, and Smith is not expected to start this year. OL was a need and Yankey was available.


 

That's three players who were definitely not need picks, but were likely BAP picks based on pre draft value boards. I have no evidence that they were BAP on the Jags board, but it's a logical conclusion.


 

Four other picks, Bortles, Lee, Storm Johnson, and Chris Smith could also have been BAP based on pre draft value boards, but they also fit needs. Of course the Jags had plenty of needs. Caldwell claimed Bortles was #1 on our board.


 

The two OL were clearly needs, not BAP.


 

I see this as a mostly BAP draft. It's at least partly a BAP draft.

 

You dont know any of this.

 

How on earth would you know if the OL picks were need? Because you haven't heard of them?

 

Robinson is a big X WR. We didn't have one when he was picked. With Blackmon done, that was a big need.

 

Apart from Gratz, our corners are all late rounders or journeymen. I'd say we need help at CB.

 

Outside of Poz, who is old, our LBs are marginal at best. Tevin Smith will have to be really bad to not get any game time this year.

 

Only a very small number of people know who was picked more out of need and who was picked because they were ranked higher than anyone else. You are not one of those people.

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Just to be different, Bortles.

I. for one, have completely changed my position.   I used to say, rank the players 1-300 and draft the top player available when your pick comes up.   But it's waaaay more complicated than that.   It's about building a TEAM.   And that means, don't take a player that doesn't fit your scheme, and don't take a player unless you like him personally and you think he will fit your locker room culture.  And then, tilt your choice towards your needs, if you can.  If you adhere to those rules, there will be BAPs that you pass over in order to take scheme fit and personality fit. 

 

And this is where a lot of us go astray in our mock drafts.    Hypothetically, let's say when our pick comes up, our biggest need is Center, and the best Center is on the board, and the "draft experts" have him rated higher than any other player left on the board.   And let's suppose we don't take him; we take someone else.   This is where a lot of people get upset and frustrated.   But if you think about it, we may have passed on him for scheme fit, or for personality.   We can look at all the youtube videos we want, but we aren't in the meeting room when he meets the coaches and scouts, and we don't get to interview people who know him personally, his teammates and college coaches, and we might overlook the fact that he doesn't fit a zone blocking scheme or like we run, or whatever other system requirements we have.  

 

If you listen to the conference calls for the three defensive players we took, they all have that personality that Gus is looking for.  Talkative, confident, and they all bonded with the coaching staff at the Senior Bowl.   Gus wants a team with personality.   Those three guys have a lot of personality. 

 

So, BAP or needs-based drafting?   No, it's on a much higher plane than that.   And it's something we cannot assess prior to the draft, and it means we will not understand the pick sometimes.  

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