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knarnn · 01-11-2014, 10:45 AM

Per rotoworld:

Quote:Jaguars GM Dave Caldwell indicated the team is pleased with 2013 sixth-round FS Josh Evans returning as a 2014 starter. Caldwell specifically said upgrading free safety will not be an offseason priority. Evans finished his rookie year with 58 tackles and no turnovers forced among 11 starts, grading out 78th among 86 qualifiers in Pro Football Focus' safety ratings. Fellow rookie SS Johnathan Cyprien graded 84th, but Jacksonville is betting on internal improvement for both in 2014.

SOURCE: FLORIDA TIMES UNION

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

SuperJville · 01-11-2014, 10:47 AM

Aaand that is why those grades are completely pointless.

Boselli talked about something similar on the radio. He's like "after watching film... if cyprien is ranked so low and has so many negatives scores, PLEASE GET MORE OF THOSE KIND OF GUYS"

jags_r_bake · 01-11-2014, 10:55 AM

i remember after the game against the rams, they credited robert quinn with 2 sacks and something like 5 or 6 QB pressures. well, he had no sacks, which right away made me wonder how they come up with that stuff.

another note is that earl thomas was rated near the bottom on their rankings last year, if i remember correctly. might have been 2011, but either way, it really means nothing.

~~The Mad Dog~~ · 01-11-2014, 10:57 AM

Quote:Aaand that is why those grades are completely pointless.

Boselli talked about something similar on the radio. He's like "after watching film... if cyprien is ranked so low and has so many negatives scores, PLEASE GET MORE OF THOSE KIND OF GUYS"

More of those kind of guys??...

Is this teal kool aid drinking?

Cyp started 15 games and totaled 1 INT, I QB sack and 2 FF.

Evans totaled a big goose-egg across the board in those 3 categories.

If you (and Boselli) want to feel positive about those 2, well fine....but those lines illustrate a lack of big play ability/ production from both. At the very least the jury is still out on both. Does Cyp play with energy? Sure.....but I mean, that kinda should be expected, No?.....You've got to get better big play ability from your Safety position than we got this year. Much better.

SuperJville · 01-11-2014, 11:00 AM

Quote:More of those kind of guys??...

Is this teal kool aid drinking?

Cyp started 15 games and totaled 1 INT, I QB sack and 2 FF.

Evans totaled a big goose-egg across the board in those 3 categories.

If you (and Boselli) want to feel positive about those 2, well fine....but those lines illustrate a lack of big play ability/ production from both. At the very least the jury is still out on both.

Evans is just a guy.

Cyprien is a very solid safety. Similar to a Donovin Darius. May not be a perennial pro bowler, but I think if he continues to grow like he should, SS will be a strength on this team.

And if you want to feel negative about a guy like Cyprien, that's fine - it doesn't really come as a surprise to me. Why don't you go see what the big bad Texans are doing and cry yourself to sleep again because you're so scared of them.

Jinjo · 01-11-2014, 11:08 AM

They use tv tape to grade players. Their defensive back ratings are a joke.

~~The Mad Dog~~ · 01-11-2014, 11:18 AM

Quote:Evans is just a guy.

Cyprien is a very solid safety. Similar to a Donovin Darius. May not be a perennial pro bowler, but I think if he continues to grow like he should, SS will be a strength on this team.

And if you want to feel negative about a guy like Cyprien, that's fine - it doesn't really come as a surprise to me. Why don't you go see what the big bad Texans are doing and cry yourself to sleep again because you're so scared of them.

Feeling negative? - more like stating facts. The Jags need to get more production/ a lot more production from both Safety spots. Cyp was drafted 33rd. If numbers like he produced in 2013 turn out to be the norm, the selection will be a bust.

Redsky39 · 01-11-2014, 11:23 AM

Good lord, some people don't understand the position of Strong Safety.

OT: Cyprien is a very good player, and will only get better.

~~The Mad Dog~~ · 01-11-2014, 11:30 AM

Quote:Good lord, some people don't understand the position of Strong Safety.

OT: Cyprien is a very good player, and will only get better.

Yeah, I guess some don't. Some seem to think its a position where you can have a lack of big plays from and everything's fine & dandy. Are you suggesting Cyp didn't have breakdowns in coverage, either? Or missed tackles/ bad angles taken allowing more yardage than could have on plays? Because he did. The way you talk, you'd think we had a PB'er back there. Even if you don't get the INT's from the spot, you need more in the other 2 categories of FF & QB sack than Cyp gave....and those low numbers were despite facing some really mediocre opponents/ bad QB play from weeks 9-15. The jury is still out on him.

Cyprien is far from "very good" yet. Could he get there? Sure. Far from there at current.

Redsky39 · 01-11-2014, 11:35 AM

Quote:Yeah, I guess some don't. Some seem to think its a position where you can have a lack of big plays from and everything's fine & dandy. Are you suggesting Cyp didn't have breakdowns in coverage, either? Because he did. The way you talk, you'd think we had a PB'er back there. Even if you don't get the INT's from the spot, you need more in the other 2 categories of FF & QB sack than Cyp gave....and those low numbers were despite facing some really mediocre opponents/ bad QB play from weeks 9-15. The jury is still out on him.

Cyprien is far from "very good" yet. Could he get there? Sure. Far from there at current.

I don't judge off of fancy stats. Cyprien is an absolute force in stopping the run, and that's what an SS is supposed to do anyway. Second leading tackler? Anyone?

The stats you want to see are good indicators, but by that logic, Reggie Nelson was a good player.

~~The Mad Dog~~ · 01-11-2014, 11:38 AM

Quote:I don't judge off of fancy stats. Cyprien is an absolute force in stopping the run, and that's what an SS is supposed to do anyway. Second leading tackler? Anyone?

The stats you want to see are good indicators, but by that logic, Reggie Nelson was a good player.

"Force in stopping the run"? Seriously?....

I think this is hyperbole. He made an occasional nice play vs the run here and there, but lets not go overboard.

Reggie Nelson is a FS.

SuperJville · 01-11-2014, 11:41 AM

yawn, TMD is back and worse than ever

Dakota · 01-11-2014, 11:43 AM

I'm good with the ratings. They were a couple of rookies. CSIII was probably rated as the 500th best WR following his rookie season. What did it mean? Exactly squat.

Either they take a similar path as CSIII and improve next season, or I would assume that replacements will be on the way. That's how it works.

Nothing really to see here.

What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

~~The Mad Dog~~ · 01-11-2014, 11:44 AM

Quote:yawn, TMD is back and worse than ever

Oh I'm sorry, you'd rather have unicorns & rainbows....

Look, I praise Jags players I actually think are legit, like Blackmon and Joeckel for instance.

I think the jury is still out on Cyprien and that he's not nearly as good as some of you seem to think he is. I'm allowed to have that opinion.

Redsky39 · 01-11-2014, 11:44 AM

Quote:"Force in stopping the run"? Seriously?....

I think this is hyperbole. He made an occasional nice play vs the run here and there, but lets not go overboard.

Reggie Nelson is a FS.

He is.. Second leading tackler. He's made rookie mistakes, but when he's at the top of his game he's very good.

My point exactly. FS's usually are the ones who get INT's, while SS's are usually responsible for being the 8th man in the box along with covering TE's. They usually aren't the type's who get INT's.

FYI, just because a player isn't getting INT's, doesn't mean they are bad. Often times QB's avoid great covering players. Not putting Cyprien in that league yet, but I'm just saying.

~~The Mad Dog~~ · 01-11-2014, 11:47 AM

Quote:He is.. Second leading tackler. He's made rookie mistakes, but when he's at the top of his game he's very good.

My point exactly. FS's usually are the ones who get INT's, while SS's are usually responsible for being the 8th man in the box along with covering TE's. They usually aren't the type's who get INT's.

FYI, just because a player isn't getting INT's, doesn't mean they are bad. Often times QB's avoid great covering players. Not putting Cyprien in that league yet, but I'm just saying.

don't just focus on the INT. I dont' expect him to get like 8 or 10, but 3 or 4 for the season would be nice. The FF & QB sack totals should be higher, too, especially FF - with all the opportunities he had this year in tackles made on the RB's since we were usually behind in games. He needs to force more fumbles.

KYjaggy · 01-11-2014, 11:50 AM

Cyp started off really, really bad...and finished pretty darn good. Arrow firmly pointed up for him.

Redsky39 · 01-11-2014, 11:51 AM

Quote:don't just focus on the INT. I dont' expect him to get like 8 or 10, but 3 or 4 for the season would be nice. The FF & QB sack totals should be higher, too, especially FF - with all the opportunities he had this year in tackles made on the RB's since we were usually behind in games. He needs to force more fumbles.

I agree with this. If he can improve in those areas along with his on-field intelligence, he'll be a very good player.

I jumped the gun on saying he was great, that's my mistake.

SuperJville · 01-11-2014, 12:05 PM

Quote:Oh I'm sorry, you'd rather have unicorns & rainbows....

Look, I praise Jags players I actually think are legit, like Blackmon and Joeckel for instance.

I think the jury is still out on Cyprien and that he's not nearly as good as some of you seem to think he is. I'm allowed to have that opinion.

Cyprien showed more than Joeckel. Joeckel struggled at RT and played well for like 1 quarter at LT... so if anything, the jury is still out of him also.

The jury is out for all our rookies. That doesn't mean they're bad players or ranked 85th overall.

I don't see where you see rainbows in any of my posts about them. I think Cyprien will become a Donovin Darius type of player if he continues to improve. Watch his first 2 games and his last 2 games and tell me you don't see a lot of improvement.

It's just another example of TMD getting his panties in a wad if he sees real Jaguars fans actually question a ridiculous website that quantifies and ranks DBs.

also LOL at him praising Luke Joeckel over Cyprien. The ONLY reason he's praising Luke Joeckel is because he agreed with that pick. He is literally patting himself on the pack. What a shocker.

~~The Mad Dog~~ · 01-11-2014, 12:11 PM

Joeckel struggled because he was out of position at RT, IMO. Per all reports in practices, and the limited game action, Joeckel looked back to his normal high-caliber player self when installed back at OLT.

As for questioning the "ridiculous" website's ranking....just as long as same website is considered "ridiculous" in the future should any Jaguars player be ranked high by them. I don't want to see any citing of them as reference, then.