A friend of mine committed suicide earlier this year.  Well I say friend, but more of an acquaintance.  The day before he did it, he showed no signs of it. He seemed happy.  He was looking forward to things.  His wife and child saw no signs that he was going to do it.  Then he texted a note just before jumping to his death (giving the police no time to respond).  There's not always signs.  Some people hide it.  Not everyone shows it.  I'm sure that's the case in China especially.  Remember that culture in the U.S. isn't the same as culture everywhere else.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

You're making assumptions based on the same things... but it's okay for you because you're only assuming that the guy is silently crazy and just opted to lob himself off a balcony because it sounded like fun. All we do know is that the guy jumped off a balcony after his girlfriend insisted on continuing shopping. There wouldn't be a discussion to be had without assumptions.

If she knew he was depressed she should have been a little bit more sensitive to the situation than "no, you Christmas hating skinflint. Now, hold my shoes while I go get even more shoes" especially at a time that is also proven to be stressful even for mentally stable people.

And you are assuming she is the worse person on the planet and the guy is just her helpless victim.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

A friend of mine committed suicide earlier this year.  Well I say friend, but more of an acquaintance.  The day before he did it, he showed no signs of it. He seemed happy.  He was looking forward to things.  His wife and child saw no signs that he was going to do it.  Then he texted a note just before jumping to his death (giving the police no time to respond).  There's not always signs.  Some people hide it.  Not everyone shows it.  I'm sure that's the case in China especially.  Remember that culture in the U.S. isn't the same as culture everywhere else.  

 

I'm sorry for your loss. I never intended to make it seem as though they all show signs, just that it is a statistical probability that he did. My dad very nearly attempted suicide but we (well, my mom, I was about 6 at the time) were able to get him the help he needed before he acted on it.

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You've also made the assumption that the woman has no culpability in this, again based on a complete lack of information. 

 

Earlier in this thread you've stated that the only one who has any blame for the man's death is the man himself.  I'm not so sure about that.

Unless she pushed him, the only person to blame for him jumping is himself.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

And you are assuming she is the worse person on the planet and the guy is just her helpless victim.

 

No I'm not. I've stated numerous times that the guy was obviously mentally unstable. I just don't assume that she was a totally innocent little princess like you did at the very beginning of this thread. In fact, there is more evidence based strictly on the story to support my view than yours. Based strictly on the story this woman's actions immediately preceded his decision to jump. She was, based on the story alone, the "stresser" that set him off.

 

Unless she pushed him, the only person to blame for him jumping is himself.

 

That's a disgustingly ignorant and simplistic way of looking at this.

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That's a disgustingly ignorant and simplistic way of looking at this.

 

It's true, though.  She had no idea what would set him off.  If someone kills themselves after they get fired and had showed signs of depression, is it the fault of the person who fired them?

 

 You might say that she should have gotten him to seek help.  We don't know if she did or not.  I don't think she is responsible for him getting help though.  Especially considering China has a terrible Mental Health Care system with far too few physicians available.  Not to mention that the suicide rate in China is nearly twice that of the United States (per 100,000).  China only has 1.46 psychiatrist per 100,000 people.  Ideally there should be 1 psychiatrist per 10,000 people I believe. Which is about a tenth of what there needs to be.

 

Should she have treated him better?  Absolutely.  Does that make her partly to blame? I don't think it does.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

It's true, though.  She had no idea what would set him off.  If someone kills themselves after they get fired and had showed signs of depression, is it the fault of the person who fired them?

 

 You might say that she should have gotten him to seek help.  We don't know if she did or not.  I don't think she is responsible for him getting help though.  Especially considering China has a terrible Mental Health Care system with far too few physicians available.  Not to mention that the suicide rate in China is nearly twice that of the United States (per 100,000).  China only has 1.46 psychiatrist per 100,000 people.  Ideally there should be 1 psychiatrist per 10,000 people I believe. Which is about a tenth of what there needs to be.

 

Should she have treated him better?  Absolutely.  Does that make her partly to blame? I don't think it does.  

 

I disagree. Even if she couldn't have actually gotten him the help he needed, she could have avoided being part (don't interpret this as "the worst person in the world", bchbunnie4) of the problem. The firing thing is different than a loved one treating the person like nothing more than a pack mule. After five hours of shopping and too many bags to carry, wanting to go home is reasonable and someone insisting that you stay and claiming that you hate Christmas is likely to at least anger even sane people.

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No I'm not. I've stated numerous times that the guy was obviously mentally unstable. I just don't assume that she was a totally innocent little princess like you did at the very beginning of this thread. In fact, there is more evidence based strictly on the story to support my view than yours. Based strictly on the story this woman's actions immediately preceded his decision to jump. She was, based on the story alone, the "stresser" that set him off.

 


 

That's a disgustingly ignorant and simplistic way of looking at this.

Since we're gonna play the assumption game...how do you know that she isn't also mentally ill with some sort of OCD type disorder that involves an intense urge to shop? Calling her a [BLEEP] because she can't control her disorder is disgustingly ignorant of you, don't you think?

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

Since we're gonna play the assumption game...how do you know that she isn't also mentally ill with some sort of OCD type disorder that involves an intense urge to shop? Calling her a [BAD WORD REMOVED] because she can't control her disorder is disgustingly ignorant of you, don't you think?

 

Out of curiosity, what "assumption game" did I play in the quoted post? I stuck only to what was within the story. She's a [BAD WORD REMOVED] because she treated him like crap, not because she wanted to shop.

 

EDIT: He apparently cared enough about her to go shopping for five hours (that's an assumption, happy?), she should care enough about him to heed his request to go home after those five hours.

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Out of curiosity, what "assumption game" did I play in the quoted post? I stuck only to what was within the story. She's a [BAD WORD REMOVED] because she treated him like crap, not because she wanted to shop.

You've been assuming this whole thread that she knew he was mentally unstable because it's "noticeable", no?



She is a complete [BLEEP]...that still doesn't make it her fault that the guy killed himself.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

I disagree. Even if she couldn't have actually gotten him the help he needed, she could have avoided being part (don't interpret this as "the worst person in the world", bchbunnie4) of the problem. The firing thing is different than a loved one treating the person like nothing more than a pack mule. After five hours of shopping and too many bags to carry, wanting to go home is reasonable and someone insisting that you stay and claiming that you hate Christmas is likely to at least anger even sane people.

 

And I disagree.  How is she to know what's going to set him off?  Even assuming she saw him needing help, that he went shopping with her for 5 hours seems to suggest that he wasn't going to kill himself over going to one more store.  


It's reasonable to want to go home.  It's also reasonable to expect someone to decide to go home instead of kill themselves when they are angry.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

You've been assuming this whole thread that she knew he was mentally unstable because it's "noticeable", no?



She is a complete [BAD WORD REMOVED]...that still doesn't make it her fault that the guy killed himself.

 

I said it's a statistical probability (which it is). I never stated that she was anything (except not helping the situation - which is true regardless of whether or not she knew he was mentally unstable) because of it. Just that she was a [BAD WORD REMOVED] because she treated him like crap. I've also NEVER SAID THAT IT IS HER FAULT. What part of that do you not understand? Not helping the situation != her fault.

 

 

And I disagree.  How is she to know what's going to set him off?  Even assuming she saw him needing help, that he went shopping with her for 5 hours seems to suggest that he wasn't going to kill himself over going to one more store.  


It's reasonable to want to go home.  It's also reasonable to expect someone to decide to go home instead of kill themselves when they are angry.

 

Fair enough. That said, I still stick to the fact that she didn't help the situation (my disagreement was based on the premise that she knew, which was based on your paragraph about getting him help and was isolated to that premise) which has been my argument through this whole thread.

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I'm guessing it wasn't the shopping trip that made him decide to jump to his death.  It's the fact that absolutely ANYTHING would have been better than having to hang around the person he was shopping with, and this trip was the last straw.

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Since we're gonna play the assumption game...how do you know that she isn't also mentally ill with some sort of OCD type disorder that involves an intense urge to shop? Calling her a [BAD WORD REMOVED] because she can't control her disorder is disgustingly ignorant of you, don't you think?

So SHE's the victim.

 

Gotcha.

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Fair enough. That said, I still stick to the fact that she didn't help the situation (my disagreement was on the premise that she knew, which was based on your paragraph about getting him help and was isolated to that premise) which has been my argument through this whole thread.

No, she didn't help the situation.  I think we've agreed on that part.  But not helping the situation doesn't put any blame on her.  Ultimately, it was his choice to commit suicide. 

 

I'm guessing it wasn't the shopping trip that made him decide to jump to his death.  It's the fact that absolutely ANYTHING would have been better than having to hang around the person he was shopping with, and this trip was the last straw.

 

If ANYTHING would have been better, he'd have dropped the bags and just left the store.  She couldn't force him to stay, nor could she force him to do anything.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I'm not saying that it wasn't. I'm saying that she influenced it. Your first response gave off the impression that you felt there was absolutely nothing wrong with her and everything wrong with him. People do crazy things when stressed. 5 hours of shoe shopping with a [BAD WORD REMOVED] would stress me out, [BAD WORD REMOVED] me off, and drive me insane. If she hadn't acted the way she did, chances are he wouldn't have jumped.

  

I said it's a statistical probability (which it is). I never stated that she was anything (except not helping the situation - which is true regardless of whether or not she knew he was mentally unstable) because of it. Just that she was a [BAD WORD REMOVED] because she treated him like crap. I've also NEVER SAID THAT IT IS HER FAULT. What part of that do you not understand? Not helping the situation != her fault.

 

 

Fair enough. That said, I still stick to the fact that she didn't help the situation (my disagreement was based on the premise that she knew, which was based on your paragraph about getting him help and was isolated to that premise) which has been my argument through this whole thread.

Excuse me for being confused by you saying that if she hadn't acted the way she did that he probably wouldn't have jumped. I don't know why I would think you were blaming her.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

No, she didn't help the situation.  I think we've agreed on that part.  But not helping the situation doesn't put any blame on her.  Ultimately, it was his choice to commit suicide. 

 

 

If ANYTHING would have been better, he'd have dropped the bags and just left the store.  She couldn't force him to stay, nor could she force him to do anything.

 

Sorry, I'm a bit annoyed by the fact that bchbunnie4 keeps insisting that I'm blaming her, which I'm not.

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Excuse me for being confused by you saying that if she hadn't acted the way she did that he probably wouldn't have jumped. I don't know why I would think you were blaming her.

That's not blaming, that's stating a fact. Had she said "okay, let's go home" the guy wouldn't have jumped. At least not then and there. This wasn't a planned suicide, this was a "snapped" moment.

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So SHE's the victim.

 

Gotcha.

That's what you got out of that?




Allllrighty then.

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What in the Wide Wide World of Sports is agoin' on here???

 

If ANYTHING would have been better, he'd have dropped the bags and just left the store.  She couldn't force him to stay, nor could she force him to do anything.

No, if anything would have been better, YOU'd have dropped the bags and just left the store.  And spare me the "yeah, because I'm sane and he's got a screw loose" argument.  You haven't walked a mall mile in his shoes.  Neither one of us have any idea what drove the man to do it, but I have sympathy for a guy that obviously has an inconsiderate partner.

 

I also have sympathy for the girl, because she's gonna have to live with this the rest of her life.  But maybe she could, y'know, learn something as she moves on?  Or perhaps everyone should just tell her she's OK, it was ALLLLLL him.

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