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Deacon · 12-04-2013, 02:20 PM

So I did a little digging into the monies paid to these two players and their respective performances so far this season. Granted, it's a little skewed because Knighton got a two-year contract and Marks got a one-year, but it looks like Marks is the better acquisition for the team. Still, I'll let you be the judge of that.

-- Edit -- I worked in Roy Miller's Contract-Performance numbers as well and listed them below Marks'. Thanks to SpeedyG!

Contract talk. The contract info is based off of Spotrac.com's Player Salary page:

Knighton -

Two yrs / $4,500,000



Signing Bonus $500,000



Average Salary $2,250,000



Guaranteed: $500,000

Marks -

One yr / $1,500,000



Signing Bonus $200,000



Average Salary $1,500,000



Guaranteed: $1,500,000

Miller -



Contract: Two yrs / $4,500,000



Signing Bonus $650,000



Average Salary $2,250,000



Guaranteed: $650,000

Marks got more guaranteed money, but that was because his contract length required it to be this way. Marks' Cap hit is bigger, but again, the one-year contract is at work there. With Miller's contract, it's a much easier comparison. Miller has a higher signing bonus, but his overall contract value is lower.

Now on to Performance. This is broken down into per game performance based off of Pro Football Reference.com's Player Statistics page:

Knighton -

Sk Tkl Ast

0.0 1 1

0.0 1 2

0.0 0 1

0.0 0 1



0.0 0 1

1.0 1 1

1.0 2 0

1.0 2 0

0.0 0 2

0.0 3 1

0.0 2 0



Totals: Three sacks, 11 tackles, 10 assisted tackles.

Marks -

Sk Tkl Ast

0.0 3 0

0.0 2 0

0.0 1 1

0.0 1 0

1.0 4 0

0.0 1 0

1.0 3 0

0.0 1 0

0.0 1 0

0.0 1 0

0.0 1 0

1.0 3 0

Totals: Three sacks, 22 tackles, one assisted tackles.

Miller - (You have to scroll down to 2013 if you click on Miller's link)



Sk Tkl Ast

0.0 2 0

0.0 3 0

0.0 0 1

0.0 2 0

0.0 1 0

0.0 1 0



0.0 2 0

0.0 0 2

0.0 2 0

0.0 1 1

0.0 2 1

Totals: Zero sacks, 16 tackles, five assisted tackles.

This is where it gets interesting. While their sack production is the same, Marks is producing a tackle in at least every game. To me, this is really surprising although I have nothing to base it on since I'm not sure how many DT's in the game register consistent production in this manner. Regardless, Marks is making his presence felt in every single game, even when the team was getting blown out.

Now, the argument can be made that these two players are asked to play the DT position differently than one another, but Marks' consistency is definitely something that the team can make use of going forward. Now with Miller added to the mix, the on-off production seems like it may be less condemning. But it's still noteworthy that Miller has only had two games of no listed tackles but he also has one of those "no statistical impact" types as well.

Which player would you rather have on the roster?

I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

Jags32250 · 12-04-2013, 02:22 PM

How does Marks only have 1 assist, can that be right?

Anyway, i'd take Marks all day everyday coming from the eye test.

**NYC4jags** · 12-04-2013, 02:35 PM

Marks, please. He good.

Deacon · 12-04-2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:How does Marks only have 1 assist, can that be right?

Anyway, i'd take Marks all day everyday coming from the eye test.

That really jumped out to me too. As well as Knighton having a game with no statistical impact in game five. That Marks only had one assist probably implies something, I'm just not sharp enough to pick it out.

Quote:Marks, please. He good.

No joke. I really wish there was a convenient way to compare his consistent production to other Defensive Tackles. I mean, are there lots of Defensive Tackles that post a tackle in every game?

I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

SpeedyG · 12-04-2013, 02:45 PM

There's a couple of problems with your comparison. First, is that while Knighton's "total" money looks larger, Marks actually has a larger guaranteed salary. Potroast doesn't actually pull ahead money wise until next year, but it gets skewed again because Marks would have earned a new contract. How much will his play this year cost the Jaguars next year if they wish to resign him?

The 2nd problem is that these two players have very different roles. You're just not going to see Knighton get the stats that Marks is getting because he's not asked to disrupt and get into the backfield. If you wanted an actual legitimate comparison, the comparison is not with Marks....but with Roy Miller. He was the guy touted to replace Potroast. Roy Miller got more guaranteed money than Potroast also, though not as much as Marks.In fact, his salary structure is pretty similar to Knighton's.

Miller has 0 sacks, 21 total tackles, 16 solo.

Teal Curtain · 12-04-2013, 02:48 PM

The stats look very similar but to me it seems like Marks gets a more consistent pass rush from the DT spot than Pot Roast does and plays with a higher motor. You should throw in the batted ball or passes defended stat in there as well, gives a better idea of the total amount of plays disrupted.

Deacon · 12-04-2013, 02:49 PM

Quote:There's a couple of problems with your comparison. First, is that while Knighton's "total" money looks larger, Marks actually has a larger guaranteed salary. Potroast doesn't actually pull ahead money wise until next year, but it gets skewed again because Marks would have earned a new contract. How much will his play this year cost the Jaguars next year if they wish to resign him?

The 2nd problem is that these two players have very different roles. You're just not going to see Knighton get the stats that Marks is getting because he's not asked to disrupt and get into the backfield. If you wanted an actual legitimate comparison, the comparison is not with Marks....but with Roy Miller. He was the guy touted to replace Potroast. Roy Miller got more guaranteed money than Potroast also, though not as much as Marks.In fact, his salary structure is pretty similar to Knighton's.

Miller has 0 sacks, 21 total tackles, 16 solo.

I thought about that as soon as I hit the "Post" button since Miller is more of the Nose Tackle guy. I'll work up Miller's Contract-Performance numbers in a minute and edit them into the original post.

I agree with you on the contract language and I listed that in the top of the post. It's hard to compare the two, although I did like the flexibility that Marks' contract gave the team if he proved to not be a long-term guy.

I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

HURRICANE!!! · 12-04-2013, 02:52 PM

DTs are so hard to compare because the impact of a good DE could help the player greatly. See Booger McFarland .... great when he had Sapp .... terrible without.

jagforlife85 · 12-04-2013, 02:52 PM

Terrance is the only player I think DC might regret losing in FA, Denver is stout against the run and particularly up the middle, TN has a lot to do with that. Now with that said, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to find an effective space eating DT, no harm no foul.

D6 · 12-04-2013, 02:53 PM

Quote:The stats look very similar but to me it seems like Marks gets a more consistent pass rush from the DT spot than Pot Roast does and plays with a higher motor. You should throw in the batted ball or passes defended stat in there as well, gives a better idea of the total amount of plays disrupted.

Related to what you mentioned, with Sen'Derrick Marks, excessive weight and conditioning aren't concerns. With Pot Roast, one never knows if he's going to control his weight and be in the type of football shape necessary to come close to playing to his potential. If Pot Roast was more reliable, he could easily still be in Jacksonville as part of the Jaguars long term plans.

The Eleventh Doctor · 12-04-2013, 02:53 PM

Some stats left out:

Passes Defended:

Knighton: 0

Marks: 8

Fumbles Recovered:

Knighton: 1

Marks: 2

I was wrong about Trent Baalke.

Kane · 12-04-2013, 02:56 PM

Could you Imagine Marks lined up next to Knighton?

that'd been cool.

Teal Curtain · 12-04-2013, 02:59 PM

Forced Fumbles

Knighton: 0

Marks: 2

SpeedyG · 12-04-2013, 03:05 PM

Quote:Terrance is the only player I think DC might regret losing in FA, Denver is stout against the run and particularly up the middle, TN has a lot to do with that. Now with that said, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to find an effective space eating DT, no harm no foul.

Miller has actually played better in recent weeks, which is no coincidence that our run D has improved as well. Early in the season though, this was easily in Potroast's favor.

Jags32250 · 12-04-2013, 03:08 PM

Quote:Some stats left out:

Passes Defended:

Knighton: 0

Marks: 8

Fumbles Recovered:

Knighton: 1

Marks: 2

Quote:Forced Fumbles

Knighton: 0

Marks: 2

Slam dunk!

Deacon · 12-04-2013, 03:10 PM

Quote:Miller has actually played better in recent weeks, which is no coincidence that our run D has improved as well. Early in the season though, this was easily in Potroast's favor.

I agree with this completely. I was not impressed at all with Miller's play early on, but it seems as if he is fitting into his role much better of late.

I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

Deacon · 12-04-2013, 03:10 PM

Quote:Some stats left out:

Passes Defended:

Knighton: 0

Marks: 8

Fumbles Recovered:

Knighton: 1

Marks: 2

Quote:Forced Fumbles

Knighton: 0

Marks: 2

Thanks for these!

I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

**NYC4jags** · 12-04-2013, 03:11 PM

Quote:Miller has actually played better in recent weeks, which is no coincidence that our run D has improved as well. Early in the season though, this was easily in Potroast's favor.

This. ^ And, yes, the comparison really should be Miller vs. Knighton, but it is nice to dig a little deeper into how productive Marks has been on a "prove-it" contract.

He's proving it quite well. His agent must be chomping at the bit for offseason negotiations to begin. He seems really happy in Jax and imagine Caldwell will make it well worth his while to stick around another 4 years.

Deacon · 12-04-2013, 03:14 PM

I added in Miller's "numbers" to the original post. Seems like he and Knighton are kind of a wash but there may be some statistics that I'm not considering in there.

I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

Geen · 12-04-2013, 04:03 PM

I'd take Knighton over Miller easily, IMO.

Marks has been playing as I hoped he would. Every time we play those stupid titans he seemed to stand out to me.

I just hope we don't go overboard and give him some gigantic contract and it end up being like a Marcedes Lewis type deal. (Few seasons of mediocrity followed by one really nice season, big contract, then back to mediocrity)

Marks is definitely a player I want us to keep though.

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