So let's say we kept Daryl.

Now what?

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I know! That's why I saying they should have signed Geno and Daryl, both to short term cheap deals! Are yall not getting this? He didn't cost a lot of money, and it's a short term deal! We all knew he wasn't gonna be here much longer! I don't hate that they signed Geno, I still think he might turn out alright. It bums me out they let Daryl go when they could have had him on a cheap short term deal.

I should have stated that differently.  Not re-signing Daryl was  technically a mistake in my opinion - but i  totally get why they didn't bring him back. 

 

The point is - I don't think Geno was meant to be a "new Daryl"  - just someone to fill a role until they can draft the LB's of the future.   They didn't want to gamble on Daryl's health and age - and can forgive that despite them actually losing that gamble this season.  It was a calculated risk and I'm sure Caldwell has kicked himself a bit on that one. 

 

When the new regime is thinking longterm and crafting the roster with 2015 and beyond in mind - it's easy to see why they didn't bring him back.  Still  - it sucks to see him doing well elsewhere while our OLBs struggle to stop the run.  

 

(I have a feeling we are more in agreement on this than has been apparent so far...)

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So let's say we kept Daryl.

Now what?

We are 1-7. Still going to get the 1st pick, still worst team in the NFL, but slightly more competitive. Enough so that we don't get beaten by 10 or more points every single game. And the fans are satisfied that we will get a franchise QB, without the danger of going 0-16. 

That's what.

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I should have stated that differently.  Not re-signing Daryl was  technically a mistake in my opinion - but i  totally get why they didn't bring him back. 

 

The point is - I don't think Geno was meant to be a "new Daryl"  - just someone to fill a role until they can draft the LB's of the future.   They didn't want to gamble on Daryl's health and age - and can forgive that despite them actually losing that gamble this season.  It was a calculated risk and I'm sure Caldwell has kicked himself a bit on that one. 

 

When the new regime is thinking longterm and crafting the roster with 2015 and beyond in mind - it's easy to see why they didn't bring him back.  Still  - it sucks to see him doing well elsewhere while our OLBs struggle to stop the run.  

 

(I have a feeling we are more in agreement on this than has been apparent so far...)

Yeah I would say based off this we are basically in agreement, just looking at it from different perspectives as it were. We both agree that Daryl was a gamble coming into this season, I just feel like it was a gamble worth taking, and you understand exactly why they didn't take the chance on him. The only thing that bugs me is how cheaply we could have had him. It was like a risk free trial of Daryl Smith haha. But yeah I can see from your point too why Dave didn't want to take him. 

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My main issue is that we let Jones, Smith, and Knighton all go places where they didn't get huge paychecks, and then we replaced them at almost the exact same cost with worse players.

 

WIll T, was not going to be a contributor on a playoff team, and I understand Geno could be but we could have signed him and Smith and still been fine with money. Then signing Miller for the exact same amount that Knighton got paid is just ridiculous. Knighton is better than Miller is! Why let him go then pay a worse DT the same amount of money?!

It's already been pointed out in this thread that the Jaguars tried hard to bring Jones back, but he wanted to go to a team that had a chance to make a run of it (oops).

 

Regarding Knighton, the team didn't let him go because of talent concerns. Pot Roast is a talented player, no doubt about it. But he's also frequently in poor shape and was very obviously giving questionable effort throughout much of last year, which led to his demotion. If I'm David Caldwell, inheriting this team, do I want to re-sign a guy that I have serious effort and character questions about, or do I want to sign someone else who, I believe, is of similar talent level, but higher effort? The move clearly hasn't worked out as intended, and Miller doesn't look like a long-term answer, but it goes back to that same question: if you know a guy doesn't fit in, why would you re-sign him, regardless of price tag?

 

As far as Smith goes, I don't know how to say it any more plainly. He's a 31-year-old outside linebacker in a 4-3. In a 4-3, the OLB positions are typically the least important to have supremely talented players in. That's not to say that Smith isn't talented; he is, but we're 0-8 without him and you'd have a very hard time convincing me that we'd be 1-7 or better with him. If you know your defense is bad, and you know you're blowing the thing up and starting fresh, why would you spend $2 million on an aging linebacker instead of identifying a young guy with better athleticism who could use the reps to prove if he's a long-term option or not?

 

If Caldwell and Bradley had walked into a situation like the Chiefs, where the roster had 8-0 talent but 2-14 coaching, I'd share your dismay. Problem is that they inherited a 2-14 roster that, through a decade of careful and constant annihilation by Shack and Gene, was stocked with 0-8 talent. There was no way that the Jaguars were ever going to be competitive this year, and the team was commendably upfront about that fact throughout the offseason. Given how bad this roster is, it only made sense to dump the players who, for whatever reason, don't fit into the plans long-term and replace them with young guns who might.

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It's already been pointed out in this thread that the Jaguars tried hard to bring Jones back, but he wanted to go to a team that had a chance to make a run of it (oops).

 

Regarding Knighton, the team didn't let him go because of talent concerns. Pot Roast is a talented player, no doubt about it. But he's also frequently in poor shape and was very obviously giving questionable effort throughout much of last year, which led to his demotion. If I'm David Caldwell, inheriting this team, do I want to re-sign a guy that I have serious effort and character questions about, or do I want to sign someone else who, I believe, is of similar talent level, but higher effort? The move clearly hasn't worked out as intended, and Miller doesn't look like a long-term answer, but it goes back to that same question: if you know a guy doesn't fit in, why would you re-sign him, regardless of price tag?

 

As far as Smith goes, I don't know how to say it any more plainly. He's a 31-year-old outside linebacker in a 4-3. In a 4-3, the OLB positions are typically the least important to have supremely talented players in. That's not to say that Smith isn't talented; he is, but we're 0-8 without him and you'd have a very hard time convincing me that we'd be 1-7 or better with him. If you know your defense is bad, and you know you're blowing the thing up and starting fresh, why would you spend $2 million on an aging linebacker instead of identifying a young guy with better athleticism who could use the reps to prove if he's a long-term option or not?

 

If Caldwell and Bradley had walked into a situation like the Chiefs, where the roster had 8-0 talent but 2-14 coaching, I'd share your dismay. Problem is that they inherited a 2-14 roster that, through a decade of careful and constant annihilation by Shack and Gene, was stocked with 0-8 talent. There was no way that the Jaguars were ever going to be competitive this year, and the team was commendably upfront about that fact throughout the offseason. Given how bad this roster is, it only made sense to dump the players who, for whatever reason, don't fit into the plans long-term and replace them with young guns who might.

To be honest because of how the season has gone I haven't been on the forums much. I am really just nit picking here because things are so bad, I don't have any problem with Dave blowing the whole thing up. It needed to be done. I would liked to have seen a few things go a little differently, maybe leading to us being more competitive in some of the match ups we have had so far. That $2 million dollars spent on Smith seems to be a fair price to pay if it allows us to not go down as the worst team in history. Right now we are so far from competing against even the lower tier teams in the league, I just don't see how it could have hurt to have Smith and Knighton on the team, signed to paltry low risk contracts.

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Because they weren't in the team's plans. It really is that simple. If you're rebuilding the roster and you've got pending free agents who don't fit into your plans, don't spend money on them. Is that the right approach? Well, I suppose if we break 8-8 within the next three years, yeah, Caldwell did something right.

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I can promise you that even if we resigned Daryl, Cox, Knighton, and Greg we would still be 0-8...

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Because they weren't in the team's plans. It really is that simple. If you're rebuilding the roster and you've got pending free agents who don't fit into your plans, don't spend money on them. Is that the right approach? Well, I suppose if we break 8-8 within the next three years, yeah, Caldwell did something right.

 

I expect more then just to just break .500 in 3 years

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We are 1-7. Still going to get the 1st pick, still worst team in the NFL, but slightly more competitive. Enough so that we don't get beaten by 10 or more points every single game. And the fans are satisfied that we will get a franchise QB, without the danger of going 0-16. 

That's what.

 

So, Daryl Smith would give us 1 extra win at this point on his own?  How?  Is he playing offense? 

 

People have this tendency to overvalue players, and based on the position he plays, he wouldn't contribute to a win.  He might take those 20 point losses and make them 17 point losses, but that's about it.  This is a bad team that required gutting.  What Caldwell did is the equivalent of ripping a band aid off as opposed to slowly peeling it away as we've seen the team do repeatedly in the past. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I expect more then just to just break .500 in 3 years

 

Agree.  If we're only breaking .500 three years from now, I would not call that successfull.  We were basically a 7-9 to 9-7 team with Del Rio and Garrard under center...  To have blown up everything over this long of a time frame only to be a mediocre team that we all had been saying wasnt good enough?  That would be a hard pill to swallow.

 

Matter of fact, I don't really want to wrap my head around it.

 

I've said it  before, I've liked Caldwells first off season.  We picked up some peices that have potential to be long term answers.  The team as a whole still has so many difficiencies that it's hard to see the positives out there.  But there are players in spots that could be here contributing to a playoff run.  So far I'm OK with Caldwell.  I can't say I'm pleased, cuz you know...  0-8...  But I'm willing to keep on the journey.

 

Our first round pick is pretty much a no-brainer...  We'll either have the 1 or 2 pick.  But what we do with the rest of the draft and free agency in 2014 will go a long way in determining what we have in terms of our future. 

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The one thing missing from the good overview provided in the original post was the #1 draft pick.   Getting rid of our players perhaps was a downgrade but it could be offset with the #1 pick -- that will make everything worth it.

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So, Daryl Smith would give us 1 extra win at this point on his own?  How?  Is he playing offense? 

 

People have this tendency to overvalue players, and based on the position he plays, he wouldn't contribute to a win.  He might take those 20 point losses and make them 17 point losses, but that's about it.  This is a bad team that required gutting.  What Caldwell did is the equivalent of ripping a band aid off as opposed to slowly peeling it away as we've seen the team do repeatedly in the past. 

 

Daryl Smith would play QB and throw bombs to himself and beat the Rams.

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Agree.  If we're only breaking .500 three years from now, I would not call that successfull.  We were basically a 7-9 to 9-7 team with Del Rio and Garrard under center...  To have blown up everything over this long of a time frame only to be a mediocre team that we all had been saying wasnt good enough?  That would be a hard pill to swallow.

 

Matter of fact, I don't really want to wrap my head around it.

 

I've said it  before, I've liked Caldwells first off season.  We picked up some peices that have potential to be long term answers.  The team as a whole still has so many difficiencies that it's hard to see the positives out there.  But there are players in spots that could be here contributing to a playoff run.  So far I'm OK with Caldwell.  I can't say I'm pleased, cuz you know...  0-8...  But I'm willing to keep on the journey.

 

Our first round pick is pretty much a no-brainer...  We'll either have the 1 or 2 pick.  But what we do with the rest of the draft and free agency in 2014 will go a long way in determining what we have in terms of our future. 

 

Hopefully we'll be talking about .500 next year.  I think that kind of transformation can happen depending on the moves they make next off season.  If they are able to address the offensive line, QB, and pass rush issues, there's no reason to believe this team can't put together 7-9 wins next year. 

 

There are certainly many issues to fix, but if they get it right on QB, and they find someone who can get to the QB, and they put a line together capable of protecting the QB and creating lanes in the running game, this team goes from a doormat to a competitive unit pretty quickly.  But, that means the guys making the personnel decisions have to get it right.  Next off season will be a good indicator of how good Caldwell actually is.  Blowing it up is tough, but not nearly as difficult as identifying the right talent to build around.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

So let's say we kept Daryl.

Now what?

We would have two competent and good linebackers out there instead of one. Then Hayes could go back to his position where he was most effective in Tampa which is special teams where he belongs because he's nothing more than that. 2.5 million dollars is peanuts for what these guys make in the league and letting Smith walk when only signing a one year deal somewhere else is dumb. But obviously Caldwell's strategy is to tank so that's where we're at now.

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Hopefully we'll be talking about .500 next year.  I think that kind of transformation can happen depending on the moves they make next off season.  If they are able to address the offensive line, QB, and pass rush issues, there's no reason to believe this team can't put together 7-9 wins next year. 

 

There are certainly many issues to fix, but if they get it right on QB, and they find someone who can get to the QB, and they put a line together capable of protecting the QB and creating lanes in the running game, this team goes from a doormat to a competitive unit pretty quickly.  But, that means the guys making the personnel decisions have to get it right.  Next off season will be a good indicator of how good Caldwell actually is.  Blowing it up is tough, but not nearly as difficult as identifying the right talent to build around.

 

Next year we should expect to be within a game of .500 that's really a fair expectation going forward.

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Hopefully we'll be talking about .500 next year.  I think that kind of transformation can happen depending on the moves they make next off season.  If they are able to address the offensive line, QB, and pass rush issues, there's no reason to believe this team can't put together 7-9 wins next year. 

 

There are certainly many issues to fix, but if they get it right on QB, and they find someone who can get to the QB, and they put a line together capable of protecting the QB and creating lanes in the running game, this team goes from a doormat to a competitive unit pretty quickly.  But, that means the guys making the personnel decisions have to get it right.  Next off season will be a good indicator of how good Caldwell actually is.  Blowing it up is tough, but not nearly as difficult as identifying the right talent to build around.

 

I got us at 9-7 next yr.

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Getting younger hurts.

 

If you believe the Losers, we've chosen a good year to do it.

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I expect more then just to just break .500 in 3 years

 

Then you sir, don't belong here. This place is for people who accept and embrace mediocrity from their football team. We are perfectly fine with the culmination of the rebuild = .500 after three years!! :pinch:  

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I know! That's why I saying they should have signed Geno and Daryl, both to short term cheap deals! Are yall not getting this? He didn't cost a lot of money, and it's a short term deal! We all knew he wasn't gonna be here much longer! I don't hate that they signed Geno, I still think he might turn out alright. It bums me out they let Daryl go when they could have had him on a cheap short term deal.

Unless I'm mistaken, I remember the Jaguars being pretty vocal that they wanted Smith back, but at the right price.  My guess is they made an offer and he wanted to go to a contender instead.

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