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KYjaggy · 10-02-2013, 12:23 AM

I would ask everyone that hates the Monroe trade if they know/agree with how the Astros are rebuilding?

The Astros are getting rave reviews for this rebuild now, finally, after a couple years of cleaning house, staying extremely cheap (most expensive player is literally making 1.1 million dollars this year, second is 500k), completely tanking, drafting first, drafting well, and building for long term sustainability. Suddenly, there are a lot of really good articles, videos, quotes, etc saying the way the Stros are doing it is exactly how a proper rebuild should be done.

The Jags are basically the Astros right now, except if Dave drafts well it will be turned around faster because we don't have to wait for the players to develop in the minor leagues for 2 or 3 or more years.

This way of rebuilding is even better for the NFL because teams are at an even playing field financially, so the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc can't just come along and spend their way to a title after all of your hard, proper, work.

MR FLORIDA · 10-02-2013, 12:24 AM

Jags are Astros? Comparing a NFL to MLB? In a non salary cap sport? Good call

KYjaggy · 10-02-2013, 12:30 AM

Quote:Jags are Astros? Comparing a NFL to MLB? In a non salary cap sport? Good call

Yep, and it's an even better philosophy in the NFL for the reason I stated in the OP.

The Eleventh Doctor · 10-02-2013, 12:34 AM

It wouldn't be so bad if we get better than what's being reported.

I was wrong about Trent Baalke.

rpr52121 · 10-02-2013, 12:36 AM

Not perfect analogy

1. MLB you need a good farm system to be a contender long term. No such thing in NFL.

2. Turn around time. It takes a lot longer to turn around an MLB franchise because of how long draft picks take to pan out, and because windows are typically longer in MLB.

3. Typically fast turnover in NFL. Most teams tend to make the playoffs once every decade in NFL. Yes, there are those franchises that are horribly run, but I think there has been at least 1 worst-to-first division winner in the NFL each of the last 10 years or something. MLB has some turnover, but the best teams typically stay the best teams. Most teams never really have a chance at the playoffs.

Having said that, before Luhnow (current GM) was hired by Houston, the DisAstros had horrible draft after horrible draft for years back to when they stupidly let Hunsicker go to the Tampa Bay Rays because Drayton (old Owner) got his pride hurt. They have done well to turn it around now draft-wise, but they are still at least 2-3 years out from contention. In that sense, it is a lot like the Jaguars who have repeatedly poorly drafted for years because apparely Gene Smith "purposely" drafted players from small schools "who had faced adversity".

Jaguars are basically like the Houston Texans when Kubiak got hired at the end of the David Carr era. Note they also got lambasted for their #1 pick by fans with Mario Williams even though that was the right decision at the time.

MR FLORIDA · 10-02-2013, 12:37 AM

We have been rebuilding for the last 6 years. It gets old. At some point you gotta realize we just suck and make stupid decisions in hiring GMs and coaches

JagsFerLife · 10-02-2013, 12:37 AM

If last year is any indication of how the drafts will go, then we're on the right track.

MR FLORIDA · 10-02-2013, 12:41 AM

How are we on the right track based off rookies who are helping us go 0-16? Lol

~~The Mad Dog~~ · 10-02-2013, 12:45 AM

Except you are talking to a guy that plays fantasy baseball here, so I know how talented some of those Astros young players are....and they are. I agree.....

The Jags have a few like Blackmon and hopefully Bridgewater, et al...

but the Jags stockpiling garbage picks like 5th, and 6th rounders isn't going to get it done.

You need to stockpile 1st through 4th rounders to get good quickly in the NFL.

trunt87 · 10-02-2013, 12:47 AM

Quote:Except you are talking to a guy that plays fantasy baseball here, so I know how talented some of those Astros young players are....and they are. I agree.....

The Jags have a few like Blackmon and hopefully Bridgewater, et al...

but the Jags stockpiling garbage picks like 5th, and 6th rounders isn't going to get it done.

You need to stockpile 1st through 4th rounders to get good quickly in the NFL.

Can you not wait until the actual trade comes out before you start saying that they are stock piling 5th and 6th round picks? You don't have the slightest clue.

~~HeeRo~~ · 10-02-2013, 12:49 AM

Quote:We have been rebuilding for the last 6 years. It gets old. At some point you gotta realize we just suck and make stupid decisions in hiring GMs and coaches

this. the colts did rebuilding right.

Tommy · 10-02-2013, 12:51 AM

I don't know if this is a good comparison, but I'll roll with it.

Quote:I think Bridgewater at 3 is better value than Mack at 3, yes.

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KYjaggy · 10-02-2013, 12:51 AM

Quote:Not perfect analogy

1. MLB you need a good farm system to be a contender long term. No such thing in NFL.

2. Turn around time. It takes a lot longer to turn around an MLB franchise because of how long draft picks take to pan out, and because windows are typically longer in MLB.

3. Typically fast turnover in NFL. Most teams tend to make the playoffs once every decade in NFL. Yes, there are those franchises that are horribly run, but I think there has been at least 1 worst-to-first division winner in the NFL each of the last 10 years or something. MLB has some turnover, but the best teams typically stay the best teams. Most teams never really have a chance at the playoffs.

Having said that, before Luhnow (current GM) was hired by Houston, the DisAstros had horrible draft after horrible draft for years back to when they stupidly let Hunsicker go to the Tampa Bay Rays because Drayton (old Owner) got his pride hurt. They have done well to turn it around now draft-wise, but they are still at least 2-3 years out from contention. In that sense, it is a lot like the Jaguars who have repeatedly poorly drafted for years because apparely Gene Smith "purposely" drafted players from small schools "who had faced adversity".

Jaguars are basically like the Houston Texans when Kubiak got hired at the end of the David Carr era. Note they also got lambasted for their #1 pick by fans with Mario Williams even though that was the right decision at the time.

I addressed all 3 of those points by saying it will work even better in the NFL because you don't have to wait years for players to develop in the minors and the big market teams can't spend their way to a title b/c of the salary cap. The latter being why teams in baseball have to load up for a small window before they start all over. If the Royals/Stros/Marlins/etc weren't basically farm systems for the big markets (which they can't do in the NFL) then the draft, develop, long term sustainability process works even better no?

Teal Time Radio · 10-02-2013, 12:51 AM

What I seen with Seattle and Atlanta was quality depth. With out it in the NFL. You are in deep trouble.

Bleeding Teal since 1995. The Icon Teal Time Radio aka ctjags

#Gojags

KYjaggy · 10-02-2013, 12:53 AM

Quote:this. the colts did rebuilding right.

What you mean is they lucked into the best QB prospect of this generation. Other than that they have done nothing special at all except blow a ton of FA money on average to below average players. The way Dave is building will be far better, assuming he hits on whoever he determines will be his franchise QB...be it TeddyB or whoever.

~~The Mad Dog~~ · 10-02-2013, 12:54 AM

Quote:this. the colts did rebuilding right.

Hopefully, we'll emulate the 1st round pick, at least.....

D6 · 10-02-2013, 12:58 AM

Quote:What I seen with Seattle and Atlanta was quality depth. With out it in the NFL. You are in deep trouble.

The only part of what you expressed that I disagree with is Atlanta having quality depth. The injuries they currently have really took their toll on them against New England the other night. Maybe they can overcome their injuries against average or below average teams. Against good teams like the Patriots, the current Falcons looked very ordinary.

~~HeeRo~~ · 10-02-2013, 01:05 AM

Quote:What you mean is they lucked into the best QB prospect of this generation. Other than that they have done nothing special at all except blow a ton of FA money on average to below average players. The way Dave is building will be far better, assuming he hits on whoever he determines will be his franchise QB...be it TeddyB or whoever.

does it really matter how they did it, their method yielded results and now they seem to be a perennial playoff team. while we start all over again :mellow:

JungleMan · 10-03-2013, 09:36 AM

Quote:What you mean is they lucked into the best QB prospect of this generation. Other than that they have done nothing special at all except blow a ton of FA money on average to below average players. The way Dave is building will be far better, assuming he hits on whoever he determines will be his franchise QB...be it TeddyB or whoever.

That's not true , they also gathered a top notch coaching staff and had the stones to make Peyton walk. Irsay love him or hate him made a solid string of good decisions .

GreeceMonkE · 10-03-2013, 10:04 AM

Quote:Except you are talking to a guy that plays fantasy baseball here, so I know how talented some of those Astros young players are....and they are. I agree.....

The Jags have a few like Blackmon and hopefully Bridgewater, et al...

but the Jags stockpiling garbage picks like 5th, and 6th rounders isn't going to get it done.

You need to stockpile 1st through 4th rounders to get good quickly in the NFL.

It's not where you pick it's who you pick.....

Corey Graham, Desmond Bishop, Brandon Carr, Carl Nicks, Danny Amendola, Marcel Reece, Arian Foster, Kam Chancellor, Antonio Brown, Sam Shields, Victor Cruz, Richard Sherman, Alfred Morris ......and that's only a small sample size of guys taken later than 4th round.

My point is, the pick needs to work out it's not just about where the pick is made. If those picks work out then they aren't garbage.