So, what we know so far is that Trump Jr was offered what he thought was a chance to collude with the Russians to get his father elected, and he jumped at the chance.   Manafort and Kushner went along with him.

Legal or illegal?  Moral or immoral?  Ethical or unethical?   Whatever.  

The way this stuff keeps dribbling out, the way the Trump people keep lying and getting caught, I'm sure there will be more to this story.

What amazes me is how many people seem to be more loyal to Trump than they are to the truth, or the Republican agenda or anything else.   It's like a cult.

Trump supporters dont give a damn about anything else because those other things, other than the truth but certainly including the Establishment Republican agenda, have done nothing but screw them over for 20 years. Now Trump is speaking their language and Trump's opponents turned the rhetoric up so loud that they dont care what's being said because, knowing full well what he is, they still trust him more than those speaking against him.
[/quote]
You over estimate their commitment to the truth.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

So, what we know so far is that Trump Jr was offered what he thought was a chance to collude with the Russians to get his father elected, and he jumped at the chance.   Manafort and Kushner went along with him.

Legal or illegal?  Moral or immoral?  Ethical or unethical?   Whatever.  

The way this stuff keeps dribbling out, the way the Trump people keep lying and getting caught, I'm sure there will be more to this story.

What amazes me is how many people seem to be more loyal to Trump than they are to the truth, or the Republican agenda or anything else.   It's like a cult.

Trump supporters dont give a damn about anything else because those other things, other than the truth but certainly including the Establishment Republican agenda, have done nothing but screw them over for 20 years. Now Trump is speaking their language and Trump's opponents turned the rhetoric up so loud that they dont care what's being said because, knowing full well what he is, they still trust him more than those speaking against him.

You over estimate their commitment to the truth.
[/quote]

There you go again.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The facts is Donnie, Jr. thought he was getting dirt on Hillary Clinton from an official Russian government source and jumped at the chance.

This fact shows Donnie, Jr. is ethically bankrupt.

Nobody who knows anything about how the Trumps have behaved since their forefathers immigrated should be surprised. To them it's all about winning and losing, ethics be damned.

It is not illegal to meet with someone and hear what they have to say, not even if they are a foreign official. It is not even unethical.

Had Junior actually been given dirt on Hillary and then published it, that would be unethical, although still not illegal.
[/quote]
Using information provided by a foreign government to influence an election can indeed be illegal.

You have an interesting attitude about ethics.

Anyway, I think the meeting was designed to compromise Donnie, Jr. Its what the Russians do, and he was dumb enough to take the bait.

Sent from my LG-V520 using Tapatalk

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

The facts is Donnie, Jr. thought he was getting dirt on Hillary Clinton from an official Russian government source and jumped at the chance.

This fact shows Donnie, Jr. is ethically bankrupt.

Nobody who knows anything about how the Trumps have behaved since their forefathers immigrated should be surprised. To them it's all about winning and losing, ethics be damned.

It is not illegal to meet with someone and hear what they have to say, not even if they are a foreign official. It is not even unethical.

Had Junior actually been given dirt on Hillary and then published it, that would be unethical, although still not illegal.

Using information provided by a foreign government to influence an election can indeed be illegal.

You have an interesting attitude about ethics.

Anyway, I think the meeting was designed to compromise Donnie, Jr. Its what the Russians do, and he was dumb enough to take the bait.

Sent from my LG-V520 using Tapatalk
[/quote]

"Can be" is certainly not the standard being used in the reporting, more like "always guilty even if we dont know what happened."

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The facts is Donnie, Jr. thought he was getting dirt on Hillary Clinton from an official Russian government source and jumped at the chance.

This fact shows Donnie, Jr. is ethically bankrupt.

Nobody who knows anything about how the Trumps have behaved since their forefathers immigrated should be surprised. To them it's all about winning and losing, ethics be damned.

It is not illegal to meet with someone and hear what they have to say, not even if they are a foreign official. It is not even unethical.

Had Junior actually been given dirt on Hillary and then published it, that would be unethical, although still not illegal.

Using information provided by a foreign government to influence an election can indeed be illegal.

You have an interesting attitude about ethics.

Anyway, I think the meeting was designed to compromise Donnie, Jr. Its what the Russians do, and he was dumb enough to take the bait.

Sure. If Junior was given information on how to hack the election computers or commit some other crime and then did it, that would be illegal. 

But it's not illegal to reveal that (say) Hillary regularly gave golden showers to Vince Foster (assuming that was true). If the information was about Hillary committing treason or some other high crime then it would be a crime to help cover it up.

You can ascribe unethical motives to Junior, but nobody but Junior knows for sure. No crime was committed. Nothing unethical was actually done, so this boils down to what Junior was thinking. From his E-mail response it's logical to conclude that he thought he could get information on Hillary that would help his father win the election. That's a normal motive for every politician ever.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Just imagine the outrage had this been Michelle Obama in place of Donald Junior.

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Just imagine the outrage had this been Michelle Obama in place of Donald Junior.

It's not hard. The MSM would have ignored it, or spent every waking hour justifying it. Surely you don't believe any differently.

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You all mean to tell me that one candidate tried to get some dirt on the other candidate? I'll be damned. Who woulda thunk? Whats this damn world coming to?

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Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 

So, what we know so far is that Trump Jr was offered what he thought was a chance to collude with the Russians to get his father elected, and he jumped at the chance.   Manafort and Kushner went along with him.

Legal or illegal?  Moral or immoral?  Ethical or unethical?   Whatever.  

The way this stuff keeps dribbling out, the way the Trump people keep lying and getting caught, I'm sure there will be more to this story.

What amazes me is how many people seem to be more loyal to Trump than they are to the truth, or the Republican agenda or anything else.   It's like a cult.

Trump supporters dont give a damn about anything else because those other things, other than the truth but certainly including the Establishment Republican agenda, have done nothing but screw them over for 20 years. Now Trump is speaking their language and Trump's opponents turned the rhetoric up so loud that they dont care what's being said because, knowing full well what he is, they still trust him more than those speaking against him.

You over estimate their commitment to the truth.
[/quote]

RJ, you and your people have lost sight of what is important, and it is why you will keep on LOSING. Do you think Bubba in Alabama cares about Russia? I'm pretty sure he cares about getting a little extra change in his pocket. Keep up the good fight bruther!

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Trump supporters dont give a damn about anything else because those other things, other than the truth but certainly including the Establishment Republican agenda, have done nothing but screw them over for 20 years. Now Trump is speaking their language and Trump's opponents turned the rhetoric up so loud that they dont care what's being said because, knowing full well what he is, they still trust him more than those speaking against him.

You over estimate their commitment to the truth.

RJ, you and your people have lost sight of what is important, and it is why you will keep on LOSING. Do you think Bubba in Alabama cares about Russia? I'm pretty sure he cares about getting a little extra change in his pocket. Keep up the good fight bruther!

That's your problem, brother, you assume I, or "my people", are losing just because we see through your boy. I'm actually doing just fine, and have been doing just fine the past 8 years, as have many of those portrayed as "losing". My bet is you've done ok, too. But keep fighting the fight, and keep believing you're being saved...from something.

Trump has lied so many times I think even he believes he's tell the truth.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

You over estimate their commitment to the truth.

RJ, you and your people have lost sight of what is important, and it is why you will keep on LOSING. Do you think Bubba in Alabama cares about Russia? I'm pretty sure he cares about getting a little extra change in his pocket. Keep up the good fight bruther!

That's your problem, brother, you assume I, or "my people", are losing just because we see through your boy. I'm actually doing just fine, and have been doing just fine the past 8 years, as have many of those portrayed as "losing". My bet is you've done ok, too. But keep fighting the fight, and keep believing you're being saved...from something.

Trump has lied so many times I think even he believes he's tell the truth.

Yes, I have done ok. Better thank ok actually. Then again, I don't have the mindset that a sitting president, no matter which party, can truly impact the outcome of my life. Not saying you do either.

The "forgotten man" put Trump in the WH, and the democrats are still forgetting them. Isn't this a little troubling?

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That's your problem, brother, you assume I, or "my people", are losing just because we see through your boy. I'm actually doing just fine, and have been doing just fine the past 8 years, as have many of those portrayed as "losing". My bet is you've done ok, too. But keep fighting the fight, and keep believing you're being saved...from something.

Trump has lied so many times I think even he believes he's tell the truth.

Yes, I have done ok. Better thank ok actually. Then again, I don't have the mindset that a sitting president, no matter which party, can truly impact the outcome of my life. Not saying you do either.

The "forgotten man" put Trump in the WH, and the democrats are still forgetting them. Isn't this a little troubling?

Your last paragraph says it all. White males have been labeled every derogatory term the liberal machine could come up with. Offer a differing opinion and the labels fly. They even came up with a derogatory term for what happened "whitelash" and still they continue on the same path. Insanity!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

RJ, you and your people have lost sight of what is important, and it is why you will keep on LOSING. Do you think Bubba in Alabama cares about Russia? I'm pretty sure he cares about getting a little extra change in his pocket. Keep up the good fight bruther!

Good thing he's got a few extra coins in his pocket. He's going to need him when he sees what life is like paying UCR at the doctor's office.

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So, what we know so far is that Trump Jr was offered what he thought was a chance to collude with the Russians to get his father elected, and he jumped at the chance.   Manafort and Kushner went along with him.

Legal or illegal?  Moral or immoral?  Ethical or unethical?   Whatever.  

The way this stuff keeps dribbling out, the way the Trump people keep lying and getting caught, I'm sure there will be more to this story.

What amazes me is how many people seem to be more loyal to Trump than they are to the truth, or the Republican agenda or anything else.   It's like a cult.

Trump supporters dont give a damn about anything else because those other things, other than the truth but certainly including the Establishment Republican agenda, have done nothing but screw them over for 20 years. Now Trump is speaking their language and Trump's opponents turned the rhetoric up so loud that they dont care what's being said because, knowing full well what he is, they still trust him more than those speaking against him.

So they think they've been lied to all these years, and in response, they've given their loyalty to someone to openly lies and gets caught in a lie almost every single day.  He's not even a good liar.   He tells lies that are so easily shown to be lies, it's like he's mentally ill. And what does it say about his supporters? 40% or 36% or whatever it is today, they are choosing to live in a land of make-believe. It they see some news they don't like, they call it fake news, or slam the mainstream media and retreat into that cocoon of alternative facts, where the world is whatever their thought leaders tell them, and no inconvenient facts can intrude on their world view.

---

Trump supporters dont give a damn about anything else because those other things, other than the truth but certainly including the Establishment Republican agenda, have done nothing but screw them over for 20 years. Now Trump is speaking their language and Trump's opponents turned the rhetoric up so loud that they dont care what's being said because, knowing full well what he is, they still trust him more than those speaking against him.

So they think they've been lied to all these years, and in response, they've given their loyalty to someone to openly lies and gets caught in a lie almost every single day.  He's not even a good liar.   He tells lies that are so easily shown to be lies, it's like he's mentally ill.   And what does it say about his supporters?   40% or 36% or whatever it is today, they are choosing to live in a land of make-believe.   It they see some news they don't like, they call it fake news, or slam the mainstream media and retreat into that cocoon of alternative facts, where the world is whatever their thought leaders tell them, and no inconvenient facts can intrude on their world view.

According to anonymous sources.

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Trump supporters dont give a damn about anything else because those other things, other than the truth but certainly including the Establishment Republican agenda, have done nothing but screw them over for 20 years. Now Trump is speaking their language and Trump's opponents turned the rhetoric up so loud that they dont care what's being said because, knowing full well what he is, they still trust him more than those speaking against him.

So they think they've been lied to all these years, and in response, they've given their loyalty to someone to openly lies and gets caught in a lie almost every single day.  He's not even a good liar.   He tells lies that are so easily shown to be lies, it's like he's mentally ill.   And what does it say about his supporters?   40% or 36% or whatever it is today, they are choosing to live in a land of make-believe.   It they see some news they don't like, they call it fake news, or slam the mainstream media and retreat into that cocoon of alternative facts, where the world is whatever their thought leaders tell them, and no inconvenient facts can intrude on their world view.

They dont believe you and why should they,? Furthermore, they simply dont care what you think about anything and your tears of outrage are enjoyable. And while CNN doesn't know ANYONE who voted for Trump, only 16% disapprove of his policies. So they dont like him but like what he's doing because all the people we've come to despise are living in anguish over his every tweet. What a world, whatta world!

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Thank God for Obama's policies to keep this going.

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Has anybody on this forum ever received an inquiry for a presidential approval rating?

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Thank God for Obama's policies to keep this going.

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Has anybody on this forum ever received an inquiry for a presidential approval rating?

Our properties values (zillow.com) and 401k are up a combined $175k since 1/1/2017 so the fact that Trump did not kill the Obama momentum by impeding imports from critical global production out of China and Mexico is definitely a win-win situation for everyone (except Tommy Joe Blackwell in the rust belt waiting for that $20/hour factory job to come back).

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The facts is Donnie, Jr. thought he was getting dirt on Hillary Clinton from an official Russian government source and jumped at the chance.

This fact shows Donnie, Jr. is ethically bankrupt.

Nobody who knows anything about how the Trumps have behaved since their forefathers immigrated should be surprised. To them it's all about winning and losing, ethics be damned.

LOL. Someone trying to get dirt on an opposing candidate is being morally bankrupt?

Unless you have a (D) after  your name.  Then it's perfectly acceptable to do opposition research, regardless of the source, or the the trail of bodies required to obtain it (or bury it if you're a Clinton).

The bottom line her is that Donnie Jr. showed his political naivete and far too overzealous eagerness to get dirt on Clinton.  When all is said and done, stupidity isn't illegal, and neither is anything they did here.  But, as long as CNN and MSNBC can milk it for ratings, it's going to be a big story.

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

LOL. Someone trying to get dirt on an opposing candidate is being morally bankrupt?

Unless you have a (D) after  your name.  Then it's perfectly acceptable to do opposition research, regardless of the source, or the the trail of bodies required to obtain it (or bury it if you're a Clinton).

The bottom line her is that Donnie Jr. showed his political naivete and far too overzealous eagerness to get dirt on Clinton.  When all is said and done, stupidity isn't illegal, and neither is anything they did here.  But, as long as CNN and MSNBC can milk it for ratings, it's going to be a big story.

Here's an opinion piece from that bastion of liberalism, National Review. 

http://www.nationalreview.com/g-file/449...t-now-gone


"If you spent years — like I did, by the way — insisting that the Clintons were a corrupt affront to political decency, invoking their venal actions as a moral justification for Team Trump’s actions is the rhetorical equivalent of a remake of Waterworld set entirely in the main vat of a sewage-treatment plant, i.e., the intellectual Mother of Sh*t Shows. This is a point Ben Shapiro made well earlier this week (and which I’ve been writing about for two years now). If you want to make the case that Democrats or the media are hypocrites, whataboutism is perfectly valid (and quite fun). But if you want to say that it’s fine for Trump to do things you considered legally and morally outrageous when Hillary Clinton did them, you should either concede that you believe two wrongs make a right or you should apologize for being angry about what Clinton did. "

"Trump’s more-credible defenders certainly may be right that this is all the result of ineptitude and amateurishness. These guys are like a mix between Ron Jeremy and a yoga master in their ability to step on their own johnsons. But my wait-and-see approach was grounded in the fact that other than Trump’s public obsession with the Russia story — including his firing of James Comey — there was no concrete evidence that the Trump campaign had any dealings with the Russians. That benefit of the doubt is gone."

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