My main thought two weeks into the preseason is "how in the world did we end up in position for a coach to start thinking Henne is an actual option to start again?"

I wasn't as outraged at Bortles' week two performance as some here, but he looks like he's lost something along the way during his time in the NFL. Ideally he would be at least functional as he was at the end of least season. If Henne is starting games for this team I foresee a lot of fans heading for the exit at half-time this season.

(Emphasis added)

That is a distinct possibility.  Most would say probability.

But I think there is a way for that to be minimized.  It's the same analysis as Bortles.

I firmly believe if the running game is going well, keeping us in favorable down and distance situations, Henne's liabilities can be minimized and he might have his moments of effectiveness.  He has an abundance of talent at WR.  He has an offensive minded coach.  He should be more productive than when we last saw him in the regular season in 2014-if the running game is doing its job.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Henne's been finding some deep shots this preseason so hopefully that's a good sign. You all know how much I disdain I've had for the man over the years, but it's largely because he's been so afraid to throw deep. I get it that he has a history of throwing INTs when he throws deep, but when he last played he was so timid that all he could do, with few exceptions, was check down and eek out yards throwing underneath.  Now Henne has shown this preseason that he can throw deep, and he's always been able to when guys are streaking wide open. but I need to know he can hit guys deep even when they aren't glaringly open.

As for Bortles, it looks like his arm went limp yet again in the week leading up the Bucs game and that he was still dealing with this during the game. I reserve some level of hope that he can reach down within himself and bring out that inner Hulk Bortles that dominated defenses in 2015, but I fear that even if he does this much he may always have issues related to his arm sporadically going limp when you need him at his best.

As for Allen, he's got the arm. I'm hoping the only reason he's not being given serious consideration is that they're intent on doing right by him by letting him groom on the roster until there's no doubt he's ready to play. Other QBs in his draft class are starting and looking good, and there's reason to think he may be just as good.

---

'02

There are a lot of kicker competitions being played out right now in the NFL. Even though we didn't bring another kicker in, doesn't mean our opening day kicker is on our team right now.  I think right now we're scouting from afar.

.

I've no doubt we will scour the waiver wire in the next couple of weeks to get a kicker.  But I am disappointed in the guy we have now.  His first year was a disaster.  Last year he showed improvement.  He has regressed.  Ugh.

Sounds exactly like Bortles

---

Let me give advance notice that there will be some QB talk in this thread, but I will not just talk QBs.  If you are weary of the QB talk and are inclined to roll your eyes at the thought, you may wish to seek another thread...or at least go down beyond point 2.  Having dispensed with the topic warning, here are some of my thoughts on the midpoint of preseason.


1.  More than any time that I can recall, I have been spectacularly wrong about the QB position here.  I'm talking Wile-e-coyote ACME bomb face explosion disastrously wrong.  I post a thread talking about Ryan Mallet throwing 5 INTs in practice and talk about how fortunate we are that Bortles hasn't done that.  The next day-the first padded practice-boom-he throws five picks!  After the New England preseason game, I urge people to not overreact to Henne and Bortles...then BOOM-Bortles slips back into open competition with Henne seemingly having all of the momentum.  I feel as though somehow I have jinxed Bortles.  Right now, my urge is to talk about his Jaguars career in the past tense.  I'm far from a QB mechanics guy, but I don't think his mechanics exclusively did him in.  I am wondering if his failure here is psychological in nature.  He does not look like the same guy we saw the first two years.  The 2015 Bortles easily hits Allen Robinson.  Last year and camp this year, he looks like he is pressing instead of just playing.  His misses on Robinson vs the Bucs last week mirror many of the misses last year.  I'm not sure if he recovers in time to reclaim the starting job, and with his $19 million salary next year, I'm not sure how the Jaguars can keep that salary on the bench.  Perhaps a fresh start is in order for him.

2.    Bortles training camp fall creates quite the conundrum.  What does the team do to address the QB position, short and long term?  Barring a career year from Henne, if we keep the current three QBs on the roster, it seems we will waste a year of a roster that most observers think is talented.  I think we possibly get a similar result if we sign one of the free agent QBs currently on the market, because minimally, it will take 3 weeks or so for them to get comfortable with the offense, with no guarantee they will perform any better than the incumbents we have on the roster.  Some have urged we try to trade for a QB.  As tempting as that would be, I think patience and restraint would be in the best long term interests of this team.  I cringe typing this.  I am weary of urging patience in the midst of nine straight losing seasons and counting.  Like all of you, I want to win now.  But despite that, I urge patience because there will be a buyer's market for QBs next year-or at least as close to one as you can find in the NFL.  If the current speculative evaluations hold, there will be several QBs carrying first round grades next year:  Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, the kid from Washington State, and maybe Jackson.  There seem to be some other decent prospects too.  On top of that, there are several situations where teams will have to fish or cut bait at the position where they have quality depth and impending free agents.  Let's start in Kansas City, where the Chiefs traded next year's first round pick to Buffalo for Mahomes, and they currently have Alex Smith under contract.  Smith is n his thirties, so it doesn't make much sense to trade for him, especially when they are going to want Mahomes to play.  Detroit has managed to get to the point where Matthew Stafford is playing in a contract year.  Will they franchise him?  Probably.  But he will be thirty by next year.    Buffalo presents another opportunity.  Tyrod Taylor is the current starter, but they drafted Nathan Peterman this year and I've heard they've been pleased with him.  However, given all of the picks they have accumulated (two picks in each of the first three rounds), you have to think they are positioning themselves to be able to take one of the QBs in next year's draft.  Taylor or Peterman or possibly both may be available next offseason. In Cincinnati, you've got  starter Andy Dalton, who will be 30 this October and backup A.J. McCarron, who is slated to be a free agent in 2018.  Dalton has not won a playoff game through his entire tenure there, and is coming off his first losing season with the Bengals.  Given the state of their O-Line, turning it around may not be in the cards for them this year.  Perhaps Marvin Lewis leaves in that scenario, and perhaps a new coach brings in his own QB.  On the other hand, the Jaguars reportedly offered a 2nd round pick to Cincinnati for McCarron and was turned down.  There is no way the Bengals pay for both of those QBs beyond this year if there is, indeed, interest in McCarron.  One or the other will be let go or dealt.  Finally, Cousins is still in Washington without a long term deal.  If the Skins' season goes south, might they let him go and go for a rookie?   I think if we wait it out, we will have more options at QB and will be less likely to overpay via trade.  The only problem is getting through this season.  Ugh!

• Shortened for context by me.
  

As always, great analysis and thought.

Regarding Bortles, I kind of think that much of the media (social, national, local, etc.) got into his head.  While many players say that they don't look at the media, you know that they do.  They either see it online or on television.  Heck, just a couple of weeks ago one of the headline stories on CNN was about Bortles "being a bust".  This wasn't a sports website, it was a "news" website.

Like you, I'm not really a "mechanics" guy and it seems to me that his "issues" are all in his head.

For the near term, I hate to say it but Henne is probably the best option right now.  Will he solely win games for the Jaguars?  Absolutely not, but he won't lose them either (not saying Bortles is solely responsible for any past losses).

It's just my opinion, but Henne got a bad deal when he was the starting QB.  The roster then is nowhere close to the current roster.  I feel that with the right tools around him and a strong defense, the Jaguars could have a "successful" season.  "Successful" depends on expectation.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Its been a while, but it seems like many have forgotten Henne's atrocious number of batted balls or freezing in the pocket when pressured.

---

I keep thinking that once Brandon Allen finally does get his start, he's going to keep it and never look back. 

I'm all in on Allen starting this year. Just not against the Texans in week 1, let Henne take those hits..

---

Can someone summarize the OP?

Sure.

Let me give advance notice that there will be some QB talk in this thread, but I will not just talk QBs.  If you are weary of the QB talk and are inclined to roll your eyes at the thought, you may wish to seek another thread...or at least go down beyond point 2.  Having dispensed with the topic warning, here are some of my thoughts on the midpoint of preseason.


1.  More than any time that I can recall, I have been spectacularly wrong about the QB position here.  I'm talking Wile-e-coyote ACME bomb face explosion disastrously wrong.  I post a thread talking about Ryan Mallet throwing 5 INTs in practice and talk about how fortunate we are that Bortles hasn't done that.  The next day-the first padded practice-boom-he throws five picks!  After the New England preseason game, I urge people to not overreact to Henne and Bortles...then BOOM-Bortles slips back into open competition with Henne seemingly having all of the momentum.  I feel as though somehow I have jinxed Bortles.  Right now, my urge is to talk about his Jaguars career in the past tense.  I'm far from a QB mechanics guy, but I don't think his mechanics exclusively did him in.  I am wondering if his failure here is psychological in nature.  He does not look like the same guy we saw the first two years.  The 2015 Bortles easily hits Allen Robinson.  Last year and camp this year, he looks like he is pressing instead of just playing.  His misses on Robinson vs the Bucs last week mirror many of the misses last year.  I'm not sure if he recovers in time to reclaim the starting job, and with his $19 million salary next year, I'm not sure how the Jaguars can keep that salary on the bench.  Perhaps a fresh start is in order for him.

2.    Bortles training camp fall creates quite the conundrum.  What does the team do to address the QB position, short and long term?  Barring a career year from Henne, if we keep the current three QBs on the roster, it seems we will waste a year of a roster that most observers think is talented.  I think we possibly get a similar result if we sign one of the free agent QBs currently on the market, because minimally, it will take 3 weeks or so for them to get comfortable with the offense, with no guarantee they will perform any better than the incumbents we have on the roster.  Some have urged we try to trade for a QB.  As tempting as that would be, I think patience and restraint would be in the best long term interests of this team.  I cringe typing this.  I am weary of urging patience in the midst of nine straight losing seasons and counting.  Like all of you, I want to win now.  But despite that, I urge patience because there will be a buyer's market for QBs next year-or at least as close to one as you can find in the NFL.  If the current speculative evaluations hold, there will be several QBs carrying first round grades next year:  Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, the kid from Washington State, and maybe Jackson.  There seem to be some other decent prospects too.  On top of that, there are several situations where teams will have to fish or cut bait at the position where they have quality depth and impending free agents.  Let's start in Kansas City, where the Chiefs traded next year's first round pick to Buffalo for Mahomes, and they currently have Alex Smith under contract.  Smith is n his thirties, so it doesn't make much sense to trade for him, especially when they are going to want Mahomes to play.  Detroit has managed to get to the point where Matthew Stafford is playing in a contract year.  Will they franchise him?  Probably.  But he will be thirty by next year.    Buffalo presents another opportunity.  Tyrod Taylor is the current starter, but they drafted Nathan Peterman this year and I've heard they've been pleased with him.  However, given all of the picks they have accumulated (two picks in each of the first three rounds), you have to think they are positioning themselves to be able to take one of the QBs in next year's draft.  Taylor or Peterman or possibly both may be available next offseason. In Cincinnati, you've got  starter Andy Dalton, who will be 30 this October and backup A.J. McCarron, who is slated to be a free agent in 2018.  Dalton has not won a playoff game through his entire tenure there, and is coming off his first losing season with the Bengals.  Given the state of their O-Line, turning it around may not be in the cards for them this year.  Perhaps Marvin Lewis leaves in that scenario, and perhaps a new coach brings in his own QB.  On the other hand, the Jaguars reportedly offered a 2nd round pick to Cincinnati for McCarron and was turned down.  There is no way the Bengals pay for both of those QBs beyond this year if there is, indeed, interest in McCarron.  One or the other will be let go or dealt.  Finally, Cousins is still in Washington without a long term deal.  If the Skins' season goes south, might they let him go and go for a rookie?   I think if we wait it out, we will have more options at QB and will be less likely to overpay via trade.  The only problem is getting through this season.  Ugh!

3.  Lost in the QB talk-and the talk of his misdemeanor charges-is Dante Fowler.  Last year, the padded practices against the Bucs effectively took the air out of his balloon.  This year against the same team, he actually got pressure on their QB and forced a fumble.  It wasn't on a stunt, either.  He beat his man around the edge and hit the QB.  FWIW, Lageman and Boselli have said Fowler has had a good camp.  Does that mean he becomes the most unblockable pass rushing force the league has seen since LT in his prime?  No, but progress from him would be welcome.

4.  Why in the wide world of sports can we not find a kicker?  That is the one blemish in an otherwise nice improvement in special teams play.

5.  It will be nice to see Ramsey play tomorrow night, but I don't want to see too much of him. Save him for opening day and Hopkins.

6.  Rookie Watch

• Leonard Fournette-doing fine thus far  
  
• Cam Robinson-had his moments thus far.  Will wait and see
  
• Dawaune Smoot-I think most would characterize him as a disappointment
  
• Dede Westbrook-WOW!  It is evident why TC and Co. took a chance on him in the 4th round.
  
• Blair Brown-decent thus far
  
• Marquez Williams-has played well after starting camp on PUP.  Nice block on the Grant run v. New England.  I'm betting he is the starting FB opening day
  
• Jalen Myrick-looking like a practice squad guy.
  
• Keelan Cole-Wow!  Can't see how he doesn't make the team.
  
  

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Let me give advance notice that there will be some QB talk in this thread, but I will not just talk QBs.  If you are weary of the QB talk and are inclined to roll your eyes at the thought, you may wish to seek another thread...or at least go down beyond point 2.  Having dispensed with the topic warning, here are some of my thoughts on the midpoint of preseason.


1.  More than any time that I can recall, I have been spectacularly wrong about the QB position here.  I'm talking Wile-e-coyote ACME bomb face explosion disastrously wrong.  I post a thread talking about Ryan Mallet throwing 5 INTs in practice and talk about how fortunate we are that Bortles hasn't done that.  The next day-the first padded practice-boom-he throws five picks!  After the New England preseason game, I urge people to not overreact to Henne and Bortles...then BOOM-Bortles slips back into open competition with Henne seemingly having all of the momentum.  I feel as though somehow I have jinxed Bortles.  Right now, my urge is to talk about his Jaguars career in the past tense.  I'm far from a QB mechanics guy, but I don't think his mechanics exclusively did him in.  I am wondering if his failure here is psychological in nature.  He does not look like the same guy we saw the first two years.  The 2015 Bortles easily hits Allen Robinson.  Last year and camp this year, he looks like he is pressing instead of just playing.  His misses on Robinson vs the Bucs last week mirror many of the misses last year.  I'm not sure if he recovers in time to reclaim the starting job, and with his $19 million salary next year, I'm not sure how the Jaguars can keep that salary on the bench.  Perhaps a fresh start is in order for him.

2.    Bortles training camp fall creates quite the conundrum.  What does the team do to address the QB position, short and long term?  Barring a career year from Henne, if we keep the current three QBs on the roster, it seems we will waste a year of a roster that most observers think is talented.  I think we possibly get a similar result if we sign one of the free agent QBs currently on the market, because minimally, it will take 3 weeks or so for them to get comfortable with the offense, with no guarantee they will perform any better than the incumbents we have on the roster.  Some have urged we try to trade for a QB.  As tempting as that would be, I think patience and restraint would be in the best long term interests of this team.  I cringe typing this.  I am weary of urging patience in the midst of nine straight losing seasons and counting.  Like all of you, I want to win now.  But despite that, I urge patience because there will be a buyer's market for QBs next year-or at least as close to one as you can find in the NFL.  If the current speculative evaluations hold, there will be several QBs carrying first round grades next year:  Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, the kid from Washington State, and maybe Jackson.  There seem to be some other decent prospects too.  On top of that, there are several situations where teams will have to fish or cut bait at the position where they have quality depth and impending free agents.  Let's start in Kansas City, where the Chiefs traded next year's first round pick to Buffalo for Mahomes, and they currently have Alex Smith under contract.  Smith is n his thirties, so it doesn't make much sense to trade for him, especially when they are going to want Mahomes to play.  Detroit has managed to get to the point where Matthew Stafford is playing in a contract year.  Will they franchise him?  Probably.  But he will be thirty by next year.    Buffalo presents another opportunity.  Tyrod Taylor is the current starter, but they drafted Nathan Peterman this year and I've heard they've been pleased with him.  However, given all of the picks they have accumulated (two picks in each of the first three rounds), you have to think they are positioning themselves to be able to take one of the QBs in next year's draft.  Taylor or Peterman or possibly both may be available next offseason. In Cincinnati, you've got  starter Andy Dalton, who will be 30 this October and backup A.J. McCarron, who is slated to be a free agent in 2018.  Dalton has not won a playoff game through his entire tenure there, and is coming off his first losing season with the Bengals.  Given the state of their O-Line, turning it around may not be in the cards for them this year.  Perhaps Marvin Lewis leaves in that scenario, and perhaps a new coach brings in his own QB.  On the other hand, the Jaguars reportedly offered a 2nd round pick to Cincinnati for McCarron and was turned down.  There is no way the Bengals pay for both of those QBs beyond this year if there is, indeed, interest in McCarron.  One or the other will be let go or dealt.  Finally, Cousins is still in Washington without a long term deal.  If the Skins' season goes south, might they let him go and go for a rookie?   I think if we wait it out, we will have more options at QB and will be less likely to overpay via trade.  The only problem is getting through this season.  Ugh!

• Shortened for context by me.
  

As always, great analysis and thought.

Regarding Bortles, I kind of think that much of the media (social, national, local, etc.) got into his head.  While many players say that they don't look at the media, you know that they do.  They either see it online or on television.  Heck, just a couple of weeks ago one of the headline stories on CNN was about Bortles "being a bust".  This wasn't a sports website, it was a "news" website.

Like you, I'm not really a "mechanics" guy and it seems to me that his "issues" are all in his head.

For the near term, I hate to say it but Henne is probably the best option right now.  Will he solely win games for the Jaguars?  Absolutely not, but he won't lose them either (not saying Bortles is solely responsible for any past losses).

It's just my opinion, but Henne got a bad deal when he was the starting QB.  The roster then is nowhere close to the current roster.  I feel that with the right tools around him and a strong defense, the Jaguars could have a "successful" season.  "Successful" depends on expectation.

Regarding Bortles, this could be a blessing in disguise for us if Marrone's insistence on competition weed out the QBs that don't have what it takes psychologically to win us a championship.

Imagine if somehow we went to the Super Bowl with Bortles.  How would he withstand the two weeks of scrutiny and hype leading up to the game?  If he's pressing now, how would he perform under those circumstances...with the hopes of a franchise, a city, a fan base...and gamblers...riding on his shoulders?  I could see a Super Bowl blowout loss, in part because the pressure surrounding the game might be too much for him.

Regarding Henne, as I said earlier, he could be a far more effective QB than he has been if the running game is functioning well.

---

Can someone summarize the OP?

Sure...

Mel Brooks would be proud.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I keep thinking that once Brandon Allen finally does get his start, he's going to keep it and never look back. 

Seriously.  Whatever you're smoking right now, put it down.

---

Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I keep thinking that once Brandon Allen finally does get his start, he's going to keep it and never look back. 

Seriously.  Whatever you're smoking right now, put it down.

I recall years ago there was a poster that was convinced Quinn Gray was the answer if only Del Rio would give him a chance... Was that Jags02?

---

I keep thinking that once Brandon Allen finally does get his start, he's going to keep it and never look back. 

I think Henne and Bortles have a rough outing against Car. and Allen goes out there and shines agian.  The only negative with Allen is his height

---

Seriously.  Whatever you're smoking right now, put it down.

I recall years ago there was a poster that was convinced Quinn Gray was the answer if only Del Rio would give him a chance... Was that Jags02?

Perhaps. I was in agreement with The Mad Dog at the time that Quinn Gray was for real but never got a shot.

---

I keep thinking that once Brandon Allen finally does get his start, he's going to keep it and never look back. 

I think Henne and Bortles have a rough outing against Car. and Allen goes out there and shines agian.  The only negative with Allen is his height

Allen is 6'2"... it's not like he's Doug Flutie.

---

'02

Brunell was 6'1. So his height is not a problem. Wilson is below 6 foot. Drew Brees is 6 foot even.

---