I did watch the games. Saying it was all garbage time is admitting you did not watch them because we were not blown out 16 times.

I think you should watch for yourself. A lot of his TDs were late with the game out of reach.

Patently false statement. ^ 

There were only five or six TDs in 2015 that qualify as "late w/ the game out of reach." 

Anyone with a brain knows we need to upgrade the QB position, but he was productive in 2015 and it was not that much garbage time. 
They were just forced to pass 35 plus times frequently because they were behind on the scoreboard. In many of those games they took the lead or made it very close into the fourth quarter.

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I think you should watch for yourself. A lot of his TDs were late with the game out of reach.

Patently false statement. ^ 

There were only five or six TDs in 2015 that qualify as "late w/ the game out of reach." 

Anyone with a brain knows we need to upgrade the QB position, but he was productive in 2015 and it was not that much garbage time. 
They were just forced to pass 35 plus times frequently because they were behind on the scoreboard. In many of those games they took the lead or made it very close into the fourth quarter.

That is correct. Anyone who watched the games knows most of our losses were by 7 points or less because of a few mistakes here and there, not terrible performances by the QB. It is obvious we need to get another QB. It is also obvious Blake Bortles is the best QB we have now.

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I think you should watch for yourself. A lot of his TDs were late with the game out of reach.

Patently false statement. ^ 

There were only five or six TDs in 2015 that qualify as "late w/ the game out of reach." 

Anyone with a brain knows we need to upgrade the QB position, but he was productive in 2015 and it was not that much garbage time. 
They were just forced to pass 35 plus times frequently because they were behind on the scoreboard. In many of those games they took the lead or made it very close into the fourth quarter.

Watch again. I saw every game. They were garbage.

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Patently false statement. ^ 

There were only five or six TDs in 2015 that qualify as "late w/ the game out of reach." 

Anyone with a brain knows we need to upgrade the QB position, but he was productive in 2015 and it was not that much garbage time. 
They were just forced to pass 35 plus times frequently because they were behind on the scoreboard. In many of those games they took the lead or made it very close into the fourth quarter.

Watch again. I saw every game. They were garbage.

How do you explain the fact that we were close in nearly every game, being just a few plays away from winning each of our losses? If you watch every game, you would know why.

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That why you watch the games and not look at scores to tell you what actually happened.

The opponents don't care if you score late when they know they've got the game.

The defense helped keep games close.

He only took command of the team and drove them down field once and that was against NY. And the defense played the biggest part of that game.

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That why you watch the games and not look at scores to tell you what actually happened.

The opponents don't care if you score late when they know they've got the game.

The defense helped keep games close.

He only took command of the team and drove them down field once and that was against NY. And the defense played the biggest part of that game.

Not to mention all the garbage passes, way too many jump balls that ARob (mainly) and co. bailed him out on. He has never passed the eye test in the pure passing ability category, ever. I said it in 2015 when so many were anointing him already, though hoped I was wrong. Well, I wasn’t, unfortunately. The dude just can’t throw at an NFL level.

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That why you watch the games and not look at scores to tell you what actually happened.

The opponents don't care if you score late when they know they've got the game.

The defense helped keep games close.

He only took command of the team and drove them down field once and that was against NY. And the defense played the biggest part of that game.

Not to mention all the garbage passes, way too many jump balls that ARob (mainly) and co. bailed him out on. He has never passed the eye test in the pure passing ability category, ever. I said it in 2015 when so many were anointing him already, though hoped I was wrong. Well, I wasn’t, unfortunately. The dude just can’t throw at an NFL level.

Preach. At least we have 4 fans that have actually watch him play. 

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What level of play is expected of a franchise qb? Outside of the likes of Brady and manning they all regularly play garbage and commit turnovers when they need to carry their team

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Also how come Big Ben didn't put up any garbage against us? Or Flacco? Both games well in hand against franchise qbs. Surely some easy garbage

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What level of play is expected of a franchise qb? Outside of the likes of Brady and manning they all regularly play garbage and commit turnovers when they need to carry their team

Forget “franchise” qb at this point, let’s just start with an “acceptable NFL” qb. For starters, how about that qb being able to consistently step into a throw that’s non-lobbed, non-duck, semi-tight ball with some zip, oh and on target at least 60+% of the time.  We can work on the mental parts thereafter, like much better ability to read defenses, not staring down receivers, etc....... we’ve generally got an athletic good guy otherwise, but those are some killer misses for any NFL qb prospect, much less a #3 pick overall (thanks DC!)

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What level of play is expected of a franchise qb? Outside of the likes of Brady and manning they all regularly play garbage and commit turnovers when they need to carry their team

Forget “franchise” qb at this point, let’s just start with an “acceptable NFL” qb. For starters, how about that qb being able to consistently step into a throw that’s non-lobbed, non-duck, semi-tight ball with some zip, oh and on target at least 60+% of the time.  We can work on the mental parts thereafter, like much better ability to read defenses, not staring down receivers, etc....... we’ve generally got an athletic good guy otherwise, but those are some killer misses for any NFL qb prospect, much less a #3 pick overall (thanks DC!)

OK but can you list some of these players who are accurate and consistently play well? Rivers,Eli,Palmer,Flacco,Big Ben etc all regularly have poor games and are only a Superbowl threat when they had elite defences.

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What level of play is expected of a franchise qb? Outside of the likes of Brady and manning they all regularly play garbage and commit turnovers when they need to carry their team

Forget “franchise” qb at this point, let’s just start with an “acceptable NFL” qb. For starters, how about that qb being able to consistently step into a throw that’s non-lobbed, non-duck, semi-tight ball with some zip, oh and on target at least 60+% of the time.  We can work on the mental parts thereafter, like much better ability to read defenses, not staring down receivers, etc....... we’ve generally got an athletic good guy otherwise, but those are some killer misses for any NFL qb prospect, much less a #3 pick overall (thanks DC!)

you sound real salty my man

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The 3 wins this year came when the defense held the opponent to 9 or less points. Decent QB play probably would have won the jets game. I really have no idea why some are defending Blake. But, whatever, we won’t have to hear from them next year.

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I think one of the biggest problems in the NFL for the past decade or so has been that teams have bought into the idea that you have to have a franchise QB to win.   The problem is, there are only about a dozen franchise QBs, but teams have gone all out trying to find a "franchise QB" and then they draft a guy and throw him into an offense that is designed for a franchise QB, as if they actually had one.   They want to throw the ball all over the place, because "that's the way it's done, that's the way the Patriots do it, etc etc."  

Teams are copycats, they copy whatever works for someone else.  No one has an original idea.  QB after QB fails because they are asked to do too much.  Teams draft a QB high in the first round, then try to build a team around them, assuming they got the right guy, when the odds that they actually got such a guy are very slim.  

Teams are doomed to failure if they insist on implementing a QB-centric offense when there are only a small handful of QBs in the league who can successfully run such an offense.  

Someday teams will wake up to the fact that that basket of high draft picks they traded to draft that over-hyped college QB could have been better used to build a butt-kicking offensive line that almost ANY QB could succeed behind.

And as far as Blake Bortles goes, right now, all he has to do is keep defenses honest.  He's going to have to drop back occasionally and throw one over the head of the defense in order to back them off the line of scrimmage.  I think he's capable of that.

Superbowl winners since the '90s. How many won without a franchise QB?

XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 Superdome (New Orleans) San Francisco 55, Denver 10
XXV Jan. 27, 1991 Tampa (Fla.) Stadium New York Giants 20, Buffalo 19
XXVI Jan. 26, 1992 Metrodome (Minneapolis) Washington 37, Buffalo 24
XXVII Jan. 31, 1993 Rose Bowl (Pasadena, Calif.) Dallas 52, Buffalo 17
XXVIII Jan. 30, 1994 Georgia Dome (Atlanta) Dallas 30, Buffalo 13
XXIX Jan. 29, 1995 Joe Robbie Stadium (Miami) San Francisco 49, San Diego 26
XXX Jan. 28, 1996 Sun Devil Stadium (Tempe, Ariz.) Dallas 27, Pittsburgh 17
XXXI Jan. 26, 1997 Superdome (New Orleans) Green Bay 35, New England 21
XXXII Jan. 25, 1998 Qualcomm Stadium (San Diego) Denver 31, Green Bay 24
XXXIII Jan. 31, 1999 Pro Player Stadium (Miami) Denver 34, Atlanta 19
XXXIV Jan. 30, 2000 Georgia Dome (Atlanta) St. Louis 23, Tennessee 16
XXXV Jan. 28, 2001 Raymond James Stadium (Tampa, Fla.) Baltimore 34, New York Giants 7
XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 Superdome (New Orleans) New England 20, St. Louis 17
XXXVII Jan. 26, 2003 Qualcomm Stadium (San Diego) Tampa Bay 48, Oakland 21
XXXVIII Feb. 1, 2004 Reliant Stadium (Houston) New England 32, Carolina 29
XXXIX Feb. 6, 2005 Alltel Stadium (Jacksonville, Fla.) New England 24, Philadelphia 21
XL Feb. 5, 2006 Ford Field (Detroit) Pittsburgh 21, Seattle 10
XLI Feb. 4, 2007 Dolphin Stadium (Miami) Indianapolis 29, Chicago 17
XLII Feb. 3, 2008 University of Phoenix Stadium (Glendale, Ariz.) New York Giants 17, New England 14
XLIII Feb. 1, 2009 Raymond James Stadium (Tampa, Fla.) Pittsburgh Steelers 27, Arizona Cardinals 23
XLIV Feb. 7, 2010 Sun Life Stadium (Miami) New Orleans Saints 31, Indianapolis Colts 17
XLV Feb. 6, 2011 Cowboys Stadium (Arlington, Texas) Green Bay Packers 31, Pittsburgh Steelers 25
XLVI Feb. 5, 2012 Lucas Oil Stadium (Indianapolis) New York Giants 21, New England Patriots 17
XLVII Feb. 3, 2013 Mercedes-Benz Superdome (New Orleans) Baltimore Ravens 34, San Francisco 49ers 31
XLVIII Feb. 2, 2014 MetLife Stadium (East Rutherford, N.J.) Seattle Seahawks 43, Denver Broncos 8
XLIX Feb. 1, 2015 University of Phoenix Stadium (Glendale, Ariz.) New England Patriots 28, Seattle Seahawks 24
50 Feb. 7, 2016 Levi's Stadium (Santa Clara, Calif.) Denver Broncos 24, Carolina Panthers 10
LI Feb. 5, 2017 NRG Stadium (Houston) New England Patriots 34, Atlanta Falcons 28

1) No doubt a team is much better when they have a great QB.  It's a lot easier to win a Super Bowl when you have great players, and QB is the most important position.  But,

2) There is a long list of average to below average QBs in that list.  

There are also a lot of QBs in that list that are considered elite only because they won a Super Bowl, but are really just average or above average.  It's a kind of circular reasoning: you have to have an elite QB to win a Super Bowl.  How does a QB become considered elite?  Win a Super Bowl.  Circular reasoning.  

You can also make a list of franchise QBs who never won a Super Bowl. 

You can also make a list of QBs who would have been considered great if they had gone to a good team, but floundered and got beat to death on a bad team. 

You can also make a looong list of QBs who have been drafted in the top 5 and busted.  Remember Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Donovan McNabb, 1-2-3?   McNabb was better than average, the other two were busts.  

My point is that very often teams are too desperate to find a franchise QB.  They often waste resources that could be better spent building the rest of the team.  Which would you rather have: a great QB on an average team, or an average QB on a great team?   You'll get about the same result from either of those.  But to me, it's easier to build a great team and find an average QB than it is to find a great QB and build an average team.

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Forget “franchise” qb at this point, let’s just start with an “acceptable NFL” qb. For starters, how about that qb being able to consistently step into a throw that’s non-lobbed, non-duck, semi-tight ball with some zip, oh and on target at least 60+% of the time.  We can work on the mental parts thereafter, like much better ability to read defenses, not staring down receivers, etc....... we’ve generally got an athletic good guy otherwise, but those are some killer misses for any NFL qb prospect, much less a #3 pick overall (thanks DC!)

you sound real salty my man

Yep, after being a fan from franchise award date, I’m pretty tired of a decade of sucking while listening to qb sunshine pumpers praise or pretend we’ve got somebody we don’t. Salty? You betcha.

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Forget “franchise” qb at this point, let’s just start with an “acceptable NFL” qb. For starters, how about that qb being able to consistently step into a throw that’s non-lobbed, non-duck, semi-tight ball with some zip, oh and on target at least 60+% of the time.  We can work on the mental parts thereafter, like much better ability to read defenses, not staring down receivers, etc....... we’ve generally got an athletic good guy otherwise, but those are some killer misses for any NFL qb prospect, much less a #3 pick overall (thanks DC!)

OK but can you list some of these players who are accurate and consistently play well? Rivers,Eli,Palmer,Flacco,Big Ben etc all regularly have poor games and are only a Superbowl threat
when they had elite defences.

Of course, they all have bad games, but Bortles consistently throws bad (that’s not changing) and makes bad decisions. That’s not debatable, at least if we are having an intellectually honest discussion. Are you actually comparing Bortles ability as — passing/decision making/leadership — to those players’ overall body of work?  He’s not on the same page..

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The 3 wins this year came when the defense held the opponent to 9 or less points.  Decent QB play probably would have won the jets game.   I really have no idea why some are defending Blake.   But, whatever, we won’t have to hear from them next year.

So lee didn't cost us the game by not catching the ball or myers missing a 50 yd field goal or benn holding on Blake's game winner pass to Fournette? I guess you miss those things while being salty about the qb play and if Blake here or not next i'm still a Jaguar fan overall and has been one since November 30th 1993 and season ticket holder since 1997.

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OK but can you list some of these players who are accurate and consistently play well? Rivers,Eli,Palmer,Flacco,Big Ben etc all regularly have poor games and are only a Superbowl threat
when they had elite defences.

Of course, they all have bad games, but Bortles consistently throws bad (that’s not changing) and makes bad decisions. That’s not debatable, at least if we are having an intellectually honest discussion. Are you actually comparing Bortles ability as — passing/decision making/leadership — to those players’ overall body of work?  He’s not on the same page..

I want to have this intellectual conversation with you so please name the bad throws he has this year and as far as turnovers they are down from previous years. I think you're letting your perception of Blake get in the way of the reality of him and the other qb's around the league. So you like Phillip Rivers ability but he has more turnovers, and less wins than Blake but perception doesn't match reality in his can right?

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The 3 wins this year came when the defense held the opponent to 9 or less points.  Decent QB play probably would have won the jets game.   I really have no idea why some are defending Blake.   But, whatever, we won’t have to hear from them next year.

So lee didn't cost us the game by not catching the ball or myers missing a 50 yd field goal or benn holding on Blake's game winner pass to Fournette? I guess you miss those things while being salty about the qb play and if Blake here or not next i'm still a Jaguar fan overall and has been one since November 30th 1993 and season ticket holder since 1997.

Hahaha this is hilarious.

So we can't question Blake and be a fan at the same time? Understand this sentence: People are rooting for Blake to succeed while at the same time understanding the QB position can be upgraded.

Blake is doing the bare minimum here and it's quite obvious. Sure, Lee could have made that catch and Benns hold was BS but Blake could have also not thrown the interception which led to 3 points. He could hit receivers in stride every once in a while. He could do lots of things better.

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So lee didn't cost us the game by not catching the ball or myers missing a 50 yd field goal or benn holding on Blake's game winner pass to Fournette? I guess you miss those things while being salty about the qb play and if Blake here or not next i'm still a Jaguar fan overall and has been one since November 30th 1993 and season ticket holder since 1997.

Hahaha this is hilarious.

So we can't question Blake and be a fan at the same time? Understand this sentence: People are rooting for Blake to succeed while at the same time understanding the QB position can be upgraded.

Blake is doing the bare minimum here and it's quite obvious. Sure, Lee could have made that catch and Benns hold was BS but Blake could have also not thrown the interception which led to 3 points. He could hit receivers in stride every once in a while. He could do lots of things better.

You misunderstood my last post i'm saying that since i'm being accused of being a blake supporter which i am because he plays for this franchise i'm making the point of i will still be a fan of this franchise regardless if he's here on this roster or moved on elsewhere. We can question, dissect, defend and analyze this team as many way as we like and this message board gives us the platform to do it. I'm not questioning anybody's fanhood but i just wanted to make mines clear base on the resentment i get on here for defending blake at times. I do agree with you that his play can be better and the coaching staff needs to let him sink or swin and stop playing so scared all the time.

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Hahaha this is hilarious.

So we can't question Blake and be a fan at the same time? Understand this sentence: People are rooting for Blake to succeed while at the same time understanding the QB position can be upgraded.

Blake is doing the bare minimum here and it's quite obvious. Sure, Lee could have made that catch and Benns hold was BS but Blake could have also not thrown the interception which led to 3 points. He could hit receivers in stride every once in a while. He could do lots of things better.

You misunderstood my last post i'm saying that since i'm being accused of being a blake supporter which i am because he plays for this franchise i'm making the point of i will still be a fan of this franchise regardless if he's here on this roster or moved on elsewhere. We can question, dissect, defend and analyze this team as many way as we like and this message board gives us the platform to do it. I'm not questioning anybody's fanhood but i just wanted to make mines clear base on the resentment i get on here for defending blake at times. I do agree with you that his play can be better and the coaching staff needs to let him sink or swin and stop playing so scared all the time.

Sink or swim? Did you not watch Blake when they took the reigns off? He throws pick 6's. He turns it over way more than he does if they keep the reigns on him.

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