Wow, this guy (Billsfan) would have been a straight Gene koolaid sipper if he was a jag fan. You had a team 3 games over 500 and you trade away the best DT for peanuts supposedly for 'culture' and then watch your run D plummet. Then you bench a decent QB (Taylor) for a rookie who is way out of his league and suffer a huge loss. And you are defending these moves? They are straight asinine. This is the opposite of what a winning team is supposed to do, you guys won't even get to a Rex Ryan 8-8 at this point.

The dysfunction probably goes deeper than the front office at this point. You have to think the owners are just trying to lose with some of the moves that have been made.

Man... you just dont get it. When things are as bad as they are for the Bills and they have seemingly tried EVERYTHING except admitting what you are doing isnt working with buying shortcuts ETC - its refreshing to see a tandum come in and be given the time to construct a roster the way they want. The hope is they knew what they were doing and were a big part of Carolinas success (they sure werent happy to loose either) and maybe given time they can catch lightning in a bottle and repeat the success achived in CAR. Again, what good is backing in the playoffs at 8-8 and losing in the 1st round? its counterproductive in the big picture. Theyve got 2 1st round picks, 2 2nd, a third (as the other turned into Benjiman) and a myriad of other picks, meanwhile sport one of the oldest rosters that lacks depth. Sure, theres a contingent who just want the playoff moneky off their back. Again, I wanna be GOOD. We've been 8-8, 9-7, 7-9. Been there, done that. Anything worth while is going to take a couple years and part of the process is 'fixing' the previous regimes mistakes. When you understand the goal is sustained success - not just a flash in the pan being slightly above avg for one year. Isnt part of the JAGs success due to a roster thats been infused with quality (generally high) young draft choices and then over times complimenting the roster with quality role players? You guys didnt just wake up one day with a good team. Rebuilding is actually a thing, and you guys actually want to argue with me about it? You had to deal with sub par seasons that enabled you to amass quality young talent. If you take that into account, your above statment seems a little hypocritical. If thats NOT how you guys achived your success, I'll listen as well because i understand being an armchair scount to a team that 1,037.6 miles away might need to be deferred to people in the thick of it. Meanwhile, you guys seem to think that not only is your football team good, but it entitles you to deicde in an all mighty fashion how other teams are run to... and I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk. I just dont understand how some of you feel so entitled to criticizing something you dont understand. If you feel the need to stick it to me, fine. Childish, but I get it. I guess I also get to take into account that in over 2,230 posts you somehow have achieved less rep points than other quality posters on here with MANY less posts, and maybe by engaging its my own fault....quality discussions can happen with out being so insulting - I PROMISE. Lets try. Respond without being condescending, overtly negative, holier than thou or simply just being a jerk.... But come on... lets be real here...

---

Sounds like alot of words to defend a really bad decision by your HC

---

Wow, this guy (Billsfan) would have been a straight Gene koolaid sipper if he was a jag fan. You had a team 3 games over 500 and you trade away the best DT for peanuts supposedly for 'culture' and then watch your run D plummet. Then you bench a decent QB (Taylor) for a rookie who is way out of his league and suffer a huge loss. And you are defending these moves? They are straight asinine. This is the opposite of what a winning team is supposed to do, you guys won't even get to a Rex Ryan 8-8 at this point.

The dysfunction probably goes deeper than the front office at this point. You have to think the owners are just trying to lose with some of the moves that have been made.

Man... you just dont get it. When things are as bad as they are for the Bills and they have seemingly tried EVERYTHING except admitting what you are doing isnt working with buying shortcuts ETC - its refreshing to see a tandum come in and be given the time to construct a roster the way they want. The hope is they knew what they were doing and were a big part of Carolinas success (they sure werent happy to loose either) and maybe given time they can catch lightning in a bottle and repeat the success achived in CAR. Again, what good is backing in the playoffs at 8-8 and losing in the 1st round? its counterproductive in the big picture. Theyve got 2 1st round picks, 2 2nd, a third (as the other turned into Benjiman) and a myriad of other picks, meanwhile sport one of the oldest rosters that lacks depth. Sure, theres a contingent who just want the playoff moneky off their back. Again, I wanna be GOOD. We've been 8-8, 9-7, 7-9. Been there, done that. Anything worth while is going to take a couple years and part of the process is 'fixing' the previous regimes mistakes. When you understand the goal is sustained success - not just a flash in the pan being slightly above avg for one year. Isnt part of the JAGs success due to a roster thats been infused with quality (generally high) young draft choices and then over times complimenting the roster with quality role players? You guys didnt just wake up one day with a good team. Rebuilding is actually a thing, and you guys actually want to argue with me about it? You had to deal with sub par seasons that enabled you to amass quality young talent. If you take that into account, your above statment seems a little hypocritical. If thats NOT how you guys achived your success, I'll listen as well because i understand being an armchair scount to a team that 1,037.6 miles away might need to be deferred to people in the thick of it. Meanwhile, you guys seem to think that not only is your football team good, but it entitles you to deicde in an all mighty fashion how other teams are run to... and I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk. I just dont understand how some of you feel so entitled to criticizing something you dont understand. If you feel the need to stick it to me, fine. Childish, but I get it. I guess I also get to take into account that in over 2,230 posts you somehow have achieved less rep points than other quality posters on here with MANY less posts, and maybe by engaging its my own fault....quality discussions can happen with out being so insulting - I PROMISE. Lets try. Respond without being condescending, overtly negative, holier than thou or simply just being a jerk.... But come on... lets be real here...

Lets be real here... How do you think these off the wall decisions are going to impact your organization moving forward? I'll tell you...

The good players you refused to pay would have been cheaper to keep than the money you'll have thrown out there to get mediocre players to even consider the Bills. These atrocious personnel decisions leave doubt and eliminate front office trust. Money is all that will be heard. Your organization will muddle around with a free agency swinging door while trying to find a QB to mask the glaring issues. This will lag on for a while as you attempt to hit on draft picks. But you already know this because the Bills have been doing it since 2005.

You should go back and review our history the last five years before sticking with your argument and being quite hypocritical in YOUR condescending tone. The Jags did some things right, but ours certainly isn't the model to follow. In any case, I know it may seem foreign to you, but fans of other teams can be fans of the NFL in general and be knowledgeable of other players and operations. Demanding your opinion is the only one that matters without even considering our perspective, especially what personnel hell we've been through, is quite frankly you being a jerk!

Hypocritical, Armchair, all mighty, entitled, childish, holier than thou, jerk... And I wondered why folks were starting to ignore you! Hard to have a quality discussion as you say, when your posts are overflowing with such descriptives and you demand that your opinions are the only one that matters because we are 1,037.6 miles away. If all else fails, attempt to use post counts and rep points as a quality control indicator! LOL

---

Rep points!  


Keep it coming BillsFan! You’re fencing-riding homer hot takes are the best entertainment on the board. 


Tell us more about how your regime is purposefully trying to dodge the playoffs 

---

Man... you just dont get it. When things are as bad as they are for the Bills and they have seemingly tried EVERYTHING except admitting what you are doing isnt working with buying shortcuts ETC - its refreshing to see a tandum come in and be given the time to construct a roster the way they want. The hope is they knew what they were doing and were a big part of Carolinas success (they sure werent happy to loose either) and maybe given time they can catch lightning in a bottle and repeat the success achived in CAR. Again, what good is backing in the playoffs at 8-8 and losing in the 1st round? its counterproductive in the big picture. Theyve got 2 1st round picks, 2 2nd, a third (as the other turned into Benjiman) and a myriad of other picks, meanwhile sport one of the oldest rosters that lacks depth. Sure, theres a contingent who just want the playoff moneky off their back. Again, I wanna be GOOD. We've been 8-8, 9-7, 7-9. Been there, done that. Anything worth while is going to take a couple years and part of the process is 'fixing' the previous regimes mistakes. When you understand the goal is sustained success - not just a flash in the pan being slightly above avg for one year. Isnt part of the JAGs success due to a roster thats been infused with quality (generally high) young draft choices and then over times complimenting the roster with quality role players? You guys didnt just wake up one day with a good team. Rebuilding is actually a thing, and you guys actually want to argue with me about it? You had to deal with sub par seasons that enabled you to amass quality young talent. If you take that into account, your above statment seems a little hypocritical. If thats NOT how you guys achived your success, I'll listen as well because i understand being an armchair scount to a team that 1,037.6 miles away might need to be deferred to people in the thick of it. Meanwhile, you guys seem to think that not only is your football team good, but it entitles you to deicde in an all mighty fashion how other teams are run to... and I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk. I just dont understand how some of you feel so entitled to criticizing something you dont understand. If you feel the need to stick it to me, fine. Childish, but I get it. I guess I also get to take into account that in over 2,230 posts you somehow have achieved less rep points than other quality posters on here with MANY less posts, and maybe by engaging its my own fault....quality discussions can happen with out being so insulting - I PROMISE. Lets try. Respond without being condescending, overtly negative, holier than thou or simply just being a jerk.... But come on... lets be real here...

Lets be real here... How do you think these off the wall decisions are going to impact your organization moving forward? I'll tell you...

The good players you refused to pay would have been cheaper to keep than the money you'll have thrown out there to get mediocre players to even consider the Bills. These atrocious personnel decisions leave doubt and eliminate front office trust. Money is all that will be heard. Your organization will muddle around with a free agency swinging door while trying to find a QB to mask the glaring issues. This will lag on for a while as you attempt to hit on draft picks. But you already know this because the Bills have been doing it since 2005.

You should go back and review our history the last five years before sticking with your argument and being quite hypocritical in YOUR condescending tone. The Jags did some things right, but ours certainly isn't the model to follow. In any case, I know it may seem foreign to you, but fans of other teams can be fans of the NFL in general and be knowledgeable of other players and operations. Demanding your opinion is the only one that matters without even considering our perspective, especially what personnel hell we've been through, is quite frankly you being a jerk!

Hypocritical, Armchair, all mighty, entitled, childish, holier than thou, jerk... And I wondered why folks were starting to ignore you! Hard to have a quality discussion as you say, when your posts are overflowing with such descriptives and you demand that your opinions are the only one that matters because we are 1,037.6 miles away. If all else fails, attempt to use post counts and rep points as a quality control indicator! LOL

Again, glad you arent in charge..... 
Lets be real, I'm PRETTY SURE - infact I'm positive!!! That I said if thats not how this occured, tell me! You'd know!!! Right after contributing my speculation, the next thing I wrote was my take based on the limited amount of Jags slanted articles Ive read maybe not be what actually happend. 
The fact you simply illustrated my point of the ignorance is simply maddening!!! The Bolded statement proves my point better than I ever could!
I have the sense to defer after a Jags take and your bolded take is your response... If i could shake your hand I would. 
I'm the one telling YOU how YOUR team is? I'm starting to think you arent even reading my essays.  
Heres the score- some folks here contribute an incorrect take that isnt opinion and non debatable while making fun of the Bills.
With no sarcasm and totally good hearted, I set the record straight in a respectful manner offering an explanation and insight.
Rather than have an excellent conversation exchanging points and insight - people would rather be inconsiderate and insult which derails any potential conversation. Whats does that say about these people? They come to a message board to heckle and bicker at the expense of a potential excellent conversation. This isnt even about Taylor anymore bc everyone just wants to argue and puff out their chest when the reality is, like it or not, I'm prob the only one (mmmaaayybbbeeee someone who has him in fantasy) thats actually paid attention to him (and the Bills) over the last 3 years let alone watched each and every snap multiple times. And its not a pissing contest, but if im sick, i dont go to web md - i go to a DR because they know whats up.
In turn, im told im crazy,wrong, and my franchise is pathetic.
I make essentially the exact same statement but reverse to prove my point - and you come along and correct me... Which I knew would happen.
I made a statement on how the Jags came to be and am immediately corrected lol. I'd hope someone would tell me how it was just as I'd hope you'd at least hear me out with a Bills take. It's asinine in a sense
So now, this select few are experts on both the Jags and the Bills? And I'm supposed to take this seriously? .

Like I've said before, some great dudes/women on here. But of the 20 or so boards I visit when my team plays them this is far and away the most unwelcoming. 
I have a feeling it would have been in years past - but a half season of success seems to have gone to a few of your heads. Thats cool, enjoy it. I wish my team looked like yours do... but act like you've been there before.


Do you think I just magically showed up and started trying to troll you folks?
If the answer is yes - well - this is why things have gotten the way they have bc thats certianly not the case.
Do you not see the goading thats taken place simply because I'm a fan of another team? If not, your a bigger homer than the rest of them!
Bottom line is, I'm not going to sit here and listen to Jags fans tell me whats right and wrong with my football team like they are in tune with the situation when really they are off base and just simply egging me on. 
Having conversations with opposing teams is such a great thing because it is a great educator to how people think and whats going on around the league. 
I think is crazy over on the skins board there are people that actually dont like cousins. The rest of the league seems to, but unless you REALLY like football you arent going to watch every skins game to understand and see what their issues are.  Thats when the hometeam insight is helpful. 

I've been humble, I've admitted when I've been incorrect, I've been insightful, and I've been informative. When poked, I've poked back. I cant help you take offense to me sticking up for myself to another poster. If you've got something that adds to conversation with out being insulting - i invite you to contribute.
But dont call me out and then be a hypocrite less than 2 sentences later.

PS, isnt the entire point of the reputation for essentially 'liking' when someone offers a quality take? I'd say thats not a half bad way to measure what someone has to offer. I've hit quite a few rep buttons for good posts i found interesting or informative. Seems like thats kinda the point....

---

Lets be real here... How do you think these off the wall decisions are going to impact your organization moving forward? I'll tell you...

The good players you refused to pay would have been cheaper to keep than the money you'll have thrown out there to get mediocre players to even consider the Bills. These atrocious personnel decisions leave doubt and eliminate front office trust. Money is all that will be heard. Your organization will muddle around with a free agency swinging door while trying to find a QB to mask the glaring issues. This will lag on for a while as you attempt to hit on draft picks. But you already know this because the Bills have been doing it since 2005.

You should go back and review our history the last five years before sticking with your argument and being quite hypocritical in YOUR condescending tone. The Jags did some things right, but ours certainly isn't the model to follow. In any case, I know it may seem foreign to you, but fans of other teams can be fans of the NFL in general and be knowledgeable of other players and operations. Demanding your opinion is the only one that matters without even considering our perspective, especially what personnel hell we've been through, is quite frankly you being a jerk!

Hypocritical, Armchair, all mighty, entitled, childish, holier than thou, jerk... And I wondered why folks were starting to ignore you! Hard to have a quality discussion as you say, when your posts are overflowing with such descriptives and you demand that your opinions are the only one that matters because we are 1,037.6 miles away. If all else fails, attempt to use post counts and rep points as a quality control indicator! LOL

Again, glad you arent in charge..... 
Lets be real, I'm PRETTY SURE - infact I'm positive!!! That I said if thats not how this occured, tell me! You'd know!!! Right after contributing my speculation, the next thing I wrote was my take based on the limited amount of Jags slanted articles Ive read maybe not be what actually happend. 
The fact you simply illustrated my point of the ignorance is simply maddening!!!
Heres the score- some folks here contribute an incorrect take that isnt opinion and non debatable while making fun of the Bills.
With no sarcasm and totally good heartedness, Set the record straight in a respectful manner offering an explanation and insight.
In turn, im told im crazy,wrong, and my franchise is pathetic.
I make essentially the exact same statement but reverse to prove my point - and you come along and correct me... Which I knew would happen.
I made a statement on how the Jags came to be and am immediately corrected lol. I'd hope someone would tell me how it was just as I'd hope you'd at least hear me out with a Bills take. Its asinine in a sense
So now, this select few are experts on both the Jags and the Bills? And I'm supposed to take this seriously? This is a complete crap show.

Like I've said before, some great dudes/women on here. But of the 20 or so boards I visit when my team plays them this is far and away the most unwelcoming. 
I have a feeling it would have been in years past - but a half season of success seems to have gone to a few of your heads. Thats cool, enjoy it. I wish my team looked like yours do... but act like you've been there before.


Do you think I just magically showed up and started trying to troll you folks?
If the answer is yes - well - this is why things have gotten the way they have bc thats certianly not the case.
Do you not see the goading thats taken place simply because I'm a fan of another team? If not, your a bigger homer than the rest of them!
Bottom line is, I'm not going to sit here and listen to Jags fans tell me whats right and wrong with my football team like they are in tune with the situation when really they are off base and just simply egging me on. 
Having conversations with opposing teams is such a great thing because it is a great educator to how people think and whats going on around the league. 
I think is crazy over on the skins board there are people that actually dont like cousins. The rest of the league seems to, but unless you REALLY like football you arent going to watch every skins game to understand and see what their issues are.  Thats when the hometeam insight is helpful. 

I've been humble, I've admitted when I've been incorrect, I've been insightful, and I've been informative. When poked, I've poked back. I cant help you take offense to me sticking up for myself to another poster. If you've got something that adds to conversation with out being insulting - i invite you to contribute.
But dont call me out and then be a hypocrite less than 2 sentences later.

PS, isnt the entire point of the reputation for essentially 'liking' when someone offers a quality take? I'd say thats not a half bad way to measure what someone has to offer. I've hit quite a few rep buttons for good posts i found interesting or informative. Seems like thats kinda the point....

I'm trying to understand through all your jabs. I'll admit, most of your stuff is just too long to read, and I'm sure you've made some good points along the way. It seems you type these novels just to say you are okay with the Bills starting from the bottom again and building through the draft. No? You like the direction of the front office because winning hurts draft position? If so, that's a lot of hope placed in drafting well, and that's been very sporadic for a while. Going to take a while to build a core, add from the draft and supplement from F.A. You don't find it maddening that this nonsense has been going on for a while and just when you start to get core guys, they are chased away? What about the necessity to groom young players? It feels like the front office is deciding like they're playing Madden. You're okay with possibly another five years or more of rebuilding while begging older, overpaid castoffs to field a team?

Anyways, I'm done posting in here. This thread topic appears to have run its course.

The Bills are genuinely "blowing it up" and rebuilding with no foundation. Going to be painful.

---

not my posts, but just a little perspective on the above comment and give it context MR Achilles

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/...o-realize/

Just because another two-bit, know-nothing billsfan has the same delusional take as you, doesn't make it right.

---

Man... you just dont get it. When things are as bad as they are for the Bills and they have seemingly tried EVERYTHING except admitting what you are doing isnt working with buying shortcuts ETC - its refreshing to see a tandum come in and be given the time to construct a roster the way they want. The hope is they knew what they were doing and were a big part of Carolinas success (they sure werent happy to loose either) and maybe given time they can catch lightning in a bottle and repeat the success achived in CAR. Again, what good is backing in the playoffs at 8-8 and losing in the 1st round? its counterproductive in the big picture. Theyve got 2 1st round picks, 2 2nd, a third (as the other turned into Benjiman) and a myriad of other picks, meanwhile sport one of the oldest rosters that lacks depth. Sure, theres a contingent who just want the playoff moneky off their back. Again, I wanna be GOOD. We've been 8-8, 9-7, 7-9. Been there, done that. Anything worth while is going to take a couple years and part of the process is 'fixing' the previous regimes mistakes. When you understand the goal is sustained success - not just a flash in the pan being slightly above avg for one year. Isnt part of the JAGs success due to a roster thats been infused with quality (generally high) young draft choices and then over times complimenting the roster with quality role players? You guys didnt just wake up one day with a good team. Rebuilding is actually a thing, and you guys actually want to argue with me about it? You had to deal with sub par seasons that enabled you to amass quality young talent. If you take that into account, your above statment seems a little hypocritical. If thats NOT how you guys achived your success, I'll listen as well because i understand being an armchair scount to a team that 1,037.6 miles away might need to be deferred to people in the thick of it. Meanwhile, you guys seem to think that not only is your football team good, but it entitles you to deicde in an all mighty fashion how other teams are run to... and I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk. I just dont understand how some of you feel so entitled to criticizing something you dont understand. If you feel the need to stick it to me, fine. Childish, but I get it. I guess I also get to take into account that in over 2,230 posts you somehow have achieved less rep points than other quality posters on here with MANY less posts, and maybe by engaging its my own fault....quality discussions can happen with out being so insulting - I PROMISE. Lets try. Respond without being condescending, overtly negative, holier than thou or simply just being a jerk.... But come on... lets be real here...

Lets be real here... How do you think these off the wall decisions are going to impact your organization moving forward? I'll tell you...

The good players you refused to pay would have been cheaper to keep than the money you'll have thrown out there to get mediocre players to even consider the Bills. These atrocious personnel decisions leave doubt and eliminate front office trust. Money is all that will be heard. Your organization will muddle around with a free agency swinging door while trying to find a QB to mask the glaring issues. This will lag on for a while as you attempt to hit on draft picks. But you already know this because the Bills have been doing it since 2005.

You should go back and review our history the last five years before sticking with your argument and being quite hypocritical in YOUR condescending tone. The Jags did some things right, but ours certainly isn't the model to follow. In any case, I know it may seem foreign to you, but fans of other teams can be fans of the NFL in general and be knowledgeable of other players and operations. Demanding your opinion is the only one that matters without even considering our perspective, especially what personnel hell we've been through, is quite frankly you being a jerk!

Hypocritical, Armchair, all mighty, entitled, childish, holier than thou, jerk... And I wondered why folks were starting to ignore you! Hard to have a quality discussion as you say, when your posts are overflowing with such descriptives and you demand that your opinions are the only one that matters because we are 1,037.6 miles away. If all else fails, attempt to use post counts and rep points as a quality control indicator! LOL

Just for posterity I live 5 hours from Buffalo and have seen the majority of their games for the past few years.

---

Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Again, glad you arent in charge..... 
Lets be real, I'm PRETTY SURE - infact I'm positive!!! That I said if thats not how this occured, tell me! You'd know!!! Right after contributing my speculation, the next thing I wrote was my take based on the limited amount of Jags slanted articles Ive read maybe not be what actually happend. 
The fact you simply illustrated my point of the ignorance is simply maddening!!!
Heres the score- some folks here contribute an incorrect take that isnt opinion and non debatable while making fun of the Bills.
With no sarcasm and totally good heartedness, Set the record straight in a respectful manner offering an explanation and insight.
In turn, im told im crazy,wrong, and my franchise is pathetic.
I make essentially the exact same statement but reverse to prove my point - and you come along and correct me... Which I knew would happen.
I made a statement on how the Jags came to be and am immediately corrected lol. I'd hope someone would tell me how it was just as I'd hope you'd at least hear me out with a Bills take. Its asinine in a sense
So now, this select few are experts on both the Jags and the Bills? And I'm supposed to take this seriously? This is a complete crap show.

Like I've said before, some great dudes/women on here. But of the 20 or so boards I visit when my team plays them this is far and away the most unwelcoming. 
I have a feeling it would have been in years past - but a half season of success seems to have gone to a few of your heads. Thats cool, enjoy it. I wish my team looked like yours do... but act like you've been there before.


Do you think I just magically showed up and started trying to troll you folks?
If the answer is yes - well - this is why things have gotten the way they have bc thats certianly not the case.
Do you not see the goading thats taken place simply because I'm a fan of another team? If not, your a bigger homer than the rest of them!
Bottom line is, I'm not going to sit here and listen to Jags fans tell me whats right and wrong with my football team like they are in tune with the situation when really they are off base and just simply egging me on. 
Having conversations with opposing teams is such a great thing because it is a great educator to how people think and whats going on around the league. 
I think is crazy over on the skins board there are people that actually dont like cousins. The rest of the league seems to, but unless you REALLY like football you arent going to watch every skins game to understand and see what their issues are.  Thats when the hometeam insight is helpful. 

I've been humble, I've admitted when I've been incorrect, I've been insightful, and I've been informative. When poked, I've poked back. I cant help you take offense to me sticking up for myself to another poster. If you've got something that adds to conversation with out being insulting - i invite you to contribute.
But dont call me out and then be a hypocrite less than 2 sentences later.

PS, isnt the entire point of the reputation for essentially 'liking' when someone offers a quality take? I'd say thats not a half bad way to measure what someone has to offer. I've hit quite a few rep buttons for good posts i found interesting or informative. Seems like thats kinda the point....

I'm trying to understand through all your jabs. I'll admit, most of your stuff is just too long to read, and I'm sure you've made some good points along the way. It seems you type these novels just to say you are okay with the Bills starting from the bottom again and building through the draft. No? You like the direction of the front office because winning hurts draft position? If so, that's a lot of hope placed in drafting well, and that's been very sporadic for a while. Going to take a while to build a core, add from the draft and supplement from F.A. You don't find it maddening that this nonsense has been going on for a while and just when you start to get core guys, they are chased away? What about the necessity to groom young players? It feels like the front office is deciding like they're playing Madden. You're okay with possibly another five years or more of rebuilding while begging older, overpaid castoffs to field a team?

Anyways, I'm done posting in here. This thread topic appears to have run its course.

The Bills are genuinely "blowing it up" and rebuilding with no foundation. Going to be painful.

Yes sir, we are on the same page. The excitement (and og course no one can tell the future) is simply this pair have a way about them and a thought process that from what we are privy too - they wont stray from the plan. The last 5+ years have simple been hole plugging with no regard to fit/style/attitude and I guess thats ok, but its been done to essentially avoid a rebuild and be worried about losing their jobs. Personally, I'm excited that for the 1st time since 87 that outside noise wont play a factor and this tandem will be given the opportunity to see through what they started.  No guarantees I'll work, but they have managed to make their predecessors look like bumbling idiots in their short time here. Sort of in the sense we didnt know how bad they were at the time but now that we see how different it can be - it shines a light on how badly 'Club Rex' was run. As you guys speak to how things have changed down there, its kinda the same idea.  Totally different attitude and demeanor.
I do very much like your Madden assessment. I think its neat that now we are starting to get the generation of us who grew up playing Madden and as a result the younger GMs seem to be bucking the trend of no/minimal trades. Personally, I hope it ushers in a era similar to the NHL trade deadline. Maybe some folk dont like that, but thats just my opinion/view

---

not my posts, but just a little perspective on the above comment and give it context MR Achilles

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/...o-realize/

Just because another two-bit, know-nothing billsfan has the same delusional take as you, doesn't make it right.

---

Lets be real here... How do you think these off the wall decisions are going to impact your organization moving forward? I'll tell you...

The good players you refused to pay would have been cheaper to keep than the money you'll have thrown out there to get mediocre players to even consider the Bills. These atrocious personnel decisions leave doubt and eliminate front office trust. Money is all that will be heard. Your organization will muddle around with a free agency swinging door while trying to find a QB to mask the glaring issues. This will lag on for a while as you attempt to hit on draft picks. But you already know this because the Bills have been doing it since 2005.

You should go back and review our history the last five years before sticking with your argument and being quite hypocritical in YOUR condescending tone. The Jags did some things right, but ours certainly isn't the model to follow. In any case, I know it may seem foreign to you, but fans of other teams can be fans of the NFL in general and be knowledgeable of other players and operations. Demanding your opinion is the only one that matters without even considering our perspective, especially what personnel hell we've been through, is quite frankly you being a jerk!

Hypocritical, Armchair, all mighty, entitled, childish, holier than thou, jerk... And I wondered why folks were starting to ignore you! Hard to have a quality discussion as you say, when your posts are overflowing with such descriptives and you demand that your opinions are the only one that matters because we are 1,037.6 miles away. If all else fails, attempt to use post counts and rep points as a quality control indicator! LOL

Just for posterity I live 5 hours from Buffalo and have seen the majority of their games for the past few years.

Excellent, then I imagine you've seen the difference between the 'eye test' and stats. Both you and I can go and cherry pick stats that stand on either side of the fence. As far as this season is concerned I like Taylor displaying more of a willingness to throw the ball and take chances as witnessed in the 2nd half last week. That said, there were still some terrible misses and its just due to gunslinging not being his game. I cant fault him in that - its just not part of his skill set. I CAN fault him for not even trying. I believe that is where the teams and fans frustrations come into play. I'd rather see a 30 yrd pass picked on 3rd and 11 rather than a 3 yrd checkdown to the backup running back. ANYWHO, even though they are going to trot him back out there it seems its more they dont wanna get the kid killed. I'd imagine Taylor gets KC and NE - then back to Peterman time. Then what to do with Taylor? if they cut him before the league year they save 9 Mill and change on the cap. If they trade him, they save 10 mill and change BUT I'd imagine that would come AFTER his 6 mill roster bonus that id imagine a team would want buffalo to pay. Do you pay 6 millon for 1 mill of extra cap room? I cant imagine its important enough to get your owner to pay up. 
So, lets say JAX would like Taylors services. Do they go the route of (maybe just a more proficient version of what is being asked of Bortles) game manager and let the D dictate games? Or do you guys want them to look elsewhere for a QB with a little more explosiveness with his passing ? Difference being with taylor, if your D gives up 14 - You want Taylor to get you 17. With someone else if the D gives up 14, the dynamic of the O changes and you could have 30+. I think you take more chances with the 2nd option - but if you take the 1st itd be very similar to Buffalos approach on O the past 2 years but with a much better D. Stay in it and squeek it out at the end. Makes for some kinda boring football but a win is a win.

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Man... you just dont get it. When things are as bad as they are for the Bills and they have seemingly tried EVERYTHING except admitting what you are doing isnt working with buying shortcuts ETC - its refreshing to see a tandum come in and be given the time to construct a roster the way they want. The hope is they knew what they were doing and were a big part of Carolinas success (they sure werent happy to loose either) and maybe given time they can catch lightning in a bottle and repeat the success achived in CAR. Again, what good is backing in the playoffs at 8-8 and losing in the 1st round? its counterproductive in the big picture. Theyve got 2 1st round picks, 2 2nd, a third (as the other turned into Benjiman) and a myriad of other picks, meanwhile sport one of the oldest rosters that lacks depth. Sure, theres a contingent who just want the playoff moneky off their back. Again, I wanna be GOOD. We've been 8-8, 9-7, 7-9. Been there, done that. Anything worth while is going to take a couple years and part of the process is 'fixing' the previous regimes mistakes. When you understand the goal is sustained success - not just a flash in the pan being slightly above avg for one year. Isnt part of the JAGs success due to a roster thats been infused with quality (generally high) young draft choices and then over times complimenting the roster with quality role players? You guys didnt just wake up one day with a good team. Rebuilding is actually a thing, and you guys actually want to argue with me about it? You had to deal with sub par seasons that enabled you to amass quality young talent. If you take that into account, your above statment seems a little hypocritical. If thats NOT how you guys achived your success, I'll listen as well because i understand being an armchair scount to a team that 1,037.6 miles away might need to be deferred to people in the thick of it. Meanwhile, you guys seem to think that not only is your football team good, but it entitles you to deicde in an all mighty fashion how other teams are run to... and I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk. I just dont understand how some of you feel so entitled to criticizing something you dont understand. If you feel the need to stick it to me, fine. Childish, but I get it. I guess I also get to take into account that in over 2,230 posts you somehow have achieved less rep points than other quality posters on here with MANY less posts, and maybe by engaging its my own fault....quality discussions can happen with out being so insulting - I PROMISE. Lets try. Respond without being condescending, overtly negative, holier than thou or simply just being a jerk.... But come on... lets be real here...

Lets be real here... How do you think these off the wall decisions are going to impact your organization moving forward? I'll tell you...

The good players you refused to pay would have been cheaper to keep than the money you'll have thrown out there to get mediocre players to even consider the Bills. These atrocious personnel decisions leave doubt and eliminate front office trust. Money is all that will be heard. Your organization will muddle around with a free agency swinging door while trying to find a QB to mask the glaring issues. This will lag on for a while as you attempt to hit on draft picks. But you already know this because the Bills have been doing it since 2005.

You should go back and review our history the last five years before sticking with your argument and being quite hypocritical in YOUR condescending tone. The Jags did some things right, but ours certainly isn't the model to follow. In any case, I know it may seem foreign to you, but fans of other teams can be fans of the NFL in general and be knowledgeable of other players and operations. Demanding your opinion is the only one that matters without even considering our perspective, especially what personnel hell we've been through, is quite frankly you being a jerk!

Hypocritical, Armchair, all mighty, entitled, childish, holier than thou, jerk... And I wondered why folks were starting to ignore you! Hard to have a quality discussion as you say, when your posts are overflowing with such descriptives and you demand that your opinions are the only one that matters because we are 1,037.6 miles away. If all else fails, attempt to use post counts and rep points as a quality control indicator! LOL

I did kinda get a kick out of this though, laughing at rep points as being an indicator and then giving me a negative right after....

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Lets be real here... How do you think these off the wall decisions are going to impact your organization moving forward? I'll tell you...

The good players you refused to pay would have been cheaper to keep than the money you'll have thrown out there to get mediocre players to even consider the Bills. These atrocious personnel decisions leave doubt and eliminate front office trust. Money is all that will be heard. Your organization will muddle around with a free agency swinging door while trying to find a QB to mask the glaring issues. This will lag on for a while as you attempt to hit on draft picks. But you already know this because the Bills have been doing it since 2005.

You should go back and review our history the last five years before sticking with your argument and being quite hypocritical in YOUR condescending tone. The Jags did some things right, but ours certainly isn't the model to follow. In any case, I know it may seem foreign to you, but fans of other teams can be fans of the NFL in general and be knowledgeable of other players and operations. Demanding your opinion is the only one that matters without even considering our perspective, especially what personnel hell we've been through, is quite frankly you being a jerk!

Hypocritical, Armchair, all mighty, entitled, childish, holier than thou, jerk... And I wondered why folks were starting to ignore you! Hard to have a quality discussion as you say, when your posts are overflowing with such descriptives and you demand that your opinions are the only one that matters because we are 1,037.6 miles away. If all else fails, attempt to use post counts and rep points as a quality control indicator! LOL

I did kinda get a kick out of this though, laughing at rep points as being an indicator and then giving me a negative right after....

I did it just for you since you appeared to place great weight on it! Honestly, I forget the feature is even there. Unfortunately, it wouldn't allow me to put a reason why I down voted when doing so. Since I'm not a hit and run type of guy...

Take it as you will, but my thoughts are you could make your points and have them appear more valid if you'd eliminate the long drawn out fluff in your posts, especially as they become more and more condensneding. Negative attracts negative. In other words, just get to the point. I know at times you are trying desperately to get people to see your point of view, but it gets muddied. I think you will notice better discussion if you'd atleast consider this advice. Take care.

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I can get down with giving that a whirl.
I think more often than not, I want to be thorough and try and back up points with why I feel that is the way it is. Taylor is actually a good analogy. Just looking at paper, things seem ok. When looking under the hood so to speak, it's not that simple. I guess it's like someone says BUF is stupid for parting ways. If I simply respond he's not, well the point is made, but there's no context to support the take.
There is probably a happy medium, and if you think it makes a difference - I'll try to find it.
Do you have an answer for the question I posed at the end of my last piece? I'm actually quite curious if Jags fans are down with a plan to win that way, or if there's more yearning for a bit more of, shall we say, a 'complete package'?

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I can get down with giving that a whirl.
I think more often than not, I want to be thorough and try and back up points with why I feel that is the way it is. Taylor is actually a good analogy. Just looking at paper, things seem ok. When looking under the hood so to speak, it's not that simple. I guess it's like someone says BUF is stupid for parting ways. If I simply respond he's not, well the point is made, but there's no context to support the take.
There is probably a happy medium, and if you think it makes a difference - I'll try to find it.
Do you have an answer for the question I posed at the end of my last piece? I'm actually quite curious if Jags fans are down with a plan to win that way, or if there's more yearning for a bit more of, shall we say, a 'complete package'?

It’s hard to get a good feel of how the majority fan base feels on this board. There has been an influx of newer folks. But I’m willing to bet the old heads would prefer to ride and die with the QB we have while grooming a draft pick. Now this thought all changes if a higher tier QB becomes available via FA. I wouldn’t consider Taylor in that tier. Cap now comes into play. The new guy better be lightyears better than what you currently have if there is the possibilty of cutting key know commodities. I wouldn’t consider Taylor worth the pain. Cousins or Brees? Maybe. We’ll see what direction this team wants to go when Bortles is due $19mil. 

For Buff, I think Taylor is your Bortles and as a fan Iwould have appreciated seeing what the roster could achieve as is. Hard to do at this point with some key pieces eliminated. I get that they weren’t considered to be “the guy” or a good fit but keep that evaluation for the offseason. Reacting for draft position doesn’t work most times. I’d be willing to bet most top guys are found in mid rounds than first or second. In any case, you don’t want to dig the hole so deep that a turn around takes a decade and you risk alienating the fan base at the same time. Jaguars? Things turned around as the Jags hit on mid rounders and supplemented via FA. They were constantly evaluating and looking to upgrade as opportunity presented itself. This was all done pressing forward and trying to be competitive without an eye towards the draft. We are in a good position with a good mix of vets and young guys. Certainly didn’t work well when we had the youngest roster in the league a few years back. The above I think is the blueprint Buff should look at.

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No. Tyrod was carted off the game today from a knee injury against the Pats, and is receiving doctors evaluation.

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So on the assumption that even going to the playoffs bills brass dont bring back taylor, what so you think about bringing him in on the off season to compete at QB? He's accurate and mobile amd takes care of the ball.and really doesn't get enough credit in buffalo. I think he is similar to Alex smith but would be cheaper if KC moves on.

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https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.php?tid=24305

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Oo thanks mods please close this thread

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I think even with the injury we should. I.might make him cheaper and if we can get him as an upgrade for henne with potential to take over for bortles if he regresses next year then i think the money would be worth it. No ome wants to give him credit but he's legit

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God, I hope not.

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I hope that after the game Sunday nobody would want him here.

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