Create Account



The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show significantly less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.
TC, TE and Pick 29

#1
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018, 07:44 AM by Bullseye.)

It has been way too long since the Jaguars drafted this low in the first round.  Understandably, at this very early stage of the off season it's been more difficult to project what the Jaguars might do.  We haven't even had the scouting combine or free agency yet.  We've had a do over in Indy, where it has been assumed for weeks that Josh McDaniels would take over as head Coach, only for word to come out yesterday that he changed his mind and is staying in New England.  The Indy coaching search starts all over again.

Nevertheless, none of this have stopped the draftniks and armchair GMs among us from attempting mock drafts or at least thinking about what the Jaguars might do at 29.  Based upon team needs, a lot of the speculation surrounds a G, where UTEPs Will Hernandez and Isaiah Wynn from Georgia are among the leading candidates at that position to be the pick at 29.  Another need the Jaguars might address at the bottom of the first is MLB, where Poz is up in age.  

However, perhaps the most tempting positional target for many would be TE, where the Jaguars historically have been lacking at the position.  Although this TE class is not considered at this point to be as talented or deep as last year's class, there are a lot of good players at the position that may help this team and who theoretically might be a fit at 29, including Dallas Goedert, Hayden Hurst or Mark Andrews.  Any one of those guys would give Bortles another much needed target.

But is TE a likely target for the team in the first?

Depending upon how much sway TC has, I'd say no.  An examination of TC's drafting history, going back to his first stint with the Jaguars, shows he has never drafted a TE in the first round.   In fairness, this could be attributable to any number of reasons.  It's entirely possible that at each point in the draft each year, TE didn't make sense.  In 1995, when building the Jaguars, it didn't make any sense for the Jaguars to go TE in the first round.  No TE in that draft was worth a top 2 pick, much less a pick worth more than Boselli, who played a premium position.  Still trying to simply stock the roster, TC went RB at 19 that year.  He may have felt Kyle Brady was worth a first round pick that year.    In fact, when Brady became a free agent in 1999, TC signed him.  But the fact is he didn't draft him-or any TE-with the Jaguars in the first round.  Circumstances possibly dictated TC stay away from TE in the first round with the Giants.  When TC arrived with the Giants in 2004, he already had Jeremy Shockey, who was drafted in the first round in 2002. 

Naturally, being a needs drafter, it would make sense that circumstances would dictate draft strategy for TC.  But perhaps something else factored into his draft decisions.  Perhaps his draft philosophy precludes him from taking a TE in the first round.  Even when he arguably needed a TE, either in Jacksonville or New York, he never spent higher than a 3rd round pick on the position.  Maybe he thinks TE is one of those positions you can adequately stock in the mid rounds, if not address during free agency.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#2

I think TE and QB are in play at #29 for the Jags.  Comes down to who falls QB-wise.

Ideally you'd like to see guard addressed after the first round, but pick 29 is late enough if they think the player is going to really help pave lanes for Fournette and company. A tackle really makes more sense from a value perspective late in the first though  - so an ideal pick here may be a tackle that can unseast Parnell in 2019 but play RG in the meantime at a higher level than Cann. 

The latest "goofing around" mock I did had them going TE - C/G - QB in the first three rounds. 
(Goedert - Ragnow - White)

Regarding Coughlin's role in all of this:
We can only speculate his level of involvement, but I don't see him as one that would just draw a line in the sand and forbid a top flight TE at #29. Your guess is as good as mine there.
Reply

#3

(02-07-2018, 07:59 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: I think TE and QB are in play at #29 for the Jags.  Comes down to who falls QB-wise.

Ideally you'd like to see guard addressed after the first round, but pick 29 is late enough if they think the player is going to really help pave lanes for Fournette and company. A tackle really makes more sense from a value perspective late in the first though  - so an ideal pick here may be a tackle that can unseast Parnell in 2019 but play RG in the meantime at a higher level than Cann. 

The latest "goofing around" mock I did had them going TE - C/G - QB in the first three rounds. 
(Goedert - Ragnow - White)

Now I do not suggest that I would necessarily object to TE at 29.

I firmly believe that a QB needs weapons around him to truly succeed, and a TE is one of those weapons that can help a QB tremendously.  In fact, I would be quite happy with Hurst at 29.

But, based upon what I've seen, I don't think the Jaguars will go TE at 29 if TC is calling the shots on draft day.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





Reply

#4

I can remember in '97 when Jax / TC drafted Renaldo Wynn, there were stories about how Coughlin was very upset that Tony Gonzalez was drafted ahead of them. Now, that's just a story but if anyone else has memory of that I would appreciate hearing it as my own memory is sorely lacking in detail.

If you remember, Kansas City traded up from their #18 spot with the then Houston Oilers to take Gonzalez at 13 and Jax selected at 21. Also, remember that Pete Mitchell was an effective, if not prominent player for TC. 

Now, I am decidedly biased on this topic as I believe that there is no easier way to scheme a mismatch than by the Tight End position, so I think that teams that don't put a highly talented player there are doing themselves a disservice. So I want to believe that the team will address the spot this year. But it is worthy to note that last years draft was reported as being very deep at the position and the team ignored the postion. 

...again.
I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!
Reply

#5

Man, why couldn't Julius have just been the answer?
IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#6

QB. Until we upgrade the position, nothing else will matter.
Reply

#7
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018, 11:45 AM by Bullseye.)

TheO-LineMattersQB. Until we upgrade the position, nothing else will matter.

I could see the team go QB at 29 if there is a guy there and if the team still has insufficient faith in Bortles, then take a TE later.

But I won't go so far as to say nothing else will matter.

With the QB we have, we were 2:37 away from reaching the Super Bowl.

One, maybe two more first downs in the game and we are playing Philly this past Sunday.

(02-07-2018, 09:22 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: Man, why couldn't Julius have just been the answer?

Tell me about it.

(02-07-2018, 08:49 AM)Deacon Wrote: I can remember in '97 when Jax / TC drafted Renaldo Wynn, there were stories about how Coughlin was very upset that Tony Gonzalez was drafted ahead of them. Now, that's just a story but if anyone else has memory of that I would appreciate hearing it as my own memory is sorely lacking in detail.

If you remember, Kansas City traded up from their #18 spot with the then Houston Oilers to take Gonzalez at 13 and Jax selected at 21. Also, remember that Pete Mitchell was an effective, if not prominent player for TC. 

Now, I am decidedly biased on this topic as I believe that there is no easier way to scheme a mismatch than by the Tight End position, so I think that teams that don't put a highly talented player there are doing themselves a disservice. So I want to believe that the team will address the spot this year. But it is worthy to note that last years draft was reported as being very deep at the position and the team ignored the postion. 

...again.

I don't remember TC being high on Gonzalez.  Of course, I wasn't exactly focused on that position, either.

I wanted Trevor Price that draft.

I agree with you that a good TE can cause a lot of problems for a defense, and that it would be in the team's best interest to significantly address/upgrade the position.

I just don't know if it will be with the 29th overall pick.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





Reply

#8

Important to remember that this is a collaborative effort between Caldwell and Coughlin.

I'd speculate that Caldwell still runs the front offices scouting and draft work albeit with input from Tom. That's Caldwell's bread and butter. Come draft time once they're happy with their boards and rankings they all trash out draft strategy together in the war room.

There are some tenants of Caldwells drafts that have remained consistent throughout.
Reply

#9

(02-07-2018, 12:01 PM)JackCity Wrote: Important to remember that this is a collaborative effort between Caldwell and Coughlin.  

I'd speculate that Caldwell still runs the front offices scouting and draft work albeit with input from Tom.  That's Caldwell's bread and butter.  Come draft time once they're happy with their boards and rankings they all trash out draft strategy together in the war room.  

There are some tenants of Caldwells drafts that have remained consistent throughout.

I agree that this is the likely dynamic in the F.O. 

There are clearly differing opinions about that ranging from TC acting as "consultant" on one end of the scale - ranging all the way over to "Authoritarian Football Czar" on the other end. 

Personally I think it's perfectly reasonable to imagine a scenario where Caldwell and Coughlin could agree upon a TE at #29 despite the fact that Coughlin's history might suggest he doesn't value the position that highly. 

Unless they sign a notable FA at the position - I think they'll take a TE before the third and I'd not be surprised a bit if they go there at #29.
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#10

(02-07-2018, 12:20 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(02-07-2018, 12:01 PM)JackCity Wrote: Important to remember that this is a collaborative effort between Caldwell and Coughlin.  

I'd speculate that Caldwell still runs the front offices scouting and draft work albeit with input from Tom.  That's Caldwell's bread and butter.  Come draft time once they're happy with their boards and rankings they all trash out draft strategy together in the war room.  

There are some tenants of Caldwells drafts that have remained consistent throughout.

I agree that this is the likely dynamic in the F.O. 

There are clearly differing opinions about that ranging from TC acting as "consultant" on one end of the scale - ranging all the way over to "Authoritarian Football Czar" on the other end. 

Personally I think it's perfectly reasonable to imagine a scenario where Caldwell and Coughlin could agree upon a TE at #29 despite the fact that Coughlin's history might suggest he doesn't value the position that highly. 

Unless they sign a notable FA at the position - I think they'll take a TE before the third and I'd not be surprised a bit if they go there at #29.

It is a hard dynamic to peg. While Coughlins influence extends everywhere I tend to think draft wise it's more process orientated. i.e let's make sure A , B and C is ticked off on this guy before we are comfortable. Then obviously he's an elite football mind who helps as a sounding board come draft time.  

Yeah agreed. My money would be on Oline Vs TE with them leaning Oline.
Reply

#11

(02-07-2018, 12:01 PM)JackCity Wrote: Important to remember that this is a collaborative effort between Caldwell and Coughlin.  

I'd speculate that Caldwell still runs the front offices scouting and draft work albeit with input from Tom.  That's Caldwell's bread and butter.  Come draft time once they're happy with their boards and rankings they all trash out draft strategy together in the war room.  

There are some tenants of Caldwells drafts that have remained consistent throughout.

To be clear, I indicated as much when I spoke of "depending on how much sway TC has..."
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





Reply

#12
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018, 01:49 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(02-07-2018, 11:42 AM)Bullseye Wrote: TheO-LineMattersQB. Until we upgrade the position, nothing else will matter.

I could see the team go QB at 29 if there is a guy there and if the team still has insufficient faith in Bortles, then take a TE later.

But I won't go so far as to say nothing else will matter.

With the QB we have, we were 2:37 away from reaching the Super Bowl.

One, maybe two more first downs in the game and we are playing Philly this past Sunday.


And when the game was on the line, he failed to move him team down the field. IMO, that is very telling.
Reply

#13

(02-07-2018, 01:48 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-07-2018, 11:42 AM)Bullseye Wrote: TheO-LineMattersQB. Until we upgrade the position, nothing else will matter.

I could see the team go QB at 29 if there is a guy there and if the team still has insufficient faith in Bortles, then take a TE later.

But I won't go so far as to say nothing else will matter.

With the QB we have, we were 2:37 away from reaching the Super Bowl.

One, maybe two more first downs in the game and we are playing Philly this past Sunday.


And when the game was on the line, he failed to move him team down the field. IMO, that is very telling.
I don't know if that all goes solely on his shoulders.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#14

Honestly, I want an elite oline. I would be ok it the first 2 picks are oline. G and G/C
Reply

#15
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018, 09:42 PM by TheO-LineMatters.)

(02-07-2018, 09:27 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Honestly, I want an elite oline.  I would be ok it the first 2 picks are oline.  G and G/C

We can get two really good starting quality OG's in rounds 2 and 3. This is a pretty good OG class, but the OT class is pretty weak, especially LT.
Reply

#16
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018, 10:08 PM by haveaseat.)

Take the best tackle at 29 who can play guard. Play him at guard until Parnell is done. Gonna be tough to pass on Goedert is he's there, though. That guy is everything like Kelce.
Reply

#17
(This post was last modified: 02-07-2018, 10:25 PM by flgatorsandjags.)

(02-07-2018, 10:07 PM)haveaseat Wrote: Take the best tackle at 29 who can play guard. Play him at guard until Parnell is done. Gonna be tough to pass on Goedert is he's there, though. That guy is everything like Kelce.

If we do take a TE in the first, Goedert is my guy.  I just think drafting Hernandez and putting him next to Cam has the potential to be dominant, especially on run blocking.  I think it could be like the Seattle team with Jones and Hutchinnson on the left side and Shawn Alexander in the backfield
Reply

We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!


#18

(02-07-2018, 10:07 PM)haveaseat Wrote: Take the best tackle at 29 who can play guard. Play him at guard until Parnell is done. Gonna be tough to pass on Goedert is he's there, though. That guy is everything like Kelce.

The thing is, this is a very weak draft at OT. I don't know if I'd want to risk using the #29 on an OT, when much better players at other positions will be on the board. The OG position is pretty deep though. I'd rather take a really good, true OG in round 2 or 3 or both and take a project OT late in the draft or after the draft. Replacing Parnell is not something we have to do right away. Finding starting OG's is an immediate need. I'd like to find a reserve swing Tackle somewhere in the draft or as an UDFA, but to be honest I don't see much difference between the ones that will be taken high and a few who may not get drafted at all. We could luck into finding a really good UDFA OT from a small school, that maybe gets overlooked by other teams. Hopefully our scouts will be able to find us a good one. My main focus in the draft would be to find QB competition, starting OG's, a pass catching TE who can block and a starting MLB/SSLB (to play with Smith and Jack.) My hope is that we re-sign Colvin, so we don't have to worry about finding a Nickle as well.
Reply

#19

(02-07-2018, 01:48 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-07-2018, 11:42 AM)Bullseye Wrote: TheO-LineMattersQB. Until we upgrade the position, nothing else will matter.

I could see the team go QB at 29 if there is a guy there and if the team still has insufficient faith in Bortles, then take a TE later.

But I won't go so far as to say nothing else will matter.

With the QB we have, we were 2:37 away from reaching the Super Bowl.

One, maybe two more first downs in the game and we are playing Philly this past Sunday.


And when the game was on the line, he failed to move him team down the field. IMO, that is very telling.

Was Blake Bortles also calling the soft zone defensive plays? If so i'll blame him for the loss. The loss was not on BB, ,he was playing at a good level last season, we only beat the Steelers because he came big when we needed him too..
Reply

#20

I'd be surprised if the first 3 picks, in no particular order, are for a quarterback, tight end and offensive lineman.The toughest decision for Caldwell and Coughlin will be in which order to draft these positions. Certainly, if they address one in free agency ( Cousins, Pugh, Richburg, Eifert, etc.) that will be a big factor. I do believe they will go BAP in the first round with the focus of these 3 positions. It will be much harder to find a potential franchise quarterback after round 1, so they may deviate from their Board and take either Rudolph of Jackson in the 1st even if they have Goedert or Andrews rated higher. I do think they can get very good tight ends and guards in either round 2 or 3. There seems to be solid depth at those positions. Currently, my preference would be:

Round 1- Hernandez or Wynn
Round 2: Gesicki or Goedert
Round 3: Price
Reply




Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

The Jungle is self-supported by showing advertisements via Google Adsense.
Please consider disabling your advertisement-blocking plugin on the Jungle to help support the site and let us grow!
We also show less advertisements to registered users, so create your account to benefit from this!
Questions or concerns about this ad? Take a screenshot and comment in the thread. We do value your feedback.


ABOUT US
The Jungle Forums is the Jaguars' biggest fan message board. Talking about the Jags since 2006, the Jungle was the team-endorsed home of all things Jaguars.

Since 2017, the Jungle is now independent of the team but still run by the same crew. We are here to support and discuss all things Jaguars and all things Duval!