(02-15-2018, 09:35 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: Some interesting dialog in this thread today.

First I'll address our English friend regarding shooting as a "sport" or "hobby".  I have just a bit over 40 acres of property out in the woods that I'm currently developing.  All of my "neighbors" around me have at the minimum 10 acres.  We do like to get together on the weekends and socialize, cook out, etc.  We also set up targets and take turns shooting different firearms to practice our shooting skills.  We also have a few that shoot some skeet.  We are very safe and have strict rules among ourselves regarding the handling of firearms, which direction to not only point them but where and when to shoot.  We always announce to one another when the "range" is hot meaning somebody is about to shoot and when it's safe.  It's a fun thing and a social thing when we get together.  Very rarely do you see anyone take a phone out which leads me to my next point.

I believe it was Caldarac that pointed out something a few pages back that leads me to think that it's a major contributing factor in the rise of these kinds of incidents.  People are so "connected" to technology these days 24/7 via apps like Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Twitter, etc.  Many seem to place so much "value" in "likes" or "followers".  That's one of the major things that is different today vs. "back in the day" when I went to school.  It's not only social media, but also the internet.  There is so much available instantly.  I'm not saying that this is the whole cause, but it is a major contributor to our social problems in today's society.  Add to that the very violent and graphic video games that are available today.

Back when I was a youth, we didn't have such things and didn't have mass shootings.  I was taught gun safety via a voluntary course that my PE instructor taught after school in the school cafeteria (Hunter's Safety) when I was in 5th grade.  In high school I was one of those that had a gun rack and a gun in my truck in the school parking lot.  The thought never crossed my mind to use it there, even if I got into a fist fight with another student.

Another major contributor in this issue is the change in values regarding what is "acceptable" in today's society.  Much of the modern culture shuns religion (this is not a religious discussion or argument) and accepts what once used to be "taboo" as "normal".  Teenage pregnancy, single parent homes, kids in school being disrespectful to faculty, drug use, etc. is now "acceptable" and "normal".  Heck, we have kids today that don't know which bathroom to use.

Back when I was a youth we stood for The Pledge of Allegiance and The National Anthem, and we respected the authority and leadership of our teachers.  We addressed elders as Sir and/or Mam.  We honored our parents and respected them.

The bottom line is, new gun laws are not going to change anything.  What needs to change is society and the values that we hold.

Multiple kids with multiple women, knowingly defrauding people, cheating on your wife and then paying them off, intentionally stirring up hatred and discord  towards multiple American institutions and agencies not to mention individual citizens. Stuff like that gets celebrated, defended, and rewarded with sweet gigs these days. Back when I was a kid that was consider outside the norm. Maybe you all should drink what you are pouring before pointing your hypocritical finger at other people. 

The self righteousness and complete lack of self awareness by the "BUT MUH VALUES" crowd is laughably absurd. 

As for the topic at hand, it's a pointless conversation. If multiple mass murders of our children isn't enough to move the needle on a reasonable compromise, then nothing is. And don't be fooled, a compromise could be had. Nobody is suggesting taking away all guns but plenty of the hard line right wingers seem convinced that's the case. What is actually the case is the line drawn in the sand by the right. That no matter how many children get murdered absolutely nothing can be done. No real talks can be had. Nothing should be done. Period. These tragic events will keep happening because that's the price of freedom in the best country the earth has ever known.

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