You could just as easily end up with Bishop Sankey as Kareem Hunt waiting on RB. Leo was as close as there is to a sure thing

Or Trent Richardson, CJ Spiller, Darren McFadden, Reggie Bush, Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams. There are a lot of top 10 RB misses too.

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You could just as easily end up with Bishop Sankey as Kareem Hunt waiting on RB. Leo was as close as there is to a sure thing

Or Trent Richardson, CJ Spiller, Darren McFadden, Reggie Bush, Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams. There are a lot of top 10 RB misses too.

So what you're saying is that it's difficult to hit on a player regardless of round or position?  Man, real stretch there.

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So what you're saying is that it's difficult to hit on a player regardless of round or position?  Man, real stretch there.

Sure, that's one way you can look at it. He was trying to say that drafting a RB top 5 was the safe play and waiting for one until later in the draft was far riskier, but at RB more than any position (there was an article about it going around last year during the LF debates that I don't have anymore unfortunately) the hit/bust rate for 1st rounders compared to the rest of the draft is less varied.

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If above average running backs are so valuable then why does the NFL value them less than any position bar special teams?

Hmmm... Saquon Barkley is about to go Top 4, Zeke went Top 4, Leo went Top 4, injured Todd Gurley went Top 10. Tell me again how the NFL doesn't value top flight RBs

It's starting to look like Barkley will go #1.

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Hmmm... Saquon Barkley is about to go Top 4, Zeke went Top 4, Leo went Top 4, injured Todd Gurley went Top 10. Tell me again how the NFL doesn't value top flight RBs

Read what I wrote again. Top flight RBs have *value*. 

My question is, if running back is such an important position, then why does the NFL value it less than any other position bar special teams?

Oh... well in that case there's nothing wrong with the 4Net pick since he's a top flight RB.

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'02

Hmmm... Saquon Barkley is about to go Top 4, Zeke went Top 4, Leo went Top 4, injured Todd Gurley went Top 10. Tell me again how the NFL doesn't value top flight RBs

It's starting to look like Barkley will go #1.

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Read what I wrote again. Top flight RBs have *value*. 

My question is, if running back is such an important position, then why does the NFL value it less than any other position bar special teams?

Oh... well in that case there's nothing wrong with the 4Net pick since he's a top flight RB.

1) Top flight RBs have value. Just not as as high as top flights players at every other position. 

2) Fournette isn't a top flight RB yet imo. Let's see another season or two first.

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It's starting to look like Barkley will go #1.

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Oh... well in that case there's nothing wrong with the 4Net pick since he's a top flight RB.

1) Top flight RBs have value. Just not as as high as top flights players at every other position. 

2) Fournette isn't a top flight RB yet imo. Let's see another season or two first.

Do we really need to argue over semantics of “top flight”?

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1) Top flight RBs have value. Just not as as high as top flights players at every other position. 

2) Fournette isn't a top flight RB yet imo. Let's see another season or two first.

Do we really need to argue over semantics of “top flight”?

Top flight = one of the best players in the league at the position no? 

Not sure how else it would be used, particularly in that context.

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Do we really need to argue over semantics of “top flight”?

Top flight = one of the best players in the league at the position no? 

Not sure how else it would be used, particularly in that context.

As a prospect... without an injury some saw Fournette as the best ever. Prospects are evaluated as their time in college. Why is it so hard to grasp that 1. the jags want to run the ball every play and 2. they took the RB at 4 they evaluated as a generational talent to THEM.... it really isn't a debate because it is over... we all agree the NFL value for a RB there is not there, but not every team runs same offense. Get real. There really is no debate, because the Jags already made the pick, and to argue NFL value is ridiculous because its beyond clear to a blind man that the Jags want to run and their value on the run game is higher.

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Top flight = one of the best players in the league at the position no? 

Not sure how else it would be used, particularly in that context.

As a prospect... without an injury some saw Fournette as the best ever. Prospects are evaluated as their time in college. Why is it so hard to grasp that 1. the jags want to run the ball every play and 2. they took the RB at 4 they evaluated as a generational talent to THEM.... it really isn't a debate because it is over... we all agree the NFL value for a RB there is not there, but not every team runs same offense. Get real. There really is no debate, because the Jags already made the pick, and to argue NFL value is ridiculous because its beyond clear to a blind man that the Jags want to run and their value on the run game is higher.

We've already spoke about how I'm well aware of how the Jaguars value the run game and why they drafted him.  

Them having a high value on a player doesn't mean their choices can't be critiqued.

Drafts picks don't happen in a vacuum independent of NFL value.

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Do we really need to argue over semantics of “top flight”?

Top flight = one of the best players in the league at the position no? 

Not sure how else it would be used, particularly in that context.

Well my issue is the ambiguity. One of the how many best? I think it’s easy to make a case for him as currently a top 7 RB in the league

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Top flight = one of the best players in the league at the position no? 

Not sure how else it would be used, particularly in that context.

Well my issue is the ambiguity. One of the how many best? I think it’s easy to make a case for him as currently a top 7 RB in the league

RBs I rate higher than Fournette atm : Gurley , David Johnson, Bell, Zeke , Mark Ingram, Jordan Howard, Freeman,  Lesean McCoy.   

Then out of the 2017 rookies I'd personally take Kareem Hunt and Kamara over him. Wouldn't consider them top flight yet either. 

Out of the 2018 draft I like Barkley, Guice and Chubb more than Fournette as a prospect but have to wait to see them play first.

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Also I love watching Fournette and think he's good.

Its more of an argument about positional value than the merits of LF7 as a player.

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Well my issue is the ambiguity. One of the how many best? I think it’s easy to make a case for him as currently a top 7 RB in the league

RBs I rate higher than Fournette atm : Gurley , David Johnson, Bell, Zeke , Mark Ingram, Jordan Howard, Freeman,  Lesean McCoy.   

Then out of the 2017 rookies I'd personally take Kareem Hunt and Kamara over him. Wouldn't consider them top flight yet either. 

Out of the 2018 draft I like Barkley, Guice and Chubb more than Fournette as a prospect but have to wait to see them play first.

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Also I love watching Fournette and think he's good.

Its more of an argument about positional value than the merits of LF7 as a player.

That's probably my list.  Hunt fell off in a big way. Kamara is about equal to LF imo.  Johnson might not be the same, and last year Gurley went off; before, he was definitely worse than LF.  I think Zeke is about equal to LF, and McCoy is much older.

I think a lot will depend on this year and whether LF will remain healthy.

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RBs I rate higher than Fournette atm : Gurley , David Johnson, Bell, Zeke , Mark Ingram, Jordan Howard, Freeman,  Lesean McCoy.   

Then out of the 2017 rookies I'd personally take Kareem Hunt and Kamara over him. Wouldn't consider them top flight yet either. 

Out of the 2018 draft I like Barkley, Guice and Chubb more than Fournette as a prospect but have to wait to see them play first.

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Also I love watching Fournette and think he's good.

Its more of an argument about positional value than the merits of LF7 as a player.

That's probably my list.  Hunt fell off in a big way. Kamara is about equal to LF imo.  Johnson might not be the same, and last year Gurley went off; before, he was definitely worse than LF.  I think Zeke is about equal to LF, and McCoy is much older.

I think a lot will depend on this year and whether LF will remain healthy.

We’re on the same page

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RBs I rate higher than Fournette atm : Gurley , David Johnson, Bell, Zeke , Mark Ingram, Jordan Howard, Freeman,  Lesean McCoy.   

Then out of the 2017 rookies I'd personally take Kareem Hunt and Kamara over him. Wouldn't consider them top flight yet either. 

Out of the 2018 draft I like Barkley, Guice and Chubb more than Fournette as a prospect but have to wait to see them play first.

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Also I love watching Fournette and think he's good.

Its more of an argument about positional value than the merits of LF7 as a player.

That's probably my list.  Hunt fell off in a big way. Kamara is about equal to LF imo.  Johnson might not be the same, and last year Gurley went off; before, he was definitely worse than LF.  I think Zeke is about equal to LF, and McCoy is much older.

I think a lot will depend on this year and whether LF will remain healthy.

Johnson might not be the same after a wrist injury? Gurley had a great rookie year before regressing under Fisher. Not like he's a one year wonder.  McCoy is old and still consistently one of the best in the league. Should drop off soon.  

Yeah a healthy Fournette would be great but also a surprise. With an upgraded Oline and healthy ankles he could be a top flight back next season. Although the rookies coming in will rip it up over the next few years too.

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Lol yeah Fournette is going to be better next year, and Dede and Cole will have another year of development and improvement so we don't need Arob...but two of the rookie RB who absolutely laid waste to the NFL as rookies are going to take steps back. No raging biases included in that line of thinking...

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Lol yeah Fournette is going to be better next year, and Dede and Cole will have another year of development and improvement so we don't need Arob...but two of the rookie RB who absolutely laid waste to the NFL as rookies are going to take steps back. No raging biases included in that line of thinking...

Please, show me where I said the other two rookies would take a step back?

Hunt fell off as the year went on.  In fact, all three of them did.

I didn't talk about the receivers, at all, although I think A-Rob was not worth resigning if he wouldn't take a reasonable deal.

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That's probably my list.  Hunt fell off in a big way. Kamara is about equal to LF imo.  Johnson might not be the same, and last year Gurley went off; before, he was definitely worse than LF.  I think Zeke is about equal to LF, and McCoy is much older.

I think a lot will depend on this year and whether LF will remain healthy.

Johnson might not be the same after a wrist injury? Gurley had a great rookie year before regressing under Fisher. Not like he's a one year wonder.  McCoy is old and still consistently one of the best in the league. Should drop off soon.  

Yeah a healthy Fournette would be great but also a surprise. With an upgraded Oline and healthy ankles he could be a top flight back next season. Although the rookies coming in will rip it up over the next few years too.

My fault; for some reason I thought Johnson had an ACL.  Gurley had a good, not great, rookie year.  That's the only point where we differ, I think.

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Lol yeah Fournette is going to be better next year, and Dede and Cole will have another year of development and improvement so we don't need Arob...but two of the rookie RB who absolutely laid waste to the NFL as rookies are going to take steps back. No raging biases included in that line of thinking...

Please, show me where I said the other two rookies would take a step back?

Hunt fell off as the year went on.  In fact, all three of them did.

I didn't talk about the receivers, at all, although I think A-Rob was not worth resigning if he wouldn't take a reasonable deal.

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Johnson might not be the same after a wrist injury? Gurley had a great rookie year before regressing under Fisher. Not like he's a one year wonder.  McCoy is old and still consistently one of the best in the league. Should drop off soon.  

Yeah a healthy Fournette would be great but also a surprise. With an upgraded Oline and healthy ankles he could be a top flight back next season. Although the rookies coming in will rip it up over the next few years too.

My fault; for some reason I thought Johnson had an ACL.  Gurley had a good, not great, rookie year.  That's the only point where we differ, I think.

So Fournette didn't have a great rookie year then? Gurley and Fournette had an almost identical rookie year.

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Lol yeah Fournette is going to be better next year, and Dede and Cole will have another year of development and improvement so we don't need Arob...but two of the rookie RB who absolutely laid waste to the NFL as rookies are going to take steps back. No raging biases included in that line of thinking...

Please, show me where I said the other two rookies would take a step back?

Hunt fell off as the year went on.  In fact, all three of them did.

I didn't talk about the receivers, at all, although I think A-Rob was not worth resigning if he wouldn't take a reasonable deal.

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Johnson might not be the same after a wrist injury? Gurley had a great rookie year before regressing under Fisher. Not like he's a one year wonder.  McCoy is old and still consistently one of the best in the league. Should drop off soon.  

Yeah a healthy Fournette would be great but also a surprise. With an upgraded Oline and healthy ankles he could be a top flight back next season. Although the rookies coming in will rip it up over the next few years too.

My fault; for some reason I thought Johnson had an ACL.  Gurley had a good, not great, rookie year.  That's the only point where we differ, I think.

Reid refused to give Hunt touches half way through the year for some unknown reason.

And let me know where Kamara fell off please.

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Please, show me where I said the other two rookies would take a step back?

Hunt fell off as the year went on.  In fact, all three of them did.

I didn't talk about the receivers, at all, although I think A-Rob was not worth resigning if he wouldn't take a reasonable deal.

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My fault; for some reason I thought Johnson had an ACL.  Gurley had a good, not great, rookie year.  That's the only point where we differ, I think.

So Fournette didn't have a great rookie year then? Gurley and Fournette had an almost identical rookie year.

I would agree that Fournette had a good rookie year and not a great one.

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Lot of "Top flight" talk in here. Good spot for this.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1021853875051978752

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Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.