Apologies if this was already posted. I remember last year there was quite a bit of talk since Watson at the combine threw at 49mph and according to many that was a big concern in terms of ball velocity, so I thought about taking a look at this year's QBs at the combine just out of curiousity.

Allen set the record since they started tracking velocity (from 2008 I think):

Here's their performances at the combine.
Among the 4 guys who are usually rated as the top 4 prospects:

Josh Allen - Wyoming - 62 (left), 62 (right)

Sam Darnold didn't throw.


Baker Mayfield - Oklahoma - 59 (left), 60 (right)

Josh Rosen - UCLA - 57 (left), 59 (right)

Then the most notable names from the rest of the group:

[font=Roboto]Mike White - Western Kentucky - 53 (left), 55 (right)[/font]

[font=Roboto]Kyle Lauletta - Richmond - 52 (left), 52 (right)[/font]

[font=Roboto]Luke Falk - Washington State - 52 (left), 52 (right)[/font]

[font=Roboto]Mason Rudolph - Oklahoma State - 52 (left), 52 (right)[/font]

[font=Roboto]Lamar Jackson - Louisville - 49 (left), 49 (right) (same as D. Watson last year)[/font]

[font=Roboto]Here's the full list from this year's combine: [/font]
[font=Roboto]http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-2018-NFL-Combine/10241/dh/[/font]

[font=Roboto]And here's the list that goes back to 2008:[/font]
[font=Roboto]http://blogs.ourlads.com/2017/03/16/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/[/font]

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After Watson threw 49 last year, I'm thinking 49 is adequate. But I still don't want Lamar Jackson.

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As strong of an arm as Allen has, I thought he'd be a bit further ahead of Mayfield and Rosen

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

I'd trust it more if it were velocities used from actual games. With Lamar I thought you could tell he was taking some zip off his throws to try to get better accuracy at the combine, since everyone knows he gets plenty of velocity from his lightning quick wrist flick release but struggles with consistent accuracy.

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Apologies if this was already posted. I remember last year there was quite a bit of talk since Watson at the combine threw at 49mph and according to many that was a big concern in terms of ball velocity, so I thought about taking a look at this year's QBs at the combine just out of curiousity.

Allen set the record since they started tracking velocity (from 2008 I think):

Here's their performances at the combine.
Among the 4 guys who are usually rated as the top 4 prospects:

Josh Allen - Wyoming - 62 (left), 62 (right)

Sam Darnold didn't throw.


Baker Mayfield - Oklahoma - 59 (left), 60 (right)

Josh Rosen - UCLA - 57 (left), 59 (right)

Then the most notable names from the rest of the group:

[font=Roboto]Mike White - Western Kentucky - 53 (left), 55 (right)[/font]

[font=Roboto]Kyle Lauletta - Richmond - 52 (left), 52 (right)[/font]

[font=Roboto]Luke Falk - Washington State - 52 (left), 52 (right)[/font]

[font=Roboto]Mason Rudolph - Oklahoma State - 52 (left), 52 (right)[/font]

[font=Roboto]Lamar Jackson - Louisville - 49 (left), 49 (right) (same as D. Watson last year)[/font]

[font=Roboto]Here's the full list from this year's combine: [/font]
[font=Roboto]http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-2018-NFL-Combine/10241/dh/[/font]

[font=Roboto]And here's the list that goes back to 2008:[/font]
[font=Roboto]http://blogs.ourlads.com/2017/03/16/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/[/font]

It's always good to keep in mind...the goal of throwing the forward pass is to make sure the pass is caught. Velocity is nice, but not a substitute for accuracy and throwing with the right amount of touch necessary to complete the pass.

In Josh Allen's case, his outstanding arm strength means nothing if his throws aren't caught. In his case, velocity is a liability. His accuracy can be fantastic. He puts the ball in places that only some of the greatest QBs in NFL history could and he has an eye for those type of small windows. However, if he doesn't learn to throw with better touch and/or his accuracy goes way out of whack due to throwing something more likely to be caught, he will find himself among the hard throwers who never made it.

This isn't meant to knock the ability of the average NFL WR to catch whatever the QB throws at him. That prerequisite never changes. What does change is our ability to reconcile a drop with a QB throwing with so much velocity that the ball arrives out of time, or the QB is attempting to force a ball into a window so small that he would have been much wiser to not throw in that direction.

Weaker arms do succeed in the NFL. QBs that have average to below average arm strength can become respectable NFL pro quarterbacks. They work around the arm strength requirement by throwing slightly different - anticipating the WR cut or break. QBs with softer arms can do things that high velocity QBs can't typically do well. That is leading their WR the right way so that he completes the pass by catching the football out of harm's way. When a WR is looking into the pocket he usually has his back to the secondary and/or he is not paying attention to what's ahead of him. A poorly thrown pass or a pass thrown too hard to a specific spot can lead to the collision causing extensive injury, particularly bad considering that WRs, even with concussion rules in place, continue to be led into traffic by many less talented QBs. It would be interesting to see the concussion data for WRs and safeties.

One thing is true. A high velocity thrower can always learn to reserve his arm talent while a weaker arm likely will never add enough arm strength to compare to players like Josh Allen, who do have that aspect of elite QB talent.

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I take these results with a grain of salt. It was essentially a training session with no pass rush. In game situations, I think all of the QB's would have higher results.

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The velocity numbers don't mean anything at all. It's a flawed data point. In theory it would be interesting but they aren't actually accurately recording how hard these QBs throw.

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Oh and by the way I agree with you all that these numbers don't mean much at all in the evaluation of a player or even to track how they throw in a game situation. Just threw it out there as an added element especially after last year's discussions on Watson.

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For those who said Kyle Lauletta had a weany arm in the "Kyle Lauletta Interview" thread, clueless. He's the next sleeper QB, a Tom Brady.

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For those who said Kyle Lauletta had a weany arm in the "Kyle Lauletta Interview" thread, clueless.  He's the next sleeper QB, a Tom Brady.

52, like Falk and Rudolph, is really just fast enough for the NFL... you kind of want to be at least there.

So now you look at Lamar and say what? 49?

Well, I saw a whole write-up about how that speed is deceiving because his throws tend to pick up velocity en route. They were saying even though the overall time read 49, he was really throwing it like 60 mph. I know this doesn't make sense because I'm not explaining all his logic well, but that was the gist of it. The bottom line was plenty of film work to show that in Lamar's case this is not something to worry about. For another QB it might be a red flag. 

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'02

As strong of an arm as Allen has, I thought he'd be a bit further ahead of Mayfield and Rosen

He certainly has an incredibly strong arm, but he doesn't have the "it" factor that top QBs simply need. I now have Allen now squarely behind Lamar Jackson and am debating him vs Rudolph for 5th best. I'm leaning toward Rudolph over Allen as well. 

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After Watson threw 49 last year, I'm thinking 49 is adequate.  But I still don't want Lamar Jackson.

DeShaun is another case where his game transcends his arm and he's fine.

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'02

For those who said Kyle Lauletta had a weany arm in the "Kyle Lauletta Interview" thread, clueless.  He's the next sleeper QB, a Tom Brady.

If he can fix some footwork, get taller at his point of release, and generate a little more zip he'll have a chance. I think he'll be a project for a year or two though. 
That clunky drop-back ending in a low release point is the first thing I'd try to fix with him. He's going to have lots of batted-down passes at the next level if it doesn't improve.  It does seem fixable though. 

Whatever his velocity may or may not be, the ball certainly appears to leave his hand with less sauce on it than most of his competition in this draft class to the naked eye.

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As Watson showed last year, this is the most meaningless metric available for QBs. Throws made in underwear and throws made in live gameplay are two different things.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Watch the game tape. Lamar throws lasers.

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If there's zip during game time, I don't worry too much about these speeds.

To put it in perspective, Brees is estimated to be 52 MPH while Favre is estimated to be 63 MPH and Elway around 70 MPH (rumors).

After reading some articles and watching some videos, 50 +/- is perfectly fine for a QB as long as the arc and accuracy is decent. It only becomes a problem if they're inaccurate. Even strong arms like Favre will throw around 50 MPH in many of his throws.

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Looking back at some of the strongest armed QBs, the names Mark Brunell, Kordell Stewart and Jay Cutler come to mind. All decent QBs, but they're not exactly considered elite. Just saying. 

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'02

Looking back at some of the strongest armed QBs, the names Mark Brunell, Kordell Stewart and Jay Cutler come to mind. All decent QBs, but they're not exactly considered elite. Just saying. 

Flacco, Stafford, mallett...

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Arm strength is like cab fare when you're at a bar; or better yet Uber funds when you're at that craft brewery that makes 97 kinds of IPA that all suck since IPAs all suck by definition.

Anyways, It's like cab fare because if you don't have enough, then you can't get home and you need to rely on someone else. If you have too much, then you might get cocky and get yourself into trouble.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

I don't really pay much attention to their arm strength unless it's so bad that it's a problem. It has no correlation to success.

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I was watching some of the 2nd tier QB guys on youtube last night and while Lauletta may not have a rocket, he knows EXACTLY where to put the ball and makes sure it's where its supposed to be. Plenty of qualifiers with this of course (level of competition only youtube highlights, etc) but the back shoulder throws were great, the curl routes were thrown perfectly to the outside and low, the dig routes were thrown right on the cut, I was really impressed. Those kind of things are effective at any level. I came away seeing a lot of Alex Smith in him between the arm strength, understanding of ball placement, and his underrated mobility. If we can go OL/TE in the 1st two rounds and grab Lauletta rd. 3 I'm all in on that. I think the question is if he'll last that long though

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