https://reason.com/blog/2018/06/27/break...nus-ruling

Workers are no longer forced to pay dues to unions that do not share their interests.

Long overdue.  Very much long overdue.

It's a shame unions now will have to show value to workers instead of shaking them down like the mob for "protection."

After decades of stagnation, unions can now evolve into something useful to current times.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Big Victory for the working stiffs of the USA

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You know trouble is right around the corner when your best friend tells you to hold his beer!!

Very much long overdue.  This ruling is clearly a win for workers.

The unions don't like it because they lose money and power.

The democrats don't like it because they lose money and power.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Good now they should abolish public unions as whole.

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As I understand most states already prevent unions from collecting the kind of payments that were discussed here.
If you can benefit from a union's negotiations without contributing money to them, why would anybody join?
I dont understand it but most states already have right to work laws so we see the answer. There are still unions, just fewer of them.
One quirk you might find interesting. Our federal labor law on unions dates to prior to WWII, while Germany's is younger than WWII, as the old system there had to be de-Nazified. In Germany, an employer has to make sure that each of their employees belongs to a union, even organizing a union themselves if one doesn't exist already. They have to set aside company time, as part of this union activity, where workers can discuss work issues without managment. These meetings have turned out to sometimes produce good ideas that help everyone in the company do better. German companies like BMW first started moving some work over here, they set up these unions and these meetings at first - but our 80 year old federal labor law, as interpreted by SCOTUS, bans this. BMW was stopped. In the US a labor union can only be set up and run by workers.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I think you eloquently outlined the uselessness of unions who don't provide the value to attract members.

The victim here was never unions. It was workers forced against their will to contribute, just like the mobs who demanded "protection." Or else...

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

I think you eloquently outlined the uselessness of unions who don't provide the value to attract members.

The victim here was never unions.  It was workers forced against their will to contribute, just like the mobs who demanded "protection."  Or else...

You have reached the crux of the matter.  Unions have failed to evolve while they demand everyone bow to them and "evolve" to their desires.  

Wage and Hour addresses roughly half of what unions used to represent.  OSHA covers another huge portion of employee concerns.  What is left at this point?

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

I think you eloquently outlined the uselessness of unions who don't provide the value to attract members.

The victim here was never unions.  It was workers forced against their will to contribute, just like the mobs who demanded "protection."  Or else...

You have reached the crux of the matter.  Unions have failed to evolve while they demand everyone bow to them and "evolve" to their desires.  

Wage and Hour addresses roughly half of what unions used to represent.  OSHA covers another huge portion of employee concerns.  What is left at this point?

Right, you can say that, but don't turn around and refuse to let the minimum wage rise with inflation.  The minimum salary an employer has to offer to escape overtime requirements also needs to raise with inflation.  When it doesn't, that takes the 40 hour workweek away from more and more workers. If you recognize that laws and regulations now do things we used to need unions for, then let's make sure they stay up to date.
Unfortunately the party thats undermining the unions is also undermining labor law.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

You have reached the crux of the matter.  Unions have failed to evolve while they demand everyone bow to them and "evolve" to their desires.  

Wage and Hour addresses roughly half of what unions used to represent.  OSHA covers another huge portion of employee concerns.  What is left at this point?

Right, you can say that, but don't turn around and refuse to let the minimum wage rise with inflation.  The minimum salary an employer has to offer to escape overtime requirements also needs to raise with inflation.  When it doesn't, that takes the 40 hour workweek away from more and more workers. If you recognize that laws and regulations now do things we used to need unions for, then let's make sure they stay up to date.
Unfortunately the party thats undermining the unions is also undermining labor law.

You are all over the map and I am a bit confused as to your point.  So to be fair let me clarify my question.  What are unions specifically doing to address the changing needs of the work force?  You have stated some issues but I don't see them being addressed by the entity you entrust to handle them.  From what I see the modern union doing is much like politicians.  Protecting their own self interest in the name of "looking out for the little guy".

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

The Minimum Wage is $0.00.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

The giveaway is the "minimum wage" fallacy.

Minimum wage = entry wage. Those who stay there are those who never improve themselves and their value to employers.

You have to hand it to him... he hits all the talking points straight from the party line. Right out of the union handbook.

Compliance is mandatory. You cannot and will not be allowed to disagree with the cult.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Right, you can say that, but don't turn around and refuse to let the minimum wage rise with inflation.  The minimum salary an employer has to offer to escape overtime requirements also needs to raise with inflation.  When it doesn't, that takes the 40 hour workweek away from more and more workers. If you recognize that laws and regulations now do things we used to need unions for, then let's make sure they stay up to date.
Unfortunately the party thats undermining the unions is also undermining labor law.

You are all over the map and I am a bit confused as to your point.  So to be fair let me clarify my question.  What are unions specifically doing to address the changing needs of the work force?  You have stated some issues but I don't see them being addressed by the entity you entrust to handle them.  From what I see the modern union doing is much like politicians.  Protecting their own self interest in the name of "looking out for the little guy".

Today, unions might not be doing much that is useful.  They are keeping wages high where they exist but that might not be healthy for the macroeconomy.
I'm not arguing for unions per se.
I'm saying, let's recognize that a lot of the good stuff unions fought for is now enacted for all of us under the Fair Labor Standards Act.
Let's recognize that this act refers to wage levels that become less relevant through the course of time due to inflation.

So, if what unions did was good, but now federal law does the same thing, let's support the people who want to update those federal laws and regulations as inflation takes place.

The other consistent position is to say that what unions did was bad, and the fair Labor standards act is also bad, and everyone should simply negotiate their wages and working conditions independently.

Saying that unions were good, and then they were supplanted by the fair Labor standards act, but then turning around and undermining the fair Labor standards act at every turn, and replacing it with nothing, is hypocritical.

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The giveaway is the "minimum wage" fallacy.

Minimum wage = entry wage.  Those who stay there are those who never improve themselves and their value to employers.

You have to hand it to him... he hits all the talking points straight from the party line.  Right out of the union handbook.

Compliance is mandatory.  You cannot and will not be allowed to disagree with the cult.

You're reading into my comments things that I never said.  I actually don't disagree with you.  There are a lot of ways that a person can have bad luck and get stuck in a minimum wage job as an adult, but most people who desire to improve themselves can get to a higher wage level eventually.
That said, you never know how long it might take, and letting the minimum wage ruse with inflation keeps some people off of welfare.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

The Minimum Wage is $0.00.

False.  Federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour.
Salaried employees are exempt from that requirement if their salary exceeds $455 per week.
So from the employers perspective they must pay minimum wage or minimum salary and neither is $0.
The only way to pay a laborer less than that is to categorize them not as an employee but as a contractor performing X task for Y dollars, regardless of how long X takes.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

You are all over the map and I am a bit confused as to your point.  So to be fair let me clarify my question.  What are unions specifically doing to address the changing needs of the work force?  You have stated some issues but I don't see them being addressed by the entity you entrust to handle them.  From what I see the modern union doing is much like politicians.  Protecting their own self interest in the name of "looking out for the little guy".

Today, unions might not be doing much that is useful.  They are keeping wages high where they exist but that might not be healthy for the macroeconomy.
I'm not arguing for unions per se.
I'm saying, let's recognize that a lot of the good stuff unions fought for is now enacted for all of us under the Fair Labor Standards Act.
Let's recognize that this act refers to wage levels that become less relevant through the course of time due to inflation.

So, if what unions did was good, but now federal law does the same thing, let's support the people who want to update those federal laws and regulations as inflation takes place.

The other consistent position is to say that what unions did was bad, and the fair Labor standards act is also bad, and everyone should simply negotiate their wages and working conditions independently.

Saying that unions were good, and then they were supplanted by the fair Labor standards act, but then turning around and undermining the fair Labor standards act at every turn, and replacing it with nothing, is hypocritical.

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The giveaway is the "minimum wage" fallacy.

Minimum wage = entry wage.  Those who stay there are those who never improve themselves and their value to employers.

You have to hand it to him... he hits all the talking points straight from the party line.  Right out of the union handbook.

Compliance is mandatory.  You cannot and will not be allowed to disagree with the cult.

You're reading into my comments things that I never said.  I actually don't disagree with you.  There are a lot of ways that a person can have bad luck and get stuck in a minimum wage job as an adult, but most people who desire to improve themselves can get to a higher wage level eventually.
That said, you never know how long it might take, and letting the minimum wage ruse with inflation keeps some people off of welfare.

Thanks for clarifying.  I can't argue with your assessment.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

The Minimum Wage is $0.00.

False.  Federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour.
Salaried employees are exempt from that requirement if their salary exceeds $455 per week.
So from the employers perspective they must pay minimum wage or minimum salary and neither is $0.
The only way to pay a laborer less than that is to categorize them not as an employee but as a contractor performing X task for Y dollars, regardless of how long X takes.

Lol, you really don't get it. All those words you bloviate around here and you don't understand the simple economic fact that you have to have a job to have a wage. When labor costs too much you know what happens? You eliminate that cost altogether by laying it off.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I'm not an Union advocate even though I am in a Union, but for the workers in the Unions (mostly) they are better off than being a company worker...My company is split, the production employees are Union and the admin maintenance and a few other department employees are company...Here is a breakdown of the difference between the Union employees and company employees benefits and wages...Union employees get a nominal raise every year, company wages are frozen(they can afford to pay more but they dont have to so they dont) Union pays 10% of healthcare premium, company pays 50%...Union vision and dental are combined and pay $5 per week, company $10 a week each...Union dues are $28 a month, company none...Union has it's own credit union, company traditional bank...Union 401k matches up to 7% company matches 3%...Union has their own company picnic thing at an amusement park on a non work day yearly Union provides the meal and $50 in free tickets for rides plus company party (at company HQ during lunch hour)...Company only gets a half hour and free meal on a work day...If required to work OT on a holiday Union workers get holiday pay plus double time, company gets holiday pay and regular hours...Union workers can only work 3 Sundays a year at time and a half (even if you didnt get 40 hours) anything more than than 3 sundays must be paid at double time, Company time and a half no matter how many Sundays we work...Union If a the following monday is a holiday and we work on Sunday, Sunday must be paid at double time, Company time and a half...there are more benefits but thats enough to illustrate...Now who would you rather work for, Union or Company?

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False.  Federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour.
Salaried employees are exempt from that requirement if their salary exceeds $455 per week.
So from the employers perspective they must pay minimum wage or minimum salary and neither is $0.
The only way to pay a laborer less than that is to categorize them not as an employee but as a contractor performing X task for Y dollars, regardless of how long X takes.

Lol, you really don't get it. All those words you bloviate around here and you don't understand the simple economic fact that you have to have a job to have a wage. When labor costs too much you know what happens? You eliminate that cost altogether by laying it off.

You're clearly the most clever person in this conversation.  Enjoy a glass of kool-aid on me.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Lol, you really don't get it. All those words you bloviate around here and you don't understand the simple economic fact that you have to have a job to have a wage. When labor costs too much you know what happens? You eliminate that cost altogether by laying it off.

You're clearly the most clever person in this conversation.  Enjoy a glass of kool-aid on me.

It's just so much fun to watch you talk and talk and talk and always end up in such convoluted conclusions. 

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato